• Hey Guest,

    If you would still like to donate, you still can. We have more than enough funds to cover operating expenses for quite a while, so don't worry about donating if you aren't able. If you want to donate something other than what is listed, you can contact RainAndSadness.

    Bitcoin Address (BTC): 39deg9i6Zp1GdrwyKkqZU6rAbsEspvLBJt

    Ethereum (ETH): 0xd799aF8E2e5cEd14cdb344e6D6A9f18011B79BE9

    Monero (XMR): 49tuJbzxwVPUhhDjzz6H222Kh8baKe6rDEsXgE617DVSDD8UKNaXvKNU8dEVRTAFH9Av8gKkn4jDzVGF25snJgNfUfKKNC8

reveriewong

reveriewong

Member
Feb 22, 2019
61
It appears that the victimhood mentality is pervasive, and that some are enabling people to continue to behave as if they are victims... day in and day out. We praise, idolize, and condone the mentality that you are a victim, and that I am a victim, and that we are all victims, and that we should carry out our lives as if we were definitely victims.

This is extremely detrimental to our well-being.

To what extent does an enabling attitude contribute to suicidal ideation? To what extent does possessing a victimhood mentality, and seeking others who also see themselves as victim, help to perpetrate suicidal ideation?

It contributes to learned helplessness. It undermines the value of human life. It overlooks the human capacity to be resilient, to make progress and move forward, to seek redemption, to modify their thinking process so that they can function and move forward, to internalize any evidence that runs contrary to their beliefs, and to internalize that we do have inherent worth and that our decisions do matter.

Why do we do it--this neverending victimization? What happened to striving for personal responsibility, to being honest with ourselves and recognizing our place in how our current circumstances have unfolded, and to work towards redeeming ourselves and towards building a better life.... rather than seeking to kill ourselves?

What happened to having gratitude for what we have, rather than overvaluing what we don't have? Why do we take so much for granted?

These are some thoughts that have been on my mind lately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Final Escape, Weeping Garbage Can, Boonks and 1 other person
Angst Filled Fuck Up

Angst Filled Fuck Up

Visionary
Sep 9, 2018
2,835
Well, who exactly is perpetuating this neverending victimization as you call it? That's a statement that needs some fleshing out. Don't get me wrong, I think we should all strive to do the best we can within the parameters that govern our lives, but I also understand there is so much we aren't to blame for.

I actually think we aren't looked after nearly enough. It's become trendy to despise those who are suffering or incapable of looking after themselves, but that mindset only really benefits the corporate fat cats and governments, who want us off our asses and earning them money while skimping on basic care if at all possible. It's okay to demand more - and we absolutely should.

I'm not sure I understand this whole "be grateful" thing, either. Grateful for what? Our world is tough and we're basically engineered to fail unless we're lucky and have a lot of support. I'm fine with appreciating some of the smaller things, but why not call a spade a spade?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Walilamdzi, Final Escape, Going Home and 18 others
reveriewong

reveriewong

Member
Feb 22, 2019
61
Safe spaces are a form of victimization. It's telling people that the world out there is scary, and that they are victims and should be in a specific place so that they can be space. Then, when they feel comfortable enough there, they don't get confident and move out into the real world. They want others to conform to their sense of victimhood.

Perhaps it's not neverending, and that it only feels that way. I will retract that statement.

There's a lot of victimization on these forums, for instance, and there's a lot of enabling too, which causes a cycle of "I am a victim, you're a victim, we're all victims." It happens regularly on the media as well. Because it feels like an endless cycle, that's how I arrived at my "neverending victimization" statement.

Life is hard, there's no denying that. But more likely that not, if we're in an extended dark spot in our life, and we live in America, it's more likely than not that we're in that continually dark place because we made some choices we shouldn't have. There are some things that we cannot help or change (for example, where we're born), but there's much that we can do, and we need to recognize our capacity to create change in our lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weeping Garbage Can, Boonks, littlelady774 and 1 other person
Angst Filled Fuck Up

Angst Filled Fuck Up

Visionary
Sep 9, 2018
2,835
Many of us don't see a viable way out, even if there is in fact one. We're human, we can't see all ends or even work out how to make the best of life with things like mental illness clouding our judgement. This site is a symptom of our collective hopelessness and by extension, failings within the system. If those failings are brought to light, then I think that's a good thing. But I wouldn't confuse this site with "safe space" mentality. Many of us have been beaten down to where we can't see a way forward due to circumstances beyond our control.

I just know I've been plagued by mental illness all my life, and also come down with a chronic, undiagnosed illness that massively impacts my quality of life. I've been fobbed off by those whose duty it is to help people every step of the way. I think when you suffer this much and become a burden to the degree I am with little to no opportunity to better yourself or improve your situation, then it's only logical to weigh up your options. Others will of course have a different set of circumstances, but I still think the overriding feeling is that of hopelessness, rather than learned helplessness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Walilamdzi, ForestLove, Going Home and 9 others
Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
To what extent does possessing a victimhood mentality, and seeking others who also see themselves as victim,
You should try reading some of the posts on here were people describe in detail abuse that they have suffered from childhood onwards. I'd be interested to hear your feedback on this one!

Baby blanket

Edit : I've not read any of your other posts on here yet, just wondering if you can relate to the suffering that many have endured on here, such as sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse etc ...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ForestLove, Going Home, Weeping Garbage Can and 8 others
Redt2go

Redt2go

flower child
Jan 5, 2019
1,643
You should try reading some of the posts on here were people describe in detail abuse that they have suffered from childhood onwards. I'd be interested to hear your feedback on this one!

Baby blanket

Edit : I've not read any of your other posts on here yet, just wondering if you can relate to the suffering that many have endured on here, such as sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse etc ...
Shit :(... That baby blanket story so much evil in her life
 
  • Like
Reactions: C14, Going Home, Weeping Garbage Can and 5 others
Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
Shit :(... That baby blanket story so much evil in her life
It's harrowing to read, I don't doubt for one second that she was the victim.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Going Home, Weeping Garbage Can, Wolfjob_dayjob and 2 others
I

interim

Member
Feb 25, 2019
38
From my experience, most, if not all people with victimhood mentality don't actually want to die. Since if you die, you can't live as a victim any more... Also, most of them, are not actually victims, they want to perceive themselves as such.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weeping Garbage Can and Grey-zone
Misanthrope

Misanthrope

Mage
Oct 23, 2018
557
I am not fully sure what you mean specifically by victimhood mentality. It is a bit of nebulous term. So I will be a bit generalised myself.

If you mean the psychology definition of Victim Identity then you have answered your own question by mentioning learned helplessness. It is such a cruel trap because it robs you of the very thing you need to beat it and will need outside assistance to challenge it. If you are suffering from learned helplessness you have likely suffered as a true victim at some point in your life. If it is long-standing abuse your entire personality will be shaped by it and your brain will even cause you to crave that abuse even when you are out of it. It is called the trauma bond and will likely have you making subconsciously destructive choices that are driven by a need to return to the familiar. Similar happens when suicide for a long time is used as a comforting coping mechanism but for whatever reason recedes. But that newness breeds discomfort and can have a person sabotage it. Not because they are happy being depressed and in pain but because it is a new and alien feeling that creates a new 'worse' discomfort. It is odd how our brains work.

Abusers often rob people of their power and any sense of self-autonomy as well. If you grow up in a home full of it I am not sure how a person is expected to spontaneously manifest greater self-determination or even learn that skill when they are put down constantly and it is reinforced how weak and stupid they are. Abuse quite literally rewires the brain.

Do some exploit the abuses of the past for various gains? Sure, but I don't think it is commonplace as you are implying. The nature of memory makes simply 'letting go' of these things extremely difficult. Some will turn it into a personal crusade so their pain had some purpose or they can spare others from it.

If you are condemning people for victimhood mentality in pursuit of attention. That is hardly surprising if you have been invalidated much of your life seeking validation becomes a strong driving force as does finding genuine empathy and sympathy that you never had before. Probably why this site is quite addictive for some as they can be their broken authentic self without condemnation. It is a sad symptom not necessarily a failure of character or lack of personal responsibility.

There are also genuine benefits to self-pity, it serves an important function. If you have been robbed of yourself, self-pity is where you can find a mote of yourself and become the centre of your world and process things. It can be self-nurturing in its own weird way. The danger is never being able to step beyond that.

Learned helplessness generally needs an outside force to help you move beyond it and rewire your brain. Encourage you with minor successes that starts to make success as a concept actually seem possible and not just what feels like a self-delusion. There are some so damaged by their pasts they are paralyzed from even making the first step towards even risking help. Or distrust others so much they can't let themselves be vulnerable. This site likely does not help much on that front as you mostly hear the horror stories and not the successes. But those horror stories are not imaginary either.

Imagine a wall with a hole in it. You keep putting your hand in it told by others the most amazing feeling thing is on the other side. But for you, there is just stabbing pain like running your hand over a scalpel. This happens again and again. It becomes logical at that point to simply stop and either assume you are cursed from experiencing this wonderful thing or others are lying. That is at the heart of why people 'give up.'

There is a twisted irony here though, plenty of people do take personal responsibility by pursuing external forces of help or even asking for it from those closest to them. The responses can be incredibly negative and reinforce all the prior feelings of being invalidated. The ambivalently suicidal will draw attention to it. But if they are shunned for it why would they reach out any more? Why stab yourself again? Rational or irrational it comes back to pain.

The problem is mental health provision is its own dismissive sometimes abusive and infantilising force. Plenty of people whose pain is not taken seriously resulting in a sad neglected end. Disappointment in the things that are meant to help but fall hugely short is another kind of pain and it is natural to want to avoid pain. I had one client told how much they were costing the NHS. You can imagine what that did for their already ruined self-esteem.

You mention gratefulness. But it is hard to be grateful for anything when you are in pain. Pain is very distracting and all-consuming it makes us vocal in our distress, the source or location where you happen to live is irrelevant to that. Psyache is well understood as a core driver of suicide. It is not resilience that is needed, it is better provision to take away the pain or stop it from happening in the first place. I think on some level this safe space stuff is an attempt to take away the pain and crusade. I personally view it as a flawed approach. But I won't go into that.

Being tortured is not just limited to North Korea either. It comes from inside the mind, the sicknesses that riddle the body, or toxic environments. Sometimes all three at once! The question then becomes how much of that is fixable? How long is that endurable? What if you get told there is no fix? No self-truth at that point is going to save you from reality.

People don't live in a vacuum either, personal responsibility only goes so far if external forces are also screwing you over. Some can't even get a therapist or escape the toxic environment they are currently in for various reasons. There are certainly people that exist that have exhausted their options as well or found out they are destined by medical science to continue suffering with little respite.

I have an American friend with schizophrenia, for whatever reason, she no longer qualifies for the antipsychotic with proven efficacy so is suffering through new ineffective medications and is close to giving up. Stabbing her hand yet again… That's just one external force beyond control. There are plenty of others we are at the mercy of. You can only control what you can feasibly control.

Until decent accessible provision is available that does not reduce everyone down to a bag of chemicals in pursuit of band-aid quick fix. That takes people on as a whole and moves towards nurturing them into their own strength even if it is a long road. Then this horror show is just going to continue and create more casualties. The victims of people and societies neglect will continue to scream and get the luxury of being insulted for it. It already happens with clients with borderline personality told they are attention seeking until they are dead… People being told they are snowflakes for drawing attention to various issues and just wanting nicer things. Rape being the fault of the victim because of the clothing they wear. The homeless only existing because of 'poor lifestyle choices.' Nothing to do with broken economic systems rife with exploitation… It goes on and on.

If anything we have a culture of blame that abdicated its own responsibility in favour of individualizing problems and creating scapegoats not scrutinising the systems that may well have created victims in the first place. Or how those victims are being failed across services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PrincessInWhite, Skathon, Temporarilyabsurd and 16 others
Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
I am not fully sure what you mean specifically by victimhood mentality. It is a bit of nebulous term. So I will be a bit generalised myself.

If you mean the psychology definition of Victim Identity then you have answered your own question by mentioning learned helplessness. It is such a cruel trap because it robs you of the very thing you need to beat it and will need outside assistance to challenge it. If you are suffering from learned helplessness you have likely suffered as a true victim at some point in your life. If it is long-standing abuse your entire personality will be shaped by it and your brain will even cause you to crave that abuse even when you are out of it. It is called the trauma bond and will likely have you making subconsciously destructive choices that are driven by a need to return to the familiar. Similar happens when suicide for a long time is used as a comforting coping mechanism but for whatever reason recedes. But that newness breeds discomfort and can have a person sabotage it. Not because they are happy being depressed and in pain but because it is a new and alien feeling that creates a new 'worse' discomfort. It is odd how our brains work.

Abusers often rob people of their power and any sense of self-autonomy as well. If you grow up in a home full of it I am not sure how a person is expected to spontaneously manifest greater self-determination or even learn that skill when they are put down constantly and it is reinforced how weak and stupid they are. Abuse quite literally rewires the brain.

Do some exploit the abuses of the past for various gains? Sure, but I don't think it is commonplace as you are implying. The nature of memory makes simply 'letting go' of these things extremely difficult. Some will turn it into a personal crusade so their pain had some purpose or they can spare others from it.

If you are condemning people for victimhood mentality in pursuit of attention. That is hardly surprising if you have been invalidated much of your life seeking validation becomes a strong driving force as does finding genuine empathy and sympathy that you never had before. Probably why this site is quite addictive for some as they can be their broken authentic self without condemnation. It is a sad symptom not necessarily a failure of character or lack of personal responsibility.

There are also genuine benefits to self-pity, it serves an important function. If you have been robbed of yourself, self-pity is where you can find a mote of yourself and become the centre of your world and process things. It can be self-nurturing in its own weird way. The danger is never being able to step beyond that.

Learned helplessness generally needs an outside force to help you move beyond it and rewire your brain. Encourage you with minor successes that starts to make success as a concept actually seem possible and not just what feels like a self-delusion. There are some so damaged by their pasts they are paralyzed from even making the first step towards even risking help. Or distrust others so much they can't let themselves be vulnerable. This site likely does not help much on that front as you mostly hear the horror stories and not the successes. But those horror stories are not imaginary either.

Imagine a wall with a hole in it. You keep putting your hand in it told by others the most amazing feeling thing is on the other side. But for you, there is just stabbing pain like running your hand over a scalpel. This happens again and again. It becomes logical at that point to simply stop and either assume you are cursed from experiencing this wonderful thing or others are lying. That is at the heart of why people 'give up.'

There is a twisted irony here though, plenty of people do take personal responsibility by pursuing external forces of help or even asking for it from those closest to them. The responses can be incredibly negative and reinforce all the prior feelings of being invalidated. The ambivalently suicidal will draw attention to it. But if they are shunned for it why would they reach out any more? Why stab yourself again? Rational or irrational it comes back to pain.

The problem is mental health provision is its own dismissive sometimes abusive and infantilising force. Plenty of people whose pain is not taken seriously resulting in a sad neglected end. Disappointment in the things that are meant to help but fall hugely short is another kind of pain and it is natural to want to avoid pain. I had one client told how much they were costing the NHS. You can imagine what that did for their already ruined self-esteem.

You mention gratefulness. But it is hard to be grateful for anything when you are in pain. Pain is very distracting and all-consuming it makes us vocal in our distress, the source or location where you happen to live is irrelevant to that. Psyache is well understood as a core driver of suicide. It is not resilience that is needed, it is better provision to take away the pain or stop it from happening in the first place. I think on some level this safe space stuff is an attempt to take away the pain and crusade. I personally view it as a flawed approach. But I won't go into that.

Being tortured is not just limited to North Korea either. It comes from inside the mind, the sicknesses that riddle the body, or toxic environments. Sometimes all three at once! The question then becomes how much of that is fixable? How long is that endurable? What if you get told there is no fix? No self-truth at that point is going to save you from reality.

People don't live in a vacuum either, personal responsibility only goes so far if external forces are also screwing you over. Some can't even get a therapist or escape the toxic environment they are currently in for various reasons. There are certainly people that exist that have exhausted their options as well or found out they are destined by medical science to continue suffering with little respite.

I have an American friend with schizophrenia, for whatever reason, she no longer qualifies for the antipsychotic with proven efficacy so is suffering through new ineffective medications and is close to giving up. Stabbing her hand yet again… That's just one external force beyond control. There are plenty of others we are at the mercy of. You can only control what you can feasibly control.

Until decent accessible provision is available that does not reduce everyone down to a bag of chemicals in pursuit of band-aid quick fix. That takes people on as a whole and moves towards nurturing them into their own strength even if it is a long road. Then this horror show is just going to continue and create more casualties. The victims of people and societies neglect will continue to scream and get the luxury of being insulted for it. It already happens with clients with borderline personality told they are attention seeking until they are dead… People being told they are snowflakes for drawing attention to various issues and just wanting nicer things. Rape being the fault of the victim because of the clothing they wear. The homeless only existing because of 'poor lifestyle choices.' Nothing to do with broken economic systems rife with exploitation… It goes on and on.

If anything we have a culture of blame that abdicated its own responsibility in favour of individualizing problems and creating scapegoats not scrutinising the systems that may well have created victims in the first place. Or how those victims are being failed across services.
Five golden stars best rating 260nw 657712999

Great post @Misanthrope
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wolfjob_dayjob, Final Escape, Misanthrope and 3 others
Grey-zone

Grey-zone

Student
Feb 2, 2019
147
I am not fully sure what you mean specifically by victimhood mentality. It is a bit of nebulous term. So I will be a bit generalised myself.

Learned helplessness generally needs an outside force to help you move beyond it and rewire your brain. Encourage you with minor successes that starts to make success as a concept actually seem possible and not just what feels like a self-delusion. There are some so damaged by their pasts they are paralyzed from even making the first step towards even risking help. Or distrust others so much they can't let themselves be vulnerable. This site likely does not help much on that front as you mostly hear the horror stories and not the successes. But those horror stories are not imaginary either.

...

You mention gratefulness. But it is hard to be grateful for anything when you are in pain. Pain is very distracting and all-consuming it makes us vocal in our distress, the source or location where you happen to live is irrelevant to that. Psyache is well understood as a core driver of suicide. It is not resilience that is needed, it is better provision to take away the pain or stop it from happening in the first place. I think on some level this safe space stuff is an attempt to take away the pain and crusade. I personally view it as a flawed approach. But I won't go into that.

Wonderful explanation, Misanthrope. You nailed it on the head (no pun intended, in this context).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wolfjob_dayjob, Final Escape, Misanthrope and 2 others
Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
I notice that the OP is not responding to any of the responses on this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Going Home and Weeping Garbage Can
Sundayafternoon

Sundayafternoon

Cosmic panic
May 18, 2018
394
Well, who exactly is perpetuating this neverending victimization as you call it? That's a statement that needs some fleshing out. Don't get me wrong, I think we should all strive to do the best we can within the parameters that govern our lives, but I also understand there is so much we aren't to blame for.

I actually think we aren't looked after nearly enough. It's become trendy to despise those who are suffering or incapable of looking after themselves, but that mindset only really benefits the corporate fat cats and governments, who want us off our asses and earning them money while skimping on basic care if at all possible. It's okay to demand more - and we absolutely should.

I'm not sure I understand this whole "be grateful" thing, either. Grateful for what? Our world is tough and we're basically engineered to fail unless we're lucky and have a lot of support. I'm fine with appreciating some of the smaller things, but why not call a spade a spade?

Thank you thank you thank you. Grateful? Could shit be worse? Of course. I see this simply as being lucky in my unluckyness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wolfjob_dayjob, Final Escape, Weeping Garbage Can and 1 other person
FTL.Wanderer

FTL.Wanderer

Enlightened
May 31, 2018
1,783
It appears that the victimhood mentality is pervasive

The "victimhood" perspective seems to me to be a worldview. Whether situations exist that create valid, authentic victims or whether, if/when such situations exist, choosing "not to play the victim" is measurably effective or not are empirical questions people can find objective evidence for if they're interested. Many of us talk about the professional therapy community arguing people ought to feel and reason about life according to that discipline's official evaluative perspectives, even though there are many who don't feel and reason so (judging from the mushrooming depression and suicide rates). Official judgements on "victimhood" seem to me just as disjoint from people's actual life experiences and personal evaluations. I think people should be free to reason about their own lives as they want (absent direct harm to others). No one asked to be born. So I don't acknowledge any obligations to live and reason according to others' evaluative criteria, again excepting directly harming others.

I do respect others' imperatives to feel about "victimhood" differently. Cheers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NumbItAll and Weeping Garbage Can
O

OfficerK

Experienced
May 6, 2018
255
The "personal responsibility is the key to meaning" and "adversity builds character" arguments are in my opinion a poor attempt at deflecting what is more often than not reasonable calls for societal change. If this is really true, the logical thing to do would be to increase the amount of problems in the lives of you and your closest ones in order so that you too can create your own narrative of overcoming hardships. Are they willing to send their kids to the worst schools in their country and refuse to save up money to pay for their tuition? If their answer is no, how can they fault others for wanting the same thing for themselves and their children?

I'd argue that the current economical and political systems in America achieve the exact opposite of giving weight to choices. Impoverished people don't really have a choice to not give up on their studies in order to work when they unexpectedly become ill and they have no family funds to cover their expenses. That is if they are even able to get into a decent college course, as they surely had no say in making the decision to be born into a community whose schools are underfunded and where the easiest and most realistic path to wealth is crime. It is wrong to put all the blame on people's poor decision-making when the alternatives available to them differ so drastically from those of others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ScarsAndStitches, Exile, Misanthrope and 3 others
waived

waived

I am a sunrise
Jan 5, 2019
974
reveriewong said:
Life is hard, there's no denying that. But more likely that not, if we're in an extended dark spot in our life, and we live in America, it's more likely than not that we're in that continually dark place because we made some choices we shouldn't have. There are some things that we cannot help or change (for example, where we're born), but there's much that we can do, and we need to recognize our capacity to create change in our lives.

There are some things that we cannot help or change like the human constructed world we are born into which forbids people creating meaningful change in their lives or meaningful lives outside the internalizations of the ruling order. America is like other empires with enough of a stable State for most to rationalize things like roles, consequence, sacrifice, to conceal its starving population from itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wolfjob_dayjob
F

Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
I am not fully sure what you mean specifically by victimhood mentality. It is a bit of nebulous term. So I will be a bit generalised myself.

If you mean the psychology definition of Victim Identity then you have answered your own question by mentioning learned helplessness. It is such a cruel trap because it robs you of the very thing you need to beat it and will need outside assistance to challenge it. If you are suffering from learned helplessness you have likely suffered as a true victim at some point in your life. If it is long-standing abuse your entire personality will be shaped by it and your brain will even cause you to crave that abuse even when you are out of it. It is called the trauma bond and will likely have you making subconsciously destructive choices that are driven by a need to return to the familiar. Similar happens when suicide for a long time is used as a comforting coping mechanism but for whatever reason recedes. But that newness breeds discomfort and can have a person sabotage it. Not because they are happy being depressed and in pain but because it is a new and alien feeling that creates a new 'worse' discomfort. It is odd how our brains work.

Abusers often rob people of their power and any sense of self-autonomy as well. If you grow up in a home full of it I am not sure how a person is expected to spontaneously manifest greater self-determination or even learn that skill when they are put down constantly and it is reinforced how weak and stupid they are. Abuse quite literally rewires the brain.

Do some exploit the abuses of the past for various gains? Sure, but I don't think it is commonplace as you are implying. The nature of memory makes simply 'letting go' of these things extremely difficult. Some will turn it into a personal crusade so their pain had some purpose or they can spare others from it.

If you are condemning people for victimhood mentality in pursuit of attention. That is hardly surprising if you have been invalidated much of your life seeking validation becomes a strong driving force as does finding genuine empathy and sympathy that you never had before. Probably why this site is quite addictive for some as they can be their broken authentic self without condemnation. It is a sad symptom not necessarily a failure of character or lack of personal responsibility.

There are also genuine benefits to self-pity, it serves an important function. If you have been robbed of yourself, self-pity is where you can find a mote of yourself and become the centre of your world and process things. It can be self-nurturing in its own weird way. The danger is never being able to step beyond that.

Learned helplessness generally needs an outside force to help you move beyond it and rewire your brain. Encourage you with minor successes that starts to make success as a concept actually seem possible and not just what feels like a self-delusion. There are some so damaged by their pasts they are paralyzed from even making the first step towards even risking help. Or distrust others so much they can't let themselves be vulnerable. This site likely does not help much on that front as you mostly hear the horror stories and not the successes. But those horror stories are not imaginary either.

Imagine a wall with a hole in it. You keep putting your hand in it told by others the most amazing feeling thing is on the other side. But for you, there is just stabbing pain like running your hand over a scalpel. This happens again and again. It becomes logical at that point to simply stop and either assume you are cursed from experiencing this wonderful thing or others are lying. That is at the heart of why people 'give up.'

There is a twisted irony here though, plenty of people do take personal responsibility by pursuing external forces of help or even asking for it from those closest to them. The responses can be incredibly negative and reinforce all the prior feelings of being invalidated. The ambivalently suicidal will draw attention to it. But if they are shunned for it why would they reach out any more? Why stab yourself again? Rational or irrational it comes back to pain.

The problem is mental health provision is its own dismissive sometimes abusive and infantilising force. Plenty of people whose pain is not taken seriously resulting in a sad neglected end. Disappointment in the things that are meant to help but fall hugely short is another kind of pain and it is natural to want to avoid pain. I had one client told how much they were costing the NHS. You can imagine what that did for their already ruined self-esteem.

You mention gratefulness. But it is hard to be grateful for anything when you are in pain. Pain is very distracting and all-consuming it makes us vocal in our distress, the source or location where you happen to live is irrelevant to that. Psyache is well understood as a core driver of suicide. It is not resilience that is needed, it is better provision to take away the pain or stop it from happening in the first place. I think on some level this safe space stuff is an attempt to take away the pain and crusade. I personally view it as a flawed approach. But I won't go into that.

Being tortured is not just limited to North Korea either. It comes from inside the mind, the sicknesses that riddle the body, or toxic environments. Sometimes all three at once! The question then becomes how much of that is fixable? How long is that endurable? What if you get told there is no fix? No self-truth at that point is going to save you from reality.

People don't live in a vacuum either, personal responsibility only goes so far if external forces are also screwing you over. Some can't even get a therapist or escape the toxic environment they are currently in for various reasons. There are certainly people that exist that have exhausted their options as well or found out they are destined by medical science to continue suffering with little respite.

I have an American friend with schizophrenia, for whatever reason, she no longer qualifies for the antipsychotic with proven efficacy so is suffering through new ineffective medications and is close to giving up. Stabbing her hand yet again… That's just one external force beyond control. There are plenty of others we are at the mercy of. You can only control what you can feasibly control.

Until decent accessible provision is available that does not reduce everyone down to a bag of chemicals in pursuit of band-aid quick fix. That takes people on as a whole and moves towards nurturing them into their own strength even if it is a long road. Then this horror show is just going to continue and create more casualties. The victims of people and societies neglect will continue to scream and get the luxury of being insulted for it. It already happens with clients with borderline personality told they are attention seeking until they are dead… People being told they are snowflakes for drawing attention to various issues and just wanting nicer things. Rape being the fault of the victim because of the clothing they wear. The homeless only existing because of 'poor lifestyle choices.' Nothing to do with broken economic systems rife with exploitation… It goes on and on.

If anything we have a culture of blame that abdicated its own responsibility in favour of individualizing problems and creating scapegoats not scrutinising the systems that may well have created victims in the first place. Or how those victims are being failed across services.
Wow! I loved that post, thank u for putting the effort in :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnnythefox

Similar threads

derpyderpins
Replies
8
Views
285
Recovery
derpyderpins
derpyderpins
jbear824
Replies
5
Views
249
Suicide Discussion
landslide2
landslide2
sugarb
Replies
15
Views
629
Suicide Discussion
LOVELYDARKDEEP
LOVELYDARKDEEP