"“There's only three things. That's for sure. Taxes, death and trouble."

[sserafim]

"There's only three things. That's for sure. Taxes, death and trouble."

Do you believe that this sums up life?

 

[Pluto]

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Taxes are for humans, particularly those living in societies that use currency. But all organisms experience suffering and eventually die.

 

[DarkRange55]

Taxes are for humans, particularly those living in societies that use currency. But all organisms experience suffering and eventually die.

All societies use currency. Whether it was shells, beads, barley, belts, salt, cattle, corn, pelts, ect. Before that was barter.
In a tribe of baboons, the alpha males tax the middle class and give it to the low-ranking baboons so that the low ranking baboons will side with the alpha males if the middle-class revolts.

 

[sserafim]

All societies use currency. Whether it was shells, beads, barley, belts, salt, cattle, corn, pelts, ect. Before that was barter.
In a tribe of baboons, the alpha males tax the middle class and give it to the low-ranking baboons so that the low ranking baboons will side with the alpha males if the middle-class revolts.

I wish that I could've been a solitary animal in this life. Wouldn't it be so nice to be a snow leopard or mountain lion? By the way, when I was a kid, I used to love mountain lions. I just found mountain lion cubs super cute.

 

[DarkRange55]

I think the saying of, "The only certainties in life are death and taxes," is true, yes. But taxes serve a purpose. The money isn't managed well unfortunately and taxes are high but still serve a beneficial function. Unlike for baboons…

When money comes from the state treasury level and moves down it's very easy for some of it to go missing. Some here, some there, let's start this charity and a slush fund and we'll pay ourselves this.

I wish that I could've been a solitary animal in this life. Wouldn't it be so nice to be a snow leopard or mountain lion? By the way, when I was a kid, I used to love mountain lions. I just found mountain lion cubs super cute.

Do you find self awareness to be a curse?
What do you think of the book title "The Plague of Meaning?"

 

[EyesOfNight]

Whether it was shells, beads, barley, belts, salt, cattle, corn, pelts, ect.

But that's not currency, it's the goods themselves being traded.

 

[sserafim]

I think the saying of, "The only certainties in life are death and taxes," is true, yes. But taxes serve a purpose. The money isn't managed well unfortunately and taxes are high but still serve a beneficial function. Unlike for baboons…

When money comes from the state treasury level and moves down it's very easy for some of it to go missing. Some here, some there, let's start this charity and a slush fund and we'll pay ourselves this.

Do you find self awareness to be a curse?
What do you think of the book title "The Plague of Meaning?"

I believe that self awareness could be considered a curse, but it allows one to be intelligent, cognizant and knowledgable. I said in another thread that I'd rather be a depressed genius instead of a happy fool, so I guess that self awareness is a curse that I would keep. I guess I just don't like being human, I never really felt like one. I've always felt more like an alien and that I was on the wrong planet. I think that I would be fine with being an ET, I'm just not a fan of being human.

I think that the title sounds interesting, especially how it implies that meaning can trouble and torment someone. I think that humans are miserable because they're self-aware, it's because of intelligence and consciousness that people are able to realize the meaninglessness and mundaneness of life, and then they become depressed. Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power. Maybe the quote also means that our search for meaning in this mundane world is fruitless and that we will never find the true meaning of life, so we should just give up and live our lives happily. What do you think about the title?

 

[DarkRange55]

But that's not currency, it's the goods themselves being traded.

That is commodity currency, not fiat currency.
Three types of currency: representative, commodity and fiat.
Currency is simply a convenient way of counting… it is also fungible.

Commodity money - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think that self awareness could be considered a curse, but I think that it allows one to be intelligent and knowledgable. I guess I just don't like being human, I never really felt like one. I've always felt more like an alien and that I was on the wrong planet. I think that I would be fine with being an ET, I'm just not a fan of being human.

I think that the title sounds interesting, especially how it implies that meaning can trouble and torment someone. I think that humans are miserable because they're self-aware, it's because of intelligence and consciousness that people are able to realize the meaningless of life, and then they become depressed. Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power. Maybe the quote also means that our search for meaning in this mundane world is fruitless and that we will never find the true meaning of life, so we should just give up. What do you think about the title?

people are able to realize the meaningless of life
Nothing really matters to us unless we recognize its meaning.
If we are barometers of meaning, then the universe is not meaningless because we are part of the universe.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

"There's only three things. That's for sure. Taxes, death and trouble."

Do you believe that this sums up life?

I would agree that only death is certain in life and in death all humans (whether rich or poor) and every living being and even every "non-living beings" like stars and the universe are united in dying sooner or later.

Taxes are very much manageable - not as a wage-slave but as self employed person / company. "Trouble" in life is a very much a subjective feeling and experience.

I think the saying of, "The only certainties in life are death and taxes," is true, yes. But taxes serve a purpose. The money isn't managed well unfortunately and taxes are high but still serve a beneficial function.

That's right and wrong in the same time. If taxes were used in a way to benefit the ones in need and all that they'd be good but actually all taxes collected are not enough to "finance" the "luxury" we all and even poor people experience in comparison to ancient times - and taxing the ultra rich with 90% will also lead to nowhere! All countries are in debt to one another and to so called central banks who issue money just by pressing a button - literally. This will inevitably lead into an economic discussion and I want to avoid it bc it will lead to nowhere here and is complex stuff that can't be answered easily.

 

[DarkRange55]

I would agree that only death is certain in life and in death all humans (whether rich or poor) and every living being and even every "non-living beings" like stars and the universe are united in dying sooner or later.

Taxes are very much manageable - not as a wage-slave but as self employed person / company. "Trouble" in life is a very much a subjective feeling and experience.

That's right and wrong in the same time. If taxes were used in a way to benefit the ones in need and all that they'd be good but actually all taxes collected are not enough to "finance" the "luxury" we all and even poor people experience in comparison to ancient times - and taxing the ultra rich with 90% will also lead to nowhere! All countries are in debt to one another and to so called central banks who issue money just by pressing a button - literally. This will inevitably lead into an economic discussion and I want to avoid it bc it will lead to nowhere here and is complex stuff that can't be answered easily.

Thats not exactly how money creation works.

The Austrian Neo-Keynesian Monetarists all agree that if you create money you're gonna get inflation. Thats not empirically true. In 2008 the Federal Reserve balance sheet was $800 billion dollars. In 2015 it was $4.5 trillion. Today its about $7.5 trillion. There's no inflation, so inflation doesn't correlate to money supply. the key to inflation is velocity its the turnover rate. And right now they're creating money like crazy and giving it to the banks to buy Treasury notes thats how they increase the money supply. The stick the Treasury notes on the Fed balance sheet and they just sit there. The banks have the money but they give it back to the Fed in the form of excess reserves. And they get a little bit of interest on it. But the money doesn't go anywhere. Its the lending, spending basically the increase in turnover of money that could give you inflation.

We use Modern Monetary Theory today (MMT)

What determines the strength of a country's currency is: Supply and demand, the interest rates of each country, the trade balance of each country, and the perceived stability of the currency and the governments, plus economic factors like higher oil prices, which helps the Canadian dollar for example. Fx = f(economic and political health of country and BOP) Balance of Payments.

Credit cycle and the lending cycle is critical to creating vital economies and banks / Fed are at the center of the process .. without borrowing : lending you would not make some of investments needed for growth

Go back to cecchetti or krugman texts. Debt is not bad, just remember what it finances - houses, plant&equipment and new ventures

And money measure -- the Ms -- are just convenient accounting measures



Hint: not the Rothschilds and bankers

In my opinion it's not about reducing wealth inequality through taxes specifically, it's about using the surplus of money from actually taxing the wealthy to enrich our schools and infrastructure which just gives people a better shot at life in general.

Taxes pay for roads, bridges, hospitals, interstate highways, ect. Again, not managed correctly but its still not directly robbery. Central banks do not own countries and it does not work like a family owing a credit card company money.
Government programs like social security buy government bonds. There's no social security trust. It's been ruled in income tax by the supreme court. They take your money and buy a T-bill so it's really just giving money back to the government. It's not a savings account. It's a transfer system. This is where most of the debt is from.

Over the past 50-100 years we've had a massive increase in the global population. We've had massive productively gains with technology and overall the world has been pretty prosperous. A big part of that comes from demographics where you have a population pyramid of more young people supporting not that many old people. You have a huge workforce that is paying payroll taxes (at least in the US) and paying Medicare taxes, ect. And that helps support old people and finance the system. Now birthrates are collapsing globally especially in east Asia and the US. America's population pyramid is all from immigration (we'll see how long that lasts…). But overall we've had an inversion of population pyramids. At least in democracies, the old cohort is going to be a massive voting block and they will continue to vote themselves as many benefits as possible as the younger generations continue to shrink as they don't have as much say in politics. Maybe this will lead to some kind of fascism, I don't know. The whole current financial system is based on population growth, productivity gains and the transfer payments from working individuals to retired individuals. So in 100 years when the population begins to collapse and the taxes are much higher - global stock markets, government debt and taxes to support an aging population globally (this will even come for Africa, too, at some point. They probably have it worse because they have huge birthrates now that will probably reverse), whats going to happen? I imagine its going to be worse - taxes and government debt will be high and the stock market (depending on what is representative of the stock market) may not do as well because you have fewer people working in corporations. The only thing that I think would save us would be some type of new technological revolution which maybe enhances lifestyles or lifespans and makes massive gains in productivity for a shrinking working population. Which is entirely possible. If we don't have massive increases in productivity or reverse this crisis, government finances may be so strained that retirement benefits are cut and maybe the global economy starts to flatten out or decline.

This is a whole area of research and analysis for the USA and many other countries that I do not know very well. YES, demographics and intergenerational transfers in many different countries with many complex financial and tax issues. This is an area you could research at school as you pursue another degree

https://www.nber.org/programs-proje...-disability-research-center?page=1&perPage=50

Also in the mid 20th century, the top 1% payed an income tax of 90% at one point

Charting America’s Debt: $27 Trillion and Counting

America's debt recently surpassed $27 trillion. In this infographic, we peel back the layers to understand why it keeps on growing.

www.visualcapitalist.com

The debt isn't an issue as long as they can make interest payments. BOP

Thats not exactly how money creation works.

The Austrian Neo-Keynesian Monetarists all agree that if you create money you're gonna get inflation. Thats not empirically true. In 2008 the Federal Reserve balance sheet was $800 billion dollars. In 2015 it was $4.5 trillion. Today its about $7.5 trillion. There's no inflation, so inflation doesn't correlate to money supply. the key to inflation is velocity its the turnover rate. And right now they're creating money like crazy and giving it to the banks to buy Treasury notes thats how they increase the money supply. The stick the Treasury notes on the Fed balance sheet and they just sit there. The banks have the money but they give it back to the Fed in the form of excess reserves. And they get a little bit of interest on it. But the money doesn't go anywhere. Its the lending, spending basically the increase in turnover of money that could give you inflation.
What determines the strength of a country's currency is: Supply and demand, the interest rates of each country, the trade balance of each country, and the perceived stability of the currency and the governments, plus economic factors like higher oil prices, which helps the Canadian dollar for example. Fx = f(economic and political health of country and BOP) Balance of Payments.

Credit cycle and the lending cycle is critical to creating vital economies and banks / Fed are at the center of the process .. without borrowing : lending you would not make some of investments needed for growth

Go back to cecchetti or krugman texts. Debt is not bad, just remember what it finances - houses, plant&equipment and new ventures

And money measure -- the Ms -- are just convenient accounting measures



Hint: not the Rothschilds and bankers

In my opinion it's not about reducing wealth inequality through taxes specifically, it's about using the surplus of money from actually taxing the wealthy to enrich our schools and infrastructure which just gives people a better shot at life in general.

Taxes pay for roads, bridges, hospitals, interstate highways, ect. Again, not managed correctly but its still not directly robbery.

I would agree that only death is certain in life and in death all humans (whether rich or poor) and every living being and even every "non-living beings" like stars and the universe are united in dying sooner or later.

Taxes are very much manageable - not as a wage-slave but as self employed person / company. "Trouble" in life is a very much a subjective feeling and experience.

That's right and wrong in the same time. If taxes were used in a way to benefit the ones in need and all that they'd be good but actually all taxes collected are not enough to "finance" the "luxury" we all and even poor people experience in comparison to ancient times - and taxing the ultra rich with 90% will also lead to nowhere! All countries are in debt to one another and to so called central banks who issue money just by pressing a button - literally. This will inevitably lead into an economic discussion and I want to avoid it bc it will lead to nowhere here and is complex stuff that can't be answered easily.

Whats your finance background, if I may ask?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

@DarkRange55 I know about this stuff but that was exactly what I wanted to avoid in this discussion. And somehow it makes me suicidal bc I do not have the means anymore to play in that game and I'm not degrading myself to a game piece.

 

[DarkRange55]

I would agree that only death is certain in life and in death all humans (whether rich or poor) and every living being and even every "non-living beings" like stars and the universe are united in dying sooner or later.

Taxes are very much manageable - not as a wage-slave but as self employed person / company. "Trouble" in life is a very much a subjective feeling and experience.

That's right and wrong in the same time. If taxes were used in a way to benefit the ones in need and all that they'd be good but actually all taxes collected are not enough to "finance" the "luxury" we all and even poor people experience in comparison to ancient times - and taxing the ultra rich with 90% will also lead to nowhere! All countries are in debt to one another and to so called central banks who issue money just by pressing a button - literally. This will inevitably lead into an economic discussion and I want to avoid it bc it will lead to nowhere here and is complex stuff that can't be answered easily.

Also the poorest people in America today live better than the richest did 300 years ago.
Our ability to purchase fantastic electronics for very little cost is because our ability to produce electronics advances even faster than the ravages of inflation.

@DarkRange55 I know about this stuff but that was exactly what I wanted to avoid in this discussion. And somehow it makes me suicidal bc I do not have the means anymore to play in that game and I'm not degrading myself to a game piece.

Game?
I'm just asking if you went to school for economics?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Whats your finance background, if I may ask?

Game?
I'm just asking if you went to school for economics?

Unfortunately I did not study economics / finance stuff after I left school - maybe it would have helped me to make better decisions in my life.

Also the poorest people in America today live better than the richest did 300 years ago.
Our ability to purchase fantastic electronics for very little cost is because our ability to produce electronics advances even faster than the ravages of inflation.

This pretty much depends on subjective stuff, 300 years ago there were no electronics - we can't compare it to nowadays. There still a few very rich people people living in their palaces and mansions and even though life on social welfare is probably much better than 300 years ago (if it existed back then) it's a life in poverty. According to how I feel it is.

I'm not in the US and anyway Idc. Why would a govt buy a T-Bill that costs inevitably interest that has to be paid to an ivestor and iof there is no investor it has to be paid to a central bank, that issues another money if the govt cannot repay the debt in the end and has to pay more interest. The fact is all texes collected are not enough to cover the "luxury" everyone has. If the collected taxes were enough there wouldn't be any debt but the truth is there is debt everywhere and for a majority of people "luxury" is only available bc the can go into debt.

I don't remember where I got this from but "If all debt disappears money would disappear in the same time".

As an employee you cannot deduct anything from your tax stuff (= writing off things), unlike a self-employed person or a company but even companies cannot deduct all expenses and taxes they have to pay from their income. If everything was fully deductible it's a 0-sum game.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

That is commodity currency, not fiat currency.
Three types of currency: representative, commodity and fiat.
Currency is simply a convenient way of counting… it is also fungible.

Commodity money - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That was interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

In a tribe of baboons, the alpha males tax the middle class and give it to the low-ranking baboons so that the low ranking baboons will side with the alpha males if the middle-class revolts.

Where did you get the information about baboons using a tax system? I tried searching for articles about this behavior without any results. How exactly do alpha male baboons "tax" the middle-ranking members? What do the alpha males give to the low-ranking baboons?

In the wild, there are cases of animals offering particular items for copulation or vis versa. Nuptial gifting has been observed in the courtships of certain mammals, birds, arachnids, insects, and mollusks. Some female adelie penguins will entice males to mate with them in exchange for pebbles from the nests that males guard. Bonobos will have sex with each other in exchange for certain food sources like fruit.

Captive primates like capuchin monkeys and chimpanzees have been trained to use tokens to trade for different foods. Here is a brief article from Northeastern University, and another from the National Library of Medicine.

However, taxation hasn't been observed in any of the listed examples.

 

[DarkRange55]

That was interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

Where did you get the information about baboons using a tax system? I tried searching for articles about this behavior without any results. How exactly do alpha male baboons "tax" the middle-ranking members? What do the alpha males give to the low-ranking baboons?

In the wild, there are cases of animals offering particular items for copulation or vis versa. Nuptial gifting has been observed in the courtships of certain mammals, birds, arachnids, insects, and mollusks. Some female adelie penguins will entice males to mate with them in exchange for pebbles from the nests that males guard. Bonobos will have sex with each other in exchange for certain food sources like fruit.

Captive primates like capuchin monkeys and chimpanzees have been trained to use tokens to trade for different foods. Here is a brief article from Northeastern University, and another from the National Library of Medicine.

However, taxation hasn't been observed in any of the listed examples.

Skiing, will respond later

 

[DarkRange55]

That was interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

Where did you get the information about baboons using a tax system? I tried searching for articles about this behavior without any results. How exactly do alpha male baboons "tax" the middle-ranking members? What do the alpha males give to the low-ranking baboons?

In the wild, there are cases of animals offering particular items for copulation or vis versa. Nuptial gifting has been observed in the courtships of certain mammals, birds, arachnids, insects, and mollusks. Some female adelie penguins will entice males to mate with them in exchange for pebbles from the nests that males guard. Bonobos will have sex with each other in exchange for certain food sources like fruit.

Captive primates like capuchin monkeys and chimpanzees have been trained to use tokens to trade for different foods. Here is a brief article from Northeastern University, and another from the National Library of Medicine.

However, taxation hasn't been observed in any of the listed examples.

First, I want to say thank you for your comments and inputs. Very informative and very interesting! I think that through discussion we don't lose any knowledge.

That is a good point about electronics. I do believe everyone should have the right to adequate medical care, livable wage, adequate housing. I'm very interested in FDR's second bill of rights. I would agree that "luxuries" are not afforded through taxes, sadly. And I think that is a very important distinction that you made, that I admittedly misread. So thank you for clarifying!
A well-read friend told me about the baboons.

>> How exactly do alpha male baboons "tax" the middle-ranking members? What do the alpha males give to the low-ranking baboons?
Either by physically taking some of the food that they find and share it with the low-ranking baboons, or by forcing the middle ranks to share the best gathering grounds.

In the wild, there are cases of animals offering particular items for copulation or vis versa. Nuptial gifting has been observed in the courtships of certain mammals, birds, arachnids, insects, and mollusks. Some female adelie penguins will entice males to mate with them in exchange for pebbles from the nests that males guard. Bonobos will have sex with each other in exchange for certain food sources like fruit.
Captive primates like capuchin monkeys and chimpanzees have been trained to use tokens to trade for different foods. Here is a brief article from Northeastern University, and another from the National Library of Medicine.

However, taxation hasn't been observed in any of the listed examples.

Show Quoted Content

In the wild, there are cases of animals offering particular items for copulation or vis versa. Nuptial gifting has been observed in the courtships of certain mammals, birds, arachnids, insects, and mollusks. Some female adelie penguins will entice males to mate with them in exchange for pebbles from the nests that males guard. Bonobos will have sex with each other in exchange for certain food sources like fruit.

Captive primates like capuchin monkeys and chimpanzees have been trained to use tokens to trade for different foods. Here is a brief article from Northeastern University, and another from the National Library of Medicine.

However, taxation hasn't been observed in any of the listed examples.

It generally isn't called "taxation" (most academics being on the socialist side (not a negative connotation) of the individualist-to-group spectrum), but a dominant individual taking from lower-ranking individuals and sharing with (his, in this case) supporters fit on the taxation side of the interaction spectrum.

https://innermammalinstitute.org/your-neurochemical-self/

Unfortunately I did not study economics / finance stuff after I left school - maybe it would have helped me to make better decisions in my life.


This pretty much depends on subjective stuff, 300 years ago there were no electronics - we can't compare it to nowadays. There still a few very rich people people living in their palaces and mansions and even though life on social welfare is probably much better than 300 years ago (if it existed back then) it's a life in poverty. According to how I feel it is.

I'm not in the US and anyway Idc. Why would a govt buy a T-Bill that costs inevitably interest that has to be paid to an ivestor and iof there is no investor it has to be paid to a central bank, that issues another money if the govt cannot repay the debt in the end and has to pay more interest. The fact is all texes collected are not enough to cover the "luxury" everyone has. If the collected taxes were enough there wouldn't be any debt but the truth is there is debt everywhere and for a majority of people "luxury" is only available bc the can go into debt.

I don't remember where I got this from but "If all debt disappears money would disappear in the same time".

As an employee you cannot deduct anything from your tax stuff (= writing off things), unlike a self-employed person or a company but even companies cannot deduct all expenses and taxes they have to pay from their income. If everything was fully deductible it's a 0-sum game.

I will need to take a little bit of time to respond to this since I am on my way home right now. Tax laws vary from state to state and even county to county and city to city. But there are tax credits available to individuals and families such as the family tax credit.

 

[DarkRange55]

Unfortunately I did not study economics / finance stuff after I left school - maybe it would have helped me to make better decisions in my life.


This pretty much depends on subjective stuff, 300 years ago there were no electronics - we can't compare it to nowadays. There still a few very rich people people living in their palaces and mansions and even though life on social welfare is probably much better than 300 years ago (if it existed back then) it's a life in poverty. According to how I feel it is.

I'm not in the US and anyway Idc. Why would a govt buy a T-Bill that costs inevitably interest that has to be paid to an ivestor and iof there is no investor it has to be paid to a central bank, that issues another money if the govt cannot repay the debt in the end and has to pay more interest. The fact is all texes collected are not enough to cover the "luxury" everyone has. If the collected taxes were enough there wouldn't be any debt but the truth is there is debt everywhere and for a majority of people "luxury" is only available bc the can go into debt.

I don't remember where I got this from but "If all debt disappears money would disappear in the same time".

As an employee you cannot deduct anything from your tax stuff (= writing off things), unlike a self-employed person or a company but even companies cannot deduct all expenses and taxes they have to pay from their income. If everything was fully deductible it's a 0-sum game.

I would also add that:

The poorest people in America today live better than the richest did 300 years ago.

In most senses, yes, but not if you wanted things or services that required skilled hand labor (butler, inlaid carpentry).

Our ability to purchase fantastic electronics for very little cost is because our ability to produce electronics advances even faster than the ravages of inflation.

MUCH faster. And wages rise to partially compensate for inflation (albeit, they have stagnated, not arguing that)

This pretty much depends on subjective stuff, 300 years ago there were no electronics - we can't compare it to nowadays?

We can compare what we utilize (live music versus music via electronics). Also things like ability to travel, health care, etc.

 

[sserafim]

All societies use currency. Whether it was shells, beads, barley, belts, salt, cattle, corn, pelts, ect. Before that was barter.
In a tribe of baboons, the alpha males tax the middle class and give it to the low-ranking baboons so that the low ranking baboons will side with the alpha males if the middle-class revolts.

Why do you think that is?

 

[DarkRange55]

All societies use currency. Whether it was shells, beads, barley, belts, salt, cattle, corn, pelts, ect. Before that was barter.
In a tribe of baboons, the alpha males tax the middle class and give it to the low-ranking baboons so that the low ranking baboons will side with the alpha males if the middle-class revolts.

Money vs currency: Very different. Currency are actual physical coins and bills... where as the Ms are various definitional counts of money (deposits, CDs, etc). Again a money and banking course or textbook would clarify the importance of each.

Why do you think that is?

currency is just a convenient way of counting. remember that value is a reflection of the real economy: land, food, goods and services. go back to barter economies where we traded goats, wheat, salted food/meat... and evolved into gold and currency (before central banks)

stay with basics if real economies... today value of currencies are just people/banks/traders evaluation of long term prospects of economic growth of US, China, Japan, UK, EU...

the driver is real economy -- goods and services, trade -- of currency which is just a way of counting

Why do you think that is?

It's fungible, easy to carry - it's convenient. If aiI want two goats but I have three chickens and you don't want chickens….
People started writing things down in ancient Samaria to keep track of accounts and transactions. When society started issuing big loans, technology, business and innovation took off a last faster because it was easier to grow.

Why do you think that is?

Does that answer your question? Or are you asking why do people exchange or why do we have the idea of an economy?

 

[sserafim]

Money vs currency: Very different. Currency are actual physical coins and bills... where as the Ms are various definitional counts of money (deposits, CDs, etc). Again a money and banking course or textbook would clarify the importance of each.

currency is just a convenient way of counting. remember that value is a reflection of the real economy: land, food, goods and services. go back to barter economies where we traded goats, wheat, salted food/meat... and evolved into gold and currency (before central banks)

stay with basics if real economies... today value of currencies are just people/banks/traders evaluation of long term prospects of economic growth of US, China, Japan, UK, EU...

the driver is real economy -- goods and services, trade -- of currency which is just a way of counting

It's fungible, easy to carry - it's convenient. If aiI want two goats but I have three chickens and you don't want chickens….
People started writing things down in ancient Samaria to keep track of accounts and transactions. When society started issuing big loans, technology, business and innovation took off a last faster because it was easier to grow.

Does that answer your question? Or are you asking why do people exchange or why do we have the idea of an economy?

I was asking why people exchange and why we have the idea of an economy. Thanks for that though.

 

[DarkRange55]

Humans invented the idea of an economy to facilitate the exchange of goods and services in a systematic and organized manner. The concept of an economy emerged as societies grew and individuals needed a way to allocate resources efficiently and fairly. By establishing an economy, humans could establish systems of trade, currency, and markets to regulate the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. This helped to ensure that resources were allocated effectively, businesses could thrive, and individuals could meet their needs and wants through trade and exchange.

Humans exchange goods and services for various reasons, including:

1. Meeting Needs: Exchange allows individuals to acquire goods and services that they need to survive and thrive. By trading with others, people can obtain food, shelter, clothing, and other essential items.

2. Specialization: Exchange enables individuals to specialize in producing goods or services in which they have a comparative advantage. This specialization leads to increased efficiency and productivity, benefiting both parties involved in the exchange.

3. Diversity: Exchange promotes diversity by allowing individuals to access a wide range of goods and services that may not be available in their immediate surroundings. This diversity enhances quality of life and enriches cultural experiences.

4. Economic Growth: Exchange stimulates economic growth by fostering innovation, competition, and investment. As individuals trade and exchange goods and services, businesses grow, create jobs, and contribute to overall economic development.

5. Social Interaction: Exchange fosters social interaction and cooperation among individuals and communities. By engaging in trade, people build relationships, establish networks, and create social bonds that contribute to a sense of community and mutual support.

Overall, exchange is a fundamental aspect of human interaction and plays a crucial role in shaping economies, societies, and relationships.

So it likely grew out of our social collective / needs especially as society became more complex and grew.

Does that help? Or are you specifically asking, what group species exchange or why humans don't just work together for the greater good like Star Trek or Marxism? Or are does this go back to the question about why aren't we all independent, solo animals and instead cluster in tribes?

 

[sserafim]

Humans invented the idea of an economy to facilitate the exchange of goods and services in a systematic and organized manner. The concept of an economy emerged as societies grew and individuals needed a way to allocate resources efficiently and fairly. By establishing an economy, humans could establish systems of trade, currency, and markets to regulate the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. This helped to ensure that resources were allocated effectively, businesses could thrive, and individuals could meet their needs and wants through trade and exchange.

Humans exchange goods and services for various reasons, including:

1. Meeting Needs: Exchange allows individuals to acquire goods and services that they need to survive and thrive. By trading with others, people can obtain food, shelter, clothing, and other essential items.

2. Specialization: Exchange enables individuals to specialize in producing goods or services in which they have a comparative advantage. This specialization leads to increased efficiency and productivity, benefiting both parties involved in the exchange.

3. Diversity: Exchange promotes diversity by allowing individuals to access a wide range of goods and services that may not be available in their immediate surroundings. This diversity enhances quality of life and enriches cultural experiences.

4. Economic Growth: Exchange stimulates economic growth by fostering innovation, competition, and investment. As individuals trade and exchange goods and services, businesses grow, create jobs, and contribute to overall economic development.

5. Social Interaction: Exchange fosters social interaction and cooperation among individuals and communities. By engaging in trade, people build relationships, establish networks, and create social bonds that contribute to a sense of community and mutual support.

Overall, exchange is a fundamental aspect of human interaction and plays a crucial role in shaping economies, societies, and relationships.

So it likely grew out of our social collective / needs especially as society became more complex and grew.

Does that help? Or are you specifically asking, what group species exchange or why humans don't just work together for the greater good like Star Trek or Marxism? Or are does this go back to the question about why aren't we all independent, solo animals and instead cluster in tribes?

Yeah it helped, thanks. I guess I'm also wondering why humans don't work together for the greater good. Is it because of inherent human nature? I heard a theory which said that it's easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism and I wonder why this is. Is it because of human greed and selfishness?

 

[DarkRange55]

Yeah it helped, thanks. I guess I'm also wondering why humans don't work together for the greater good. Is it because of inherent human nature? I heard a theory which said that it's easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism and I wonder why this is. Is it because of human greed and selfishness?

I can pontificate but I'm worried this will open a can of worms on this website…

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I think it'd be accurate if you replaced "trouble" with "suffering"