• UK users: Due to a formal investigation into this site by Ofcom under the UK Online Safety Act 2023, we strongly recommend using a trusted, no-logs VPN. This will help protect your privacy, bypass censorship, and maintain secure access to the site. Read the full VPN guide here.

  • Hey Guest,

    Today, OFCOM launched an official investigation into Sanctioned Suicide under the UK’s Online Safety Act. This has already made headlines across the UK.

    This is a clear and unprecedented overreach by a foreign regulator against a U.S.-based platform. We reject this interference and will be defending the site’s existence and mission.

    In addition to our public response, we are currently seeking legal representation to ensure the best possible defense in this matter. If you are a lawyer or know of one who may be able to assist, please contact us at [email protected].

    Read our statement here:

    Donate via cryptocurrency:

    Bitcoin (BTC): 34HyDHTvEhXfPfb716EeEkEHXzqhwtow1L
    Ethereum (ETH): 0xd799aF8E2e5cEd14cdb344e6D6A9f18011B79BE9
    Monero (XMR): 49tuJbzxwVPUhhDjzz6H222Kh8baKe6rDEsXgE617DVSDD8UKNaXvKNU8dEVRTAFH9Av8gKkn4jDzVGF25snJgNfUfKKNC8
Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,876
I'm interested in the nature of reality and of course, the question of whether "to be or not to be", and how those two things relate. I like to see how different ideas influence people's opinions about life. The Theory Of Everything which computer scientist Stephen Wolfram has put forward seems to hold some promise as an interpretation of what's going on in the universe.

The theory rests upon the assumption that reality is composed of many (but not infinite) points of space which make up everything we observe, making up space and all of its contents (not unlike how water is said to be made of a finite number of atoms.) Because they make up space itself, we can't determine the location of the points, but we can define their positions relative to each other. The points then update their relative positions according to some kind of rule or set of rules (although he doesn't say where the rule(s) comes from). Below is an illustration from Wolfram depicting how these points could interact given a particular rule.​

WolframPhysicsProject-0042-AnnouncementBlog-medium.png


The same updating rule is applied to the points over and over, changing the structure from something simple (top left) to something fiendishly complex (bottom right). The process continues ad infinitum. You can see how such a rule, or set thereof, could conceivably end up weaving a fabric of space and all the elaborate structures we observe in our reality. It has allegedly been proven in mathematical terms, that most rules which produce complexity this high always end up producing stuff which could never be predicted from the rule itself - he terms this phenomenon 'computational irreducibility'. It is closely related to undecidability in CompSci. He claims that this inability for us to totally predict the future state is due to our own brains having no special privilege in the universe - they are "computationally equivalent" to the world around them, performing computations (doing stuff; evolving, changing) with an equal amount of sophistication to most of the structures around them, and this explains why we never seem to arrive at a point of knowing absolutely everything there is to know.

Now to the question "does life get better?". If this theory indeed does accurately describe reality, then that question is undecidable - you can't truthfully give a yes or no answer concerning whether you will become happier about your life in the future. You cannot predict what the points of space making up your brain and everything else you care about, will do in the future - they might end up in a configuration which leads you to great happiness, or they could keep you in the same unhappy state, or you could get even worse, nobody can say.

Personally? I think this 'inability to know what will happen' supports the allowing of suicide. Nobody can guarantee us contentment with our own lives (think about the lies of people who say things like "I promise it gets better, just hang on" etc - they are claiming, falsely, to know the future!). Nobody can guarantee us freedom from terrible torments and suffering. Of course, this theory doesn't forbid that things could get better. All power to those who want to hold on to the hope that it does improve. But it's in our own interest to design an easy escape from this system (aka suicide) if the need arises, because life will never bother to give us any consolatory promises that things will be good, or even just about ok.​
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Dead Meat, pthnrdnojvsc, ReallyTired and 5 others
Painless_end

Painless_end

Life is too difficult for me
Oct 11, 2019
794
The whole premise of life is that nothing is promised / assured to anyone who wants to live a meaningful life till old age and die of natural causes.

It's the reason why people of all kinds of different intelligence and abilities exist and make attempts to make a living, failing which, they meet doom.

Nothing is guaranteed. But the response to this is different based on what you are as a person. "Normal" people are able to take this in stride and keep moving towards the future.

Others are not so lucky.
 
Labean

Labean

Member
Nov 5, 2021
55
Time goes from the past to the present and then to the future. It's here on earth. It is believed that in the subtle worlds time is compressed into one point, and there you can see the future. But this is theory.
 
BeansOfRequirement

BeansOfRequirement

Man-child, loser, autistic, etc.
Jan 26, 2021
5,789
Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how the weird dot things are needed at all here.
 
  • Yay!
  • Like
Reactions: NormaJeane, ReallyTired, stygal and 1 other person
FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
42,541
There is no limit as to how bad things can get in this life, there is unlimited potential for suffering. For me that is a terrifying thought, the fact that there is a chance that things could always get much worse. I think when you realise this truth about life, wanting suicide is perfectly rational. I see not existing as being objectively better than being alive. Once we are dead, we cannot suffer.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Dead Meat, demuic, stygal and 3 others
Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,876
Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see how the weird dot things are needed at all here.
It's not necessarily needed, but I think it's a useful visualisation of the idea; of applying a simple rule and ending up with a complex thing. I maybe can't explain it so well. the arrows between the dots represent the rules specifying how the dots will change next, and over many iterations you get complexity that can't be predicted, mathematically or otherwise. You can think of the dots as the "points of space" which Wolfram supposes make up space itself.
Time goes from the past to the present and then to the future. It's here on earth. It is believed that in the subtle worlds time is compressed into one point, and there you can see the future. But this is theory.
I hope he's wrong honestly. I think the theory still has to pass many tests before it is to be taken as a good picture of the universe.
The whole premise of life is that nothing is promised / assured to anyone who wants to live a meaningful life till old age and die of natural causes.

It's the reason why people of all kinds of different intelligence and abilities exist and make attempts to make a living, failing which, they meet doom.

Nothing is guaranteed. But the response to this is different based on what you are as a person. "Normal" people are able to take this in stride and keep moving towards the future.

Others are not so lucky.
Yes, many people just shrug it off saying "well that's life" and they seem unbothered by it. This is totally baffling and even irritating to me. I can't imagine thinking that way.
 
Last edited:
NormaJeane

NormaJeane

Member
Mar 24, 2021
648
No human can understand reality, but if life gets better seems to be about a young and physically healthy person because there is no hope of getting better for a person who is very old, chronically disabled or chronicallt sick, then the only solution is death.
 
  • Hugs
Reactions: Dead Meat

Similar threads

Darkover
Replies
13
Views
281
Offtopic
yxmux
yxmux
BringMeToLife
Replies
9
Views
263
Suicide Discussion
-nobodyknows-
-nobodyknows-
Darkover
Replies
4
Views
230
Suicide Discussion
Forever Sleep
F