Venting Those "Reasons to stay alive" lists annoy me soo much

[Dead beat dad]

Sorry just got from a post yoga smoothie, what did I miss...
Oh...

 

[Quinlor]

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.

Depends on the state of mind I think...
If someone comment such act in a impulse way maibe others could see as cowardice. However if was something planning thinking in the consequences, what happens with people that love you etc. Maibe not.

 

[cornflowerblue]

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.

Some people think that suicide means you were just too scared to stay alive and took the easy way out instead of facing reality. Like if you broke your friend's vase and were so scared that you ran away from their house and stopped talking to them forever, instead of admitting what you did and dealing with the consequences.

 

[RM5998]

View attachment 12120
- To whoever made that... go fuck yourself. Nice use of excessive fonts and colours, really instills the message that life is sooo worthwhile. Might do yoga and sniff some essential oils after this.

Somehow, my brain had filtered out the existence of this one 5 seconds after I saw it. Jeez, talk about somebody who does not have any concept of how colors actually look. And is 7 in Comic Sans?

 

[262653]

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.

I understand cowardice as inclination for avoiding things you don't want (danger/harm/pain/suffering/difficulties/etc.). Not wanting to jump in front of a heading truck is an expression of cowardice. Not messing up with a person who can effortlessly make your life miserable without getting retaliation is an expression of cowardice. Not wanting to count 56247x7863 in your head is an expression of cowardice. So I would ask if there is something wrong with cowardice in the first place. We can adjust the definition to "inclination for avoiding things you don't want (danger/harm/pain/suffering/difficulties/etc.) as prerequisites for what you want (whatever that is)". But then it becomes tricky. What if potential benefits from courageous act aren't worth potential harms? Not wanting to jump in front of a heading truck might not be an expression of cowardice here if you have nothing beneficial to get from this action. But if you're suicidal and don't want physical pain, then you might consider potential benefits of dying to not be worthy of potential harm of getting serious life-compatible injuries.
Some guy insulted you in front of a working group you belong to and everyone is laughing at you. You cherish your social status but don't want to get into a verbal/fist fight and decide to avoid conflict. Would that be an expression of cowardice? Maybe that guy is twice as bigger than you. Coward or not? Or maybe you're the bigger one and can easily turn his face into a squash. Coward or not? Or maybe cowardliness would have a scale where in first case it's low-magnitude cowardice and high-magnitude in the latter...

Maybe some of them see suicidals as wanting to live but willing to avoid the struggles of life by dying. "Life is so beautiful, so wonderful, but I can't deal with its dark side anymore"; "I want to live so much but I struggle with depression and suicidal urges, and I feel like I'm losing the battle..."

 

[cornflowerblue]

I understand cowardice as inclination for avoiding things you don't want (danger/harm/pain/suffering/difficulties/etc.). Not wanting to jump in front of a heading truck is an expression of cowardice. Not messing up with a person who can effortlessly make your life miserable without getting retaliation is an expression of cowardice. Not wanting to count 56247x7863 in your head is an expression of cowardice. So I would ask if there is something wrong with cowardice in the first place. We can adjust the definition to "inclination for avoiding things you don't want (danger/harm/pain/suffering/difficulties/etc.) as prerequisites for what you want (whatever that is)". But then it becomes tricky. What if potential benefits from courageous act aren't worth potential harms? Not wanting to jump in front of a heading truck might not be an expression of cowardice here if you have nothing beneficial to get from this action. But if you're suicidal and don't want physical pain, then you might consider potential benefits of dying to not be worthy of potential harm of getting serious life-compatible injuries.
Some guy insulted you in front of a working group you belong to and everyone is laughing at you. You cherish your social status but don't want to get into a verbal/fist fight and decide to avoid conflict. Would that be an expression of cowardice? Maybe that guy is twice as bigger than you. Coward or not? Or maybe you're the bigger one and can easily turn his face into a squash. Coward or not? Or maybe cowardliness would have a scale where in first case it's low-magnitude cowardice and high-magnitude in the latter...

Maybe some of them see suicidals as wanting to live but willing to avoid the struggles of life by dying. "Life is so beautiful, so wonderful, but I can't deal with its dark side anymore"; "I want to live so much but I struggle with depression and suicidal urges, and I feel like I'm losing the battle..."

Cowardice is a strange concept anyway. It's an arbitrary judgement people make when they decide that somebody else "should have" acted a certain way.

Take away that "should" and suddenly cowardice turns into terms like having healthy boundaries, knowing your limits, being humble, not making rash choices, rationally keeping yourself safe, taking baby steps, giving yourself time and space to heal.

It's not the avoidance that's the issue, it's that somebody decided they know better than you about how you should act.

You can even flip it the other way. If their judgement was that you shouldn't do something but you did it anyway, then instead of being courageous or brave it turns into irrational, immature, impulsive, arrogant, cocky, rash.

And most people don't even have the self-awareness to realize this, they don't see the they're judging and moralizing, that they're putting their own spin on things, being arrogant by claiming to know you better than you know yourself, or even that "courageous" is a completely subjective label. They don't stop to think what they'd really do in your place. They just pat themselves on the back for being soooo insightful and morally superior.

 

[Righttodie]

Cowardice is a strange concept anyway. It's an arbitrary judgement people make when they decide that somebody else "should have" acted a certain way.

Take away that "should" and suddenly cowardice turns into terms like having healthy boundaries, knowing your limits, being humble, not making rash choices, rationally keeping yourself safe, taking baby steps, giving yourself time and space to heal.

It's not the avoidance that's the issue, it's that somebody decided they know better than you about how you should act.

You can even flip it the other way. If their judgement was that you shouldn't do something but you did it anyway, then instead of being courageous or brave it turns into irrational, immature, impulsive, arrogant, cocky, rash.

And most people don't even have the self-awareness to realize this, they don't see the they're judging and moralizing, that they're putting their own spin on things, being arrogant by claiming to know you better than you know yourself, or even that "courageous" is a completely subjective label. They don't stop to think what they'd really do in your place. They just pat themselves on the back for being soooo insightful and morally superior.

Hell fucking yeah. Couldn't have put it any better, the state of society is this.

Judging. Not understanding.

 

[puppy9]

"Never give up"............ god i hate this.

When I was in college, i had a professor that said to us "just give up." (as in give up on the course we were taking). At that time i was like, ......what?!



Now i know what he means.

There is one more quote that I loath so much.
"Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem."

 

[DreamCatcher]

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.

I think because facing pain and anguish like a muppet for your entire life is considered "Courage"

People would rather you be one of those inflatable punching bags that keeps popping back up after each hit ready for another swat from life rather than finding peace and calling it quits.

The real courage is making your own way and choosing your own time. They are too afraid to do that themselves, so they try to scare and guilt others into staying and suffering too.

One of the main reasons i can try to conjure for a reason to live is to reduce as much suffering in the lives of other people as possible. Do that as long as you can.

This is pretty much the only reason. But even with that, anyone who truly cared about me would be okay if I left because the pain was too great. Sure they might not understand, but I can't make them understand, and I'm not sticking around any longer than I choose to because of that.

A short list of real reasons:

1. Life won't get better, in fact it'll probably get worse over time until you can (MAYBE?) retire from a wage slave job and have a heart attack two days later. Enjoy your well earned retirement!

2. You've had a life, but you can let it go. It's okay. It's yours to do with as you choose

3. Nobody will miss you for long, people won't remember you at all in a decade or two no matter how much they cared. Just go and find peace

4. True courage is taking care of yourself, and deciding for yourself when it's your time

5. If someone isn't willing to pay me for living, then they don't have a say in the matter. Give me enough to cover food and bills without question and I'll consider staying

6. Cake is good, but absolute peace is better. (All of the "So much to live for")

7. The world doesn't love you, the world doesn't care. If it did it would find ways to actually help people. See #5

8. Individuals that actually care about you will just be happy you're not in pain anymore

9. No one will judge you for leaving early, and if they do it won't matter anyway!

10. There isn't a penalty for dying, if your soul goes on or it's just oblivion, either way you're not in pain anymore.

 

[Quinlor]

There is one more quote that I loath so much.
"Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem."

Yeah my therapist always says this to me too

 

[mpti]

"Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem."

Lol I've always loved this quote because it just defeats itself. Life is our temporary problem, and suicide is the permanent and 100% effective solution.

I am just tired of living and lack interest in it, and I wish I could tell anyone that without risking hospitalization.

 

[Righttodie]

There is one more quote that I loath so much.
"Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem."

I wish it was temporary. But their bullshìt quotes stick.

I remember I used to search for suicide related things and I'd stumble upon those. They often assume that:
1. You're young.
They say you got your whole life ahead of you, you have so many dreams that need to come true, you contribute so much to the society. Like are you dead ass rn. I'm an useless member of society with no dreams or long term goals. Am I young? I mean yeah but that doesn't mean I see any hope in my future, and it's not just teenagers and people in their 20s and 30s who are suicidal, anyway. They can be any age so this really means absolutely nothing to someone who's like I don't know, 80, I don't think they usually think of that shit no more, most probably think it's too late for them to accomplish things now.
2. You have people who will miss you.
They talk about how your suicide will created catastrophe to others and they will be in so much pain. I it's good to remind someone that you genuinely care (if you do), but people writing those shits have NO IDEA how anyone's life must be like. There are people who legitimately have no one, and they know that, like no family members no friends no pets no significant others. Are those people fucking unicorns to them or something? Do they not realize they exist? So saying that to someone who really is alone in this world will probably make them want to kill themselves even mre if anything, cause it will just show how others can't really understand the shit they're going through. And besides, if you tell me I'm selfish for wanting to kill myself because others will be sad, Imma be fucking mad. Even if it's true. Cause taking your own life is no easy decision and saying that sounds like you actually believe that I don't give a fuck about anyone and I have to sympathy and no feelings, that I just wake up one day and decide Meh I'm kinda bored maybe I'll die today. Like no bro we ain't fucking robots we realize that if we have someone in our life they're gonna be hurt.
3. You give a fuck what people will think. Like yea some people care what others will have to say, some don't. Personally, I know I won't care cause I'll be dead b. Wanna call me a coward, wanna talk shit about me, wanna assume shit and pretend you knew me? You can do that, I won't be alive no more.
And then they just kinda give the most bullshit reasons, like little things a lot of people wouldn't give a shit about. I mean yea I get it if you've had a bad day or week that could make you feel better, but when you've been depressed for a long time those don't mean shit.
Its just ridiculous.

Yes they are terrible and just made for the sake of it and not to actually do anything.

I can appreciate the effort to try to do something, but it ain't gonna do any good to tell someone to snap out of it because someone in Africa is starving.

The thing about the Human brain is that its experiences are relative, so what if feels during a painful event is going to be determined by its past experiences which it uses as a reference point.
So losing a pen may Hurt someone more than it Hurt another person with a similar experience or one that may generally be more traumatizing (death, sexual abuse, violence).

Many more factors come in to play like genes and so on.

In a nutshell, Human experience is relative. Invalidating someone's emotions and telling them that they really are not suffering if someone in Africa is starving is a recipe for disaster.
This is all too prevalent though in society, to invalidate emotions and be ignorant.

My suggestion would be to keep the list to yourself unless you know how to truly help and you are going to take the time to truly understand what the person is suffering from, and not be misguided and rigid enough to not listen.

 

[Fr2]

What if we'd collectively create a response list, as in their item -> our response? Each one of us (who wants to, of course) gives his/her reaction, thoughts in response to a given item. And from that collection of responses to try to synthetize an efficient, perceivable by the "normal average people", information. To create something strong that could make them snap out of the limitedness of their angle?

 

[whyidon'tknow]

"People will miss you"

Yeah people will miss the person I should have been too, instead they get me

 

[Righttodie]

What if we'd collectively create a response list, as in their item -> our response? Each one of us (who wants to, of course) gives his/her reaction, thoughts in response to a given item. And from that collection of responses to try to synthetize an efficient, perceivable by the "normal average people", information. To make something strong that could make them snap out of the limitedness of their angle?

The thing is that people believe what they want to and can understand.
So it might just be futile to push it ahead to others who aren't familiar with the concepts of mental health like we are

Countering anyone who has ideas like "Smile. Someone is starving, you at least have food" may be beyond my capacity

Unless we are talking about bringing ideas to the table when it comes to discussing it with open minded and critical thinking individuals

 

[Fr2]

The thing is that people believe what they want to and can understand.
So it might just be futile to push it ahead to others who aren't familiar with the concepts of mental health like we are

That's why I said "perceivable". I know what kind of challenge that is. But it's worth the efforts, in my opinion. We vent here anyway, why not channel that?

 

[Righttodie]

That's why I said "perceivable". I know what kind of challenge that is. But it's worth the efforts, in my opinion. We vent here anyway, why not channel that?

Sure.

Anything that challenges misconceptions.

This is mine(can be used to combat any point in any list) :

It's not a choice. You never have control over the pain you suffer from.
It's like a terminal illness.
The pain, over too much time and enough intensity makes parts of your brain seek an end or am escape from it all.

This pushes you to suicide. Not a choice, it's an illness, it's a suffering.

 

[RM5998]

What if we'd collectively create a response list, as in their item -> our response? Each one of us (who wants to, of course) gives his/her reaction, thoughts in response to a given item. And from that collection of responses to try to synthetize an efficient, perceivable by the "normal average people", information. To create something strong that could make them snap out of the limitedness of their angle?

Here's something I thought up, made to sound catchy:
If we have the freedom to ruin our lives, why not give us the freedom to end it?
Do you think it'll sell?

 

[Fr2]

For something to sell, it would have to have a certain taste about it. It would have to somehow subtly validate their position (just saying the opposite to what one says does nothing but raises their mental guard), and then from that point to lead/evolve the subject into our position. Instead of making it a debate, to make it an evolution of perspective.
An obvious validation of their position is a strong No, because they wouldn't then get over it. Too comfortable.
Like i said, a challenge this one.

 

[been_there]

Countering anyone who has ideas like "Smile. Someone is starving, you at least have food" may be beyond my capacity.

The correct counter to this one is Fuck Off.

 

[stbdchick]

"Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem."

I've always hated that one.

Why would I want a temporary solution?

And how do you know the problem is temporary?
I think the problem with these lists is a person who really feels that way can say that shit, and mean it honestly. However, they're completely oblivious to the notion that someone else can feel differently.

It's a complete and utter lack of empathy and inability to listen.

It basically comes down to, "Don't kill yourself because my life is good!"

Well, OK, I won't kill you then.

 

[RM5998]

I've always hated that one.

Why would I want a temporary solution?

IKR? I've always compared it to a bunch of random stuff breaking - laptop screen, air conditioning, headphones, and clutch plates. Why would you want your mechanic to give you a temporary solution?

Also, there seems to be the tacit assumption that life is permanent. Which is pretty sad, since it indicates that these pro-lifers are in for a rude shock.

 

[Cheezmam]

What I see happening is going to rock my family's world. But, it is better than if I live.

I am afraid we are headed towards bankruptcy. My kids are young adults. I would be forced to cut them off. They would get no help. It would be hell watching them struggle and not be allowed to help.

But, I have a lot of life insurance. I hope they understand.

 

[not_a_robot]

I know a woman who is a certified Pollyanna. She feels good about herself by comparing herself to those who are worse off. Thus, she is infinitely better off than the 20,000 people who die worldwide every day due to starvation. Is this really something to feel good about? Or does that fact that 20,000 die every day from lack of food point out just how nasty & horrible the world really is? I got that starvation stat from David Benatar who uses it to show why you should not bring kids into this world.

Lol. I spend a lot of time discussing the child-free lifestyle and anti-natalism. The breeders always try to shame us into breeding by telling us we have "lost at the game of life" because breeder genes will live on but childfree genes die out.
How do you think their kids would feel to know Mom and Dad just had them to serve as poker-chips in some fucked up game of genetic competition with a bunch of strangers on the internet? That it was all just a need to fling as much DNA into the planet as possible?

 

[xxsuicidalboyxx]

i used to look at those lists, but they only made me feel worse.

 

[RM5998]

I know a woman who is a certified Pollyanna. She feels good about herself by comparing herself to those who are worse off. Thus, she is infinitely better off than the 20,000 people who die worldwide every day due to starvation. Is this really something to feel good about? Or does that fact that 20,000 die every day from lack of food point out just how nasty & horrible the world really is? I got that starvation stat from David Benatar who uses it to show why you should not bring kids into this world.

Well, most Indian parents feel proud of their kids as if they were property and use them as a way to feel good about themselves. And they compare their children just like they compare their cars and houses, for the exact same reason.

Lol. I spend a lot of time discussing the child-free lifestyle and anti-natalism. The breeders always try to shame us into breeding by telling us we have "lost at the game of life" because breeder genes will live on but childfree genes die out.
How do you think their kids would feel to know Mom and Dad just had them to serve as poker-chips in some fucked up game of genetic competition with a bunch of strangers on the internet? That is was all just a need to fling as much DNA into the planet as possible?

Well, the people who don't like the idea of breeding will opt out again, ensuring that the breeders get to continuously pass down their opinions. Seems like a good deal, until the point one group starts to think that its opinion is right.

 

[usernameNotFound]

I can forgive most of these. What REALLY makes me wanna punch faces is when they say "don't be so selfish".
Also, one thing someone said that did kind of make me feel better was "you have potential". But it doesn't mean my rights to take my life should be withheld from me.

 

[MAIO]

I remember I used to search for suicide related things and I'd stumble upon those. They often assume that:
1. You're young.
They say you got your whole life ahead of you, you have so many dreams that need to come true, you contribute so much to the society. Like are you dead ass rn. I'm an useless member of society with no dreams or long term goals. Am I young? I mean yeah but that doesn't mean I see any hope in my future, and it's not just teenagers and people in their 20s and 30s who are suicidal, anyway. They can be any age so this really means absolutely nothing to someone who's like I don't know, 80, I don't think they usually think of that shit no more, most probably think it's too late for them to accomplish things now.
2. You have people who will miss you.
They talk about how your suicide will created catastrophe to others and they will be in so much pain. I it's good to remind someone that you genuinely care (if you do), but people writing those shits have NO IDEA how anyone's life must be like. There are people who legitimately have no one, and they know that, like no family members no friends no pets no significant others. Are those people fucking unicorns to them or something? Do they not realize they exist? So saying that to someone who really is alone in this world will probably make them want to kill themselves even mre if anything, cause it will just show how others can't really understand the shit they're going through. And besides, if you tell me I'm selfish for wanting to kill myself because others will be sad, Imma be fucking mad. Even if it's true. Cause taking your own life is no easy decision and saying that sounds like you actually believe that I don't give a fuck about anyone and I have to sympathy and no feelings, that I just wake up one day and decide Meh I'm kinda bored maybe I'll die today. Like no bro we ain't fucking robots we realize that if we have someone in our life they're gonna be hurt.
3. You give a fuck what people will think. Like yea some people care what others will have to say, some don't. Personally, I know I won't care cause I'll be dead b. Wanna call me a coward, wanna talk shit about me, wanna assume shit and pretend you knew me? You can do that, I won't be alive no more.
And then they just kinda give the most bullshit reasons, like little things a lot of people wouldn't give a shit about. I mean yea I get it if you've had a bad day or week that could make you feel better, but when you've been depressed for a long time those don't mean shit.
Its just ridiculous.

There is no life is Worth living fact, and we don't even know what death is. Yet, those who say they know what happens after death often claim you go to eternal paradise forever, and are entirely against suicide. It's ludicrous. As far as we can tell, humans are animals that developed by chance in a vast universe, dust in the wind. In the grand scheme of things we are meaningless, there is no sun revolving around us, no great, fantastic value. Suicide goes against their absurd world view.

Guys, why they call the act of suicide as cowardice? I just can't understand this, because my aunt told me that.

It's some weird lense, that views life as always worth it, that you accept your life is worth it, you are actually killing yourself due to being afraid to face whatever your problems are, etc. As every anti-choice argument if you reject the notion that life is always worth it utterly falls apart. In order to kill yourself, you have to overpower SI the strongest instinct and face the great unknown death herself. If your aunt cares so much about human life why isn't she just eating bread and water/giving all her money to charity to keep those children in the most need from starving to death. She could literally be saving so many lives, but she cares more about watching tv. I could go on and on.

 

[been_there]

What REALLY makes me wanna punch faces is when they say "don't be so selfish"

Yes. Bullying AND gaslighting AND victim blaming AND inconsiderate AND, indeed, selfish. All in four words, usually from someone close who's part of the problem. There's a lot of that shit about unfortunately. Positively encouraged in society, good apex predator behaviour.

 

[262653]

Countering anyone who has ideas like "Smile. Someone is starving, you at least have food" may be beyond my capacity.

I've found that my amusement about the starving kids argument has strong positive correlation with the amount of thought I'm giving it so far... Ok, maybe that's not entirely correct... Anyway, it seems there are often hidden assumptions lurking in the shadow of the literal meaning.

When starving african kids are mentioned, what isn't mentioned? That these starving kids might not have suicidal ideation. (If they would, then the whole argument wouldn't sound convincing anymore.) Or that the situation is assessed from single perspective (hunger) ignoring the whole picture.
"They have it worse and don't think about suicide, so neither should you." Sounds closer to what actually is being said.
And it begs for a question: Why should I change my position because of someone's outlook on one's life is different from mine? Why should my outlook on life be adapted/fit to someone's else? Or vise versa?
I could say as well. "I think of suicide and they have it worse, so they should think about suicide too."

And these hidden assumptions are ingrained in everyday language. No wonder we have hard time understanding each other.