There are too many religions and too many religious texts

[wildflowers1996]

I don't even think I believe in God, but I feel too ignorant to feel certain of anything.

I just find it difficult to discount how many people claim to have spiritual experiences, the strong need people seem to have for the spiritual, how much faith some people have.

Some things, like nature or music, sometimes make me believe in something spiritual.

The fact we can't completely explain consciousness, or the origin of the universe, sometimes leads me to believe in something spiritual - though I know it's a "God of the gaps" argument.

The fact most of us seem to have a conscience, an innate sense of morality - though admittedly people don't always agree on moral issues.

We seem to have a sense of self (yet can change significantly in some ways) (the soul?) and free will - though these could be illusions - which implies something spiritual

I know there are many alternative explanations for these things. But I see so many people who are so dedicated to their faith/spirituality, and I find it hard not to be influenced. I know because a lot of people believe something, doesn't make it true.

I think I've been very influenced by Christian scaremongering. I know that hell is likely a concept made up to control people. But when people tell you over and over "you need to repent/accept Jesus in your heart/believe in Jesus" to be saved, it's hard not to listen - for me anyway. People seem so SURE they have the Holy Spirit and have been saved.

And there are Christian apologists. People like William Lane Craig, who think believing in Christianity is the most rational worldview based on logical argument/ historical evidence e.g. for the Resurrection. And I feel like I'm not educated enough to recognise the flaws in people like his' arguments, if they are flawed. I am not a historian. I can't weigh up when historical evidence is "good enough" to believe something happened. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - maybe, but who decides what is "extraordinary evidence"?

I feel the problem of evil is a major counter to God's existence, but religious people will just tell you that your sense of morality is flawed and God IS good and often make the argument about "free will" being the reason why bad things happen. If you have a problem with God they will say you are the problem. The God you want to believe in isn't the real God, but the real God IS good - it's you who isn't.

Also, couldn't God exist but just not be good?

I wish I could just force myself to be a Christian, because I'm so scared of going to hell. Maybe if I could actually concentrate enough to read the whole Bible, which people believe is the Word of God, then maybe I'd start believing? But it's not that simple, because there are so many denominations of Christianity, with different, sometimes contradictory, rules. Which one is right?

Or maybe Islam turns out to be true - don't a lot of Muslims think you go to hell for not believing/doing certain things? There are some apologists for Islam too I think.

And there are so many other religions - I think they focus less on hell but I'm not sure. It's all too much to read about; I feel so overwhelmed.

I don't think I can read every religious text, research every denomination, the history of every religion to see how it evolved, the "evidence" for each one - on the offchance one might be right. I don't think I even believe in any of it.

But I'm always thinking - what if I'm wrong? What if I ctb and I DO go to hell? Maybe God does hate me? Or thinks I deserve severe punishment? Maybe I'm just never trying hard enough to "find" God? Maybe I am a bad person?
But if God exists, I feel I don't know how to please Him, because there are SO many rules out there and I don't know which ones are the right ones. I feel I can't even tell right from wrong. I don't know what I'm meant to be doing. If God exists, I feel I don't know what He wants me to do, and prayer doesn't seem to help.

I can't even tell myself "God knows what you're thinking and understands" because some religious people will tell you God can't hear you unless you do xyz.

I know I have OCD but it's about such an intangible thing and eternal hell seems like such a horrific thing I don't know how I can't not worry about it. Even though I'm 99% sure it's not real.

If God exists it feels like He doesn't want me because it's not clear to me what I need to do. I don't know how to have faith; if it's a God-given thing God hasn't given it to me. I don't understand why faith is even a virtue.

I want to just give up worrying about this and feel free to ctb. But my mind will just go "maybe the devil is tricking you into ctb and you'll go to hell". What if there are certain sins I'm not forgiven for? What if I'm not saved because I'm not baptised (I know not all Christians believe you need to be baptised but some do)? etc etc.

I hate this so much.

 

[amra81nz]

Have you considered talking to a priest or something? I personally don't believe any of it and religion is what people just use to cope things they don't know or understand

 

[unabletocope]

Too many religions, only one way of life, your own

 

[wildflowers1996]

Have you considered talking to a priest or something? I personally don't believe any of it and religion is what people just use to cope things they don't know or understand

I wouldn't know who to talk to, because there are so many religious leaders who believe different things :(


Also there seem to be people way more intelligent/educated than me who are Christian, Muslim... some of them scientists
Without God actually intervening somehow what chance do I have knowing what is right

 

[amra81nz]

Trust yourself I guess. Look into yourself and what do you believe right now? Trust your gut instinct sometimes too much information clouds the answer your looking for

 

[wildflowers1996]

Trust yourself I guess. Look into yourself and what do you believe right now? Trust your gut instinct sometimes too much information clouds the answer your looking for

thank you :( I just don't see any reason to trust myself, for so many reasons. I feel so stupid, so ignorant. There are people 1000x cleverer and more educated than me, and they can't seem to agree with one another. My gut instinct might contradict with someone else's. I don't know what's real. I feel so stupid and useless. And I know I'm mentally ill so that probably clouds my judgement too

 

[amra81nz]

Well it's about what's right for you. Someone being more clever or educated does not mean they are right.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

All of those religions are equally false. It's astonishing as to just how many people can get indoctrinated into religion.

Also there seem to be people way more intelligent/educated than me who are Christian, Muslim... some of them scientists
Without God actually intervening somehow what chance do I have knowing what is right

This doesn't really mean anything. There are smart and dumb people in every type of group. There are smart and dumb christians, smart and dumb muslims, smart and dumb atheists and so on. Just because religion has some smart people in it doesn't mean that they're correct. Even the hyper geniuses of this world such as einstein or newton has made mistakes so these people are no exception

 

[davidtorez]

I wouldn't know who to talk to, because there are so many religious leaders who believe different things :(


Also there seem to be people way more intelligent/educated than me who are Christian, Muslim... some of them scientists
Without God actually intervening somehow what chance do I have knowing what is right

For what it's worth, majority of contemporary philosophers and scientists are atheists / agnostic . Not that it automatically makes atheism true , but there would have to be good reasons for these educated people to be non believers .

 

[flightless bird]

I don't even think I believe in God, but I feel too ignorant to feel certain of anything.

I just find it difficult to discount how many people claim to have spiritual experiences, the strong need people seem to have for the spiritual, how much faith some people have.

Some things, like nature or music, sometimes make me believe in something spiritual.

the spirit is true and it is there, you are it.

god or religion are political bullshit, don't waste your time with them.

 

[NSA]

think I've been very influenced by Christian scaremongering. I know that hell is likely a concept made up to control people. But when people tell you over and over "you need to repent/accept Jesus in your heart/believe in Jesus" to be saved, it's hard not to listen - for me anyway. People seem so SURE they have the Holy Spirit and have been saved.

It's all emotion. It's freaking insane how much emotional conditioning influences everything you do. I grew up in a religious household and could never figure out why I could never "hear" God the way all those other well meaning churchgoers said they could. Seems to be my alexythmia is what saved me from all the brainwashing. Lucky i guess. The language they used was always "feel". They "feel" God speaking to them. And we all know "feelings" are always right, right? Lol no.

Beauty in the world doesn't need God to exist. Good thing too, because he/it's doing an awful shit job of keeping the rest of it in check.

 

[MortalityScares]

I don't even think I believe in God, but I feel too ignorant to feel certain of anything.

I just find it difficult to discount how many people claim to have spiritual experiences, the strong need people seem to have for the spiritual, how much faith some people have.

Some things, like nature or music, sometimes make me believe in something spiritual.

The fact we can't completely explain consciousness, or the origin of the universe, sometimes leads me to believe in something spiritual - though I know it's a "God of the gaps" argument.

The fact most of us seem to have a conscience, an innate sense of morality - though admittedly people don't always agree on moral issues.

We seem to have a sense of self (yet can change significantly in some ways) (the soul?) and free will - though these could be illusions - which implies something spiritual

I know there are many alternative explanations for these things. But I see so many people who are so dedicated to their faith/spirituality, and I find it hard not to be influenced. I know because a lot of people believe something, doesn't make it true.

I think I've been very influenced by Christian scaremongering. I know that hell is likely a concept made up to control people. But when people tell you over and over "you need to repent/accept Jesus in your heart/believe in Jesus" to be saved, it's hard not to listen - for me anyway. People seem so SURE they have the Holy Spirit and have been saved.

And there are Christian apologists. People like William Lane Craig, who think believing in Christianity is the most rational worldview based on logical argument/ historical evidence e.g. for the Resurrection. And I feel like I'm not educated enough to recognise the flaws in people like his' arguments, if they are flawed. I am not a historian. I can't weigh up when historical evidence is "good enough" to believe something happened. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - maybe, but who decides what is "extraordinary evidence"?

I feel the problem of evil is a major counter to God's existence, but religious people will just tell you that your sense of morality is flawed and God IS good and often make the argument about "free will" being the reason why bad things happen. If you have a problem with God they will say you are the problem. The God you want to believe in isn't the real God, but the real God IS good - it's you who isn't.

Also, couldn't God exist but just not be good?

I wish I could just force myself to be a Christian, because I'm so scared of going to hell. Maybe if I could actually concentrate enough to read the whole Bible, which people believe is the Word of God, then maybe I'd start believing? But it's not that simple, because there are so many denominations of Christianity, with different, sometimes contradictory, rules. Which one is right?

Or maybe Islam turns out to be true - don't a lot of Muslims think you go to hell for not believing/doing certain things? There are some apologists for Islam too I think.

And there are so many other religions - I think they focus less on hell but I'm not sure. It's all too much to read about; I feel so overwhelmed.

I don't think I can read every religious text, research every denomination, the history of every religion to see how it evolved, the "evidence" for each one - on the offchance one might be right. I don't think I even believe in any of it.

But I'm always thinking - what if I'm wrong? What if I ctb and I DO go to hell? Maybe God does hate me? Or thinks I deserve severe punishment? Maybe I'm just never trying hard enough to "find" God? Maybe I am a bad person?
But if God exists, I feel I don't know how to please Him, because there are SO many rules out there and I don't know which ones are the right ones. I feel I can't even tell right from wrong. I don't know what I'm meant to be doing. If God exists, I feel I don't know what He wants me to do, and prayer doesn't seem to help.

I can't even tell myself "God knows what you're thinking and understands" because some religious people will tell you God can't hear you unless you do xyz.

I know I have OCD but it's about such an intangible thing and eternal hell seems like such a horrific thing I don't know how I can't not worry about it. Even though I'm 99% sure it's not real.

If God exists it feels like He doesn't want me because it's not clear to me what I need to do. I don't know how to have faith; if it's a God-given thing God hasn't given it to me. I don't understand why faith is even a virtue.

I want to just give up worrying about this and feel free to ctb. But my mind will just go "maybe the devil is tricking you into ctb and you'll go to hell". What if there are certain sins I'm not forgiven for? What if I'm not saved because I'm not baptised (I know not all Christians believe you need to be baptised but some do)? etc etc.

I hate this so much.

"I wish I could just force myself to be a Christian, because I'm so scared of going to hell. Maybe if I could actually concentrate enough to read the whole Bible, which people believe is the Word of God, then maybe I'd start believing? But it's not that simple, because there are so many denominations of Christianity, with different, sometimes contradictory, rules. Which one is right?"

Felt this. This past year I've went back to being agnostic after only 2 years of considering converting to Catholicism. My significant other went through this as well, but he stopped believing way before me for a number of reasons.

Since I've came back to being agnostic, had my first hard-hitting death in my family, and have experienced weird disassociation and paranoia due to many factors including drugs, I've been doubting if there even is an afterlife. It's all a bunch of "What ifs', essentially. I'm probably screwed if there's an afterlife with a God present! Then on the other hand, if there is no afterlife I'm lowkey going to be sad because I am very materialistic (Which is a sin in many religions lmao)

I am sorry you're going through all this right now. Just know that I understand you and I am listening. Much love and good luck on your journey <3

 

[JezebelDuLioncourt]

Too many, you say? What then is the right number of religions for you? One? Which one? Ah, you want the one true religion, the one that will reveal to you the mysteries of the universe, you say?

Well, let me tell you this, ducklet...The mystery is that there is no mystery. The solution to the riddle of life in this space and time lies outside this space and time.

There is no God, and you are His prophet.

 

[ringo99]

Religion, the afterlife and god are artificial constructs. Science takes a sledgehammer to superstitions like these everyday and breaks them down one by one. It's better to just accept the truth that there is no heaven and hell after death. The true meaning of life is to simply propagate our species. Nothing more nothing less. If I'm gone there are billions left. All of us here are just tiny, insignificant, inconsequential blips in the cosmos. When you die you cease to exist. It's scary to contemplate a state of non-being but it is what it is

 

[Raindancer]

You are seeking and asking questions and that is a very good thing. Just as much as I have "experienced" God spiritually, I have also felt completely estranged from Him. I couldn't feel a thing no matter how hard I tried. I've also looked into other religions. I personally love to read so I did a lot of studying and for me that led me back to Christ. I cannot tell you how to find or not find a path to God but if you really are unsure and want to feel more sure, there are many videos to watch luckily. Maybe the place to start would be the debates between Christians and atheists. That should give you a broad overview of ideas. Something else I would recommend is praying for God to make himself real to you. If he isn't there you have nothing to lose, but you might get an answer.

 

[SolitudeMan]

Why would a just god punish someone for using their own free will?
Religions are man made. Man invented God because we don't have the answers.
Science can tell you what happens but not why.

 

[MrShino]

I had the same problem when I was really searching for truth and something beyond. Eventually I ended up with Christianity, even tho I was much more open for other world views. As you say, faith is actually a gift according to Ephesians 2:8: 'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.'

People get Christianity wrong oftentimes, as it is not really about rules and regulations, it is actually about receiving the free gift of forgiveness and salvation through faith. The teaching is that we have all fallen short of the standard and laws of God. We have all broken them during our lives, and even the best person in the world in human eyes are not deserving of Heaven. All true churches teaches this at the core, even if they disagree about other things. All we can do is bring our flawed lives to God and acknowledge our need of a Saviour. This is where it is different from other religions, we cannot accomplish this on our own.

I mean, if you have given up on your life anyway, why not give it a real chance. You might as well give your life to God. If you are uncertain, you can always go and talk to a pastor or a priest of a trustworthy church near you and speak with them about this. They should be able to help you. People speak about receiving the Holy Spirit when they give their lives to Jesus and accept Him as their Saviour. If anything, it is better to have faith in something good than nothing at all in my opinion. I rather live my life believing in God and be proven wrong in the end, than living my life without believing and then be proven wrong.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

All what those "religious people" know is nothing. Everything is based on beliefs and nothing has ever been proven. Logically if there was that one god who created everything then I would assume that religion and beliefs would be sth like natural instincts and almost the same for everyone. Rather it's the opposite, there are so many different religions and beliefs and many of them are not practiced any more.

Think about it clearly, make your own mind and decision what you wanna believe or not.

Religion can be a kind of coping mechanism but it's also there to control the masses of people by fear using indoctrination of beliefs.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Honestly, I worry to an extent too. I was raised with ideas like- suicides go to hell and there is a heaven where the majority of my family now are. So, I do sympathise with how you feel. I lean more towards atheism now but I just wish I could feel sure. Doubts about the existence of hell are enormous doubts to have!

I suppose I try to reason with the following:

God is superior to us- clearly. There's no way I'm going to be able to 'fake' being religious. God already knows what I think of them and why. Personally, I don't think my judgements are unfair. I suspect the argument will be- I have no right to judge them. Fair enough but, I don't want to willingly just accept everything. Maybe to the extent that I will have to accept punishment for that. I'd rather be true to myself though.

God in some part made us ourselves. We were built to have inquisitive minds and question things. Why punish something for doing what you designed it to do? That's messed up.

I'm not willing to just blindly obey interpretations of what a supposed God or prophet of God said. Interpretations that change- how does that work? Are holy people directly employed and trusted by God to modify their wishes?

Some of those people are deeply corrupt bordering on evil I would say- at least in their actions. All the peadophile priests who molested children etc. If they seriously get forgiven for that, yet someone who lived a largely good, altruistic life yet didn't have a strong faith gets punished- there's something wrong.

Some of the kindest, warmest, most altruistic people I've known have in fact been atheists. Again- if they get punished- just because they weren't part of the God club, there's something the matter- surely? Is that really supposed to be someone's greatest attribute? They believe and say they're sorry when they sin?

I doubt I'm getting in to heaven whether I suicide or not. I doubt it would hinge on that alone by now. God already realises I pretty much hate them and resent them for how they created this world. (The Christian) God clearly doesn't like criticism- the whole story of Lucifer being sent to hell forever for a mere disagreement. I feel like I'm already screwed either way.

But sure- any fix-all solution is appealing. Believe in Jesus and everything will be ok. Take these pills and all your pain will go away. Of course people who are fighting and struggling just want a break. Just want to know that there is a solution out there. One where they put their faith in something else and get taken care of. It's a hugely appealing idea. Not sure it means it's real though.

I know of people in tremendous pain at my parents church. I guess their faith still does something for them but it's not all together practical. It just seems to give them a higher tolerance or some kind of martyr complex to accept their pain. I'm not really up for accepting more pain!

I guess it makes me curious as to why religions have lasted so long. It's kind of embarassing as a species if they all turn out to be bogus. Of course, for the non believers, we're equally screwed if it all turns out to be true- or presumably, we picked the wrong one!

I do think religions closely mirror civil law though. I think they were largely established by the wealthy, ruling classes so- that makes me think- even if they originally were based on an actual God/God's son/prophet, they have had plenty of clauses added that were beneficial for the rich folk to keep the poor folk in line.

Plus- there's the whole science side of things. If humans are Gods favourite or pet project. If God really was/is in need of a devoted fan club- why put dinosaurs here for 165 million years? As far as we're aware- they didn't seem to worship a God. Seems like a long time to wait to be adored.

But, I am quite similar to you in that I'm not a complete sceptic. I do have a spiritual bent. I even have experiences in my own life I can't sufficiently explain. So, I have an open mind but unfortunately, that does include fear of both hell, heaven/afterlife to some extent- what on earth do you do forever? And, God.

 

[sombie]

The more you study religion the more you realise its all made up,the guilt you have is very similar to mine but I blame my religious upbringing for having that mindset,indoctrination is real,just look at cults and people who escape from them,even if there is an afterlife there is no definitive one,is it Catholic or protestant?Muslim or Hindu?Buddhist or Taoist?no one has the answer and the likelihood of it being real is zero,God doesn't exist and if they do they are a cruel God that doesn't deserve worship,my advice would be to do meditation and find a quiet place to rest your mind if only for a couple minutes a day.

 

[Stoked]

Every religion is man-made. Not only there are so many religions, there's also so many denominations and sects. Which version of god? So convenient that it's either someone had been born into the "right" religion, or that every religion's fundamentalists's and "people who have had religious experience"'s god turned to be the one true god? lol. Pascal's wager don't work. Know what religions teach people? Fatalism and accepting that there's pre-determinism and afterlife (as per each religion's prescriptions), and to sooth people that there is salvation aka reasons for all the sufferings (in short: cope). No matter what, bla bla bla will save you. That everything will be worth it in the end. To give people who have no purpose in life a sense of purpose

If you're so inclined, perhaps it'd be more helpful/useful to explore spirituality than theology/religions. Deism, pantheism. The universe and ourselves are our own god. Nothing else matters. No sky daddy watching over you jacking off and sending people to hell for being gay or killing themselves

 

[sserafim]

It's all emotion. It's freaking insane how much emotional conditioning influences everything you do. I grew up in a religious household and could never figure out why I could never "hear" God the way all those other well meaning churchgoers said they could. Seems to be my alexythmia is what saved me from all the brainwashing. Lucky i guess. The language they used was always "feel". They "feel" God speaking to them. And we all know "feelings" are always right, right? Lol no.

Beauty in the world doesn't need God to exist. Good thing too, because he/it's doing an awful shit job of keeping the rest of it in check.

Sounds like a cult to me

 

[watchdog]

Sounds like a cult to me

Right? The way some parts of it are played out are just weird. I was at church with my mom yesterday and the father was talking something about "…eating his flesh and drinking his blood." (The "He" being Jesus) It's just so weird to me.

 

[doneforlife]

Honestly, I worry to an extent too. I was raised with ideas like- suicides go to hell and there is a heaven where the majority of my family now are. So, I do sympathise with how you feel. I lean more towards atheism now but I just wish I could feel sure. Doubts about the existence of hell are enormous doubts to have!

I suppose I try to reason with the following:

God is superior to us- clearly. There's no way I'm going to be able to 'fake' being religious. God already knows what I think of them and why. Personally, I don't think my judgements are unfair. I suspect the argument will be- I have no right to judge them. Fair enough but, I don't want to willingly just accept everything. Maybe to the extent that I will have to accept punishment for that. I'd rather be true to myself though.

God in some part made us ourselves. We were built to have inquisitive minds and question things. Why punish something for doing what you designed it to do? That's messed up.

I'm not willing to just blindly obey interpretations of what a supposed God or prophet of God said. Interpretations that change- how does that work? Are holy people directly employed and trusted by God to modify their wishes?

Some of those people are deeply corrupt bordering on evil I would say- at least in their actions. All the peadophile priests who molested children etc. If they seriously get forgiven for that, yet someone who lived a largely good, altruistic life yet didn't have a strong faith gets punished- there's something wrong.

Some of the kindest, warmest, most altruistic people I've known have in fact been atheists. Again- if they get punished- just because they weren't part of the God club, there's something the matter- surely? Is that really supposed to be someone's greatest attribute? They believe and say they're sorry when they sin?

I doubt I'm getting in to heaven whether I suicide or not. I doubt it would hinge on that alone by now. God already realises I pretty much hate them and resent them for how they created this world. (The Christian) God clearly doesn't like criticism- the whole story of Lucifer being sent to hell forever for a mere disagreement. I feel like I'm already screwed either way.

But sure- any fix-all solution is appealing. Believe in Jesus and everything will be ok. Take these pills and all your pain will go away. Of course people who are fighting and struggling just want a break. Just want to know that there is a solution out there. One where they put their faith in something else and get taken care of. It's a hugely appealing idea. Not sure it means it's real though.

I know of people in tremendous pain at my parents church. I guess their faith still does something for them but it's not all together practical. It just seems to give them a higher tolerance or some kind of martyr complex to accept their pain. I'm not really up for accepting more pain!

I guess it makes me curious as to why religions have lasted so long. It's kind of embarassing as a species if they all turn out to be bogus. Of course, for the non believers, we're equally screwed if it all turns out to be true- or presumably, we picked the wrong one!

I do think religions closely mirror civil law though. I think they were largely established by the wealthy, ruling classes so- that makes me think- even if they originally were based on an actual God/God's son/prophet, they have had plenty of clauses added that were beneficial for the rich folk to keep the poor folk in line.

Plus- there's the whole science side of things. If humans are Gods favourite or pet project. If God really was/is in need of a devoted fan club- why put dinosaurs here for 165 million years? As far as we're aware- they didn't seem to worship a God. Seems like a long time to wait to be adored.

But, I am quite similar to you in that I'm not a complete sceptic. I do have a spiritual bent. I even have experiences in my own life I can't sufficiently explain. So, I have an open mind but unfortunately, that does include fear of both hell, heaven/afterlife to some extent- what on earth do you do forever? And, God.

Well said. Religion aside , the only thing that surprises me is how orderly everything is. As if someone has programmed it. From universe , galaxies to quantum mechanics. Have you ever wondered why there is gravity ? I mean , it's property of a body(mass) to attract other body. We established that the force with which it attracts is proportional to it's mass and inversely proportional to it's distance. We derived a mathematical representation of that force. But we never figured out why all bodies have this property. All the physics of the universe is discovery of "how" . And it stops there. The "why" is yet to be answered.

We are busy writing our own definitions of God , believing we can , while the truth may be that , we can't even begin to comprehend what that power is like. We haven't even reached another end of our solar system and yet here we are trying to define the entity responsible for designing the whole universe comprising billions of such systems.

 

[Oliver]

I believe that there are things/phenomenon that science can't (yet) explain, but I don't believe in any man-made religion.