Venting This place is pro-choice for all ages

[Mr2005]

^
And if they are everything you say they are have you spared a thought for how that must be? I can't speak for all of them but I 'm just trying to stop anyone else becoming me or you'll be having exactly the same conversation in years to come from this side of the fence

 

[Schopenhauer]

If I could talk to teenage me, circa 1999, I'd tell him to kill himself ASAP. No use hanging around.

 

[Mr2005]

^
What an absolute waste of a time machine

 

[Schopenhauer]

^
What an absolute waste of a time machine

Not necessarily a time machine, it could be tachyons traveling back in time, delivering information.

But maybe I should talk to 2009-me and tell him to invest everything into Bitcoins. Literally everything. 8 years later I'd be a multimillionaire.

 

[Mr2005]

That's a much better idea

 

[millefeui]

Not necessarily a time machine, it could be tachyons traveling back in time, delivering information.

But maybe I should talk to 2009-me and tell him to invest everything into Bitcoins. Literally everything. 8 years later I'd be a multimillionaire.

I would tell my 18 years old self to just do it. Crazy people like me only get crazier with time, there is no coming back.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I would tell my 18 years old self to just do it. Crazy people like me only get crazier with time, there is no coming back.

My personal experience is the same. It wasn't worth it.

 

[onewayroad]

And who decides what is "morally correct"? You? A panel of experts? A health care provider?

I've my reasons for wanting to ctb, my suffering is real, even if people like you don't think so. I don't care whether said suffering is greater or lesser than that of some platonic ideal of what a suicidal person should be.

Sorry, I think I may have been unclear. Put it this way. When do you think it is morally wrong to kill somebody?

 

[Schopenhauer]

Sorry, I think I may have been unclear. Put it this way. When do you think it is morally wrong to kill somebody?

To kill somebody else? Except for self-defense, it's always morally wrong to kill another person.
To kill oneself there's no question of morality, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Mr2005]

I would tell my 18 years old self to just do it. Crazy people like me only get crazier with time, there is no coming back.

Again why go to the trouble of time travel only to do that. Is it so 'you ' don't have to do it. Passing off the responsibility to yourself lol, how weird

 

[millefeui]

Again why go to the trouble of time travel only to do that. Is it so 'you ' don't have to do it. Passing off the responsibility to yourself lol, how weird

In all honesty, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Again why go to the trouble of time travel only to do that. Is it so 'you ' don't have to do it. Passing off the responsibility to yourself lol, how weird

The point is that we wouldn't have to live through the intervening years. We would cease to exist immediately.

Nevermind the potential paradoxes, of course. Assume logically consistent time travel:
http://www.aleph.se/Nada/Game/Fukuyama/technology.html#time

 

[Mr2005]

How did it get on to time travel anyway? You seem to know a bit about it

 

[Schopenhauer]

How did it get on to time travel anyway? You seem to know a bit about it

I introduced the theme, saying that I'd like to go back in time and tell my younger self to ctb ASAP.

I like the theoretical aspects of time travel, but not a deep enough understanding of the underlying physics. But who doesn't like studying closed timelike curves in general relativity?
https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.08334

 

[Trashcan]

Yeah they probably are. I wasn't ever talking about here specifically although here is going to get more like that as people get wind of it

Can see were you're coming from, but still disagree. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[onewayroad]

To kill somebody else? Except for self-defense, it's always morally wrong to kill another person.
To kill oneself there's no question of morality, as far as I'm concerned.

Ahh interesting! This is where we differ.

I think there are circumstances other than self defense where it is ok to kill another person. For example when a person is in chronic untreatable pain and wants to die but physically cannot do it themselves. Or if that person is Hitler. If the net suffering of the universe decreases with a death, then it is right. If the net suffering increases, it is wrong.

And as for killing oneself, I see myself as a person no different to the next who contributes to the net suffering, net happiness, etc. of the universe. So the same rules apply to my death as to the death of another. The difference is that it is my mind and my body, and only I know how much I am suffering so only I can make that decision. And I should have the right to, because it is my life.

I also want to apologize again that you thought I was belittling your suffering. That was absolutely not my intention at all. I do not think you have to reach some 'level' of suffering to justify suicide. I only think that in most instances (but not all) the suffering should be incurable. Because you may also be killing your future self who wants to live.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Can see were you're coming from, but still disagree. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm being deliberately obtuse here, but did you know that two rational agents cannot agree to disagree?

Here's a very rigorous proof: http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/deceive.pdf

Robert Aumann, who first proved this result (hence the eponymous Aumann's Agreement Theorem) even got the 2005 Economics Nobel Prize.

Therefore, one of you is a non-Bayesian agent. QED. :p

 

[millefeui]

I'm being deliberately obtuse here, but did you know that two rational agents cannot agree to disagree?

Here's a very rigorous proof: http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/deceive.pdf

Robert Aumann, who first proved this result (hence the eponymous Aumann's Agreement Theorem) even got the 2005 Economics Nobel Prize.

Therefore, one of you is a non-Bayesian agent. QED. :p

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Mr2005]

2005 eh. I'm going back to claim that one ;)

 

[Schopenhauer]

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

I'm either more meta-rational than you, or this disagreement is ipso facto dishonest :p

https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/agreestoc.pdf

 

[RM5998]

Yeah, I come here to escape the stressors of college life, and people are discussing solutions to the equations of general relativity and what seems like first order logic. Why is the internet like this?

But who doesn't like studying closed timelike curves in general relativity?
https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.08334

Anyone who has to study that for an exam. You should look at the physics students here who take the elective on the theories of relativity. During the paper, it looked like the devil came into the hall to enjoy their torment.

I'm being deliberately obtuse here, but did you know that two rational agents cannot agree to disagree?

Here's a very rigorous proof: http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/deceive.pdf

Robert Aumann, who first proved this result (hence the eponymous Aumann's Agreement Theorem) even got the 2005 Economics Nobel Prize.

You'd think the general principle behind Socratic dialogue would have been proven before, but nope.

 

[fuckthis]

I'm not sure why some of you are acting as if the younger people don't already realize that suicide is a last resort, they know they'll die. I don't really think it's fair to disregard a person's feelings and thoughts of suicide just because of their age. I don't do it for attention and if I did I'd be a lot more manipulative to get my own way. I just like the conversations on here because I can relate to a lot of them.

It is annoying when people try to stop me in regards to committing because it generally just makes my life even harder. I can't do a lot of the methods on here other than the one that involved SN. But someone was able to intercept my primperan and so now I'll probably just get drunk and jump. Because of this, I now have a paranoid mother which is extra weight on my end. I've had long enough to think about it carefully and at this point it isn't about how "there's still a chance" because the world is full of shitty people. It doesn't matter how you can change into a better person when those around you are still the same. I'm not going to blame my misfortune and point fingers but death is inevitable and at the end of the day if I feel should just kill myself then so be it.

Whenever people have "cared" in my life they make stupid decisions because the idea of suicide freaks them out and so they'll do whatever it is to keep me alive, but they do not realize that they only make it harder. It's as if I'm on life support and they're only keeping me alive because "suicide bad". I'd be better off dead and I know this. This isn't a rough patch or a small problem, this has been my life and I've always thought like this. To say that I am too young or aren't mature enough is a kick in the face to be honest, because you're only telling me to prolong the pain.

 

[Roulette]

Everyone has the right to information. If a teenager wants advice to ctb, then so be it. Personally i bank on the fact that they'll hopefully stray away from suicide for a few years because the reality of ending your own life is confronting and scary. It might be the only way to give them perspective rather than denying and invalidating them.

Misinformation still exists in society. Don't want the young ones thinking slitting your own wrists is a clean cut (lol) method, or taking a bunch of your parents prescription pills is a good way to go, etc. Everyone deserves the correct information to choose how they go about things.

 

[RM5998]

Everyone has the right to information. If a teenager wants advice to ctb, then so be it. Personally i bank on the fact that they'll hopefully stray away from suicide for a few years because the reality of ending your own life is confronting and scary. It might be the only way to give them perspective rather than denying and invalidating them.

Misinformation still exists in society. Don't want the young ones thinking slitting your own wrists is a clean cut (lol) method, or taking a bunch of your parents prescription pills is a good way to go, etc. Everyone deserves the correct information to choose how they go about things.

My views on my eventual suicide have remained roughly the same over the course of the last 8 years (pretty much one of the only things that hasn't changed), since I was 12. They're valid to me, and the nature of the subject make any view I have on the subject sound (as long as the views only deal with me).

I'm here now because I'm scared (another constant over the past 8 years), but that hasn't made the decision to stay a good one. It's only been more and more pain, misery and loneliness, with the specter of mediocrity always standing behind. I regret every single time I've had a rope and not used it to hang myself, now that I know that partial suspension is a technique that exists. I get that you're not opposing freely available information, but that mindset of wanting teenagers to stray from suicide to gain 'perspective' is in and of itself an invalidation of their mental abilities and their right as conscious entities to make decisions for themselves.

 

[Schopenhauer]

On a more serious note, let me elaborate a little on this theme.

The only kind of suicide I'm prima facie against is a hasty, impulsive one.

Anyone, teen or adult, should consider their decision carefully. Take at least a month or two as you ponder and weight the arguments carefully. You don't have to prove the correctness of your choice to anyone else, but you do owe it to yourself.

Teens are more prone to impulsive actions, thus by the criterion outlined above they ought to be more careful before acting. However, this is only a iuris tantum assumption. A teenager who has taken his time to reach his decision is fully entitled to seek oblivion.

 

[millefeui]

Everyone has the right to information. If a teenager wants advice to ctb, then so be it. Personally i bank on the fact that they'll hopefully stray away from suicide for a few years because the reality of ending your own life is confronting and scary. It might be the only way to give them perspective rather than denying and invalidating them.

Misinformation still exists in society. Don't want the young ones thinking slitting your own wrists is a clean cut (lol) method, or taking a bunch of your parents prescription pills is a good way to go, etc. Everyone deserves the correct information to choose how they go about things.

The reality of ending your life is the same no matter how old you are. The interpretation of it might change ever so slightly, but at the end of the day... It is the end. The final choice you make. Chances are we don't get a chance to regret it later, even if we wanted to.

I was more intelligent and mature than a lot of adults I knew when I was a teenager. Likewise, I am sure there are teenagers who likely have perspectives on life and existence that I don't, despite the fact I will be 30 in a few years. I think life experiences are a lot more valuable than the number of days you have lived. As such, if a 14 years old want my opinion and advice on suicide, I will give it to them. I will never openly encourage anyone, it doesn't matter if they are 14, 41 or 85 - But it is only fair to give them a chance to make a choice by themselves.

 

[Roulette]

My views on my eventual suicide have remained roughly the same over the course of the last 8 years (pretty much one of the only things that hasn't changed), since I was 12. They're valid to me, and the nature of the subject make any view I have on the subject sound (as long as the views only deal with me).

I'm here now because I'm scared (another constant over the past 8 years), but that hasn't made the decision to stay a good one. It's only been more and more pain, misery and loneliness, with the specter of mediocrity always standing behind. I regret every single time I've had a rope and not used it to hang myself, now that I know that partial suspension is a technique that exists. I get that you're not opposing freely available information, but that mindset of wanting teenagers to stray from suicide to gain 'perspective' is in and of itself an invalidation of their mental abilities and their right as conscious entities to make decisions for themselves.

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. It was wrong to add that mindset. They shouldn't be treated any less from adults.

 

[Dog Food]

I completely agree. It's disgusting how suicidal teenagers are treated like their pain doesn't matter, especially when many here, myself included, wish they'd killed themselves as a kid. I feel like teenagers are constantly invalidated anyway, told their opinions don't matter, and if you're trying to reduce rates of teen suicide, adding to that is not the best method.

Sure, a teen who commits suicide might not get to experience adult life, but can anyone of us here honestly say that adult life has been great?

 

[Trashcan]

I completely agree. It's disgusting how suicidal teenagers are treated like their pain doesn't matter, especially when many here, myself included, wish they'd killed themselves as a kid. I feel like teenagers are constantly invalidated anyway, told their opinions don't matter, and if you're trying to reduce rates of teen suicide, adding to that is not the best method.

Sure, a teen who commits suicide might not get to experience adult life, but can anyone of us here honestly say that adult life has been great?

THIS. If you want to reduce suicide rates in teens, invalidating them is not a good step!

They're also not missing out on anything good if they don't live to adulthood. I'm so jealous of people who die under 18.

 

[RM5998]

Sure, a teen who commits suicide might not get to experience adult life, but can anyone of us here honestly say that adult life has been great?

Need to put that on a t-shirt. Not that most people have the ability to process it, but still.