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Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
I've seen a few posts about this and I'm in the same boat. Suffering alive but too afraid to CTB. In my case it's fear of pain and failure. The pain problem can probably be lessened with medications or whatnot but the fear of failure is difficult to manage. I've been thinking about it a lot.
Obviously many many people ctb and with the shittiest resources and yet here we are, many of us with money to spend on the method of choice but still we're afraid. And here is why I think this is. When we imagine our CTB there is no way for us to know the outcome. And because it's a mystery it kind of frazzles our brain. Let me try to explain a bit better.
Our brain is a pattern recognition and problem solving machine and it does not do well with uncertainty. It doesn't do well with not knowing so it often fills in the gaps for us and most of the time it does a convincing enough job. For example none of us know what will happen tomorrow but based on previous experience we can form a basic idea. E.g you'll go to work, you'll have dinner, you'll watch tv etc. But when we're faced with novel situations that we have no personal reference for it goes into overdrive trying to come up with possible scenarios.
Imagine you're walking down the street and someone stops you and points to a hole in the wall just enough for your hand to fit through and it's all black inside, you can't tell what's behind the wall. You have no idea what's on the other side. The person tells you to put your hand in the hole. Of course the vast majority of people would hesitate. Your brain is probably coming up with horrible scenarios like someone will injure your hand or do something nasty to it. Of course there could be absolutely nothing on the otherside or maybe someone will hand you a wad of cash but you don't know. You've never seen this building or wall or person before.
When our brain doesn't know for sure what the outcome will be it tends to think of the worst scenarios. In psychology this is called the negativity bias and it's hypothesised that this is an evolutionary trait that helped is survive.
When you think about CTB you don't know what the outcome will be because you've read about failures. So now when you think about CTB even if your method is sound and well planned your brain gravitates towards the negative outcome. Any time there's uncertainty most people will tend to err on the side of caution.
Sometimes we talk about how the hell do some people just go and hang or shoot themselves? I think that these people who just go and do it probably haven't been researching for months and years, they just 'know' that hanging or guns are lethal from the way media portrays suicide so they don't have near as much uncertainty as someone who's researched and read the horror stories. Of course some of these people do mess up and get it wrong and are worse off but I'm talking about the actual determination to go and do it in the first place. They do it so easily because in their mind they're sure this will kill them because hey, in the movies it always works right? In this sense ignorance is bliss.
I believe many of us are paralysed by negativity bias. So many times I've read of people who have meticulously planned but still think they will fail. I'm one of those people. We give our brain and impossible puzzle to solve and it starts to spin on its head trying to solve it. It does not know what will happen for sure once you pull the trigger, or step off the chair, or drink that mixture so it tries to come up with every possible scenario no matter how unlikely it is. And the scarier the scenario the more it puts us off CTB because emotions are stronger than reason. This is why scaring children and even adults with hell is so effective. We might know as adults that the whole notion is ridiculous but the fear stays. We are primal creatures still in some ways.
If you've planned well but are still afraid to fail, this is normal. But if we do want to take that final step and get it over with we're somehow going to need to overcome that emotional negativity bias.

Oh I wanted to add an example...the other day I made a post about the plastic bag and sleeping pills method (not with gas). And someone said 'that will surely fail don't do it' even though I described how you could restrain yourself to prevent taking the bag off. So I asked how in this specific situation would it fail if your hands and feet are constrained? And I wasn't able to get an answer. Just 'don't do it you'll probably fail'. I feel like this becomes a kneejerk reaction often here. Some methods are going to fail like OD but sometimes I see people will describe a method or their modifications of a method and they just get told it will fail without actually being told how it might fail because we're not thinking about it practically anymore, just with our fears.
 
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A

Alan James

Arcanist
Apr 11, 2019
408
Many people do it impulsively, they decided and did it without hesitation, doubt, some processes in the body give them the determination to do it at that moment. As on command/impulse.
 
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Intelligent_Panic99

Intelligent_Panic99

Student
Jan 4, 2022
114
This makes a lot of sense to me. Planning ctb is kind of like trying to solve a puzzle. I know I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is the right way. I've made all of these rules for myself because of potential bad outcomes and every rule (e.g. nothing in a public place because someone could get hurt trying to save me) limits potential ctb options. So like you, I think I put off, at least in part, because of fear of failure and not being able to find the perfect way to mitigate these risks.
 
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greencondo

greencondo

Member
Sep 25, 2019
87
I plan and have fear with good reason, I've failed 2x in the past and it made things worse for me. That's obviously not everyone's experience.
Yes many succeeded to ctb but a lot fail. I also imagine some end up ctb a lot more painfully and/or traumatizing for others then they had considered it would be.
 
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T

Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
This makes a lot of sense to me. Planning ctb is kind of like trying to solve a puzzle. I know I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is the right way. I've made all of these rules for myself because of potential bad outcomes and every rule (e.g. nothing in a public place because someone could get hurt trying to save me) limits potential ctb options. So like you, I think I put off, at least in part, because of fear of failure and not being able to find the perfect way to mitigate these risks.
And that's the thing...we'll never be able to mitigate every single risk because there's millions of them and 99.99999% of them are infitntismally small but our brain blows them out of proportion. Like idk, say you decided you were going to drown in the middle of the ocean but there could be a chance that just at the spot you started sinking there was a scuba diver right there in the middle of nowhere and he scooped you up and brought you to the surface. Like it's almost impossible but not completely impossible so because we can't rule anything out 100% everything becomes a huge possibility to our emotional thinking.
We will only be able to mitigate the largest sources of failure which is the place and time we do it and the technical aspects of our method by having good equipment. Trying to solve every other possibility is useless.
I plan and have fear with good reason, I've failed 2x in the past and it made things worse for me. That's obviously not everyone's experience.
Yes many succeeded to ctb but a lot fail.
Yes but why did you fail?
 
greencondo

greencondo

Member
Sep 25, 2019
87
Yes but why did you fail?
does it even matter? (I'm not talking about it online)
You said you were afraid, I was validating that feeling and it should be taken serious.

I'm not telling you what to do or what not to do.
 
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T

Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
does it even matter? (I'm not talking about it online)
You said you were afraid, I was validating that feeling and it should be taken serious.

I'm not telling you what to do.
I was just going to point out that if you failed because it was impulsive and not planned well then it's a different matter to knowing what you're doing and having mitigated all the risks you can. If you thoroughly planned and still failed that's something I would seriously like to know.
Often we get stories here of people who had no idea what they were doing and failed and this gets conflated with people who are very careful about how they're going to do it and so people who really want to ctb and have planned and thought about it a lot get paralysed by fear based on experiences of people who did a really slip shod job (not saying this was you but trying to point out how this is unhelpful).
Of course anything can fail. Freak accidents happen even in the best circumstances. I'm just trying to say that as long as people keep confusing tiny remote possibilities with actual large probabilities they will never take that final step and perhaps that's for the best. But some people really want to ctb and they'll need to overcome this "analysis paralysis".
 
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greencondo

greencondo

Member
Sep 25, 2019
87
I was just going to point out that if you failed because it was impulsive and not planned well then it's a different matter to knowing what you're doing and having mitigated all the risks you can. If you thoroughly planned and still failed that's something I would seriously like to know.
Often we get stories here of people who had no idea what they were doing and failed and this gets conflated with people who are very careful about how they're going to do it and so people who really want to ctb and have planned and thought about it a lot get paralysed by fear based on experiences of people who did a really slip shod job (not saying this was you but trying to point out how this is unhelpful).
Of course anything can fail. Freak accidents happen even in the best circumstances. I'm just trying to say that as long as people keep confusing tiny remote possibilities with actual large probabilities they will never take that final step and perhaps that's for the best. But some people really want to ctb and they'll need to overcome this "analysis paralysis".
planned to every detail or not, the consequences are the same if you fail, which is where many have their fear from..I would guess.

we have no way of knowing all their variables if they thought of everything so I in good conscious can not tell anyone what would be the right amount of planning for them or what would qualify as minor worry for them verses a large one. since they and their possibly family are the ones would who would have deal with the consequences. A lot of the time people don't even realize what they haven't considered.

Again, not telling you what not to do or how to feel..
I was sayings it normal and valid to feel that way. (not to mention that SI is very real)
That's it and I hope that helped someone.



I hope you find whats best for you.
 
T

Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
planned to every detail or not, the consequences are the same if you fail, which is where many have their fear from..I would guess.

we have no way of knowing all their variables if they thought of everything so I in good conscious can not tell anyone what would be the right amount of planning for them or what would qualify as minor worry for them verses a large one. since they and their possibly family are the ones would who would have deal with the consequences. A lot of the time people don't even realize what they haven't considered.

Again, not telling you what not to do.
I was sayings it normal and valid to feel that way. (not to mention that SI is very real)
That's it and I hope that helped someone.



I hope you find whats best for you.
Of course SI and fear are very valid but that's my point. You say there might be things people haven't even considered. Of course there are. There will always be a million tiny things that no one could have predicted. So a person either has to take the chance with the best planning and information they have or be stuck in inaction. If someone can't go through with it because the tiny possibilities are overwhelming that's fine and valid but some people want to move past that so I was just trying to explain how we might try to start to move past the anxiety of failure.

What I'm saying is that CTB is always a game of chance. But often people treat it like rolling dice. Like it's completely random whether you'll succeed or not no matter how well planned you are. But that's not the case. Good planning highly highly increases chance of success. It's not at all random. You're still taking a risk but the risk is smaller than people imagine if you've done everything in your power to prepare well
 
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LADY007

LADY007

Specialist
Feb 25, 2020
373
I've seen a few posts about this and I'm in the same boat. Suffering alive but too afraid to CTB. In my case it's fear of pain and failure. The pain problem can probably be lessened with medications or whatnot but the fear of failure is difficult to manage. I've been thinking about it a lot.
Obviously many many people ctb and with the shittiest resources and yet here we are, many of us with money to spend on the method of choice but still we're afraid. And here is why I think this is. When we imagine our CTB there is no way for us to know the outcome. And because it's a mystery it kind of frazzles our brain. Let me try to explain a bit better.
Our brain is a pattern recognition and problem solving machine and it does not do well with uncertainty. It doesn't do well with not knowing so it often fills in the gaps for us and most of the time it does a convincing enough job. For example none of us know what will happen tomorrow but based on previous experience we can form a basic idea. E.g you'll go to work, you'll have dinner, you'll watch tv etc. But when we're faced with novel situations that we have no personal reference for it goes into overdrive trying to come up with possible scenarios.
Imagine you're walking down the street and someone stops you and points to a hole in the wall just enough for your hand to fit through and it's all black inside, you can't tell what's behind the wall. You have no idea what's on the other side. The person tells you to put your hand in the hole. Of course the vast majority of people would hesitate. Your brain is probably coming up with horrible scenarios like someone will injure your hand or do something nasty to it. Of course there could be absolutely nothing on the otherside or maybe someone will hand you a wad of cash but you don't know. You've never seen this building or wall or person before.
When our brain doesn't know for sure what the outcome will be it tends to think of the worst scenarios. In psychology this is called the negativity bias and it's hypothesised that this is an evolutionary trait that helped is survive.
When you think about CTB you don't know what the outcome will be because you've read about failures. So now when you think about CTB even if your method is sound and well planned your brain gravitates towards the negative outcome. Any time there's uncertainty most people will tend to err on the side of caution.
Sometimes we talk about how the hell do some people just go and hang or shoot themselves? I think that these people who just go and do it probably haven't been researching for months and years, they just 'know' that hanging or guns are lethal from the way media portrays suicide so they don't have near as much uncertainty as someone who's researched and read the horror stories. Of course some of these people do mess up and get it wrong and are worse off but I'm talking about the actual determination to go and do it in the first place. They do it so easily because in their mind they're sure this will kill them because hey, in the movies it always works right? In this sense ignorance is bliss.
I believe many of us are paralysed by negativity bias. So many times I've read of people who have meticulously planned but still think they will fail. I'm one of those people. We give our brain and impossible puzzle to solve and it starts to spin on its head trying to solve it. It does not know what will happen for sure once you pull the trigger, or step off the chair, or drink that mixture so it tries to come up with every possible scenario no matter how unlikely it is. And the scarier the scenario the more it puts us off CTB because emotions are stronger than reason. This is why scaring children and even adults with hell is so effective. We might know as adults that the whole notion is ridiculous but the fear stays. We are primal creatures still in some ways.
If you've planned well but are still afraid to fail, this is normal. But if we do want to take that final step and get it over with we're somehow going to need to overcome that emotional negativity bias.

Oh I wanted to add an example...the other day I made a post about the plastic bag and sleeping pills method (not with gas). And someone said 'that will surely fail don't do it' even though I described how you could restrain yourself to prevent taking the bag off. So I asked how in this specific situation would it fail if your hands and feet are constrained? And I wasn't able to get an answer. Just 'don't do it you'll probably fail'. I feel like this becomes a kneejerk reaction often here. Some methods are going to fail like OD but sometimes I see people will describe a method or their modifications of a method and they just get told it will fail without actually being told how it might fail because we're not thinking about it practically anymore, just with our fears.
You are far from alone regarding fear. I researched nitro hood, I consulted chemical engineers on the internet, I asked what would happen if all the gas leaked out in my basement without me knowing ( square footage of basement is so large that the gas wouldn't harm anyone) All my inquiries helped a great deal to understand what i was doing and how well.
 
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Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
You are far from alone regarding fear. I researched nitro hood, I consulted chemical engineers on the internet, I asked what would happen if all the gas leaked out in my basement without me knowing ( square footage of basement is so large that the gas wouldn't harm anyone) All my inquiries helped a great deal to understand what i was doing and how well.
Yes, people are so afraid of failure as if it's more or less a sure thing when this is not the case when someone does their research and plans well.
 
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greencondo

greencondo

Member
Sep 25, 2019
87
What I'm saying is that CTB is always a game of chance. But often people treat it like rolling dice. Like it's completely random whether you'll succeed or not no matter how well planned you are. But that's not the case. Good planning highly highly increases chance of success. It's not at all random. You're still taking a risk but the risk is smaller than people imagine if you've done everything in your power to prepare well
I guess I have not seen the roll the dice/it's all completely random attitude but I'm not reading every day. I've mostly seen people encourage thinking things through, planning, etc. so I can't relate to that specific observation.

You cant really control how others feel about it or how they feel about their own fear, for that matter. There is also going to be a lot of opinions whenever you ask anything, they wont all be what you are looking for and not everyone has the same motives.

Also, some of these people might not be ready and its their SI or subconscious making these extra "what ifs"

You can only make your own opinion and choice.
 
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L

LookieLou

Member
Dec 21, 2021
41
I was just going to point out that if you failed because it was impulsive and not planned well then it's a different matter to knowing what you're doing and having mitigated all the risks you can. If you thoroughly planned and still failed that's something I would seriously like to know.
Often we get stories here of people who had no idea what they were doing and failed and this gets conflated with people who are very careful about how they're going to do it and so people who really want to ctb and have planned and thought about it a lot get paralysed by fear based on experiences of people who did a really slip shod job (not saying this was you but trying to point out how this is unhelpful).
Of course anything can fail. Freak accidents happen even in the best circumstances. I'm just trying to say that as long as people keep confusing tiny remote possibilities with actual large probabilities they will never take that final step and perhaps that's for the best. But some people really want to ctb and they'll need to overcome this "analysis paralysis".
I planned for 6 months. I tried and failed at an airport hotel. Apparently I fell loudly and hotel staff broke in. The shin I fell on and my foot have been numb ever since.

I read an article by a guy who said he drove to An isolated area and found out that later because he'd thrown the car keys into the nearby woods he had walked to a nearby store. He succeeded on another attempt.

Shit happens. Plan as well as you can.
 
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Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
I planned for 6 months. I tried and failed at an airport hotel. Apparently I fell loudly and hotel staff broke in. The shin I fell on and my foot have been numb ever since.

I read an article by a guy who said he drove to An isolated area and found out that later because he'd thrown the car keys into the nearby woods he had walked to a nearby store. He succeeded on another attempt.

Shit happens. Plan as well as you can.
Yep there's always unpredictable things that could happen. I'm sorry you went through all that :( at the end of the day we can say ok that's enough planning I'm going to do it now or just not do it. I would really like to so I'm trying to think of ways to minimise failure anxiety.
I guess I have not seen the roll the dice/it's all completely random attitude but I'm not reading every day. I've mostly seen people encourage thinking things through, planning, etc. so I can't relate to that specific observation.

You cant really control how others feel about it or how they feel about their own fear, for that matter. There is also going to be a lot of opinions whenever you ask anything, they wont all be what you are looking for and not everyone has the same motives.

Also, some of these people might not be ready and its their SI or subconscious making these extra "what ifs"

You can only make your own opinion and choice.
I'm not trying to control how others feel. I'm afraid of failing too and have been thinking of ways I can minimise this fear so wrote this thread just of my own thoughts in case someone feels the same way as me and I'm just trying to put things in perspective for myself and maybe it will help someone else too. I'm not telling people what to think, just putting my own thoughts out there on why failure anxiety exists and how we might start to overcome it.
 
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greencondo

greencondo

Member
Sep 25, 2019
87
Yep there's always unpredictable things that could happen. I'm sorry you went through all that :( at the end of the day we can say ok that's enough planning I'm going to do it now or just not do it. I would really like to so I'm trying to think of ways to minimise failure anxiety.
For me, I think I will always have it but the alternative is a bigger fear (facing adult nursing home, ruining my partners life, etc) So for me, I need the bigger fear motivation to make the rest seem less of a risk in comparison. Sucks tho, I wish I had a way to just be a peace about...anything, ha.
 
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miserableforever

miserableforever

Arcanist
Oct 23, 2020
488
Many people do it impulsively, they decided and did it without hesitation, doubt, some processes in the body give them the determination to do it at that moment. As on command/impulse.
I wonder if we can consciously make us act on impulse?
 
LADY007

LADY007

Specialist
Feb 25, 2020
373
For me, I think I will always have it but the alternative is a bigger fear (facing adult nursing home, ruining my partners life, etc) So for me, I need the bigger fear motivation to make the rest seem less of a risk in comparison. Sucks tho, I wish I had a way to just be a peace about...anything, ha.
I plan on going to a nursing home or two when I feel ready just to remind myself of what I will face if I chicken 🐔 out. I know that will help me succeed. If you have no one but yourself.. You will be a prisoner of that place and REALLY BAD THINGS AND DO CAN HAPPEN IN THERE.. Not to mention if you are "lucky enough" to get in one. There may be a waiting list, etc. Research all this ....will lessen your problem with decisions on what to do.
 
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Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
I plan on going to a nursing home or two when I feel ready just to remind myself of what I will face if I chicken 🐔 out. I know that will help me succeed. If you have no one but yourself.. You will be a prisoner of that place and REALLY BAD THINGS AND DO CAN HAPPEN IN THERE..
I am many years away from retirement age but my health is not good and I'm afraid of getting worse and want to have a sure way out. I mean I do, hanging, drowning, but I'm too afraid of pain and failure. Thinking prescription drugs and alcohol for the fear of pain but fear of failure is strong for me.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
43,275
This was an interesting post. The fear of failure is what holds me back. It is my worst nightmare being trapped in a worse quality of life. I wish that euthanasia was legal, so then I would not have to deal with this fear. I deserve a reliable and peaceful way to exit. I do believe that being completely desperate may make people overcome their fear of failure.
 
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T

Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
This was an interesting post. The fear of failure is what holds me back. It is my worst nightmare being trapped in a worse quality of life. I wish that euthanasia was legal, so then I would not have to deal with this fear. I deserve a reliable and peaceful way to exit. I do believe that being completely desperate may make people overcome their fear of failure.
CTB is an unsolvable puzzle. We don't know what will happen after we pass out to our body or to our consciousness so our brain goes mad trying to come up with scenarios, most of them negative and not based on rationality or evidence.
 
T

Theanswer

Experienced
Jun 26, 2022
279
For me, I think I will always have it but the alternative is a bigger fear (facing adult nursing home, ruining my partners life, etc) So for me, I need the bigger fear motivation to make the rest seem less of a risk in comparison. Sucks tho, I wish I had a way to just be a peace about...anything, ha.
Exactly. I plan on going to visit an adult nursing home next week. Not to convince myself to ctb but to affirm. When I get caught in failure fear, it's partly because I am hanging onto what I will be missing. I won't be missing a damn thing. Thirty years has proved that. FOR ME, that pretty much shuts the SI and hesitation down.
 
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