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If anyone can please answer these questions ASAP, I would be ever so grateful.
1. Please tell me the likely success rate of this regimen:
12 hours no eating
12 hours no drinking
STAT Dose of Meclizine HCL
OTC Cimetidine
SN
2. I cannot fail, I need to know the chances of survival with a similar regimen. I have little time to CTB and cannot afford a failure. If it's over 80% chance I'll take it.
Hi MissMisa. With respect to the Meclizine, Cimetidine and SN, I imagine you've gauged the appropriate dosis. The non consumption of solids or liquids will help to metabolize the target substances more effectively. I'm not expert in these matters, but you seem to have worked out a good regimen. I won't say I'm happy for you, not because I don't wish you to find peace, but because it saddens me that whatever is ailing you has brought you to this point. All I can say is that whatever choice you decide to take, that it will bring some level of comfort and peace.
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If anyone can please answer these questions ASAP, I would be ever so grateful.
1. Please tell me the likely success rate of this regimen:
12 hours no eating
12 hours no drinking
STAT Dose of Meclizine HCL
OTC Cimetidine
SN
2. I cannot fail, I need to know the chances of survival with a similar regimen. I have little time to CTB and cannot afford a failure. If it's over 80% chance I'll take it.
Meclizine is for motion sickness. If the SN is going to cause you to vomit, the Meclizine will probably not stop it. But not everybody vomits when using the SN.
If anyone can please answer these questions ASAP, I would be ever so grateful.
1. Please tell me the likely success rate of this regimen:
12 hours no eating
12 hours no drinking
STAT Dose of Meclizine HCL
OTC Cimetidine
SN
2. I cannot fail, I need to know the chances of survival with a similar regimen. I have little time to CTB and cannot afford a failure. If it's over 80% chance I'll take it.
Meclizine is for motion sickness. If the SN is going to cause you to vomit, the Meclizine will probably not stop it. But not everybody vomits when using the SN.
The problem is if the antiemetic you are taking is not the adecuate, it won't work (if it's for motion sickness it won't work on the right side of the brain for SN)
It is from the Stan's Guide and without it, there is a high chance you will vomit. I have read some cases that even without antiemetics they where able to ctb. Unluckily I would like to know about the percentage but there is not enought information,sorry. But sometimes, what they do is to have a spare glass with the sn solution, in case of vomiting.
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Make up 3 doses of sn, the nausea started at about 15mins when I saw it (with meto though) but as it was on empty stomach, caused hyper salivating but no actual v+
if you are sick remember that if using the sn stat dose you are theoretically taking 2 1/2 times the recommended dose to be fatal. So if you V+ half it's still enough in theory. Equally if following the stat dose requirement and you have two on stand by, you can drink another one, and another one.
Make up 3 doses of sn, the nausea started at about 15mins when I saw it (with meto though) but as it was on empty stomach, caused hyper salivating but no actual v+
if you are sick remember that if using the sn stat dose you are theoretically taking 2 1/2 times the recommended dose to be fatal. So if you V+ half it's still enough in theory. Equally if following the stat dose requirement and you have two on stand by, you can drink another one, and another one.
However, for SN, you would *not* do the step where you eat something light after completing the fast, 1 hour before taking the SN. For SN you want an empty stomach.
For the antiemetic, ideally you would order meto, but if not, could you get "Dramamine" or "Gravol", or anything that says "dimenhydrinate" ?
If not then I suppose you could go with Meclizine.
Cimetidine should be fine for the antacid part (that's effectively the same thing as Tagamet, which seems to be a common choice)
You might also want to get some Paracetamol or Ibuprofen.
However, do you want to tell us anything about yourself ?
Are you sure that nothing could be done to help your situation ?
Possible OTC antiemetics (will depend on your country) :
Anagraine (metoclopramide)
Buccastem / Nausetil (prochlorperazine)
"Dramamine" or "Gravol", or anything that says "dimenhydrinate"
Diphenhydramine eg Benadryl or Nytol
Meclizine
Peaceful pill handbook states that cannabis is an antiemetic, but if you're not used to taking it then I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
Note : As always, please note that I strongly encourage you to seek help with whatever is troubling you. With the right help things can improve. There are many sources of help if you look and reach out. Please seek assistance in any and every way possible. You alone must decide upon your actions and take full responsibility for them, and you should always favour seeking help and keeping out of harm's way.
As for Meclizine, a member here used it and passed away still. There are people that have followed the guide to a T, taken Meto and have still thrown up. It really comes down to your body chemistry in the end, and for that reason many people prepare another serving of SN in case they do throw up.
3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
I wonder if no use of antacid is the reason it took 2 hours and 45 minutes to die? The PPH says the antacid is to reduce the stomach acid to allow the SN to overwhelm the defense system.
2h 45m is normal, just about right.
As I understand it organ failure should take 2-3h -- fatalities within 1h or after 4h are a rarity.
The reason is a hemotoxic process ("bad blood") with slow hypoxia (oxygen deprivation):
Body keeps functioning, cells turn to anaerobic metabolism, die quite slowly, until organ failure. Brain and breathing continues, recovery viable. It really depends on blood oxygen levels, say 30% for 3 hours, and your body. This is affected by SN absorbed but many other personal factors. I may be wrong.
Someone could compile an explanation of a clearer timeline, common/rare things, how it feels at every stage (in simple terms), and what's happening in the body....
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3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
Thanks for this. The morphine might have made a big difference in the peacefulness I imagine. I wonder if it is that peaceful without something like morphine.
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In response to all the above. Antacid was not used as being anorexic anything passing ones lips could cause nausea. Morphine could infact have added to nausea.
There appeared to be a little confusion as hypoxia set in when unsettled but reassurance and a warm hug sorted that.
forgot to add*once pallor had set in the body became cold to the touch so was wrapped in blankets while hugged against my own body heat to allow further comfort
3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
Thanks for the info. I'm glad you were there to comfort them.
I know everyones body metabolism is different and timelines will vary but it's disheartening to hear 45 minutes to unconsciousness and 2hrs 45 mins to death compared to exit internationals timeline of 12 minutes to unconsciousness and 40 minutes to death.
Just a few additional questions.
How much Sn did they take?
Did they appear to be in much discomfort while they were conscious? It sounded like it was peaceful except for some discomfort/panic at 4pm when deciding on a laying position.
If they would have vomited would you have aborted or recommend taking another dose?
You had recommended not doing this at home. Why? (I was planning on taking SN at home where I live alone. I'm in good health and can imagine it might take me longer to unconsciousness and death. I'm not sure How I would handle it If i remained conscious for up to an hour experiencing symptoms all alone. )
I know everyones body metabolism is different and timelines will vary but it's disheartening to hear 45 minutes to unconsciousness and 2hrs 45 mins to death compared to exit internationals timeline of 12 minutes to unconsciousness and 40 minutes to death.
Exactly, its very different. But the 40 minutes might have been because of old age, or severe illness, or both. But I still wonder if the antacid would have made death come faster. It really seems like it would have based on all the research. The stomach acid was breaking down the nitrite, because the antacid was not there to neutralize the stomach acid.
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Very unique case... Also as Rdc raised SN amount is unknown, and stated she drank very slowly over several minutes
* Unconsciousness - many reported here dizziness around 7m, fainting around 15m, so unconsciousness should be around 20m?
* Time of Death - reasonable, by Stan's Guide, ER case reports.
* Exit Timeline - I think 40m to death is unrealistic and overall their timeline appears to be kinda "fastest possible".
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Thanks for the info. I'm glad you were there to comfort them.
I know everyones body metabolism is different and timelines will vary but it's disheartening to hear 45 minutes to unconsciousness and 2hrs 45 mins to death compared to exit internationals timeline of 12 minutes to unconsciousness and 40 minutes to death.
Just a few additional questions.
How much Sn did they take? 250mg per Kg
Did they appear to be in much discomfort while they were conscious? It sounded like it was peaceful except for some discomfort/panic at 4pm when deciding on a laying position. My personal opinion is yes, they were peaceful. Except as you say for a brief moment of confusion.
If they would have vomited would you have aborted or recommend taking another dose? Taken another dose 100%
You had recommended not doing this at home. Why? It's a saying that is used as a disclaimer, like as if watching a prankster jump from a roof they woukd start the stream with "don't try this at home" (I was planning on taking SN at home where I live alone. I'm in good health and can imagine it might take me longer to unconsciousness and death. I'm not sure How I would handle it If i remained conscious for up to an hour experiencing symptoms all alone. ) There were many factors that played a part in this particular case. Age, Liver problems, lack of antacid, Morphine will all have affected the outcome and timing.
3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
morphine was used for general pain relief of other non related pain NOT FOR SN. SN discomfort was treated with Meloxicam which is a 12-24 hour anti inflammatory. This was a regular drug used daily.
morphine can slow the intestines so only use if necessary for other conditions you have ore existing. Don't over complicate the science.
Diazapam 10mg was not a regularly used drug either. Given to help relax
meto 10mg tablets were used, at first just one then 3 before the sn
sn was dosed at 250mg per kg (2 1/2 x the fatal dose) it was mixed at the exact ratio included in the "stat dose" in megathread factoring in individual weight.
usual daily meds included omeprazole, prednisone, meloxicam, milk thistle. None of which except meloxicam were used this day
Thanks for the info. I'm glad you were there to comfort them.
I know everyones body metabolism is different and timelines will vary but it's disheartening to hear 45 minutes to unconsciousness and 2hrs 45 mins to death compared to exit internationals timeline of 12 minutes to unconsciousness and 40 minutes to death.
Just a few additional questions.
How much Sn did they take?
Did they appear to be in much discomfort while they were conscious? It sounded like it was peaceful except for some discomfort/panic at 4pm when deciding on a laying position.
If they would have vomited would you have aborted or recommend taking another dose?
You had recommended not doing this at home. Why? (I was planning on taking SN at home where I live alone. I'm in good health and can imagine it might take me longer to unconsciousness and death. I'm not sure How I would handle it If i remained conscious for up to an hour experiencing symptoms all alone. )
You wrote : "You had recommended not doing this at home. Why?".
He's simply saying that he is not encouraging anyone to do anything....
He's saying that you must decide upon your actions and take responsibility for them.
don't have a video but I have this. Personal experience
Have you ever seen an elderly family member pass away naturally in a hospice or from terminal illness or something similar?
I've seen quite a few people die naturally and many animals too both naturally and euthanised with N
N is certainly faster if injected directly into a vein, that I know for sure. It's instant but of course you would need assistance, a syringe driver or drip to do it that way. Ive seen N deaths where it was injected into the chest cavity and absorbed a few minutes later (animals)
SN WORKED LIKE A NATURAL DEATH IMO
when someone begins to die:
1. They will usually cease to eat or drink so unless artificially given ghe person will have empty stomach and bowels and be dehydrated.
2. pain relief is usually given if required along with Midazolam thus giving the person short term memory loss and analgesia
3. As the patient becomes hypoxic and organ failure sets in, loss of consciousness will occur.
4. This is where the body starts "practising the last breath" this can be seen as yawns or sudden gasps with periods of holding their breath inbetween. The patients by this point are still spoken to by their families etc as hearing is said to be the last sense to go.
5. The heart will slow to just a few beats a minute and the patient will make some last "reflex breaths" these can only be described as the start of a yawn that never follows through. Some muscle spasm can somtimes be seen at this point also or posturing. The patient is peri-arrest.
6.The last heart beat occurs and the patient will stop all reflex movements though in some cases like with N these reflexes can go on a little longer in that the patient may moan, gasp, twitch for a little while.
7.All reflexes diminish usually causing loss of bladder and bowel function, possible fluid coming from the mouth (may be stomach fluids or even lung fluids if patient had pneumonia or lung cancer etc,
This is how death occurs in the most natural of ways. When the body shuts down due to organ failure cased by whatever reason. It has always been peaceful with my family members who have passed away infront of ne. Equally just as peaceful; just faster to euthanise with IV N.
Someone witnessing it for the first time may think the person is not peaceful. If it wasn't then legally we woukd not be allowed to die of old age or Cancer etc,
I have full faith in that dying as naturally as possible is peaceful. The human body is smart. If it knows it's going to die you get a release of endorphins and other "feel good" hormones. Your body quite literally drugs you with the best drugs ever known to humans.
I would also like to add: I have had a few NDE's (near death experiences)
The last thing each time to go was mY hearing. Yes I got the full endorphine rush and It felt ok that I wasn't breathing. Like I didn't need it anymore. I was relaxed and didn't seem to care for anything
Disclaimer!! As written in my previous posts.. I am not and will not encourage you to try any of this!
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3:30pm SN DRANK (very slowly like a trickle speed over a few minutes)
3:45pm hyper salivating but no V+
4pm obvious weakness and pallor especially on lower extremities. Couldn't quite decide position of laying so helped into a comfortable place and spoken to etc, seemed very relaxed once reassurance was given that I was still there.
4:15pm breathing was more exaggerated but unconscious.
4:15-6pm unconscious and occasionally a whimper like that of someone dying naturally. Comfort given, settled and asleep. Reflexes diminished
6–6:15pm 10 final reflex breaths and head tilted peri arrest, no reflexes at all, bradycardia, grey skin
6:15pm Time of Death. Checked with stethascope, feeling for pulses and reflexes. All diminished
Disclaimer: This is what I observed and is not representative of everyone. Any views expressed here are solely observational and I am neither encouraging or coaxing anyone to try the same. You should like all of us seek help in any situation by calling a charity, seeing your Dr or going to the emergency room, A&E etc. Also I would like to add that the subject had liver problems and was anorexic as well as dehydrated. This can have an effect on symptoms and time like anyone, metabolism is different for all with many things to factor in. Any opinions expressed by myself are solely my own and not representative of anyone or anything else. I don't recommend you try this at home.
45 minutes is too long for me. My anxiety and SI might cause me to panic and call for help. I'm hoping taking an antacid might speed up unconsciousness?
The heart rate was increased yes. Prior to ingesting there was an obvious arrhythmia that became undetected by touch as the heart rate increased.
I think I need to elaborate on the 45minutes
within just 15 extreme fatigue was there along side the low blood pressure and pallor. Though conscious was unable to stand or anything. Upper extremities had strength bu lower none. For instance when trying to turn over, I had to help as it was just to hard to do. Once I resettled, kinda "gave in" and just stayed there. Being concious and being able to call for help are 2 different things. Unconsciousness was determined by complete limb limpness and no reactions to name calling.
mouth was open a little with a kind of short in breath and forced out like a huff. These were faster than normal and in response to hypoxia.
heart rate was faster but not to the point that It was uncomfortable.
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However, for SN, you would *not* do the step where you eat something light after completing the fast, 1 hour before taking the SN. For SN you want an empty stomach.
For the antiemetic, ideally you would order meto, but if not, could you get "Dramamine" or "Gravol", or anything that says "dimenhydrinate" ?
If not then I suppose you could go with Meclizine.
Cimetidine should be fine for the antacid part (that's effectively the same thing as Tagamet, which seems to be a common choice)
You might also want to get some Paracetamol or Ibuprofen.
However, do you want to tell us anything about yourself ?
Are you sure that nothing could be done to help your situation ?
Possible OTC antiemetics (will depend on your country) :
Anagraine (metoclopramide)
Buccastem / Nausetil (prochlorperazine)
"Dramamine" or "Gravol", or anything that says "dimenhydrinate"
Diphenhydramine eg Benadryl or Nytol
Meclizine
Peaceful pill handbook states that cannabis is an antiemetic, but if you're not used to taking it then I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
Note : As always, please note that I strongly encourage you to seek help with whatever is troubling you. With the right help things can improve. There are many sources of help if you look and reach out. Please seek assistance in any and every way possible. You alone must decide upon your actions and take full responsibility for them, and you should always favour seeking help and keeping out of harm's way.
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