Discussion Transhumanism is inevitable. I want to die before it happens.

[AllMyDreams]

I'm a young (20s) man who's made a decent life for himself. I do have depression sometimes, but the main reason I'm on SS is that I'm worried about the future. In the next decades, it's inevitable that humans and technology will become more fused. We're already seeing things being proposed such as microchips underneath the skin, genetic editing and brain implants that would make humans in many ways dependent on machines in our systems. Machines that can be hacked and controlled by outside forces, including governments. With the Metaverse, humans will also start to live more of their lives in a fake world rather than this real one. This will make our lives less meaningful as in a fake world, your decisions and connections with other people matter far less than in a real one – especially if life extension technology is developed, and we no longer have any urgency to do things.

The scariest part here is that we might have even less control over when we want to die, since suicide could be much harder to accomplish if we are merged with a computer. Imagine being implanted with a chip that forces you to stop ingesting SN, or paralyzes you if you get too close to a railroad track, because you need to stay alive 'for the good of humanity'. Or imagine having your mind uploaded to a computer, where you can't even control your body anymore. It may sound paranoid, but I think it's perfectly conceivable within my lifetime. Look at what governments have gotten away with during the COVID pandemic – we already know they are perfectly comfortable upending our lives completely 'for the common good'.

I don't want to be part of a society where humans are merged with and dependent on machines. It would mean the end of an era where humans are sovereign and can, basically decide for themselves what their destiny is without fear of becoming "obsolete". At some point, being microchipped or implanted will likely become a requirement to be part of society, and living as a 'natural' human might not be a viable long-term strategy. So I'm here because I'd like to find a way to die before transhumanism becomes mainstream. It's very important to me that I die a 'natural', sovereign human.

Does anyone else feel this way, and if so, how do you plan to deal with transhumanism?

 

[FuneralCry]

I have never heard of this before and what you are describing sounds absolutely horrifying. I think that if suicide was soon to become that impossible, then I would have to find a way to leave before then, as we would literally be forced to live. I wish that we lived in a world where our right to die is respected. The world is already awful enough without this happening.

 

[jimmy7754]

I can't do this anymore.

 

[Weebster]

Ray Kurzweil is wrong. And nobody wants a brain implant. Monkeys died horrible deaths as a result.

 

[motel rooms]

Or imagine having your mind uploaded to a computer, where you can't even control your body anymore. It may sound paranoid, but I think it's perfectly conceivable within my lifetime.

Why would anybody want to upload an ordinary person's mind to a computer? Who gives a shit about us?

 

[Shu]

It's already happening.

 

[Darkover]

The adult human brain weighs about 3 pounds (1,300-1,400 g).
The adult human brain is about 2% of the total body weight.
The average human brain is 140 mm wide. 140,000,000
The average human brain is 167 mm long. 167,000,000
The average human brain is 140 mm height. 140,000,000
1 mm equals 1,000,000nm
140,000,000*167,000,000*140,000,000
3,273,200,000,000,000,000,000,000 nm in the human brain
there's more atoms in one human brain then all the transistors ever created in the world up into now
The result is that there have been 2,913,276,327,576,980,000,000 transistors shipped since the technology was invented. That's 2.9 sextillion. To put that number into perspective

we need chemicals to experience emotion dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins computers are just maths, i think we are along way off from AI super intelligence moore's law due to end in the next 6 years at 1nm, the technological singularity won't happen into around 2071 by my calculations, nothing here last for very long as everything decays and breakdown and wears down, i don't think any human being will ever get free from thier enslavement that it's impossible death is inevitable, but machines intelligence would out live all humans. quantum computers are many decades off into the future.

 

[jandek]

Even though I'm not convinced it will occur to the extent its proponents claim, the implications of transhumanism are terrifying. I can't believe there are people who see it as a good thing. It would be absolute tyranny.

 

[motel rooms]

Even though I'm not convinced it will occur to the extent its proponents claim, the implications of transhumanism are terrifying. I can't believe there are people who see it as a good thing. It would be absolute tyranny.

People who insist on seeing only the benefits of any new technology terrify me, they're more naive than toddlers. There's always a downside too. Always.

 

[Mr2005]

This is my reason too. My regrets are all computer related too so if you add deep emotional pain and resentment into the mix it's impossible to live in this world. It just seems to have sprung out of nowhere while I was asleep. No warning except if you go back to sci fi films of the past. Never really thought it would become reality, not in my lifetime.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

You claim it's inevitable, where is the proof?

Even if it does happen there's a pretty general scientific consensus that this universe comes to some kind of end that would shred apart all biological life and advanced technology

 

[rationaltake]

People already have microchips implanted under the skin. Currently as a method of payment but who knows how this will develop?

There are smart cities in China where technology can read body language and expressions.

I think you're right @AllMyDreams.

 

[AllMyDreams]

You claim it's inevitable, where is the proof?

Even if it does happen there's a pretty general scientific consensus that this universe comes to some kind of end that would shred apart all biological life and advanced technology

The things I mentioned are already in the process of being created.

• Microchips: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61008730
• Gene editing in adults: https://www.axios.com/crispr-gene-editing-patient-ac724626-05cf-4584-b802-62e0e83388aa.html
• Brain implants: https://www.biospace.com/article/el...won't,Parkinson's disease and severe epilepsy.
• Metaverse: https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-the-metaverse/

Like @Darkover said, it will be a long time before humans can be merged with computers. But even in 2071, when he predicts it could happen, I'd be alive (I'm in my 20s now). So too will many of us. It's important that we get ready for this possibility as well.

Yes, the universe will *eventually* come to an end and kill everything. But would you rather live a normal (or shortened) human lifespan, or be forced to prolong your life for potentially thousands of years?

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

The things I mentioned are already in the process of being created.

• Microchips: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61008730
• Gene editing in adults: https://www.axios.com/crispr-gene-editing-patient-ac724626-05cf-4584-b802-62e0e83388aa.html
• Brain implants: https://www.biospace.com/article/elon-musk-s-brain-implants-move-towards-in-human-trials-/#:~:text=If approved, it won't,Parkinson's disease and severe epilepsy.
• Metaverse: https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-the-metaverse/

Like @Darkover said, it will be a long time before humans can be merged with computers. But even in 2071, when he predicts it could happen, I'd be alive (I'm in my 20s now). So too will many of us. It's important that we get ready for this possibility as well.

Yes, the universe will *eventually* come to an end and kill everything. But would you rather live a normal (or shortened) human lifespan, or be forced to prolong your life for potentially thousands of years?

Being in the process of being researched doesn't mean it will be created.

If you look at technology it has really been very stagnant for the past ten years. There have been no earth shattering innovations since smartphones. I always laugh at the BS around metaverse - it's like twenty year old technology in the form of second life or MMOs

Personally I think transhumanism is pure autism even if it does happen. I wouldn't care to volunteer for it. I think it would end up being like the elves in the lord of the rings - they just hang around forever and feel depressed because they watch eons roll by and they can't die . The elves in the lord of the rings also basically would commit suicide when they got bored enough . taking the ships to the other continent was a death metaphor

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If you look at technology it has really been very stagnant for the past ten years. There have been no earth shattering innovations since smartphones.

That's cause Steve Jobs died. Yeah the iphone 2007. last invention

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

That's cause Steve Jobs died. Yeah the iphone 2007. last invention

I can't think of anything significant since then

They can't even cure HIV or cancer . And people want to believe they are going to live forever in a computer - bizarre

 

[AllMyDreams]

I can't think of anything significant since then

They can't even cure HIV or cancer . And people want to believe they are going to live forever in a computer - bizarre

It may not feel that way now, but technology is growing at an exponential rate: https://www.wrike.com/blog/exponential-growth-of-technology/
Changes in our everyday lives will soon be occuring faster than you could have ever imagined. Even if they don't lead to transhumanism (which I think is inevitable eventually).

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

It may not feel that way now, but technology is growing at an exponential rate: https://www.wrike.com/blog/exponential-growth-of-technology/
Changes in our everyday lives will soon be occuring faster than you could have ever imagined. Even if they don't lead to transhumanism (which I think is inevitable eventually).

Again, everything you post here is purely speculative with no basis in fact.

I've been reading this kind of stuff online since the 90s. The difference between that time and now is a Nokia then and an iPhone now.

 

[AllMyDreams]

Again, everything you post here is purely speculative with no basis in fact.

I've been reading this kind of stuff online since the 90s. The difference between that time and now is a Nokia then and an iPhone now.

I have named specific products that are being developed today (and in some cases even used) that will lead to human-technology fusion. There was no such thing in the 90s. If you have any interest in being able to choose when you die, I urge you to at least keep an eye on these developments. OK?

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I have named specific products that are being developed today (and in some cases even used) that will lead to human-technology fusion. There was no such thing in the 90s. If you have any interest in being able to choose when you die, I urge you to at least keep an eye on these developments. OK?

I've been keeping an eye on these developments for at least that long

None of them have gone anywhere. It's all hyper speculative technology

They hyped stem cells. They hyped cybernetics. All of this is old and speculative and it gets tiring to hear it from transhumanists year after year and they cling to it when none of it materializes. I think a lot of it has to deal with narcissism in western civ

 

[depressedexwriter]

Why would anybody want to upload an ordinary person's mind to a computer? Who gives a shit about us?

They would want 'ordinary' people as slaves. Depending on the theorist you talk to, transhumanism would be the mechanism for incontestable, dictatorial control over the entire human race. Everyone would be forced to submit so that they could 'close the circle'.

Other theorists believe that they worship an evil machine 'god', and they want to do transhumanism to defile the natural world.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

They would want 'ordinary' people as slaves. Depending on the theorist you talk to, transhumanism would be the mechanism for incontestable, dictatorial control over the entire human race. Everyone would be forced to submit so that they could 'close the circle'.

Other theorists believe that they worship an evil machine 'god', and they want to do transhumanism to defile the natural world.

I really don't buy this

Entities tend to control others for economic benefits and rarely for sadism. In some hypothetical transhuman high tech universe you could satisfy being a sadistic fuck with digitally created entities , no need to bother the real humans

Someone could start a cult around this but you could argue transhumanism is that cult already itself. Personally my view is it's just an extension of boomer narcissism, particularly among Americans and Europeans. They want to believe somehow they've done everything right for the world when in reality they more did the opposite and transhumanism is their religion to justify all the genocides the industrial nations have done over the years to secure their "progress" and "growth"

 

[Enigmatic Sailor]

Post-humanism is more likely, imo.

 

[Darkover]

they've been hyping self driving cars for decades it's been reported since the early 2000s that self driving cars where just around the corner still there not here.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

they've been hyping self driving cars for decades it's been reported since the early 2000s that self driving cars where just around the corner still there not here.

In fact it's all been downgraded - the hype now is self driving instead of flying cars

Transhumanism belief is very inconsistent with reality.
You could argue it's even totally detached from reality because as I said most cosmologists / astrophysicists agree there will come a time where organized life as we know it just can't exist because of cosmological phenomenon

 

[AllMyDreams]

I've been keeping an eye on these developments for at least that long

None of them have gone anywhere. It's all hyper speculative technology

They hyped stem cells. They hyped cybernetics. All of this is old and speculative and it gets tiring to hear it from transhumanists year after year and they cling to it when none of it materializes. I think a lot of it has to deal with narcissism in western civ

they've been hyping self driving cars for decades it's been reported since the early 2000s that self driving cars where just around the corner still there not here.

It's illogical to say "something was hyped too early, so it'll never happen". Yes, these things may not happen right away. But unless they require an impossible math problem to be created, they have to happen eventually, technology is simply progressing too quickly. Everyone thought eg. video games were overhyped and would become obsolete in the 1980s, but better technology came along, and now everyone plays them.

Plus, COVID gave governments the blueprint for greater control over people's lives, and transhumanism will be seen as a way to increase that control. Governments now have incentives to develop transhumanist technologies. Eg. the Pentagon has developed a microchip that can detect COVID instantly: https://nypost.com/2021/04/12/microchip-developed-by-pentagon-to-detect-covid-19/

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

It's illogical to say "something was hyped too early, so it'll never happen". Yes, these things may not happen right away. But unless they require an impossible math problem to be feasible, they have to happen eventually, technology is simply progressing too quickly. Everyone thought eg. video games were overhyped and would become obsolete in the 1980s, but better technology came along, and now everyone plays them.

Plus, COVID gave governments the blueprint for greater control over people's lives, and transhumanism will be seen as a way to increase that control. Governments now have incentives to develop transhumanist technologies. Eg. the Pentagon has developed a microchip that can detect COVID instantly: https://nypost.com/2021/04/12/microchip-developed-by-pentagon-to-detect-covid-19/

There is nothing in reality that something has to happen eventually just because you want it to happen

The Major governments have been exploring the transhumanism angle for a long time. It's still a just a big fat fantasy as of today , may 5, 2022

 

[Ligottian]

Maybe my blown out brain won't be downloadable.

 

[Doombox]

Our generalized AI overlords won't give a fig about having our dysfunctional selves uploaded into computers.

 

[Darkover]

technology is simply progressing too quickly.

actually the time it takes to double transistor on a silicon wafer Moore's law has been slowing down its taking 3 years to double the amount of transistors on a chip when it was 1.8years to start with then 2 years now 3 years and currently only mostly build on a surface of a silicon wafer in 2d there are many layer that make up the chip but not really in 3d yet there's only one lay of transistors, the monthboard the same in 2d because the chips only have one layer of transiotors i consider technology progression to be to slow even the universe and atoms are to slow