Venting Those "Reasons to stay alive" lists annoy me soo much

[Slenderman]

I remember I used to search for suicide related things and I'd stumble upon those. They often assume that:
1. You're young.
They say you got your whole life ahead of you, you have so many dreams that need to come true, you contribute so much to the society. Like are you dead ass rn. I'm an useless member of society with no dreams or long term goals. Am I young? I mean yeah but that doesn't mean I see any hope in my future, and it's not just teenagers and people in their 20s and 30s who are suicidal, anyway. They can be any age so this really means absolutely nothing to someone who's like I don't know, 80, I don't think they usually think of that shit no more, most probably think it's too late for them to accomplish things now.
2. You have people who will miss you.
They talk about how your suicide will created catastrophe to others and they will be in so much pain. I it's good to remind someone that you genuinely care (if you do), but people writing those shits have NO IDEA how anyone's life must be like. There are people who legitimately have no one, and they know that, like no family members no friends no pets no significant others. Are those people fucking unicorns to them or something? Do they not realize they exist? So saying that to someone who really is alone in this world will probably make them want to kill themselves even mre if anything, cause it will just show how others can't really understand the shit they're going through. And besides, if you tell me I'm selfish for wanting to kill myself because others will be sad, Imma be fucking mad. Even if it's true. Cause taking your own life is no easy decision and saying that sounds like you actually believe that I don't give a fuck about anyone and I have to sympathy and no feelings, that I just wake up one day and decide Meh I'm kinda bored maybe I'll die today. Like no bro we ain't fucking robots we realize that if we have someone in our life they're gonna be hurt.
3. You give a fuck what people will think. Like yea some people care what others will have to say, some don't. Personally, I know I won't care cause I'll be dead b. Wanna call me a coward, wanna talk shit about me, wanna assume shit and pretend you knew me? You can do that, I won't be alive no more.
And then they just kinda give the most bullshit reasons, like little things a lot of people wouldn't give a shit about. I mean yea I get it if you've had a bad day or week that could make you feel better, but when you've been depressed for a long time those don't mean shit.
Its just ridiculous.

 

[Quiet_Sandwich]

I don't even have a proper word to describe those lists, they're so fucking dumb that no matter what I come up with, it'll always be an understatement.

Genius arguments like:
"Your family will be sad". Yeah, tell that to a 14yo who wants to CTB because the stepdad's an abusive rapist and the mother would rather pretend everything's okay.
"There are so many beautiful places to see". I've seen people asking for help, because they can't even afford a good quality rope to hang themself with, I'm sure they're very interested in travelling and sightseeing.

I've just looked at the first random list I could find and yeah, retarded arguments reign supreme. That particular list gave astounding 50 reasons! I'll list my "favorites", along with my commentary, since I feel like I need to vent now.

1. You have so much to live for.
Already adressed by Slenderman. What if I'm 80, you mongoloid?

2. The world will miss you once you're gone.
It couldn't give less of a fuck about you while you were still alive, but hey, it'll miss you once you're gone.

3. What would your 5-year-old self say if he or she were to find out that you'll only result to suicide?
I've asked my past self and he said "What the fuck took you so long?". Need further instructions.

4. Really. Think about it. "Heh, what a coward."
You forgot to mention that it's selfish too.

5. There will be more Star Wars films that will come out. You need to see every one of them.
Awww, ain't it just adorable. "Oh man, this movie was so great it almost made me forget about being my uncle's gimp". Who knew mundane shit is the best motivation to stay alive. Oh, and after "The Last Jedi" I'm not sure I like Star Wars anymore.

6. Your future kids will never come into existence if you die now.
Ermm ... I thought this list was supposed to provide reasons AGAINST suicide?

7. You are too beautiful to disappear.
I'm sure Quasimodo is truly grateful for this gem of wisdom.

8. Someone is always there to listen to you.
"I'm sure of it! It ain't gonna be me though, I'm too busy making shitty lists for a Christian website."

9 You really don't have the right to take away that life of yours.
Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to ask for your permission first.

10. That feeling of being alive is just wonderful.
"I'm poor, sick and lonely. Man, it feels great to be alive."

11. You are destined for greatness.
I'm on a quest to become the most abused person in existence! For the bragging rights, of course. Anyone willing to lend a hand?

12. There's a special place in hell for those who commit suicide. Do you really want to join them?
Oh man, I'll get to meet Cleopatra and Kurt Cobain? Sign me the fuck up, sailor! Also, my internal atheist has a message for you, it starts with an "F" and ends with "uck you".

13. Even if I don't know you, I love you. The world loves you. If that is not enough of a reason to convince you that you're loved, then I don't know what is.
Gee, now I feel bad for not reciprocating.

 

[inconsequential]

They, like society, assume & expect everyone to be the same.

Make your family happy.
Make more money for your boss.
Buy McDonald's for lunch.
Buy $600/month insurance because you buy McDonald's for lunch.
Get married, make a new family.
Never, ever, show that you're sad. That's weakness.

 

[Broken Chimera]

I always hated those lists. They come from mostly people who've never had it bad. People who always looked at life through rose colored glasses and probably was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I hate those types because their reasons fall apart at the first sign of trouble.

And another thing, if they cared so much, why don't they try to help someone who's going through hell instead of spewing platitudes to make them feel even worse than they already do?

 

[whyidon'tknow]

If you are like me you've probably run through the list of reasons to stay in your mind and find counter arguments for all of them.

 

[RM5998]

I don't even have a proper word to describe those lists, they're so fucking dumb that no matter what I come up with, it'll always be an understatement.

Genius arguments like:
"Your family will be sad". Yeah, tell that to a 14yo who wants to CTB because the stepdad's an abusive rapist and the mother would rather pretend everything's okay.
"There are so many beautiful places to see". I've seen people asking for help, because they can't even afford a good quality rope to hang themself with, I'm sure they're very interested in travelling and sightseeing.

I've just looked at the first random list I could find and yeah, retarded arguments reign supreme. That particular list gave astounding 50 reasons! I'll list my "favorites", along with my commentary, since I feel like I need to vent now.

1. You have so much to live for.
Already adressed by Slenderman. What if I'm 80, you mongoloid?

2. The world will miss you once you're gone.
It couldn't give less of a fuck about you while you were still alive, but hey, it'll miss you once you're gone.

3. What would your 5-year-old self say if he or she were to find out that you'll only result to suicide?
I've asked my past self and he said "What the fuck took you so long?". Need further instructions.

4. Really. Think about it. "Heh, what a coward."
You forgot to mention that it's selfish too.

5. There will be more Star Wars films that will come out. You need to see every one of them.
Awww, ain't it just adorable. "Oh man, this movie was so great it almost made me forget about being my uncle's gimp". Who knew mundane shit is the best motivation to stay alive. Oh, and after "The Last Jedi" I'm not sure I like Star Wars anymore.

6. Your future kids will never come into existence if you die now.
Ermm ... I thought this list was supposed to provide reasons AGAINST suicide?

7. You are too beautiful to disappear.
I'm sure Quasimodo is truly grateful for this gem of wisdom.

8. Someone is always there to listen to you.
"I'm sure of it! It ain't gonna be me though, I'm too busy making shitty lists for a Christian website."

9 You really don't have the right to take away that life of yours.
Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to ask for your permission first.

10. That feeling of being alive is just wonderful.
"I'm poor, sick and lonely. Man, it feels great to be alive."

11. You are destined for greatness.
I'm on a quest to become the most abused person in existence! For the bragging rights, of course. Anyone willing to lend a hand?

12. There's a special place in hell for those who commit suicide. Do you really want to join them?
Oh man, I'll get to meet Cleopatra and Kurt Cobain? Sign me the fuck up, sailor! Also, my internal atheist has a message for you, it starts with an "F" and ends with "uck you".

13. Even if I don't know you, I love you. The world loves you. If that is not enough of a reason to convince you that you're loved, then I don't know what is.
Gee, now I feel bad for not reciprocating.

Must not... get into... another Last Jedi 'discussion'...

On a more serious note, I don't think your criticisms are entirely fair. The person who tells you to live because others will miss you probably truly believes that they themselves shouldn't CTB for that reason. It carries weight for them, you can't blame them for that. Value systems are arbitrary, after all.

 

[TimeToDie]

I know a woman who is a certified Pollyanna. She feels good about herself by comparing herself to those who are worse off. Thus, she is infinitely better off than the 20,000 people who die worldwide every day due to starvation. Is this really something to feel good about? Or does that fact that 20,000 die every day from lack of food point out just how nasty & horrible the world really is? I got that starvation stat from David Benatar who uses it to show why you should not bring kids into this world.

 

[Quiet_Sandwich]

Must not... get into... another Last Jedi 'discussion'...

On a more serious note, I don't think your criticisms are entirely fair. The person who tells you to live because others will miss you probably truly believes that they themselves shouldn't CTB for that reason. It carries weight for them, you can't blame them for that. Value systems are arbitrary, after all.

(I've added that LJ bit in a later edit, I thought it'd be a sin to waste such a great opportunity to take a jab at it.)

Hmm ... you see, it's not that I think the author's being dishonest, it's just that having good intentions simply isn't good enough. It's a highlight for why things like those lists are not just misguided, but can be actively harmful as well. We're not talking about Christmas presents; it's potentially a life or death situation.
Saying something with conviction doesn't make it any more true and while I understand why someone would make an appeal to universal values; depression and suicidal episodes are not common cold, you can't apply sweeping solutions to deal with them. Also, guilt tripping and being dismissive of someone's feelings is a "great" way to solve their problems and show how much you truly care for them.
I give Reddit a lot of shit, but you know what I like? Some of the r/SuicideWatch guidelines.
"Do NOT post general "uplifting" or anti-suicide messages. Encouragement should never be offered until you've demonstrated understanding of the OP's emotions and experience, to their satisfaction, not yours!" and"Please, never make promises to our vulnerable OPs that you personally can't keep. This means not saying "it gets better" or guaranteeing any outcomes! It also means not to make any "supportive" but unverifiable assertions about the OP, i.e. telling them they're a good/strong/etc. person."
That sounds like a good starting point to me. You show a person that you genuinely care about them by trying to understand their unique situation and by valuing their own input, not by making broad statements and hoping some of it happens to be accurate. It's like taking a bucket full of diarrhea, throwing it at a wall and hoping some of it sticks, because even if it does - guess what - it's still shit. A rather crappy approach, don't you think?
It kind of makes this whole "I don't know you, but I love you and I care for your well-being" message kinda weak, when it becomes obvious that the person making this statement couldn't even be bothered to spend 15 minutes with google to find out if their "uplifting content" offers any actual encouragement or help. Hell, even the language is wrong, precisely because it's making VERY broad assumptions while using absolute statements (and as you know only shits deal in absolutes). Instead of "Your family loves you", why not start by asking if that person even has a family and if yes, then to follow it up by asking if they're fine with disclosing how close their familial relations are? You know what I mean, right?
"But Mr. Sammich, it's just a list, it's unable of asking questions and changing its content based on the answers it recieves" Well, my completely made up fella, I've a novel idea for ya - stop using the fucking lists then.

If any of this sounds aggressive towards you RM5998, please bear in mind that it wasn't my intention.

 

[AsexualBarbieBoy]

life is a precious gift

This one pisses me off the most. I agree that life is precious and that it is amazing that against all odds I got to be a conscious human but I DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS. All the excuses stem from an inability to understand that some of us aren't cut out for this. Whether we be weak, born broken or damaged by others, we simply can't handle this so-called gift. And at that point the gift becomes a burden.

 

[TAW122]

life is a precious gift

This one pisses me off the most. I agree that life is precious and that it is amazing that against all odds I got to be a conscious human but I DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS. All the excuses stem from an inability to understand that some of us aren't cut out for this. Whether we be weak, born broken or damaged by others, we simply can't handle this so-called gift. And at that point the gift becomes a burden.

Exactly. It's such an arbitrary value that the majority of people assign to it. It may be a gift, but it is a gift that is given without consent (rather, it is imposed on each human being without their say).

 

[omoidarui]

guys we have so much to live for when we're eighty-something with no independence stuck in a care home i cant wait

 

[Crystal Labeija]

The problem with these lists is that they all have an underlying assumption: death isn't an option. They'll look through every solution and rule out suicide.

I get that life is difficult. I get that jobs are stressful. I get that bills have to be paid at the end of the day. What I don't get is why suicide isn't an alternative. I don't want to have to deal with all these obligations that give me little leisure time. So, why not just kill myself? If I'm lazy for refusing to be my job's slave, then I'll just commit suicide. I mean, hey, I'm economically useless, right? I'm just a waste of oxygen and space.

 

[WinterIsComing]

I read one and said things like missing the smell of the flowers and it was like "really? How saying this is empathetic to a depressed person?"

 

[appalachian moon]

- To whoever made that... go fuck yourself. Nice use of excessive fonts and colours, really instills the message that life is sooo worthwhile. Might do yoga and sniff some essential oils after this.

 

[Quiet_Sandwich]

Holy shit, my eyes! This is easily the worst one I've ever seen.
What are the chances that there are exactly 9 reasons because they've run out of text fonts to use?

"9 reasons to live" ... fuck, this is so bad it just made it to my "reasons to kill yourself" list.

 

[WinterIsComing]

We should do a collection, make a book collecting it as sarcasm or do our own version.

Lol really.....

Pd: i didn't know there was a syndrome of overly optimistic people, the Pollyanna syndrome.

 

[Quinlor]

Sorry but for me lately I don't see reasons to live only obstacles to not ctb...

 

[Orin]

"Never give up"............ god i hate this.

When I was in college, i had a professor that said to us "just give up." (as in give up on the course we were taking). At that time i was like, ......what?!



Now i know what he means.

 

[TimeToDie]

View attachment 12120
- To whoever made that... go fuck yourself. Nice use of excessive fonts and colours, really instills the message that life is sooo worthwhile. Might do yoga and sniff some essential oils after this.

1. Yeah, you're more important than a bug.
2. Yeah, you're stronger than your 95-year-old grandma.
3. Yeah, you are more attractive than the Crypt Keeper.
4. Yeah, you're not the absolute biggest waste of time out of 7 billion people.
5. Yeah, you're not alone 'cause you met the pizza guy last night.
6. Yeah, it has to get better since it can't possible get worse, or can it?
7. Yeah, this pain is only temporary as you will certainly die eventually, you hope and pray.
8. Yeah, even I can't spin this load of shit about recovery.
9. Yeah, you should never give up when doing something as important as killing yourself.

 

[Egddios]

I don't even have a proper word to describe those lists, they're so fucking dumb that no matter what I come up with, it'll always be an understatement.

Genius arguments like:
"Your family will be sad". Yeah, tell that to a 14yo who wants to CTB because the stepdad's an abusive rapist and the mother would rather pretend everything's okay.
"There are so many beautiful places to see". I've seen people asking for help, because they can't even afford a good quality rope to hang themself with, I'm sure they're very interested in travelling and sightseeing.

I've just looked at the first random list I could find and yeah, retarded arguments reign supreme. That particular list gave astounding 50 reasons! I'll list my "favorites", along with my commentary, since I feel like I need to vent now.

1. You have so much to live for.
Already adressed by Slenderman. What if I'm 80, you mongoloid?

2. The world will miss you once you're gone.
It couldn't give less of a fuck about you while you were still alive, but hey, it'll miss you once you're gone.

3. What would your 5-year-old self say if he or she were to find out that you'll only result to suicide?
I've asked my past self and he said "What the fuck took you so long?". Need further instructions.

4. Really. Think about it. "Heh, what a coward."
You forgot to mention that it's selfish too.

5. There will be more Star Wars films that will come out. You need to see every one of them.
Awww, ain't it just adorable. "Oh man, this movie was so great it almost made me forget about being my uncle's gimp". Who knew mundane shit is the best motivation to stay alive. Oh, and after "The Last Jedi" I'm not sure I like Star Wars anymore.

6. Your future kids will never come into existence if you die now.
Ermm ... I thought this list was supposed to provide reasons AGAINST suicide?

7. You are too beautiful to disappear.
I'm sure Quasimodo is truly grateful for this gem of wisdom.

8. Someone is always there to listen to you.
"I'm sure of it! It ain't gonna be me though, I'm too busy making shitty lists for a Christian website."

9 You really don't have the right to take away that life of yours.
Oh, I'm sorry I forgot to ask for your permission first.

10. That feeling of being alive is just wonderful.
"I'm poor, sick and lonely. Man, it feels great to be alive."

11. You are destined for greatness.
I'm on a quest to become the most abused person in existence! For the bragging rights, of course. Anyone willing to lend a hand?

12. There's a special place in hell for those who commit suicide. Do you really want to join them?
Oh man, I'll get to meet Cleopatra and Kurt Cobain? Sign me the fuck up, sailor! Also, my internal atheist has a message for you, it starts with an "F" and ends with "uck you".

13. Even if I don't know you, I love you. The world loves you. If that is not enough of a reason to convince you that you're loved, then I don't know what is.
Gee, now I feel bad for not reciprocating.

This was/is everything.

Nailed it.

 

[RM5998]

(I've added that LJ bit in a later edit, I thought it'd be a sin to waste such a great opportunity to take a jab at it.)

Hmm ... you see, it's not that I think the author's being dishonest, it's just that having good intentions simply isn't good enough. It's a highlight for why things like those lists are not just misguided, but can be actively harmful as well. We're not talking about Christmas presents; it's potentially a life or death situation.
Saying something with conviction doesn't make it any more true and while I understand why someone would make an appeal to universal values; depression and suicidal episodes are not common cold, you can't apply sweeping solutions to deal with them. Also, guilt tripping and being dismissive of someone's feelings is a "great" way to solve their problems and show how much you truly care for them.
I give Reddit a lot of shit, but you know what I like? Some of the r/SuicideWatch guidelines.
"Do NOT post general "uplifting" or anti-suicide messages. Encouragement should never be offered until you've demonstrated understanding of the OP's emotions and experience, to their satisfaction, not yours!" and"Please, never make promises to our vulnerable OPs that you personally can't keep. This means not saying "it gets better" or guaranteeing any outcomes! It also means not to make any "supportive" but unverifiable assertions about the OP, i.e. telling them they're a good/strong/etc. person."
That sounds like a good starting point to me. You show a person that you genuinely care about them by trying to understand their unique situation and by valuing their own input, not by making broad statements and hoping some of it happens to be accurate. It's like taking a bucket full of diarrhea, throwing it at a wall and hoping some of it sticks, because even if it does - guess what - it's still shit. A rather crappy approach, don't you think?
It kind of makes this whole "I don't know you, but I love you and I care for your well-being" message kinda weak, when it becomes obvious that the person making this statement couldn't even be bothered to spend 15 minutes with google to find out if their "uplifting content" offers any actual encouragement or help. Hell, even the language is wrong, precisely because it's making VERY broad assumptions while using absolute statements (and as you know only shits deal in absolutes). Instead of "Your family loves you", why not start by asking if that person even has a family and if yes, then to follow it up by asking if they're fine with disclosing how close their familial relations are? You know what I mean, right?
"But Mr. Sammich, it's just a list, it's unable of asking questions and changing its content based on the answers it recieves" Well, my completely made up fella, I've a novel idea for ya - stop using the fucking lists then.

If any of this sounds aggressive towards you RM5998, please bear in mind that it wasn't my intention.

(I actually liked TLJ. That was at a time I badly wanted to be told that things could get better for me despite having fucked everything up, and thus the movie carried weight for me. Add the beautiful cinematography and excellent direction, and I had enough reasons to ignore plot holes and imperfect characterization.)

The point I was trying to make was that while the idea of a list of generic random statements is apocalyptically stupid, it's nearly impossible to argue against the sentiment driving each individual statement. That's why I thought the angle of refuting each statement doesn't address the issue, which is that non-suicidal people often won't accept that suicidal people have different value systems, and vice versa. That's why I thought it was slightly unfair - your refutations seemed to want to disprove the statements in a universal context (something that you made clear wasn't the case with your follow-up).

Turns out, TLJ was a perfect metaphor for the discussion. Wow.

 

[mamiko9399]

Oh no...I cant stand up.
When once therapist says durning multi-agency meeting to me that"You will be better,you life will change,its precious,now you not see it but its always can be improvement in your life"
My reply?
"OK then so tell me now.Did ypu will swap life with me for 5 minutes?1hr?Did you?now you are not that optimistic?huh?"
All ppl there shut up and never again said that bullshit to me.

 

[AtomicNewt]

Oh no...I cant stand up.
When once therapist says durning multi-agency meeting to me that"You will be better,you life will change,its precious,now you not see it but its always can be improvement in your life"
My reply?
"OK then so tell me now.Did ypu will swap life with me for 5 minutes?1hr?Did you?now you are not that optimistic?huh?"
All ppl there shut up and never again said that bullshit to me.

Omg this. Ive been saying for ages now, "hey, why don't you have five minutes in my head, an hour if you're feeling really masochistic, hell I could REALLY do with a break, and THEN come back and tell me why I should just be able to do 'x' or why I should never do 'y'." because you won't be able to. Wonder if they know how patronising that crap is.

 

[mamiko9399]

Omg this. Ive been saying for ages now, "hey, why don't you have five minutes in my head, an hour if you're feeling really masochistic, hell I could REALLY do with a break, and THEN come back and tell me why I should just be able to do 'x' or why I should never do 'y'." because you won't be able to. Wonder if they know how patronising that crap is.

Oh yeah... Once she trying other way...and said that "Even if seems like no hope we always should try to help"
I said "Hun..You have to remember that you cannot help and save everyone just because you want.Is such a selfish act doing something against one person just bc you have shitty duty of care.Its fair to forced someone to life?I was forced to doing all the time something againinst my will and you doing exactly the same in name of what?"

Shes thankfully not have answear for everything...

 

[bigj75]

One of the main reasons i can try to conjure for a reason to live is to reduce as much suffering in the lives of other people as possible. Do that as long as you can.

 

[ExitTheDay]

Great post, who gives a fuck about being a "productive" member of society when you're young, when you're young that's the time you take to have fun and fill your soul so that when you "Grow up" you're not a miserable shell just like the rest of the sheeple

 

[Taylored]

I hate those lists so much especially when people quote them. like telling me about a new movie coming out like that is a cure for all issues.

 

[262653]

It is no wonder we cannot find mutual understanding when true meaning severely deviates from what is literally said. So we have to take guesses if we care to decode these, like:

Someone is always there to listen to you.
"I assume that you want to be listened by sharing your suicidal thoughts and that there is always at least one person (from an undetermined set of people, might as well be the worldly human population) who will listen to you."

You are too beautiful to disappear.
"I have the right to judge whether you have or don't have to disappear by my arbitrary standards."

You are destined for greatness.
"You will achieve greatness in an undetermined area/faculty/sphere/skill/whatever (not necessarily desirable for you). (It isn't clear whether this argument is for or against suicide but we usually assume it's against, so we might add...) Therefore you shouldn't kill yourself"

There can be so many hidden assumptions and personal concerns that have to be located and addressed if we ever hope for a reasonable discussion... If we do.

 

[cornflowerblue]

View attachment 12120
- To whoever made that... go fuck yourself. Nice use of excessive fonts and colours, really instills the message that life is sooo worthwhile. Might do yoga and sniff some essential oils after this.

All of those words are meaningless if they apply equally to everybody in every situation. If everyone is beautiful, important, etc. then that also means nobody is, and that the concepts don't even exist in a meaningful way.

 

[puppy9]

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.