Discussion Thoughts on assisted suicide?

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Hi everyone,

Do you think assisted suicide should be legalized?
What about euthanasia? Why?
And with what restrictions, if any? Are there any logical reasons to oppose supported legal death? (If a person chooses that option)

I would like to see those opinions of a pro-choice forum, and build upon my mind (if anyone truly wants to respond). Thanks so much for reading!

 

[Circles]

I feel that since society made the unnecessary programming for our parents to force children into this world without our consent and no guarantee of living a decent life in said society then society should at the very least offer the option to die. At this point I'd take a suicide booth. People need to realize life isn't always worth living. I can understand the argument for not allowing depressed individuals and instead allow only terminal ill patients such a right, but after a while when is it enough? How long must one suffer being miserable? I hate how lifers say we must try every resource as if there are any before we make that decision. Everyone should have that right to leave whenever they want.

 

[TAW122]

Absolutely for both! This is because there is too much suffering in the world and the world itself is already way overpopulated, beyond it's normal carrying capacity. As for restrictions, I believe there should be restrictions in such a way that it cannot be (easily) abused. For example, someone who is really young and doesn't have much critical thinking skills or understand the concept of death, should not be allowed to just die without question. Also, people should not be coerced into dying which could easily head into the territory of murder/homicide, hence there should be checks and balances to prevent those scenarios from occurring. In regards to design and implementation, it isn't easy and sure there is always going to be an anomaly or an unfortunate scenario where someone falls through the cracks, but to minimize it as much as possible is better than nothing at all.

 

[Roulette]

Assisted suicide is pretty sketchy if it isn't handled by a physician - you can easily fall into a dangerous area because it's based upon good faith that the tools given will guarantee a swift death. Physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia should be legalised although it boils down to how we determine who meets the criteria. At the very least, talking about suicide is imo healthy and discussions of it should be encouraged.

A lot of people would agree that the terminally ill and elderly should be given an automatic pass, but I'd push down the baseline to simply having an illness - when a condition has caused a decrease in the quality of life that is difficult to reverse. Sounds like a terminal illness, but this would push mental illness into consideration.

We do have to consider others though, primarily the family. I know that not every family is perfect, infact they can be the driving force behind all of this, but this territory tugs on emotional levels and I hope we can be generous enough to offer services such as therapy and financial security for things like funerals.

 

[MsM3talGamer]

I was forced into a crappy world I never wanted and I should be able to exit it peacefully. Especially since I have cancer now. ALL governments should legalise euthanasia. We're all gonna die one day anyway so why prolong suffering when someone has a painful disease?

Pets get put down when they're in pain and humans should have this option too.

 

[Sinbad]

Assisted suicide should be legal, everywhere. PERIOD.

I was born against my will and I have to stay alive against my will.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

I feel that since society made the unnecessary programming for our parents to force children into this world without our consent and no guarantee of living a decent life in said society then society should at the very least offer the option to die. At this point I'd take a suicide booth. People need to realize life isn't always worth living. I can understand the argument for not allowing depressed individuals and instead allow only terminal ill patients such a right, but after a while when is it enough? How long must one suffer being miserable? I hate how lifers say we must try every resource as if there are any before we make that decision. Everyone should have that right to leave whenever they want.

Thanks for responding, Circles, I really appreciate it. I've had the same thoughts in my head, especially the birthing of children, pushed by society (but perhaps it's also biological as well?). 'When is it enough? How long must one suffer being miserable?' i wonder what metrics people have to decide such a thing, especially if they are not that person themselves. Perhaps that person is 'unsound' or not mentally healthy, and that's why it may be believed that giving them permission to die would halt any chance of future recovery. But, are most, if not all people are running off of some sort of belief or opinion anyways? Doesn't that impact their decisions, sometimes permanently? Like deciding to serve one's home country do to some idea of honor and then getting killed there? 'Everyone should have the right to leave whenever they want' I can imagine that if the majority believed this, people could be at least assured they would be getting a peaceful end, if all else fails.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Absolutely for both! This is because there is too much suffering in the world and the world itself is already way overpopulated, beyond it's normal carrying capacity. As for restrictions, I believe there should be restrictions in such a way that it cannot be (easily) abused. For example, someone who is really young and doesn't have much critical thinking skills or understand the concept of death, should not be allowed to just die without question. Also, people should not be coerced into dying which could easily head into the territory of murder/homicide, hence there should be checks and balances to prevent those scenarios from occurring. In regards to design and implementation, it isn't easy and sure there is always going to be an anomaly or an unfortunate scenario where someone falls through the cracks, but to minimize it as much as possible is better than nothing at all.

Hi @thrw_a_way1221221 aka wizard (I like that name better :) ). Thanks so much for commenting, your response is very thoughtful. I asked for both assisted suicide and euthanasia because I read a comment online about how doctors shouldn't be carrying guilt about murdering somebody. Perhaps assisted suicide would be a better option for those health providers who weren't willing to kill someone else, no matter the circumstances? But veternarians are willing to put down pets, so I wonder why other health providers wouldn't be willing to do the same. Maybe to minimize any impulsive decisions, there could be something Iike a 6 month trial period to make sure people have time to think it through? and as you mentioned earlier with making sure someone really young doesn't die without fully understanding what death means, would an age limit help?

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Assisted suicide is pretty sketchy if it isn't handled by a physician - you can easily fall into a dangerous area because it's based upon good faith that the tools given will guarantee a swift death. Physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia should be legalised although it boils down to how we determine who meets the criteria. At the very least, talking about suicide is imo healthy and discussions of it should be encouraged.

A lot of people would agree that the terminally ill and elderly should be given an automatic pass, but I'd push down the baseline to simply having an illness - when a condition has caused a decrease in the quality of life that is difficult to reverse. Sounds like a terminal illness, but this would push mental illness into consideration.

We do have to consider others though, primarily the family. I know that not every family is perfect, infact they can be the driving force behind all of this, but this territory tugs on emotional levels and I hope we can be generous enough to offer services such as therapy and financial security for things like funerals.

Hi Roulette, thanks a lot for this comment, I enjoyed reading your take on my questions.

Physician-assisted suicide would be safest for assisted suicide, I agree. Thanks for the specification. 'it boils down to how we determine who meets the criteria' the criteria for who administers the assisted suicide? or for who qualifies for assisted suicide and euthanasia? Oh,
and with talking about suicide, do you mean like this website, but in person?

You mentioned those with illnesses-should only those with illnesses (including mental) be allowed to die by assisted suicide and/or euthanasia, or should others besides those with illnesses be allowed these services too?

I hope that we can be generous with services to help in the mourning process for all loved ones, including family. I was thinking that if assisted suicide and/or euthanasia was legalized, loved ones could have their final goodbyes

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

I was forced into a crappy world I never wanted and I should be able to exit it peacefully. Especially since I have cancer now. ALL governments should legalise euthanasia. We're all gonna die one day anyway so why prolong suffering when someone has a painful disease?

Pets get put down when they're in pain and humans should have this option too.

Thanks for commenting MsM3talGamer, I really appreciate your short, but genuine and strong response.

For all those who feel as if they were forced into this world (like you and me), i think that the availability of a peaceful exit would offer at least some solace to all the suffering. I wonder with those who believe that God or some other being/creator(s) put us here and our life belongs to them, and I question how their belief could ever be worth above all others, how holding it as 'true' is worth the disregard of those that don't believe their life is a gift, or belongs to someone else to hold.

Do you think just those with diseases should have access to euthanasia, or should others that don't have diseases also be able to have access to it?

I wonder that if pets are able to get put down easily, despite any religious or 'life is a gift' beliefs, why can't humans?? Maybe I'm missing nuances here, but what's different with humans to have them need to stay, while pets can get alleviated of their suffering? Is it because humans have more ability to recover? Are their lives valued more?

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Assisted suicide should be legal, everywhere. PERIOD.

I was born against my will and I have to stay alive against my will.

Hi Sinbad, thanks for posting on this thread. Should assisted suicide be legal to everyone? What about young children? And should it be allowed even despite other beliefs that people have about life and beyond, that might contradict with legalized assisted suicide?

 

[Sinbad]

Hi Sinbad, thanks for posting on this thread. Should assisted suicide be legal to everyone? What about young children? And should it be allowed even despite other beliefs that people have about life and beyond, that might contradict with legalized assisted suicide?

Assisted suicide should be legal and everyone over 18 may choose to die regardless of his or her reason.
I don't want to go all philosophical about this topic, bc i don't care anymore. Nothing will change about AS. But thanks for the Q.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Assisted suicide should be legal and everyone over 18 may choose to die regardless of his or her reason.
I don't want to go all philosophical about this topic, bc i don't care anymore. Nothing will change about AS. But thanks for the Q.

Thanks for everything you've said, Sinbad, I really appreciated reading everything. Absolutely no harm done whatsoever, I assure you :)

 

[Letmego. Please]

I have a cpn turning up any moment so will have to dash but will leave this here as something i do agree with a wish i lived there.
http://www.bioethics.net/2016/05/euthanasia-for-reasons-of-mental-health/

 

[MsM3talGamer]

Thanks for commenting MsM3talGamer, I really appreciate your short, but genuine and strong response.

For all those who feel as if they were forced into this world (like you and me), i think that the availability of a peaceful exit would offer at least some solace to all the suffering. I wonder with those who believe that God or some other being/creator(s) put us here and our life belongs to them, and I question how their belief could ever be worth above all others, how holding it as 'true' is worth the disregard of those that don't believe their life is a gift, or belongs to someone else to hold.

Do you think just those with diseases should have access to euthanasia, or should others that don't have diseases also be able to have access to it?

I wonder that if pets are able to get put down easily, despite any religious or 'life is a gift' beliefs, why can't humans?? Maybe I'm missing nuances here, but what's different with humans to have them need to stay, while pets can get alleviated of their suffering? Is it because humans have more ability to recover? Are their lives valued more?

I believe that everyone should have access to voluntary euthanasia. This life is a shitshow for some people and they should be able to quit the show whenever they want to.

As for the humans vs pets debate. It's because religion is sticking its backwards nose in all our business. Pretty much like the church is anti-abortion, they're anti-euthanasia because supposedly this life is a "gift". What lies behind it all is controlling the masses of course.

And yeah, I want to give my crap-filled "gift" back. I've had more than enough of it.

 

[Letmego. Please]

I watched that documentary that was on the beeb the other day, great programme but boy did those peeps from Final Exit look like complete wackjobs, i agree with their intentions but if that couple had turned up on my doorstep i'd have probably declined & gone my own way.

Interestingly when i did a search for the Dutch guidelines on assistive dying, either with or without the minty health option the only sites that opposed were, you guess it right.....The Catholic Church.

Oh and i got stood up by my Cpn, made her a cuppa & the only bugger that ever comes in my house didn't turn up. Poxy Nutty Police...

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

I have a cpn turning up any moment so will have to dash but will leave this here as something i do agree with a wish i lived there.
http://www.bioethics.net/2016/05/euthanasia-for-reasons-of-mental-health/

I watched that documentary that was on the beeb the other day, great programme but boy did those peeps from Final Exit look like complete wackjobs, i agree with their intentions but if that couple had turned up on my doorstep i'd have probably declined & gone my own way.

Interestingly when i did a search for the Dutch guidelines on assistive dying, either with or without the minty health option the only sites that opposed were, you guess it right.....The Catholic Church.

Oh and i got stood up by my Cpn, made her a cuppa & the only bugger that ever comes in my house didn't turn up. Poxy Nutty Police...

Thanks for the link and information, Letmego. The Dutch laws looked way more kind towards death than other countries, that's for sure. I appreciate that at least to what I've seen, so far 'The Catholic Church' hasn't controlled/changed the Dutch laws. I don't live in the Netherlands and I'm no expert on that country, but I appreciate how that one religion doesn't block those who want to die (and might have different beliefs).

Oh my, it seems like the Poxy Nutty Police need to step up their game. Don't they know it's culturally rude to stand people up in many parts of the world? Lol.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

As for the humans vs pets debate. It's because religion is sticking its backwards nose in all our business. Pretty much like the church is anti-abortion, they're anti-euthanasia because supposedly this life is a "gift". What lies behind it all is controlling the masses of course

Some people's viewpoints on this 'gift' and the need to enforce it onto others who don't agree is very controlling, I most definitely agree with you there.

 

[Funkbunny]

Hi everyone,

Do you think assisted suicide should be legalized?
What about euthanasia? Why?
And with what restrictions, if any? Are there any logical reasons to oppose supported legal death? (If a person chooses that option)

I would like to see those opinions of a pro-choice forum, and build upon my mind (if anyone truly wants to respond). Thanks so much for reading!

Great question!!

For me, there needs to be much more transparency added to the dialogue. Paliative care and medications. What are they and what are they used for? They are simply nothing more than drugs to curb the disturbing symptoms such as 'erratic behaviour', to subdue secretions, or to 'control' pain. But that's my issue. Drugs to curb the visual symptoms.

The person still suffers. Medical professionals will agree this if pushed but I've never heard any agree in a public forum.

My own view is I am all for assisted suicide or whatever other name you want to call it. I just go a little further and agree with it in cases of mental health too.

The biggest issue is how do you make sure the decision is truly the person wanting to die, that they have not been pressured?

 

[TAW122]

Hi @thrw_a_way1221221 aka wizard (I like that name better :) ). Thanks so much for commenting, your response is very thoughtful. I asked for both assisted suicide and euthanasia because I read a comment online about how doctors shouldn't be carrying guilt about murdering somebody. Perhaps assisted suicide would be a better option for those health providers who weren't willing to kill someone else, no matter the circumstances? But veternarians are willing to put down pets, so I wonder why other health providers wouldn't be willing to do the same. Maybe to minimize any impulsive decisions, there could be something Iike a 6 month trial period to make sure people have time to think it through? and as you mentioned earlier with making sure someone really young doesn't die without fully understanding what death means, would an age limit help?

Hi @Weeping Garbage Can, I'll try to answer the questions that you raised. For assisted suicide, yes that can be an alternative to doctors and nurses that aren't willing to kill other patients. The tiny caveat is when the patient can consent and wants to die, but isn't physically able to do so, owing it to their conditions. In such a case, I suppose the patient will need to be referred to a doctor that is willing to carry out the patient's death. With regards to veterinarians, I think they are saddened to see an animal suffer as well as having to put one down (I think most of them are), but also the way humans view animals as those that deserve better treatment that their human counterparts or their own. Yes, it is somewhat of a double-standard that humans have this view.

Finally, in regards to an age limit, I think that would be a great idea. I think someone who is 18 years of age, which means they are legally an adult (no longer a minor), can serve in the military in active duty (which carries a high risk of serious injury or death even), can purchase tobacco products, can vote, and other things that other adults can do; thus it would be a good starting point to make the decision of whether to continue living or die. Some people even claim that the brain doesn't fully develop until age 25 or so, which means that 25 would be the upper limit of the minimum age if possible. For children or people under the age, I suppose it will be based on their parents'/guardians' decision as they are in charge of the child's welfare.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Great question!!

For me, there needs to be much more transparency added to the dialogue. Paliative care and medications. What are they and what are they used for? They are simply nothing more than drugs to curb the disturbing symptoms such as 'erratic behaviour', to subdue secretions, or to 'control' pain. But that's my issue. Drugs to curb the visual symptoms.

The person still suffers. Medical professionals will agree this if pushed but I've never heard any agree in a public forum.

My own view is I am all for assisted suicide or whatever other name you want to call it. I just go a little further and agree with it in cases of mental health too.

The biggest issue is how do you make sure the decision is truly the person wanting to die, that they have not been pressured?

Thanks so much for the great response, Funkbunny!

Thanks for bringing up medications and palliative care, I'm not as educated on these two things. But I've read stories of psychiatric meds going wrong...i sure hope those getting the meds know the side affects and what they will actually be doing.

Do you think anyone should have access to assisted suicide, or just those with physical and mental illnesses?

That is a truly important point, perhaps some sort of system would need to be in place, like meeting with the medical providers, having 6 months period, being over a certain age, etc?

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Hi @Weeping Garbage Can, I'll try to answer the questions that you raised. For assisted suicide, yes that can be an alternative to doctors and nurses that aren't willing to kill other patients. The tiny caveat is when the patient can consent and wants to die, but isn't physically able to do so, owing it to their conditions. In such a case, I suppose the patient will need to be referred to a doctor that is willing to carry out the patient's death. With regards to veterinarians, I think they are saddened to see an animal suffer as well as having to put one down (I think most of them are), but also the way humans view animals as those that deserve better treatment that their human counterparts or their own. Yes, it is somewhat of a double-standard that humans have this view.

Finally, in regards to an age limit, I think that would be a great idea. I think someone who is 18 years of age, which means they are legally an adult (no longer a minor), can serve in the military in active duty (which carries a high risk of serious injury or death even), can purchase tobacco products, can vote, and other things that other adults can do; thus it would be a good starting point to make the decision of whether to continue living or die. Some people even claim that the brain doesn't fully develop until age 25 or so, which means that 25 would be the upper limit of the minimum age if possible. For children or people under the age, I suppose it will be based on their parents'/guardians' decision as they are in charge of the child's welfare.

You make wonderful points, you truly have thought this through and I really appreciate that you responded to my questions. That's very kind of you.

For people under the age though, I just worry if that person has parent(s) or guardian(s) who will try and pressure them to die through assisted suicide or euthanasia, or use it as a threat.

 

[Zzzzz]

Yes, absolutely both. If the patient has made their wishes clear, then it is a fulfillment of the patients desire. The patient, as well as every other adult, should have the right to decide for themselves what is best.

 

[Weeping Garbage Can]

Yes, absolutely both. If the patient has made their wishes clear, then it is a fulfillment of the patients desire. The patient, as well as every other adult, should have the right to decide for themselves what is best.

Hi Zzzzz, thanks a lot for responding.

So you think the patients should be adults? No children/minors?

An argument I've seen is that those with suicidal thoughts aren't thinking clearly, and could regret their decision to die in the future. Such an instance is survivors who jumped of the Golden Gate Bridge (i saw this in a video) and regretted ever jumping off. But, should that stop others from getting a peaceful way to die, if they wish it? Even if their thoughts aren't 'healthy'?

 

[Zzzzz]

Hi Zzzzz, thanks a lot for responding.

So you think the patients should be adults? No children/minors?

An argument I've seen is that those with suicidal thoughts aren't thinking clearly, and could regret their decision to die in the future. Such an instance is survivors who jumped of the Golden Gate Bridge (i saw this in a video) and regretted ever jumping off. But, should that stop others from getting a peaceful way to die, if they wish it? Even if their thoughts aren't 'healthy'?

Yes. I believe people have a right to choose, even if it's a mistake. Some women regret having an abortion, but that doesn't mean the choice should be prohibited. People should be educated and then allowed to make their own decisions. Most mentally ill people are fully capable of making important decisions for themselves. Just because someone has an illness, does not mean their rights and freedoms should be taken away. It is not true that suicidal people by default are not thinking clearly. There are many who would never regret the decision to die.

 

[Zzzzz]

Hi Zzzzz, thanks a lot for responding.

So you think the patients should be adults? No children/minors?

An argument I've seen is that those with suicidal thoughts aren't thinking clearly, and could regret their decision to die in the future. Such an instance is survivors who jumped of the Golden Gate Bridge (i saw this in a video) and regretted ever jumping off. But, should that stop others from getting a peaceful way to die, if they wish it? Even if their thoughts aren't 'healthy'?

I will talk about children and minors. For now I think that the right to die should only exist for adults. Nevertheless, I think that minors don't deserve to suffer or live a life that they don't want to.

 

[Trashcan]

It should be available to all adults imo. There should be some therapy to make sure it's what they want, it was their idea, it's not impulsive, etc. Also should have to be the ones to bring it up. But it should be legal. People will ctb anyway, might as well give them a peaceful and reliable way.

 

[Letmego. Please]

Thanks for the link and information, Letmego. The Dutch laws looked way more kind towards death than other countries, that's for sure. I appreciate that at least to what I've seen, so far 'The Catholic Church' hasn't controlled/changed the Dutch laws. I don't live in the Netherlands and I'm no expert on that country, but I appreciate how that one religion doesn't block those who want to die (and might have different beliefs).

Oh my, it seems like the Poxy Nutty Police need to step up their game. Don't they know it's culturally rude to stand people up in many parts of the world? Lol.

Thanks for your reply Wgc, I have been to Holland many times as its just across the north sea from me, i guess one of the reasons the Catholics get uppity about it is down to different religions, traditionally & the reason the dutch like the colour orange is that in the good old bygone days of royal families ruling europe & all the bloodshed that went with that, the dutch adopted a Protestant state religion so will always be at odds with the Catholics.

Lol was kinda pleased i didn't have to talk to her yesterday, but then it turns out one of us had the wrong day as she turned up today instead.

 

[Vegrau]

If people can have children willy nilly like a bunch irresponsible idiots. Then people should be able to die as they want to. It is only fair after we were unjustly forced into existence. Nobody have right to judge not even the invisible floating man/woman.

 

[wanttodie]

Assisted suicide should be legal, everywhere