Discussion The Trolley Problem

[leloyon]

 

[tooBadTooLate]

 

[Namelesa]

I got 60, I am clearly your moral superior :P

Guess I am more evil than you two >:3


I am going to mention some of my choices in the game actually for fun.

Spoiler: Some of the choices I made in variations from that game

sorry but I am not suffering without money. Its like the only hope I have with escaping my parent's entrapment

Personally think better to do this as there will be less suffering inflicted on the 5 than the 1.

Obviously kill the 5 as they wanted that. Anyone who disagrees is stinky pro-lifer

Selfishly I would want to kill myself here but I will let the trolley kill the clones of me so they don't have to suffer as they would be suicidal like me.

:P

Same thing with the clone question.

Personally think this is the option with the least suffering. Being on a trolley for eternity sounds like torture.

Others I didn't include screenshots for as we limited to 8 per post.

• For the mona lisa I would kill the 5 if it was the only copy of it and it getting destroyed means we can't see it again ever but as its just the original it can be destroyed.
• Obviously for the one where you sacrifice yourself for the 5 I did kill myself.
• For the the bribe one I did take it and saved the rich guy cus I need that money to help myself.
• For the cousin one I didn't care about one of my first cousins dying compared to 3 second ones as I don't care about any of my extended family.
• For the best friend one, I saved the best friend as if I had one currently then my whole happiness would be reliant on them and I don't want to suffer any extra losing them. If I was able to kill myself tho then sure I would sacrifice them for the 5 as then I don't have to suffer from the loss.
• For the worst enemy one, if we saying your worst enemy is the person you hate the most, then yea would totally let them die. Honestly death is too good for them but at least others wouldn't suffer from them if they are dead.
• For the speed up one I did pull the leaver as to potential lessen the pain from the death and shorten it.
• For the baby vs 5 elderly one, I killed the baby.
• For the can't see one, I did nothing as I feel like I shouldn't be allowed to make a decision that effects others if I don't even know fully what is happening.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Or as I suggested, why not pull the lever half-way so the trolley can go neither way and as such it jumps the tracks and hits none of the people on the tracks

The question isn't for you I guess. You can't help but think outside the confines of the problem. Remember it's an artificial scenario.

But if you aren't thinking emotionally... why does saving 5 lives seem better than saving 1?

I don't how to answer that. Is it not axiomatic that more lives saved is better than fewer (again, just considering numbers and nothing more)?

 

[Dejected 55]

The question isn't for you I guess. You can't help but think outside the confines of the problem. Remember it's an artificial scenario.

I don't how to answer that. Is it not axiomatic that more lives saved is better than fewer (again, just considering numbers and nothing more)?

In terms of numeric value, 5>1 is true... but while 5 apples might be better than 1 apple, having 5 STDs isn't better than having 1 STD. ;)

The point being... without considering other aspects of all of the people... it feels arbitrary to say saving 5 people is better than saving 1. What if the 5 people are 95 years old while the 1 person is 20. I'm not saying old people aren't worth saving... I'm just saying even the older person on the track might favor you saving the 1 younger person who has more life ahead of him/her.

 

[hedezev4]

For the standard trolley problem, my solution is: do nothing while inaction has more benefit than action.
That is, in the absolute majority of cases, I would do nothing, because action most likely means prison.



But i don't like how standard versions of this problem are set up. In the real world, actions have consequences, and I would not press a lever if afterwards I would go to prison for murder. My version of this problem is like this: the train always goes on track 3, where there are never any people, but if you decide not to redirect it to track 1 or 2, you will face extreme suffering or some irreversible horror. But if you choose 1 or 2, there will be no consequences. In this way, we put choosing track 1 and 2 on equal terms, and here you can honestly judge what matters to you.

This is how it turned out in my version:

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I think differently than those that answered in that trolly website and from threads here on this website also i think differently from people on this website.

Absurd Trolley Problems

Every problem is the trolley problem.

neal.fun

I decided to think from first principles or that to me absolutely 100% are facts after thinking and researching after a long time. Some things that seem like facts to me are

1. Me suffering extremely or constant unbearable pain is the worst thing , by far outweighs any pleasurable addiction. This is one of my top goals avoid me suffering constant unbearable pain at all costs. What is worth even 5 minutes of the worst constant worst pain every second. To me nothing is even worth 3 seconds of the worst pain . Anyone can be captured by a gang and put in a room with nothing to do and tortured. Just sitting in an empty small locked room with nothing but a toilet water and bread is torture proving life is bad. How many hours days or weeks will suffering in an empty room become unbearable even though u have the basics shelter food water a toilet?1.6 million people in the US attempt suicide per year with brutal methods like guns showing how bad life is.

2. Me every human will die soon cause life is short. How fast did the last 5 years pass by?

3. There are many horrible things that can happen to me & any human any day.

4. A human is just cells the same cells as other animals.

5. Nothing matters. What will matter in 1000 years a trillion years? Life has no objective meaning no objective purpose.
But "enjoy yourself ". Yeah break ur back every day working a job and chores dealing with problems for a few fleeting minutes of "enjoyment" that are not worth the worst torture possible that im risking to "enjoy myself". This "enjoy myself " is what caused me to not see reality like these principles and distract me waste my time when I could have been working to get my suicide method and mindset ready to kill myself


6. Every thing dies decays breaks down becomes disordered even me a human humanity life the sun earth the universe: the law of entropy the 2nd law of thermodynamics
7. So many horrible things so much evil so many lies scams in the world. For example this evil suicide prohibition that keeps one in the prison unable to escape extreme torture
8. These principles so far and many others show me that nothing matters or should matter to me except me avoiding constant unbearable pain and getting my suicide ready to go and killing myself asap. Non-existence forever is the ultimate perfection

9 . Many more including specific personal horrors

 

[Pluto]

 

[EmptyBottle]

It's really an absurd premise. There's no scenario in the real world where you'd be in this position and not be able to at least try to untie that single person and divert the trolley so that it hits no one. Also, why is the trolley engineer not slowing down/stopping the trolley?

It had to take a while to tie all those people down on the tracks... Who did that? Where is that person or persons? How come nobody saw that happening and tried to stop that? Why is it all on you to make this decision?

Whatever you do, it's not your fault. It's not really an ethical dilemma. It's an ethical dilemma if your choice involves ethics... which this one doesn't. No matter what you do the situation isn't your fault unless you are the one who set it all up in which case you are already unethical!

Why are you the only one there in a position to help anyway? Where is everyone else? Why can't others help? It's nonsense the more you think about it.

I don't know what I'd do in the real world, but if anyone ever asked me this as a question to solve so they could evaluate or judge me... I would just walk away from whatever interview situation it was a part of because I don't need to deal with such a person for more than a few minutes.

that is an excellent question. If they tied themselves for a CTB pact... then that makes the dilemma even more complex. Whether to save them from an almost non method or not interrupt their CTB plans would likely annoy several of the people ("pro lifer!" shouts vs "aaaargh" shouts)

Also, I have ridden trams and they go at a moderate pace, so they may be able to brake fast and either not hit anyone.. or hit less than 5 ppl.

Plus, the trolley route goes around anyway, so pulling the lever will cause more fear to the 5 ppl in their nearly inevitable doom (assuming some chance of survival due to bodies slowing the trolley)

Who the fuck would save the goddamn Mona Lisa over five people?!

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Okay I'm spoiling more of these so uh, spoiler:

Spoiler

I cannot believe this is nearly half-half jfc
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I need to believe this is the result of trolling, but...11 million votes?!
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"77% of people think five eldery lives are worth less than one baby's" lol
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This is where I think everyone's brains broke...
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for the CO2 problem... smashing the trolley could lead to a new one being built imo... not to mention why would I sabotage a working trolley vs persuade the operators to make it green instead.

As for the low vision thing... I wouldn't want to risk causing more damage so I did nothing.

 

[leloyon]

Spoiler: contains drawn violence (MSPaint stick figure tier gore but still)

trolleysolution.jpg