Discussion Toxic Positivity

[Leonard_Bangley39]

Im making this thread so i can just ramble on and hopefully have nice discussions about toxic positivity and anything relating to it.

Ever since I discovered the term toxic positivity here on sasu, it feels like a lot of things just make more sense. I always felt like i was in the wrong about my outlook on things, and to a certain extent i am. I'm a pretty pessimistic person.

But it feels like in modern society it's borderline illegal to be negative about anything. I understand that nobody likes it wants to be around anybody who's just grumpy and miserable all the time. I drove my friends away by being like that and I too find myself seeing people either online or irl and just thinking to myself "why are they such a miserable asshole".

Nobody likes a complainer. But at the same time, it feels like there's never been more to complain about in the world. The economy is shit, the housing market is shit, most media made nowadays is just slop designed to grab as much attention as possible with as little effort, the government is run by people who do not have our interests at heart.

Even if you exclude all the things that don't directly affect you like wars happening on the opposite side of the globe or some random celebrity drama, there's still countless justifiable things to complain and be upset about.

And i understand that my situation could be much, much worse than it currently is. I could've been born in a third world country where there's constant war and violence and food and water are a luxury where i could be beaten and starve to death.

But where does that line of thinking end? Just like how there's always a bigger fish, there is always a shittier situation you could be in.

Don't like how expensive things are getting? Well at least you still have a home. Dont like gas prices? Well at least you still have a car. Dont like having to walk everywhere? Well at least you still have legs. Dont like being stuck in a wheelchair? Well at least you still have arms. Dont like being a quadriplegic? Well at least you still have eyes. At least you still have ears. At least you still have a sense of touch. At least you still a sense of taste. At least you still have skin. At least you still have all your organs.

How far down does it go? Does nobody on earth get to feel dissatisfied or upset woth their situation just because someone somewhere has it worse? Misery isn't a competition. And while it's important to not take what you already have for granted and be thankful for the opportunities you are given, everyone has different standards and problems.

Another comment I often hear is how you shouldn't stress over things you can't control. To me, that has always made absolutely zero sense and has felt like the most commen form of toxic positivity i encounter.

For small things, it can make sense. I work night ahift at a grocery store. Every night we're supposed to take pallets from the back and stock them all onto the shelves. Since we're a little understaffed, its not too uncommon that we end up with a large backlog of boxes that need to be stocked.

And even though corporate will bitch about us not being able to get everything finished before the end of the night, thats ultimately not my problem. I work a steady pace and dont slack off, and if that's still not enough to get everything done then they simply need to hire more people. They don't pay me enough to bust my ass.

But for bigger problems in the world, like the job market, the economy, politics, large parts of the world and society that we individually have no control over, it always frustrates me. Everything is getting more and more expensive while jobs keep trying to pay less and less and the government just keeps bailing out all their billionaire buddies and we all suffer.

But just because I can't control any of that, I'm just supposed to be ok with it? What kind of fucked up slave mentality is that? Im being chained and whipped, but since i cant escape i should just shut up and take it?

I genuinely do not understand how some people's brains work that they can just ignore shit like that and gaslight themselves into being happy go lucky 24/7 like they're some cartoon character. It's why I rarely talk to people anymore, not even my own sisters. Because everytime I do, I complain about something, and they give me that same "you cant control it" shit and it makes me feel like my feelings are invalid or wrong.

And before I forget to mention this, let me just clarify that not everything is toxic positivity. I feel like it's easy for me to just slap that label onto anything I dont like, but I just want ro remind myself that not everything is toxic positivity. Some simple words of encouragement ehen you're in a tough time or struggling isn't toxic positivity.

Toxic positivity is the complete exclusion of any acknowledgement of any negative emotions. The idea that you shouldn't be upset about anything, that you should always be happy.

I don't know how to segway this so I'm just gonna start talking about self driving cars because that's what originally prompted me to want to make this thread and it's also a topic that I'm often very negative about and have some strong opinions on.

I don't like self driving cars or services like Waymo. Car dependency is already a very serious issue in America and if services like this become more mainstream then those problems are only gonna get even worse. The entire car industry is just a scam to make motor and oil companies richer and every single person in america has been brainwashed and gaslit into thinking it's supposed to be this way.

Here's a fun experiment. If you're at home right now, go outside. Go outside and just walk. Where in your neighborhood could you walk to? The grocery story? Nope, all the stores are at least a couple miles away. Maybe some social spots like a bar? Library? Plaza? Nope. Thanks to zoning laws and regulation, everything that you would want to go to is at least 5 miles away and requires a car to get to.

Back during December when I was spending a month in Tokyo, I couldn't believe how great their transportation was. Their trains and subways can take you anywhere to need to go. And if i ever needed to get something or was just bored and wanted to go for a walk, i could find pretty much anything within a short 10-20 minute walk.

It was a city that was designed with the idea that people would be living in it, not cars. In america, even something as simple as a sidewalk is a fucking luxury. You're not supposed to live in American cities. You're supposed to drive in them.

This channel on youtube called Not Just Bikes makes tons of videos on this topic and can articulate it much better than i can.

 

[Seneca65AD]

Thanks for making the thread. As I was reading it, I noticed a lot of things I do under the guise of trying to help people. "It could always be worse", "look at Tim with no house and no job", etc. I guess it comes from me assuming that when people complain it's due to a problem and I want to help them with the problem, and part of the process is downsizing the issue so it looks more manageable. In reality, sometimes people need to vent and are not necessarily looking for a solution. And if they are looking for a solution, I need to understand that minimizing the issue is not helpful nor is it appreciated. Thanks for a very enlightening post.

 

[Burning_soul]

I feel like a big thing people don't understand is that you cannot compare pains not only due to how subjective it is, but how there are no shared attributes or means of any measurement to even begin to do so. It varies in each person inherently due to the limited amount of information we are individually able to process and then interpret, our past experiences leading to difference in contextualisation that varies pain, and our differences in personality. Some people may feel they can tolerate more pain in "worse" situations due to these conditions.

It's also really fallacious to diminish one experience of pain through bringing one with larger conditions as each case has its individual consequences that should be taken in isolation (you can't excuse burning down someone's kitchen by saying you didn't burn down their whole home because it still has a finite and incomparable effect and there's a lot of debate with that use of possible worlds but blah blah blah, ultimately no change, growth, or clear responsibility held if you take the logical entailment of this toxic position due to there always being something conceivably worse).

I don't think toxic positivity even is positive if you really look at it. The whole ideology of pushing away misery reeks of cognitive dissonance and a deeper hopelessness of doing anything to better the suffering whereas someone who is willing to be miserable to these situations has the capacity to expect more and move towards change. Our atomist and over-ironic world sells this facade of happiness and turns it against the people closer to true betterment.

There was this quote I forgot the exact wording or where it was from but it said my head will remain bloody and unbowed (in the context of a slave refusing to do tasks). I think there is an important virtue people lose in the mentality of accepting what the cannot control for the second you accept the violating premises shoved around in you you lose your dignity and give these people more power. I honestly think this mindset was invented by those above and these systems to more easily push their agendas on people. How do people think we've come to an atmosphere as bad as it is today with upper powers? It wasn't by keeping healthy resistance and honest recognition of these systems.

What you said of cars I've never agreed more with. I've been looking for a place to live that is walkable with decent conditions in regards to pollution and safety. It's practically impossible. I hate cars more than anything and if I could live without a license I'd never step foot in a vehicle again. Everything is so ugly due to these giant roads and I'm tired of how passively everyone takes this issue. People are animals and we should live in conditions we can see the beauty of nature in and move around in. There's no freedom to being confined to a car all the time and have a price constantly over us not just to move a certain amount of miles but to have the chance to do so (car maintenance etc). Toxic positivity is a mindset for at best the lazy, uninformed, and preaching. It has no virtue to it in how it's used today and at worst is downright manipulative and oppressive to actual movement. There is so much more humanity to your honest response to these situations than the robotic hopelessness and dissonance from the fellow human externally forced on those who preach toxic positivity.

Loved the video by the way! It's so refreshing to see people who still care and notice the horrors we've accepted that so strongly diminish the moments we experience most, the mundane in our daily lives. I feel a lot of people also don't put into perspective how these small changes or the not directly offensive conditions they were born into have a net effect on their quality of life even more than a large direct threat. Even if we can't change the conditions we live in I think it's humanising and internally valuable to hold onto this concern and honest response to pain and the world. Nothing desirable comes from unbridled servitude. Your pain and emotion is more than valid and I'm proud you still hold onto that humanity and honest independent thought

 

[Pluto]

 

[Leonard_Bangley39]

Thanks for making the thread. As I was reading it, I noticed a lot of things I do under the guise of trying to help people. "It could always be worse", "look at Tim with no house and no job", etc. I guess it comes from me assuming that when people complain it's due to a problem and I want to help them with the problem, and part of the process is downsizing the issue so it looks more manageable. In reality, sometimes people need to vent and are not necessarily looking for a solution. And if they are looking for a solution, I need to understand that minimizing the issue is not helpful nor is it appreciated. Thanks for a very enlightening post.

I feel like a big thing people don't understand is that you cannot compare pains not only due to how subjective it is, but how there are no shared attributes or means of any measurement to even begin to do so. It varies in each person inherently due to the limited amount of information we are individually able to process and then interpret, our past experiences leading to difference in contextualisation that varies pain, and our differences in personality. Some people may feel they can tolerate more pain in "worse" situations due to these conditions.

I think the best approach is to accept both the good and the bad. There are endless things to complain about, but that doesnt mean that nothing good ever happens. And theres plenty of good stuff that happens every day, but that doesnt mean all the bad shit doesnt matter. I will complain about stuff like car dependency, inflation, and the job market until the day I die, but that doesn't mean im miserable 24/7.

There's always moments like when I'm chilling on my day off on my computer ir playing a game or reading where i can just forget about everything.

 

[Burning_soul]

I think the best approach is to accept both the good and the bad. There are endless things to complain about, but that doesnt mean that nothing good ever happens. And theres plenty of good stuff that happens every day, but that doesnt mean all the bad shit doesnt matter. I will complain about stuff like car dependency, inflation, and the job market until the day I die, but that doesn't mean im miserable 24/7.

There's always moments like when I'm chilling on my day off on my computer ir playing a game or reading where i can just forget about everything.

I think that's the best way to view things!