Method Thiopental (and other barbiturates) used rectally

[rotciv]

Some interesting files/information for anyone considering using substances rectally.

Non-oral administration of killing drugs: rectal, feeding tubes and ostomies.

drugs-forum (Rectal administration of Nembutal)

Rectal and Transdermal Routes of Drug Administration

I'm thinking of using 20 grams of Thiopental rectally, as the intravenous route in a peripheral vein would be a very risky and painful procedure, mainly due to the alkalinity of Thiopental (PH10) and the sensibility of the peripheral veins injected as a bolus.

I can dissolve 1 gram of Thiopental in 1 ml of water, which would make a total solution of 30 ml.

In the file below, a nurse CBT with 6.5g of Thiopental rectally in 1969 (old as hell). That says it causes death between 5 to 10 minutes.

Thoughts?

 

[rotciv]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/rectal-drug-administration

"Methohexital, thiopental, ketamine, and midazolam have all been investigated as agents for rectal induction. For unpremedicated children, the induction doses are 30 mg/kg thiopental and methohexital (...)"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/thiopental#:~:text=The%20recommended%20induction%20dose%20of%20thiopental%20in%20healthy%2C%20nonpremedicated%20children,to%204%20mg%2Fkg).&text=Debilitated%20or%20severely%20ill%20patients%2C%20those%20that%20are%20hypovolemic%2C%20and,dose%20for%20induction%20of%20anesthesia.

"The recommended induction dose of thiopental in healthy, nonpremedicated children is 5 to 6 mg/kg (...)" ​ IV


So we can assume that bioavailability is 5/6 times less through rectal administration than IV.

Kenneth Biros Execution: Ohio Man First to Die Under 1-Drug Thiopental Sodium Method

And assuming that they used the standard dose of 20mg/kg IV for euthanasia in the case above in Ohio and the adult dose for anestesia is 4/5 mg/kg, I think we could stipulate that a very letal dose rectally it could surely start around 120 mg/kg !

Which matches the article of the nurse that CTB with 6.5 grams rectally.

 

[rotciv]

Obviously this is a minimum and approximate value, which gives about 10 grams on average. So I'm sure that 20 grams will be as lethal as the recommended doses N taken orally, which can be dilute in 20ml resulting in a total of 30ml of solution.

Now I'm not sure what the reaction will be to injecting a 30ml of super alkaline solution into your butt, does anyone have experience to add on this?

 

[rotciv]

euthanasics

"In 11 of these cases (19.6%) the patient died immediately after the administration of thiopental, even before the planned muscle relaxant could be given.
(...)
Agent(s) and dose(s) administered Number of cases
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thiopental I.V. (n = 11)b
Thiopental 1 g 8
Thiopental 1.5 g 2
Thiopental 2 g 1

Thiopental I.V. + muscle relaxant I.V./I.M./I.A. (n = 45)
Thiopental 0.5-2 g I.V.c followed by pancuronium 8 mg I.V. 2
pancuronium 10 mg I.V. 2
pancuronium 12 mg I.V. 1
pancuronium 20 mg I.V. 3
pancuronium ? mg I.V. 2
alcuronium 30 mg I.V. 6
alcuronium 45 mg I.V. 5
alcuronium 50 mg I.V. 16
alcuronium ? mg I.V. 2
Thiopental 1 g I.V. followed by alcuronium 50 mg I.V. 1d
Thiopental 1 g I.V. + alcuronium 30 mg I.V. followed by 1 g thio-
pental I.V. + 20 mg alcuronium I.V. 1e
Thiopental 1 g I.V. followed by alcuronium 45 mg I.V. + KCl 2 g I.V. 1
alcuronium 50 mg I.V. + KCl 2 g I.V. 1
Thiopental 1 g I.V. followed by pancuronium 30 mg I.M. 1f
alcuronium 30 mg + 20 mg I.M. 1g"

What I can understand from these numbers is that despite the relatively small sample, Thiopental's LD50 must be very close to 1 gram. And as the LD100 is not a linear graph, it is very difficult to conclude how many grams would be needed to kill 100% of the population without extensive studies, but if you see LD50 graphics you can get an idea, and If I can guess, 2 grams might be over 80% of population.

ps: Below I attach a exemple graphic curve of LD50 to ppl understand
_________________________________________

Therefore, my numbers for rectal application remain congruent with this article, which reinforces that 10 grams rectally should CTB probably over 80% of the population.

_________________________________________

(in the same article)

"

Rectal administration A detailed listing of the 5 cases of rectal euthanasia is presented in Table 4. In 2 cases the patient died within 3 hours without further intervention, while in the other cases termination was effected with a muscle relaxant after 30 min. to 5 hours. Table 4. Agents and doses administered, and course in 5 cases of rectal euthanasiaa --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agent administered Dose Dosage interval Time from insertion to death (in minutes or hours) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pentobarbital supp. 1 g 2x 3 supp. 1h 70' Secobarbital supp. 0.5 g 3x 2 supp. 1h Ended by means of muscle relaxant after 2h Secobarbital supp. 1 g 1x 3 supp. - Ended by means of muscle relaxant after 30' Ditto 3x 3 supp. 1h 2h30' Supp. containing 200 mg hydroxyzine 7x 1 supp. 30' Ended by means of muscle relaxant after 5h 450 mg secobarbital 150 mg amobarbital 200 mg heptobarbital 200 mg cyclobarbital

"

 

[CTB Dream]

This posbl get?

 

[rotciv]

This posbl get?

easier than N

 

[rotciv]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/rectal-administration

"
In general, absorption from aqueous or alcoholic solutions is more rapid than from suppositories.

Lipophilic drugs with pKa​ between 7 and 8, such as barbiturates and benzodiazepines, seem to be ideally suited for rectal administration because they exist mostly in unionized form and readily cross cell membranes. Rectal use of drugs such as thiopental and diazepam may be effective when intravenous access is a problem and rapid induction of anesthesia is desired or when a child is convulsing.

Additionally, peak serum concentrations occurred within minutes of administration.

(...)

For nonpremedicated children, the usual doses are thiopental (30 to 40 mg/kg)...

Disadvantages of rectal drug administration include failure of inducing anesthesia owing to poor bioavailability of the drug or defecation, as well as delayed recovery from anesthesia after brief procedures due to the variability of rectal drug absorption. Conversely, there can be a very rapid drug uptake leading to respiratory compromise."



It only takes a small change in one variant for the final numbers to be relatively different, in this article they mention a maximum of 40mg/kg of rectal Thiopental for anesthesia induction, which increases the difference in bioavailability to 7 to 8 times that of the intravenous route.

This increases for a dose of about 15 grams of Thiopental for rectal administration to an average of 80% chance theorically (assuming that 2 grams IV ctb 80% of the population).

Then we have several variants such as absorption in the upper or lower part of the rectum, which will influence the % hepatic first pass.
In short, the rectal route is not exact a mathematic as there are many variants, but even so, it will always be a lower dose than that consumed orally.

 

[rotciv]

Rectal thiopental sodium for sedation of pediatric patients undergoing MR and other imaging studies.

"The average time from drug administration to sedation was 12.2 minutes."

Sedation for children undergoing magnetic resonance imaging: Efficacy and safety of rectal thiopental

"undergoing MRI evaluation of the heart were given thiopental (2.5–50 mg/kg, 700 mg max) per rectum. In order to prevent leakage, a female urinary catheter was used. In 79 patients (95.2%) successful sedation was achieved (...) All successfully sedated children were asleep within 30 min and adequate sedation was maintained for at least 45 min."

Efficacy and safety of rectal thiopental: Sedation for children undergoing computed tomography and magnetic resonance imaging

"All successfully sedated patients were asleep within 15 min(...)"

Pediatric Imaging: Sedation with an Injection Formulation Modified for Rectal Administration

"The solution was prepared from thiopental sodium powder mixed with sterile water to create a concentration of 100 mg/mL. The dose ranged from 25 to 40 mg per kilogram of body weight, with a total dose limit of 1.5 g. "

 

[randal_bond]

Some interesting files/information for anyone considering using substances rectally.

Non-oral administration of killing drugs: rectal, feeding tubes and ostomies.

drugs-forum (Rectal administration of Nembutal)

Rectal and Transdermal Routes of Drug Administration

I'm thinking of using 20 grams of Thiopental rectally, as the intravenous route in a peripheral vein would be a very risky and painful procedure, mainly due to the alkalinity of Thiopental (PH10) and the sensibility of the peripheral veins injected as a bolus.

I can dissolve 1 gram of Thiopental in 1 ml of water, which would make a total solution of 30 ml.

In the file below, a nurse CBT with 6.5g of Thiopental rectally in 1969 (old as hell). That says it causes death between 5 to 10 minutes.

Thoughts?

Researching this as well. Is there any reason rectal should be preferred over oral administration? Is there any statistic about oral dose?

 

[rotciv]

Researching this as well. Is there any reason rectal should be preferred over oral administration? Is there any statistic about oral dose?

the oral dl50 of thiopental is not well defined

 

[randal_bond]

Conversely, there can be a very rapid drug uptake leading to respiratory compromise."

That's really scary. Any ideas how to reduce the risk of suffocation while still conscious? Also, can you kindly point me to the article with this quote?

 

[iusedtobehappy]

Following this. Where do we find thiopental? Is this injected or some way to make a suppository to insert?

 

[randal_bond]

Following this. Where do we find thiopental? Is this injected or some way to make a suppository to insert?

Remember, everyone, that sharing the source, first, inflates the price many times (making it unaffordable for majority), second, the source gets shut down. Remember N. Remember, SN in the UK. Plus, visits from police.
I would encourage everybody not to give away their source for the sake of the rest of the community.

iusedtobehappy, my signature will give you a general direction. The rest is your own research and trial and error. The same way as everybody else. PPH gives some practical information about administration.

 

[rotciv]

That's really scary. Any ideas how to reduce the risk of suffocation while still conscious? Also, can you kindly point me to the article with this quote?

I think you become unconscious before you lose your breath.

 

[rotciv]

"
Some medications have a low oral bioavailability, meaning that that only a small amount of the drug will make it into your bloodstream. One way to get more out of some medications is to plugging, a route of administration which allows a much greater bioavailability for many drugs (See the Bioavailability mega-thread to see which substances may benefit from this ROA.)

This guide is intended to explain this process and answer basic questions.

Supplies Needed:

- An oral syringe (or a regular syringe with the needle removed)
(These can be obtained in any pharmacy, either from the shelf or behind the counter. They're commonly referred to as an 'oral syringe' or 'infant syringe')
- Water (usually 1-5ml depending on how many pills you have. The less water the better.)
- Drugs

Preparing yourself:

You'll want to use the bathroom before plugging. You may also choose to use a saline enema to make sure you're sufficiently cleaned out. The more cleaned out you are the better, as this will result in the drug going into your bloodstream rather than absorbing into faecal material.

Preparing the drug:

1. Take the tablets you intend to plug and crush them up in a small container.

2. Use the oral syringe to draw up water.

3. Mix the water with the crushed up tablets.

4. Draw the mixture back up into the syringe.

5. Use vaseline (or any other common lubricant) to lubricate the end up the oral syringe. Be sure to lubricate from the end to where the barrel of the syringe begins to widen.

The plugging process:

There are several different ways to do this. The most comfortable position may be different for you, so you will need to find whatever works best for you personally.

1. Get undressed from the waist down.

2. Lay on your side (preferably the side opposite of your dominant hand).

3. Raise your leg (the one opposite the side you're laying on.

4. With the syringe in your dominant hand, find your anus.

5. Insert the syringe. You only need to go to the syringe's base, typically a couple of inches in.

6. Press the plunger down all the way.

7. Wait several seconds, and then slowly remove the syringe

Now what?

You'll need to lay on your stomach/side for several minutes in order for your body to have time to absorb the medication. 5-10 minutes (depending on the amount of water used) is good."

 

[rotciv]

"there's a spot about 2 inches up ur ass that has best absorption rate, if you dont shoot it there you would get the same effect as if you had swallowed the heroin.
you can feel the spot with cold water and a syringe, if you've gone too far it won't feel very cold and if you're not far enough in it will spill out, the perfect spot is where it will be most cold" @shantyizlit

 

[Aprilfarewell4]

All these methods will work yes, I don't know why more people don't use them. K and H are not that hard to come by on the dark webs at all...even F. It's a much more peaceful way to go than SN etc. that said I also think more people could die by not drinking water. You would be thirsty initially, but after 3 or 4 days you just sleep all the time and eventually pass away. I think there's way too much fear mongering about these more peaceful methods, people convincing other people they're going to vomit and choke and wind up in the hospital, I don't subscribe to that way of being. I think ultimately it just comes down to commitment, a lot of people just aren't needing to do it, which is fine, they should stay and try to hang on, but the people that are serious always find a way.

 

[sauan]

K and H are not that hard to come by on the dark webs at all...even F.

Man, I hate abbreviations.
Are you talking about ketamine, heroin and fentanyl?
The problem is that the products sold by street vendors punks (darkweb) are not trustworthy. It's not like when you are buying a product from a pharmaceutical company. You never know that it's really in there.
But the biggest risk remains the legal one. Instead of dead you could end up in prison for years.

 

[LunarLight]

Man, I hate abbreviations.
Are you talking about ketamine, heroin and fentanyl?
The problem is that the products sold by street vendors punks (darkweb) are not trustworthy. It's not like when you are buying a product from a pharmaceutical company. You never know that it's really in there.
But the biggest risk remains the legal one. Instead of dead you could end up in prison for years.

In prison for years because you ordered drugs on the darknet?
Well, it depends on the country where you live... but where I live (Western Europe), all you can get is a fine and your order confiscated.

 

[Aprilfarewell4]

Man, I hate abbreviations.
Are you talking about ketamine, heroin and fentanyl?
The problem is that the products sold by street vendors punks (darkweb) are not trustworthy. It's not like when you are buying a product from a pharmaceutical company. You never know that it's really in there.
But the biggest risk remains the legal one. Instead of dead you could end up in prison for years.

More fear mongering yeah.
You can buy test strips if you're worried, most people do.
Dark web users generally get what they order, at least so far everyone that I've interacted with that has ordered has received what they wanted and they didn't go to jail.
As for using abbreviations, that's how I searched for them and found what I was looking for, so they serve a purpose. Lazy education lesson, and it's honestly not that hard to figure out for regulars on the board.

 

[rotciv]

More fear mongering yeah.
You can buy test strips if you're worried, most people do.
Dark web users generally get what they order, at least so far everyone that I've interacted with that has ordered has received what they wanted and they didn't go to jail.
As for using abbreviations, that's how I searched for them and found what I was looking for, so they serve a purpose. Lazy education lesson, and it's honestly not that hard to figure out for regulars on the board.

People like to waste other people's time instead of looking for solutions, anyway.

 

[rotciv]

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[rotciv]

I had a lot of work here but I came to the conclusion from my own experience that, given the pH of Thiopental, the rectal method is not good (you will have to go to the bathroom in an urgent manner).

My conclusion final now is that Thiopental is not a good as a CTB method.

Stick to the others short-acting barbs.