Tobacco is like microdossing poison

[Sslsh]

My dad chain smokes (3-4 packs a day) , alternates chewable tobacco between each smoke, and eats deep fried shit every day. So do thousands of other people here. But why is suicide frowned upon while this is accepted? Having a dog shit lifestyle knowing full well about the consequences is worse than committing suicide imho. You're killing yourself just for the eternal "tobacco kick", and not because you have a shit life that you can't fix.
Things like this makes me feel insensitive to how people like my dad would feel if I ctb coz he clearly doesn't give a shit about how I'd feel spending my time and money on his chemo, whenever he'd need it.

 

[toforigivelife]

In my case it's just frustrating that tobacco takes so long.

You make a good point. People who drink and drug, who drive around under the influence. They're not "selfish" or "weak" like those of us who'd like to take a more straightforward approach to our date with destiny.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

I smoke a little less than a pack a day and it's a lot. I really can't fathom or believe 3-4 packs a day. I have never heard of this amount. Insane!

Good luck.

 

[Flippy]

I used to smoke between 7 to 10 in a day. According to a psychiatrist--- "mental health issues caused by serious tobacco abuse.". Seriously, that's on my medical records. Proof if ever it were needed that psychiatry is a bunch of BS. Strange as nothing has changed despite zero tobacco "abuse" for over 6 months. The thing that made the big change was getting off the SSRIs. But that was a year before I quit.

Forgot to add, it's quite different here in the UK, there is a rapid move towards framing tobacco use as a mental illness. Next they will be coming for your booze. Thankfully I don't drink, and never really did. So the fun part will come when the people who chastised me for smoking are all complaining that they can't knock back their bottle of red every night after a hard day being mental health professionals.

 

[whywere]

Hi! I am 65, a reference point for this post. I had, key word there, friends that smoked up a storm and everyone that I knew that smoked heavily has died from lung cancer.

Know I know that one can get cancer without smoking, I had gall bladder cancer out of the blue, BUT it sure does not help to try and put the odds on getting cancer by smoking.

I had a person that I worked with on my summer job between college, along time ago!, who smoked 3 plus packs a day and he always told me that smoking was not going to hurt him. He was right, it killed him instead when he got cancer in both lungs.

I had another person I knew, who smoked very heavily, and one day he did not feel good and went to the doctor and he did not make it more than a month or so.

Now everyone should do as they please BUT I wish they would just stop and think of people around them who will be effected if they get cancer, COPD, heart disease..etc. It tore me a part when those folks who I knew, died from smoking and it still hurts today for me as I have no friends now and they were decent folks to be around.

Please everyone take care, do NOT get Covid-19 delta and stay healthy. I care and love each and every soul on here, and I consider all the folks here my family and friends as I have no other.

Walter

 

[Flippy]

Smoking is bad for you that's for sure. But it's a matter of what's worse for some people. Sure, we should be careful and not expose others to our smoke and that's definitely what I have done having smoked on and off for over 20 years. The thing is, tobacco contains chemicals that regulate hormones like cortisol. I don't recall if the mechanism is totally understood, however it seems that it brings cortisol levels up or down to the correct levels.

So a "good doctor" might pat themselves on the back for getting a patient to kick the cigs, but be blissfully unaware that their patient was self medicating and is now suffering with anxiety that had been controlled by an undesirable solution. All well and good, but I really shudder to think what my mother would have been like if she had been denied her cigarettes. She was bad enough and she smoked like a chimney and she loves her booze.

There is an assumption that people who smoke are "bad", but there's not the same stigma surrounding alcohol. People might say "well people who drink only harm themselves" but the truth is anyone who has lived around an alcoholic knows that's a crock of shit. It's a socially acceptable form of "self harm" the way smoking used to be. I read recently that drinking a bottle of red wine is as bad for your body as smoking 10 cigarettes.

I've known people who routinely consume that much on an evening after work to "take the edge off". Hmm that's addictive behaviour right there. Sadly the mental midgets that enthusiastically chastise me and people like me for having a relatively minor tobacco habit are blissfully unaware of the irony. No doubt as they knock back their large glass complaining about the mentally deficient idiot who thinks it may be a bad idea to quit right when they are at the peek of distress.

Also I find it strange that smoking is a big "no no", but working in a factory breathing in filth, metal fragments, silicon, truck exhaust fumes, and paint fumes is apparently perfectly acceptable? Or working in a store breathing in constant diesel fumes from busses parked outside? Because that's "noble", making others rich by damaging your body.

As Dylan Moran said "People have always wanted...things...that are bad for them."

A little indulging now and then not so bad.

Smoking 3 to 4 packs a day is on the other hand very definitely "serious tobacco abuse". Just like drinking 3 bottles of wine in 3-4 hours is serious alcohol abuse.

 

[logan]

Smoking is definitely very unhealthy and addictive.

I know some people who have managed to get rid of it by switching to vaping.
You don't have the stench anymore, much less pollutants and you can gradually reduce the nicotine content.
And you still have your ritual.

 

[Flippy]

Smoking is definitely very unhealthy and addictive.

I know some people who have managed to get rid of it by switching to vaping.
You don't have the stench anymore, much less pollutants and you can gradually reduce the nicotine content.
And you still have your ritual.

You won't get an argument from me! Alcohol has the same drawbacks, it stinks, it's unhealthy and addictive.

The problem is the complexity concerning "why" people consume tobacco or alcohol etc. I know in my mother's case it's because she was desperately unwell and since doctors didn't give too hoots, she abused me, or abused tobacco and alcohol, or all three at the same time. It was a coping mechanism, she was medicating, but because the underlying cause was never treated she needed to consume more and more.

In my case vaping is ok, but it's not a great substitute. It is for some people, but that's where the issue of complexity comes in. There are other alkaloids besides nicotine in tobacco that work in synergy to regulate cortisol levels. I suspect that despite having a vape pen, for me, and possibly others it's no substitute. I don't think I'm addicted to nicotine, I think I've been fixing an issue with cortisol, hence my tobacco habit never really (apart from once) exceeding 7-10 a day.

If I was addicted to nicotine then the vape has plenty, most of the time I forget it's there, I find it unpleasant and it makes me feel quite sick.

 

[logan]

I did not claim that this is a perfect solution.

I only said that it can help if you want to stop smoking.

Of course, it's not that easy.
But I think it's definitely easier to get rid of it than alcohol.

 

[Pluto]

But why is suicide frowned upon while this is accepted?

People like to die as slowly as possible.

 

[Flippy]

I did not claim that this is a perfect solution.

I only said that it can help if you want to stop smoking.

Of course, it's not that easy.
But I think it's definitely easier to get rid of it than alcohol.

Sorry I didn't want to give the impression I was taking issue with you personally. That was certainly not my intention.

I just have noticed this selectivity amongst certain people when it comes to things people do that are bad for them. As far as smoking is concerned it effects people with mental illness the most. Then there's this affirming the consequent, "mental illness, therefore smoking - smoking therefore mental illness".

There are so many behaviours that people engage in that are harmful and can be just as harmful as smoking. But the view seems to be; "but people like to have alcohol to unwind." Or "I like gambling, I find it exciting." Or "Boxing keeps me fit" Or "I just love skydiving" or "I really like my food", or "I like speeding when I drive, I've got a sporty car and I'm an amazing driver." ok, fine, but in my opinion it's splitting hairs, all are risky and it's often a matter of degrees.

So if someone feels extremely distressed for example, leave them be if smoking a few cigarettes helps. If (for example) a psychiatrist genuinely can't countenance that, then they should get their lazy well paid arse into gear and figure out a treatment that will genuinely help them.

The bottom line is, if someone engages in something to cope with severe distress, they need to be given a positive alternative. It's all stick and no carrot with current approaches.

 

[toforigivelife]

A big problem with nicotine addiction, especially for those who are prone to depression, is that nicotine contains or has antidepressant effects. Just one of the reasons that some have a harder time quitting than others.

 

[Flippy]

A big problem with nicotine addiction, especially for those who are prone to depression, is that nicotine contains or has antidepressant effects. Just one of the reasons that some have a harder time quitting than others.

You are quite right! Though I think that the antidepressant effect emerges as a result of it's ability to influence cortisol. So yeah, doctor's don't tend to factor in the therapeutic effects of tobacco use. I fear I sound like a pro tobacco flag waver! But honestly I'm not, I just think it's dumb to remove a "load bearing" solution and replace it with nothing! Or to berate someone for not being overly hurried to give up their crutch! People's psychological "structure" can be very finely balanced. Remove one small thing and the whole lot can disintegrate!

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

Bill Hicks be like 3-4 packs a day? F*ckin' p*ssy. I go through 3-4 lighters.

 

[toforigivelife]

You are quite right! Though I think that the antidepressant effect emerges as a result of it's ability to influence cortisol. So yeah, doctor's don't tend to factor in the therapeutic effects of tobacco use. I fear I sound like a pro tobacco flag waver! But honestly I'm not, I just think it's dumb to remove a "load bearing" solution and replace it with nothing! Or to berate someone for not being overly hurried to give up their crutch! People's psychological "structure" can be very finely balanced. Remove one small thing and the whole lot can disintegrate!

Well said. Exactly.

 

[UnemployedMD]

I have been smoking for many years. It started due to overwhelming stress and one cigarette a day become 5 and then later 10 and now I smoke 10-15 a day. While this may not be several packs a day, in today's day and age, smoking this much is considered heavy tobacco use. I feel so trapped by this miserable habit and completely agree it is likely microdosing poison. To make matters worse I've been buying them on an Indian reservation hours away from home to save money, but recently found out that these cigarettes are particularly harmful and more toxic. Yet I also know that in the depressed state I am in there is zero chance I can quit. It is such a vicious cycle once you get addicted to nicotine even if things are actually going well for you and you are happy being alive. But if you are depressed/suicidal and you get a taste of tobacco--forget it. Not to mention 90% of people will look at you as being an inconsiderate degenerate for smoking. I have become deeply ashamed of my habit over the past few months and usually try to have all my cigarette breaks in places where no one else can see me. I am sure most other tobacco users feel similarly. Nobody who smokes that much wants to. It is just something that becomes part of who you after a while and completely traps you. It is something you wouldn't understand unless you are a smoker too, but I would give up most things in my life before I give up cigarettes. Just the idea of running out of smokes gives me anxiety. It is horrible.

 

[deflationary]

As Dylan Moran said "People have always wanted...things...that are bad for them."

I love Dylan Moran!

That's all I had to say. :)

 

[StevieNixs]

My dad chain smokes (3-4 packs a day) , alternates chewable tobacco between each smoke, and eats deep fried shit every day. So do thousands of other people here. But why is suicide frowned upon while this is accepted? Having a dog shit lifestyle knowing full well about the consequences is worse than committing suicide imho. You're killing yourself just for the eternal "tobacco kick", and not because you have a shit life that you can't fix.
Things like this makes me feel insensitive to how people like my dad would feel if I ctb coz he clearly doesn't give a shit about how I'd feel spending my time and money on his chemo, whenever he'd need it.

3 to 4 packs - wow.

 

[logan]

As I said before: maybe vaping is a healthier alternative as a first step.