Venting Toxic family members

[Red]

Why is it that the most toxic people project that toxicity onto innocents, claiming them to be the problem??

My sister has just "invited my son out for a drink"; texted "when are we going out drinking?" to my month ago turned 18 son, after completely ignoring his 18th with not so much as a "happy birthday". Son replies that he drinks at home atm due to covid, sister states that he "should have a life outside the house", to which my son replies he has a social life and sees his friends regularly thanks! She then kicks off, stating that she tries sooo hard to be nice to him n shouldn't bother anymore??

My son answers frankly; dude, we're in the middle of a pandemic, I got college work to do and btw I didn't hear anything from you around my actual birthday? conversation degrades to statements that he's "being toxic", must've picked it up from our "toxic household" n won't be "spoken to like a f*cking c*nt!"! To her young nephew!!

She was evicted from our house nearly a year ago for being toxic n causing trouble so has been bitching about me and has destroyed my relationship with my other sister and stepmother in the many months since - I'm fairly certain she's putting her own horrible words in my mouth as well as making up god knows what to suit her ends n make me look bad.

Anyone who really knows me knows that that's not what I'm about at all; however I'm somewhat out of the loop right now due to longstanding illness n am not around to defend myself. They all know what she's like yet still seem to believe what she says, I guess because saying or doing anything that states otherwise just makes her kick off n go nuts? She can't bear other people getting along or having fun without her and keeps trying to insert herself between me and my son - she almost succeeded once, took him for a day and bitched about me the whole time, trying to make me out to be some sort of evil overlord or some shit? - bitch is actually insane and sometimes I genuinely worry for the well-being of people around her.

I hate that she has spent her whole life doing this and she's still allowed to get away with it. I'm super pissed that she's spoken to my child that way so have sent a message asking her wtf her problem is n to stop projecting her own toxicity onto other people, then put her on mute too so I only see her stupid replies when I want to kid has muted her too; she's gonna be more pissed at being ignored than at being messaged in the first place, and m kinda feeling gleeful at the prospect of her winding herself up over this, bwahahahaaa

Shit, does that make me toxic after all??

 

[Deleted member 19654]

The person who is toxic is your sister. Lol, let her get all wound up from being ignored. It's kinda petty, but I'd do the same. Is she a narcissist?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I recommend the book It's All Your Fault by Bill Eddy. It was basically written about your sister.

 

[Red]

She actually is a blatant narcissist lol
Everyone knows it but still she gets away with it n manages to manipulate people around her n continue to kick off at everything and somehow not see any real, lasting consequences?!

Couldn't help but reply when I saw her message stating that I was the one with the problem and that I'd ruined my child's life by being his mother somehow, that he somehow has no self confidence because of me but also an uppity attitude, which seem to be conflicting statements right there.

How do you deal with this crap?

I'd usually just ignore but when she keeps trying to reel my son in n chip away at him n attempt to insert herself between us at every opportunity, how am I supposed to defend against this shit??
I've advised my son that while I wouldn't forbid him to see her (which would prolly make him more likely to see her), he should always have his guard up around her... I don't know what else I can do!

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I'd usually just ignore but when she keeps trying to reel my son in n chip away at him n attempt to insert herself between us at every opportunity, how am I supposed to defend against this shit??
I've advised my son that while I wouldn't forbid him to see her (which would prolly make him more likely to see her), he should always have his guard up around her... I don't know what else I can do!

I think you're doing good things, letting him make his own decisions and teaching him. In addition to having his guard up, maybe give him tools so he can recognize the manipulations, and how to erect and maintain boundaries against them. I recommend the manipulation tactics thread, and the books Boundaries and In Sheep's Clothing, they were both life-changing for me. The Bill Eddy book added to it by pointing out the high conflict blaming behaviors of several personality types including narcissist, antisocial, borderline, and histrionic. It's not about the issue, because conflicts about issues can be resolved; it's about the person and the fact that they seek out targets of blame and want to conquer the targets; that can't be resolved, only (sometimes) contained. Sometimes no contact is the only way to sufficiently contain it from oneself.

 

[Red]

The worrying thing is that toxic members don't seem to realise how toxic they are. So how would I know if I were toxic? After all, these toxic people keep accusing me of being toxic, so how the hell would I even know if I was??

 

[Deleted member 19654]

It's true that people don't always realise how toxic they're being. Here's a list of signs that you could be toxic:

"Am I Toxic?" 27 Signs You Are Toxic To Others.

Think you might be a toxic person? Here are 27 ways to know for sure. Plus, advice on how to stop being toxic if you think you are.

www.aconsciousrethink.com

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The worrying thing is that toxic members don't seem to realise how toxic they are. So how would I know if I were toxic? After all, these toxic people keep accusing me of being toxic, so how the hell would I even know if I was??

What @Maxtothemax shared was awesome! I would add to that to notice if they're projecting their behaviors onto you, and also the way the information is presented -- as a defense weapon or a constructive criticism? To build you up, or to knock you down as a person and make you crumble in shame and just disappear? If it's true, is it necessarily toxic when you do it? If there's truth in what they say, did they magnify it and make it hyperbolic like a caricature? If there's any truth to it, freakin' don't admit it to them, work on it on your own! Don't interpret yourself through their toxic lenses or give those lenses credence or power.

There are some great youtube videos by Dr. Les Carter about this kind of stuff, how to not let the narcissist brainwash you and get control of who you are and what you do. Just remember, your sister will never approve of you no matter what you do, just as your son was equally bad in opposite ways. It's not logical, and logic and cooperation can't be expected from her, she's made that clear for a long time I'm sure. What's really crazy making is to not accept it and keep hoping for or trying to effect a different outcome.