Story Unfulfilled dreams, fantasies, goals, and desires... that alone should be enough to CTB (or any reason)

[TAW122]

This is a story that I recalled when I was in college (more than one and a half decades ago), in my early 20's, and it would certainly be a very basic and logical reason to CTB (tbh, any reason is valid, and not trying to gatekeep) just in and of itself (the natural reality of the universe and sentience - which of course, the universe couldn't care at all). So I was in undergrad and there was a philosophy or ethics professor, who I'll refer to as 'G' in this story, and I've built a small rapport with him. During college, I was a perfectionist and wanted to experience having a perfect GPA, even for a semester, but of course, that never did happen, came close a few semesters, then in my sophomore year, one semester I decided it wasn't worth it and did not do so, and just kind of let academics slide down a bit, though not as much to the point where I would be on academic probation or anywhere near the risk of being kicked out. So anyways, after building some rapport with G, he once said something about how he wanted to run a sub 5 minute one mile lap, but that was just his dream and he couldn't attain it. So the lesson itself was about how "there are things we want, but for whatever reason we cannot necessary attain it and that was just part of the human experience (life)". I did not really see it the same way as G did, but respectfully acknowledged his point of view. Basically his perspective is that there will always be people who have certain wants and desires but simply cannot (for any reason or cause, either by them or by (external) circumstance) attain them and that it was just normal and what not. He mentioned he felt miserable and sad, disappointed (obviously, who wouldn't?) but then accepted that as part of his life and what not.

Of course, that didn't sit well with me, but at that time, I had a major realization moment. I realized life sucks and that "unfulfilled dreams, fantasies, goals, and desires... that alone should be enough for one to CTB." Well any reason (or even lack thereof) as it's up to the person. What I wanted (one of many things and desires) was getting a perfect GPA in college, even for just one semester (4.0 just fyi), did not happen and after such a stark reality, it just reinforced my stance on how futile and miserable life is. There are many other disappointments and things, but this realization among many other ones is just another key, major point in pushing for my wanting to CTB. Of course, sadly I didn't check out in my early 20's even, but this is just one example story where I had a major realization.

In the end, yes there are more things besides the lack of fulfilling goals and achievements that I wanted in my life and sentience (this just being one example of many others), However, most people just 'cope', 'settle', 'adapt', which is why they are still around, but for us and the people who won't do either of those end up (attempting to) CTB to avoid the entirety of the shitshow that is life itself. There is nothing wrong with that and ultimately it's their choice. I could easily see that sentience just sucks for a lot of people, because maybe for another person, perhaps an athelete name B, if B didn't attain what they wanted, then to B, it's life changing and soul crushing; it's not my place nor anybody's place to undermine or to downplay B's shortcomings or failure to attain what B truly wanted... So this overall story just shows an example of what I realized while in college in my 20's and also how it applies to others' in similar shoes; they too have their own disappointments and stuff, and maybe for me it doesn't hold the same weight, but to them it's their whole world on that thing and there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody should gatekeep or undermine another's own failure of fulfillment or attainment of goals, desires, fantasies, etc.

 

[ceilng_tile]

I'm glad someone else understands. No one else gets to decide whether your dreams are "reasonable" enough to be worth dying for. That is your decision alone.

 

[EternalShore]

It's a nice story but rather sad for both of you~ :( broken dreams suck lots~ :( unfortunately, well, my life overall is kinda like that too... :( if I don't get what I wish for, then it would be better to die indeed~

 

[Forever Sleep]

I have mixed feelings really. On the one hand, it's hard to change who we are and the emotions we feel about things. On the other, we may make compromises to attain a desired end goal.

Although, part of our responses/ desires/ values will have been taught to us to begin with. For example- your education is important. You must get the highest grade possible to do well. Is that even true though? Do you think every person that got top marks landed their dream job? Surely- that's the ultimate point to it. Not simply attaining a scrap of paper you can frame.

Obviously, it gives a person a better chance. Still, I think it's also important to question: 'Why do I want this so much?' I imagine most of the time, it's because we believe it will bring us joy/ fulfiment.

I can guarantee that they didn't always land their dream job though. Being employed in a top job takes more than just a qualification. So, some people may take a more hollistic approach. As in- I want this particular job (as my end goal) but, it's unlikely I'll get very top grades. How else can I go about giving myself an edge to get it? Do I need to focus on getting experience in the field, making contacts etc?

Being fixated on a random thing isn't always helpful in the long-term. I do actually know from experience. I got first class honours in both of my degrees. I'm far from the top of my industry though. I don't have enough skill/ talent for one but I would also struggle to work around others. Being fixated on one thing at the exclusion of other essential things isn't always good. So, compromise abd adaptation can make us happier/ more successful in the long- term- sometimes.

But sure, we can still legitimately say- I don't want to play by these rules. Ultimately, we have choices. I suppose in our own ways, we all try to find the path of least resistance. We either compromise in pursuit of an end goal. We insist that we won't alter our standards because that would create more suffering or, we quit all together and CTB. I suspect we all know deep down which path is the most tolerable for us.

If I looked at my own life, I figured out early on that being creative gave me a sense of purpose and fulfilment. It also gave me a terrific sense of calm. Almost like meditation. I could lose myself and my problems for hours on end. I wanted to spend all my time being creative. Therefore- it made sense to try and get a job in it. If 30-50% of my waking hours are spent working, it would make sense to enjoy the work!

In order to do that though, I've made compromises all over the place. I've devoted my life to it at the expense of friends and family. I've accepted that I will need to work my arse off to attain the standard to try and keep my job. I've sacrificed my health with lots of horrid fumes and chemicals. I've done Head of Department roles because they provided financial stability whilst still allowing me some time to create. I've stepped down from better paying jobs in order to give myself more time to create.

I think sometimes- it may look as if someone is compromising/ giving up when in fact, it's simply that their priorities have changed. Some musicians have 'quit' for periods of time to spend more time with their families. I just think it's more complex sometimes than people simply just settling for 'less' although, sometimes we may feel forced to.

But personally speaking- sure- I think any type of problem we have in life that is causing us immense suffering can feel worth CTB over. Most especially if we can't see a way of overcoming it.

I think some of us simply feel like it would be too uncomfortable/ difficult to adapt to be able to truly thrive in this world. I certainly feel like that socially. Being confronted with the prospect of having to work around other people again is a huge CTB trigger for me.

I know it's what I should do. There's even a tiny chance it would ultimately make me happier. The 'journey' would be horrendous though. I know because I've tried it before. So, that's my compromise too far.

 

[TAW122]

Interesting responses and I wrote this story partly to give my thoughts on why people CTB, but also to point out a common legitimate reason that people would CTB that would be logical for the person.

@ceilng_tile Yes, I agree and that goes for anyone/everyone as well. It's one's own personal decision on CTB'ing for any/all reason.

@EternalShore I had the same sentiments too and I believe even before I was an adult, even if I didn't understand what 'CTB' is or such, I had a feeling that if I didn't get what I wanted, life wasn't worth living or is enjoyable enough to continue long term.

@Forever Sleep That's a really interesting perspective and you raised a lot of good points here. I suppose most of my life, there are indeed many (beyond the story I just told) of dreams, fantasies, goals, desires, etc. that went unfulfilled and perhaps it is a part of life. Sadly most people (and even myself currently) still cling on because of copes, distractions, adaptation, and settling, but rationally I know it's just not worth sticking around. Also, most people perhaps fear death (partly due to SI but also their own programming through religious values and such), so that's yet another factor they cling on, try to cope and distract themselves into accepting an less ideal existence or whatever suffering they face. Anyways, yes, I think what you said about adaptation and what one could do is true, even if 'we could' or 'should do' doesn't mean we would just go through the pain just to appease and continue living if that's not what we want. Hence I held the position that having just unfulfilled things and setbacks is more than sufficient for one to check out on one's own terms, without the need or say of others (or just any reason). In the end, I (speaking for myself personally) don't think I'd stick around just to live with these unfulfilled dreams, at least not the long term so whenever I'm ready and what not, I do plan to pull the trigger and go.

 

[TAW122]

So I just thought of something, but before I proceed, I wanted to mention that I wrote this thread mainly to show that there is yet another baseline reason for people to CTB, if anything (of course, any/all reasons (or even none at all) are valid towards one's individual choice to CTB as CTB is a personal, individual choice that only oneself can make.). I also gave my personal anecdotal story as an example and for context.

Anyways, so I thought I'd bump this thread a bit since I have yet another example (partly based on reality, but fictional, hypothetical story example) that further conveys what I mean. Here is the story:

In an alternative universe where there are magical stones that hold mythical properties and are a rare element and possess some special hidden talent, power, what have you, only a few are able to harness it and unlock it's power. Also, these magical stones are very rare and limited in existence, and there is a unique princess/maiden in another tribe (Tribe B) who is able to utilize such power of the magical stone, and the prince of tribe (Tribe A) yearns to wed/marry the princess/maiden of B. Additionally, the prince of A has some seer ability to predict things (weather, events, and more) as well as very high IQ. However, since Prince A wants to marry a princess B due to her charm and ability to heavily/fully harness magical stones, but failed to due to princess B marrying someone else, Prince A CTBs, then also princess B wanted to marry someone (not prince A) who is talented at hunting and climbing trees, which will dub as hunter C, but hunter C has no interest whatsoever in princess B and instead is taken by maiden D (D who is dancer - no coincidence), and princess B CTBs.

(In an slightly different alternative scenario...)
Alternatively, assuming somehow one in millions chance both tribes found commonality and somehow, perfectly fulfilled both of each others' fantasies, dreams, and desires, then technically they would be a perfect match and then wouldn't CTB over unfulfilled fantasies, dreams, and/or desires. In this sub-hypothetical case, we could suppose prince of A and princess of B complement each other such that prince of A wants to marry princess B for her ability to harness the magic stone to the fullest and her talents and princess B wants prince A for his skill in seer (and very high IQ). Then since both have their dreams and desires aligned and fulfilled, they are less likely to CTB over that (maybe other reason, or perhaps they may not even CTB at all..).

In the end, notwithstanding all the complexities and just putting it simply, the disappointing reality and dread by the prince of the tribe should be a legitimate and understandable reason for prince to CTB (or even princess in the other tribe not fulfilling her dream or whatever her reason may be). The fact that universe is cruel in that way, especially being cold and uncaring (non-sentient), that alone with the disappointment would be valid reason(s) to CTB.

 

[ginko0]

100% agree. The worst part, for me, is that we're not even at fault most of the times. In the individualistic society we live in, every failure and success is attributed to the individual. But, as you said, external and uncontrollable causes can, and will, stop us from achieving what we want. The family we were born into, the expectancies of our parents, the school we studied at, the teachers who taught us, our own predispositions and temperament, our health, the motives in the unconscious mind... You get the idea. This is why I laugh at the notion of free will.

If we were in complete control of the variables, and were able to understand their outcomes and meaning, I'd radically affirm that CTB is a foolish thing, for you'd be always capable of changing your life and getting what you want. But reality is far more cruel. You're a plaything for natural and cultural forces far greater than you. Want to be x? To achieve x? Well, you can TRY. But always lower your expectations. After all, we we're born not to fulfill these silly things called dreams or something, but to work forever and keep on consuming!

 

[TAW122]

Just as a bump to this thread, I want to clarify that the professor himself is not distraught or anything and rather adapts and accepts sentience and life for what it is, which I commend and respect. The story about him and I and the example he used (about running a marathon) was just to show some context in the comparison between fantasies, goals, and desires. There are other examples I could have used but I thought those would suffice.

Even though I don't agree with him, as I'm more of a well if I really can't get it, it doesn't matter if I am capable of adapting (and suffering albeit less), enduring and accepting sentience for what it is. Instead, I'm more of a well I did what I can and if sentience sucks enough then I'm checking out on my own terms. Again, with this thread, it's mostly just to raise awareness to the fact that there is a less common, but just as valid reason for CTB'ing (of course, all or any reason for CTB is valid as it's based on the individual's personal circumstances).

 

[Wolf Girl]

I get a lot of harsh judgement from the "normies" for how sad I get over having unattainable dreams. But It's challenging for me because I do a lot of daydreaming to get by. My therapist said it's because of autism. I dunno. I just know it feels sad to realize that the most fulfilling daydreams I have are impossible. I never thought much about it, but most of my suffering comes from these unattainable desires. I think it's a perfectly valid reason to want to leave.

 

[TAW122]

I get a lot of harsh judgement from the "normies" for how sad I get over having unattainable dreams. But It's challenging for me because I do a lot of daydreaming to get by. My therapist said it's because of autism. I dunno. I just know it feels sad to realize that the most fulfilling daydreams I have are impossible. I never thought much about it, but most of my suffering comes from these unattainable desires. I think it's a perfectly valid reason to want to leave.

Yeah I agree and despite many failed and unattainable goals, dreams, fantasies, desires, I have more than enough fuel to CTB. I think I've only stuck around mainly due to lack of method (for the longest time), waiting for the right time and circumstance. Then also coping and biding my time (enduring) which isn't really thriving.

But besides myself, in general I still think for everyone/anyone that reason (or lack thereof) alone is more than sufficient to CTB.

 

[badatparties]

Going to listen to some of this right now.