Things That Should Be Tried Prior to Considering a Suicide Attempt

[nogods4me]

DBT is bogus.

 

[sambabawee]

@needthebus Thank you so much for this, I can see how much work and effort you put into this. I do agree that this should be posted here and ill even go beyond saying that this should be in the terms and conditions for joining.
Overall great advice, I thought I had done everything but I guess there are few more things that could be explored.

 

[conflagration]

I would add: try religion as form of authotherapy. Some people were literally saved from suicide by doing this.

 

[Dot]

@needthebus Thank you so much for this, I can see how much work and effort you put into this. I do agree that this should be posted here and ill even go beyond saying that this should be in the terms and conditions for joining.
Overall great advice, I thought I had done everything but I guess there are few more things that could be explored.

Chck out th/ recvry threds also - thre mny dffrnt therpy approachs etc thre alng wth spport grps & evn usng thngs lke animls

 

[needthebus]

DBT is bogus.

it may be

from what i heard there were decent studies showing it was more effective for helping people who were borderline or had emotional dysregulation, but it's hard to know if those studies were well done

i'm very cynical of therapy and the mental health industry in general which is why anything involving giving money to the mental health industry made up a very small part of the list. dbt is very expensive, and, as i said before, if someone can't afford something on the list, they can cross it off

@nogods4me, since i'm a depressed atheist, and you're tired of gods, can i borrow the gods you have until i feel better? i'll accept any gods as long as they come in a discount bundled deal and aren't christianity.

 

[slowdance]

As someone who has a registered dietician/ghost living in my brain at all times, I also find your post very insulting and inaccurate. Where did you even get your so-called "information"?

Recommending fad diets is akin to any other pseudoscience. Homeopathy and scientology are fair comparisons. Your ghost needs their license taken away.

Ditch the Gluten, Improve Your Health? - Harvard Health

...

www.health.harvard.edu

Should you try the keto diet? - Harvard Health

It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder, but this eating plan is actually a medical diet that comes with serious risks. In the world of weight-loss diets, low-carbohydrate, high-protein eating plan...

www.health.harvard.edu

The importance of vitamin B12 for individuals choosing plant-based diets - PMC

Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient that is not made by plants; consequently, unfortified plant-based foods are not a reliable supply. Recent estimates suggest high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency among the vegetarian and vegan populations, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Then life is not worth living, it's my reality and my vision. If you need to cope, if you need drugs, if you need sex, life wasn't worth living in the first place, at least for me, again it's MY vision of life, not pushing it on anyone. And I've had friends and family trying to say that I'm having some kind of moral high ground, LOL, come take my place then and die in the upcoming year if you really think it's so cool and pisses you off. I just wish to not exist anymore, I wish I never did , I'm the kind of guy who declines the terms and conditions then gets plunged into the game and forced to play it.

Edit: and yes it's basically an impossible to defeat point and an impossible to fulfill life but hey, I'm not forcing it on anyone , am I? I'm giving myself that treatment, if some others might consider it unhinged or stupid, they can for all I care, I think they are the ones who are stupid , I am not really the kind of person who wants others help anyways, too many strings attached.

 

[needthebus]

Recommending fad diets is akin to any other pseudoscience. Homeopathy and scientology are fair comparisons. Your ghost needs their license taken away.

Ditch the Gluten, Improve Your Health? - Harvard Health

...

www.health.harvard.edu

Should you try the keto diet? - Harvard Health

It's advertised as a weight-loss wonder, but this eating plan is actually a medical diet that comes with serious risks. In the world of weight-loss diets, low-carbohydrate, high-protein eating plan...

www.health.harvard.edu

The importance of vitamin B12 for individuals choosing plant-based diets - PMC

Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient that is not made by plants; consequently, unfortified plant-based foods are not a reliable supply. Recent estimates suggest high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency among the vegetarian and vegan populations, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

the ghost/dietician living in my brain says harvard health isn't a real peer-reviewed journal and it's only a matter of time before elon musk destroys pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov, and therefore none of your claims have any validity, it also says you should try scientology, pharmakology, and homeopathy.

 

[yowai]

I'd add drugs to the list lol, if all else fails there's substances that will force your brain to feel amazing even if only for a short while, doesn't really matter if they ruin your life when it's already shit and you want to end it anyway

 

[needthebus]

I'd add drugs to the list lol, if all else fails there's substances that will force your brain to feel amazing even if only for a short while, doesn't really matter if they ruin your life when it's already shit and you want to end it anyway

the only thing about that is some people would become full on-drug addicts and may prefer suicide over that. i get the concept, i'm just not sure everyone would make that choice (happy but addicted to hard-core drugs with extreme cravings and need for stealing prostitution etc to fund habit vs. death)

 

[yowai]

the only thing about that is some people would become full on-drug addicts and may prefer suicide over that. i get the concept, i'm just not sure everyone would make that choice (happy but addicted to hard-core drugs with extreme cravings and need for stealing prostitution etc to fund habit vs. death)

I know Im in full blown relapse so I may romanticize it a little and forget my worst moments, but before addiction when I wanted to ctb I thought I at least would like to try drugs before dying to get a glimpse of what it's like to be happy lol. Also I remember reading someone's comment under a video about heroin addiction who said heroin saved their life when they were close to ending it, and that after hitting rock bottom with it they somehow managed to get back on their feet and appreciate being alive again
Obviously hard drugs is an absolute last resort though

 

[theboy]

I don't agree with you "deciding" who can or cannot be in this forum

 

[needthebus]

I don't agree with you "deciding" who can or cannot be in this forum.

The gate-keeping posts about "deciding" were supposed to be clearly sarcastic.

I'm not a mod and have no power.

This is a suggestion not about being on the forum, but about considering making a serious attempt and stuff to consider prior to considering that. Someone could be 18 and on the forum, literally try each thing while on the forum, and still be on the forum at 22 going "(venting) did the whole fucking list and still want to die" Nowhere in the list was a request to leave the forum.

 

[nogods4me]

it may be

from what i heard there were decent studies showing it was more effective for helping people who were borderline or had emotional dysregulation, but it's hard to know if those studies were well done

i'm very cynical of therapy and the mental health industry in general which is why anything involving giving money to the mental health industry made up a very small part of the list. dbt is very expensive, and, as i said before, if someone can't afford something on the list, they can cross it off

@nogods4me, since i'm a depressed atheist, and you're tired of gods, can i borrow the gods you have until i feel better? i'll accept any gods as long as they come in a discount bundled deal and aren't christianity.

Please...take them all lol. And keep in mind there is a hard NO RETURN POLICY !

 

[needthebus]

Please...take them all lol. And keep in mind there is a hard NO RETURN POLICY !

but what if i it doesn't fit or it's the wrong material?

 

[nogods4me]

but what if i it doesn't fit or it's the wrong material?

They're sold "As is"...so you will just have to find out whether it fits or not when it is too late. Besides, all the materials are somewhat suffocating, one might even say sadistic.

 

[needthebus]

They're sold "As is"...so you will just have to find out whether it fits or not when it is too late. Besides, all the materials are somewhat suffocating, one might even say sadistic.

What if I'm into that?

 

[Young.Werther]

Well, I'm officially the most hated SaSu member now.

Well there are always the journalists and whatnot who are actively here trying to get the place shut down so I don't think you quite get that award.

Thanks for taking the time to try and make a considered argument. I don't fully agree with you but I'd like to try and be civil about this. I do think that ctb should be carefully considered, not the impulsive act that it sometimes is. That being said, I don't think you're fully thinking about the situation correctly. I buy that for some people things can/will improve. I guess the question is this: at what cost?

Suppose for a moment that at some point in the future, you will be "better." That doesn't mean that between now and then there might not be terrible costs. Some people will look at this and decide that the costs in the interim, between now and "better" are not worth it. Your argument seems to hinge on the possibility of recovery, but I don't think that's sufficient reason to continue on its own. Doing the things you suggest has a cost; some have pointed out the financial costs, but there are substantial non-financial costs as well. If each day is a burden and causes you pain, then you may very well decide to skip out on the pain and I think that's a very personal decision which is really up to the individual.

As an analogy (since people seem to understand non-mental illness better), suppose you were speaking to a cancer patient. There is a possibility that in a few years some miracle treatment will come out and put the patient in remission for good (the "better"). That does not currently exist, so what can you do? You can sign up for clinical trials trying out experimental chemotherapy cocktails and whatnot. This is a grueling process and it is unpleasant to say the least. I mean, chemo is literally poison; it's designed to kill (cancerous) cells but it is poison at the end of the day. So you go along and to have this chance of stumbling upon a miracle drug, you need to continuously poison yourself and put yourself in agony to keep the cancer at bay. At this point, some people would just say: I don't want the chemo anymore, let's just do hospice. Others would stick it out. I don't think either is a bad decision per se, but it's reallly an individual preference thing.

And so that's the thing, trying the things you suggest is taking the chemo. It inflicts costs on the individual, and maybe there is a payoff down the road, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's worth it. I think people know themselves best. If they've thought through their options and concluded that ctb is the best option, they know themselves and their situation better than I do.

 

[reinaria]

I don't want to do those things.I don't want to live simple as that

 

[RainyDaysGrapefruit]

Even if the wording is rather bad in certain parts, I can respect the work put into such a post.

 

[needthebus]

don't try to come at me with your sensible arguments looking at things from a slightly different perspective. who do you think u is?

As an analogy (since people seem to understand non-mental illness better), suppose you were speaking to a cancer patient. There is a possibility that in a few years some miracle treatment will come out and put the patient in remission for good (the "better"). That does not currently exist, so what can you do? You can sign up for clinical trials trying out experimental chemotherapy cocktails and whatnot. This is a grueling process and it is unpleasant to say the least. I mean, chemo is literally poison; it's designed to kill (cancerous) cells but it is poison at the end of the day. So you go along and to have this chance of stumbling upon a miracle drug, you need to continuously poison yourself and put yourself in agony to keep the cancer at bay. At this point, some people would just say: I don't want the chemo anymore, let's just do hospice. Others would stick it out. I don't think either is a bad decision per se, but it's reallly an individual preference thing.

And so that's the thing, trying the things you suggest is taking the chemo. It inflicts costs on the individual, and maybe there is a payoff down the road, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's worth it. I think people know themselves best. If they've thought through their options and concluded that ctb is the best option, they know themselves and their situation better than I do.

 

[living4others]

I've done all that is listed. I am therefore ready to ctb.

 

[CeaseExist]

I understand your perspective, and the post is pretty good

Although, it is one of those self-righteous "I'm helping!" type of thing a lot of support groups have. I'm not saying this type of checklist doesn't have any value, I just want to point out that at least from my own perspective it comes off as if the list is some superior way to check if you still have things to live for lol.

I admit, just like you said, it's a good way to help out those who are not gone too far off the handle yet, those who have been depressed/suicidal for very short amount of time etc. But I wouldn't go around saying shit like "if you are 18-21 you have no business CTBing!!!", bro, that's the high horse I've been mentioning, it's toxic positivity and you literally assume that you know more about everyone than they themselves lol

Overall good talk, but yeah - more of a recovery post to me - would edit out all the guardian of life sentences you sneaked in there, and make the post as objective as you can.

 

[Electra]

View attachment 159278

Found you!

I understand your perspective, and the post is pretty good

Although, it is one of those self-righteous "I'm helping!" type of thing a lot of support groups have. I'm not saying this type of checklist doesn't have any value, I just want to point out that at least from my own perspective it comes off as if the list is some superior way to check if you still have things to live for lol.

I admit, just like you said, it's a good way to help out those who are not gone too far off the handle yet, those who have been depressed/suicidal for very short amount of time etc. But I wouldn't go around saying shit like "if you are 18-21 you have no business CTBing!!!", bro, that's the high horse I've been mentioning, it's toxic positivity and you literally assume that you know more about everyone than they themselves lol

Overall good talk, but yeah - more of a recovery post to me - would edit out all the guardian of life sentences you sneaked in there, and make the post as objective as you can.

Second this.

 

[needthebus]

I am perfectly fine with someone adapting this and writing something better in the recovery section. Make a better list, I won't mind.

If I had agonized over every sentence and phrasing and how people would react, I never would have written it.

18-21 is often when people haven't made money, and lived independently for long. It's a big change and can sometimes make a positive difference. From people who can never work or be independent, I also said that this list doesn't apply to those with chronic agonizing medical conditions.

I am pro-choice and am probably going to end up killing myself somewhere in the next few years if not much much sooner. I don't really think it's toxic positivity.

This was a really hard post for me to write, believe it or not, and I've gotten so much incredible negative feedback and hate from it. I sort of wish I had never written it and am probably going to delete my account soon. Calling me pro-life which some people do when I've attempted multiple times and will probably make a final successful attempt somewhat soon feels really bullying and mean to me.

And this is not just a response to what you wrote which wasn't that bad, but just some of the hate I'm getting recently.

 

[needthebus]

I've done all that is listed. I am therefore ready to ctb.

lol, sort of not the point, but if everything on the list was tried, and you are still miserable, then like you've really tried hard... And even if it leaves friends and family miserable, you tried some shit, you tried to avoid just rushing into suicide...

Like, sometimes people try more than what's on that list and end up happy later. I heard about someone who was depressed until his 5th job and he found a good match and became very happy. But like, really if you've done everything on the list, you tried... Additional effort may or may not make your life happier.

 

[rs929]

I won't really call this a pro-choice post. Its a pro-choice under certain conditions. Being pro-choice would mean allowing anyone the freedom to die no matter what reason (aside from few exceptions like being a parent.) While this should be recommended to people who are considering to suicide but still want to give recovery ago, no one should have to do even one of these things if they don't want to. Recovery is really really difficult and I shouldn't have to do that for others cus I was forced into this mess. Its my all parents' fault for creating me that this happened, I don't owe them anything good especially as they trap me. I would say they deserve punishment and to grief from my suicide.

Is it bad to be pro choice "under certain conditions"?. So let's say, would you be okay if a guy is dumped by his girlfriend, falls into a depression, tries absolutely nothing to fix it, and catches the bus?
The chances that that guy recovers even with no treatment at all are like 95-100% just to give an educated guess.

It's an extreme, though. Like a guy that is bedridden, in pain, and terminal. Yeah obviously I support a painless exit for him.

Then there are a lot of shades of gray, for which we may agree or disagree. Maybe I don't agree with OP that you MUST spend all those years trying to recover. But saying that you are pro choice in absolutely all circunstances isn't really reasonable to me.

 

[miyabi]

This is not a recovery post. This is a list of things that I think people should do or try prior to even considering an attempt. This does not apply to people who are in chronic pain due to a severe incurable illness (such as slow painful cancer, the end stages of Huntington's disease, or extreme disabilities that result in severe pain that will never improve). I am posting this in the Suicide subforum because I hope people considering an attempt read this and if they haven't done stuff suggested here that they try it prior to considering an attempt. This is not about recovery, this is about being responsible: an attempt is serious and it leaves other people (friends and family) devastated and so before even considering an attempt, you should be trying to do things to get better if you can:

1. If you are 18-21, you should wait beyond this period because brains change so much during this time.

2. Many people get depressed due to loneliness and not having sexual needs and companionship needs me. Therefore, you should at least try:

A. Putting up dating profiles on at least 4 dating websites for at least 6-12 months to see if you can meet someone.
B. Jogging every day for at least two weeks to see if there is any anti-depression impact
C. Working out 3x a week to improve your appearance
D. Getting a life coach to help you with this process, working with a life coach for at least 3 months

I really believe that when people are sad, the typical societal response is "drug them with big pharma drugs" and "have them talk about feelings in therapy." I don't think this is very effective for many people, especially people who aren't having sexual needs met. The typical societal response emphasizes introspection and being drugged instead of making specific changes in life to try to feel better. For someone extremely depressed, they also often have problems making decisions or doing things, which is why every depressed person would probably actually do better with a life coach who tells them specific things they need to do and try, rather than just being drugged and talking about their feelings for extremely high fees.

3. Many people, including young people, are unhappy due to a lack of independence and unhappy due to not feeling empowered by self-sufficiency, so before considering an attempt you should try:
A. At least 3 different jobs in different work sectors to see if having a job you like and making money makes life better.
B. Working each job for at least 3 months.
C. Having a job and making enough money to not live with your family for at least 6 months in case a lack of independence is making your depression worse.

If you have done all of these things so far, and have also tried dating while working (and work makes you more desirable to others sometimes) and you've tried to become more desirable to partners and dating and have tried working and you're 22 and are still depressed, then it's important to try other things too before considering an attempt.

4. Before considering an attempt, people should at least try medication and therapy, although from what I've seen on SaSu, most people here have already tried medication and therapy:
A. Talk with a doctor about trying at least 2 kinds of antidepressants for at least 3 months each.
B. Talk with a doctor about trying at least 1 mood stabilizer like lithium for at least a month in case you're actually bipolar
C. Talk with a doctor about trying an atypical anti-psychotic for at least 1 month in case you are in the early stages of another disorder
D. Try at least 2 psychiatrists if not feeling better when working with the first
E. Try at least 3 therapy sessions to see if there's any improvement.

If you have done all of these things, you've really given traditional mental health therapy treatments a significant try. If you haven't done literally all of these things, you probably haven't tried hard enough and shouldn't even consider attempting.

5. Before considering an attempt, people should at least try volunteering in 1 community organization at least 4 hours a week for 3 months

The reason for this is that a lot of times people who want to die feel their lives are meaningless and are lonely and don't feel connected to people. If you haven't tried volunteering somewhere, you should do this before considering an attempt.

6. Before considering a suicide attempt, you should check to make sure there isn't some lifestyle or diet factor making you feel worse. You should try:
A. Allergen test
B. Try a gluten-free diet for at least 2 weeks
C. Try a Keto diet for at least 2 weeks
D. Try a vegan diet for at least 2 weeks

7. Before considering a suicide attempt, you should get lab work done and talk to a primary care doctor to see if there's anything medically wrong that could be making you feel worse:
A. Get lab work done
B. Rule out vitamin deficiencies

8. Before considering a suicide attempt, you should at least wait 6 months to 1 year to see if your depression naturally resolves on it's own.

Before even considering a suicide attempt, I hope you try all of these things. This does not mean that if you've tried all these things then it's fine to attempt or you should consider attempting; instead it means that if you haven't tried all of these things and don't have a chronic painful medical condition that can't be treated or an end-stage illness, then your depression or life circumstances may improve dramatically yet and you really shouldn't be considering something as drastic as ending your life. This list would take about 1-2 years to do everything on if you are over 21. If economics/costs are a factor, I really hope that before considering an attempt you prioritize hiring a life coach because, unlike most mental health professionals who don't tell you what to do during a time in which it's hard to make decisions, life coaches will tell you specific things they want you to try and do.

If you are 18-21, you are too young to attempt suicide. It's a permanent decision and things could change, your brain can change, 18-21 is a hard time for many, many people. Also, please think of other people on SaSu: when younger people on SaSu die, it makes SaSu look bad and it's unfair to put the site at risk. Please try to wait until you're over 21 to protect the site.

No one under 18 should be here or reading this. Anyone being under 18 and on SaSu means they've lied to gain access and it's terribly unfair to everyone else who wants to use this site as it puts the site at risk.

To anyone reading this, sorry you are here and reading this and I hope you eventually end up happy somehow and end up never coming back to this site, and end up having a meaningful life and/or being blissfully in love with someone you care about.

It's a really nice post. Thanks for your effort. I imagine it'll help a lot of people.