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Hey Guest,
As you know, censorship around the world has been ramping up at an alarming pace. The UK and OFCOM has singled out this community and have been focusing its censorship efforts here. It takes a good amount of resources to maintain the infrastructure for our community and to resist this censorship. We would appreciate any and all donations.
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hobbydevil
Anxiously biting fingernails.
- Sep 8, 2019
- 60
Regarding online friendships/relationships vs IRL:
IMO there is a huge, huge difference in quality, at least for me personally... and it becomes obvious to me when I go from only making significant connections online to meeting people I can truly connect with in "real life" for the first time.
As in, making friends online is better than spending time with people I don't like being around IRL, but spending time with friends I actually feel close to IRL will always feel way better than just chatting with them.
To me chatting always has an element of loneliness to it when I can't completely ignore that I'm actually alone in my apartment, probably even in a different country and time zone than my friend(s).
I say this as someone who spends too much time online and is pretty isolated from people IRL, at least emotionally. Internet friendships are of great value to me and my main source of... Connection to other people. I do definitely consider them real friendships.
But even so, conversations online got nothing on spending time with friends IRL, as I just recently found out again.
A couple of months ago now I met a few people online I connected with instantly.
I was very fortunate to meet some of them IRL for the first time a few weeks ago.
There is just no way for me to even really compare it... Being with these people IRL, sitting next to each other, in the same room, being able to look at each other... It felt so different and so much more real and meaningful. I really struggle to get used to only chatting or even video chatting with them now, and again I say this as someone who used to be pretty content with having all of my most meaningful friendships be online...
I feel like what I just rambled about is so obvious, like duh spending time IRL feels more connected and real... Just goes to show much time I spend online I guess lol.
IMO there is a huge, huge difference in quality, at least for me personally... and it becomes obvious to me when I go from only making significant connections online to meeting people I can truly connect with in "real life" for the first time.
As in, making friends online is better than spending time with people I don't like being around IRL, but spending time with friends I actually feel close to IRL will always feel way better than just chatting with them.
To me chatting always has an element of loneliness to it when I can't completely ignore that I'm actually alone in my apartment, probably even in a different country and time zone than my friend(s).
I say this as someone who spends too much time online and is pretty isolated from people IRL, at least emotionally. Internet friendships are of great value to me and my main source of... Connection to other people. I do definitely consider them real friendships.
But even so, conversations online got nothing on spending time with friends IRL, as I just recently found out again.
A couple of months ago now I met a few people online I connected with instantly.
I was very fortunate to meet some of them IRL for the first time a few weeks ago.
There is just no way for me to even really compare it... Being with these people IRL, sitting next to each other, in the same room, being able to look at each other... It felt so different and so much more real and meaningful. I really struggle to get used to only chatting or even video chatting with them now, and again I say this as someone who used to be pretty content with having all of my most meaningful friendships be online...
I feel like what I just rambled about is so obvious, like duh spending time IRL feels more connected and real... Just goes to show much time I spend online I guess lol.
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The things I post here, no one in my real life. Can stand the negativity of that part of me.
So an online relationship is more documented recorded and can be more emotionally revealed
Apathy79
Mage
- Oct 13, 2019
- 512
I've lived a hermit-style life for the last decade. I see people I know roughly twice a year on average and otherwise spend life alone, too much of it online.
There are people I've chatted with virtually every day online for over a decade. Some I've met once or twice, and some I've never met. They know my thoughts far better than anyone else in the world. In fact, if you asked them what my opinion is about basically anything, they can explain it pretty much as well as I can.
There are others I don't speak to online ever, but see a handful of times a year and have memories with since childhood. We haven't really had in-depth chats about anything - most of what I think about everyday they have no clue about. We hang out and enjoy each other's company, largely cracking jokes and making fun of each other.
When I lost someone from the first group who I'd spoken to daily for over a decade, the grief lasted a few minutes, I collected myself and tried to console others. There wasn't enough emotional attachment there to really get me down for a long time and I got on with my life virtually unaffected. When I lost someone from the second group, it was devastating. I had so many memories with them, they were one of the only people I had real connection with, and my life hasn't been the same since.
I think you can develop relationships online which enable you to understand someone's thoughts to an extent that just isn't realistic in the real world. That has it's advantages. But the extent to which true human connection is possible online is extremely limited relative to the real world. There's something about being with people and sharing experiences that is so much more powerful than understanding how they think that just can't be replicated online.
There are people I've chatted with virtually every day online for over a decade. Some I've met once or twice, and some I've never met. They know my thoughts far better than anyone else in the world. In fact, if you asked them what my opinion is about basically anything, they can explain it pretty much as well as I can.
There are others I don't speak to online ever, but see a handful of times a year and have memories with since childhood. We haven't really had in-depth chats about anything - most of what I think about everyday they have no clue about. We hang out and enjoy each other's company, largely cracking jokes and making fun of each other.
When I lost someone from the first group who I'd spoken to daily for over a decade, the grief lasted a few minutes, I collected myself and tried to console others. There wasn't enough emotional attachment there to really get me down for a long time and I got on with my life virtually unaffected. When I lost someone from the second group, it was devastating. I had so many memories with them, they were one of the only people I had real connection with, and my life hasn't been the same since.
I think you can develop relationships online which enable you to understand someone's thoughts to an extent that just isn't realistic in the real world. That has it's advantages. But the extent to which true human connection is possible online is extremely limited relative to the real world. There's something about being with people and sharing experiences that is so much more powerful than understanding how they think that just can't be replicated online.
Mr2005
Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
- Sep 25, 2018
- 3,622
I'll always have a problem with this for personal reasons. Had I been on forums the year of my username I wouldn't be here now. I don't have a good reason why I wasn't. Did I not know of them? I don't know. Now everyone lives on their phone so just to go outside and see it is endlessly triggering.
People hate me in the real world because of my awful appearance so it is easier for me to talk to people online .
MeltingHeart
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2019
- 2,151
Mr2005
Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
- Sep 25, 2018
- 3,622
I mean it potentially could have saved my life. It was so simple it hurts to think about. Everytime there's eighteen year old I wish that had been me and I'd be fine now. It's horrendous but no less than I deserve. I have no excuses but it's so easy now even I couldn't fail. "Alexa give me the names and phone numbers of all the plastic surgeons you can find". Done. No waiting around for parents to sort it out and wrecking my life in the meantime. I was meant to be a grownup but I was just a kid.
What would have happened I still don't really know. How is that even possible? It's incompetence of the highest order. It's what happens when you put things off again and again. I'm still doing it now getting my method together. I don't really want to do it but I have to know what might have happened and I might not be able to live with the consequences. I'm an absolute idiot and couldn't possibly hate myself more
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MeltingHeart
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2019
- 2,151
oh im sorry, sorry if i bought it up again by asking! i have a similar feeling of a few factors that would have sent me on a different and fine path, rather than this one :(
Mr2005
Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
- Sep 25, 2018
- 3,622
I just added a bit more. Now I've said it I don't have to write it again. I can just sent someone here whenever they ask so you've done me a favour
This is one of the things I teach to my students in one of the units I have to teach them - we look at the difference between Face to Face (FtF) and Computer Mediated Communication (CMC).
The way we get to know a person is through Self-Disclosure, which is basically slowly revealing information about yourself to another person in a reciprocal fashion. In essence, you take turns and have to show some skill in it. I always use the example of if the first thing you tell a person is one of your deepest secrets, then it's going to come across as incredibly strange and they won't feel comfortable to Self-Disclose something back to you.
So with FtF communication we have all the other things that come along with it - things such as eye contact, tone of voice, body language and touch. These are things that help us to communicate with people. (Imagine the statement 'You're such a bitch' said in a higher pitch, giggly tone compared to a dead pan one). Now these extra Cues that we have in FtF relationships are obviously missing online which, according to some researchers, leads to two possibilities.
The first one is the Reduced Cues Theory that was first discussed by Sproull and Kessler. These guys suggest that online communication is worse because there are no cues. People become deindividuated and anonymous online, which can allow them to be arseholes. We do see it often when people "troll" and say horrible shit to eachother. Because the communication is blunt and doesn't have these subtleties people are less like to Self-Disclose.
The alternative suggestion is the Hyper-Personal Model which suggests that Self-Disclosure can actually happen faster online. If you can talk to someone and you aren't inhibited by these cues then sometimes you can get to know people quicker - think of us all on this forum. I've told very, very few people about the way I feel but I've told you guys and you're strangers.
In my eyes, these two distinctions obviously do happen very clearly, but it's oversimplified. These explanations assume that it's one or the other, when there are loads of different ways that we can communicate online. Most of the time, it is with people we know in the real world and to some extent those we have the same rules for self-disclosing information. I see a lot of the kids I teach who have hours and hours of screen time on their phones everyday and are incredibly popular. I also see kids who aren't as popular who still have hours on their phones chatting to people they do or don't know in the real world. Again, using ourselves as an example, you can't deny there is some benefit to CMC - we have what I think is quite a nice community here. At the same time, I can see that for some kids the over-reliance on their phones has led to a lack of ability to communicate effectively in the real world.
I do believe that social media is another kettle of fish. Growing up, I obviously had the common social media platforms but I've been off all social media for the past 5 months or so. I'll be honest, it hasn't made me any happier to be off it, and I'm not sure how it made me feel being on it. It's natural that people would only put the good parts of their life on social media so I do think it's damaging to a certain extent, but their can also be benefits.
Hope you all enjoyed your little lesson, that slowly turned into a rant.
The way we get to know a person is through Self-Disclosure, which is basically slowly revealing information about yourself to another person in a reciprocal fashion. In essence, you take turns and have to show some skill in it. I always use the example of if the first thing you tell a person is one of your deepest secrets, then it's going to come across as incredibly strange and they won't feel comfortable to Self-Disclose something back to you.
So with FtF communication we have all the other things that come along with it - things such as eye contact, tone of voice, body language and touch. These are things that help us to communicate with people. (Imagine the statement 'You're such a bitch' said in a higher pitch, giggly tone compared to a dead pan one). Now these extra Cues that we have in FtF relationships are obviously missing online which, according to some researchers, leads to two possibilities.
The first one is the Reduced Cues Theory that was first discussed by Sproull and Kessler. These guys suggest that online communication is worse because there are no cues. People become deindividuated and anonymous online, which can allow them to be arseholes. We do see it often when people "troll" and say horrible shit to eachother. Because the communication is blunt and doesn't have these subtleties people are less like to Self-Disclose.
The alternative suggestion is the Hyper-Personal Model which suggests that Self-Disclosure can actually happen faster online. If you can talk to someone and you aren't inhibited by these cues then sometimes you can get to know people quicker - think of us all on this forum. I've told very, very few people about the way I feel but I've told you guys and you're strangers.
In my eyes, these two distinctions obviously do happen very clearly, but it's oversimplified. These explanations assume that it's one or the other, when there are loads of different ways that we can communicate online. Most of the time, it is with people we know in the real world and to some extent those we have the same rules for self-disclosing information. I see a lot of the kids I teach who have hours and hours of screen time on their phones everyday and are incredibly popular. I also see kids who aren't as popular who still have hours on their phones chatting to people they do or don't know in the real world. Again, using ourselves as an example, you can't deny there is some benefit to CMC - we have what I think is quite a nice community here. At the same time, I can see that for some kids the over-reliance on their phones has led to a lack of ability to communicate effectively in the real world.
I do believe that social media is another kettle of fish. Growing up, I obviously had the common social media platforms but I've been off all social media for the past 5 months or so. I'll be honest, it hasn't made me any happier to be off it, and I'm not sure how it made me feel being on it. It's natural that people would only put the good parts of their life on social media so I do think it's damaging to a certain extent, but their can also be benefits.
Hope you all enjoyed your little lesson, that slowly turned into a rant.
Sensei
剣道家
- Nov 4, 2019
- 6,336
Many good points in this thread. I'd like to add that the online world doesn't always have to mirror or merge with the real world. It can also serve as a complement for the real world. There are mentions of finding friends online, but it can also be about finding contexts, so to spek. I go to forums online not necessarily to find friends but to explore topics I can't explore in real life. For many years I frequented political forums simply because there were no people who were interested or knowledgeable enough available in my surroundings. I'm here for the same reasons, obviously. Outside psychiatric care, there's only one person who knows I'm suicidal, and she has suffered trauma because of a suicide so I don't want to bother her anymore. I need to discuss these difficult topics, and I can only do it here.
Online is like writing a diary together with other people. It is not that far removed from real people. It is like in the old days. when you have a pen friend on the other side of the planet and you tell them everything in letters, takes 2 weeks to get to that person.
Then the pen friend invites you over and allows you to stay and you can get away from a war torn area. This is why I get so many sub saharan african males friending me on facebook and calling me on messenger all the time. Totally annoying but I understand the desperation.
Online communication is like writing diaries. Who knows maybe our forum and its suicide conversations will be famous one day when people look back at what we had to go through to get MAID legalized for anyone who is suffering too much, agonizing all the time and generally not able to enjoy life. Life without joy is what we are confronted with, this is why we are on this forum.Something or somebody, has killed our joy. We have tried a lot of avenues to get it back, it did not work. Nothing helps. This is why we need legal intervention so we do not have to brutally attempt to kill ourselves, try to stay legal and not allow others to help us, and fail time and time again.
Then the pen friend invites you over and allows you to stay and you can get away from a war torn area. This is why I get so many sub saharan african males friending me on facebook and calling me on messenger all the time. Totally annoying but I understand the desperation.
Online communication is like writing diaries. Who knows maybe our forum and its suicide conversations will be famous one day when people look back at what we had to go through to get MAID legalized for anyone who is suffering too much, agonizing all the time and generally not able to enjoy life. Life without joy is what we are confronted with, this is why we are on this forum.Something or somebody, has killed our joy. We have tried a lot of avenues to get it back, it did not work. Nothing helps. This is why we need legal intervention so we do not have to brutally attempt to kill ourselves, try to stay legal and not allow others to help us, and fail time and time again.
Sad_Autistic_boy_101
When I die, you'll love me.
- Nov 19, 2019
- 453
The online word is deffo an important part of my life, I'm autistic so I really struggle with social interaction, and so online is my only method of communication, without the online world, I would have no one, I don;t have any friends in the real world and I don;t get on with my family. People I have met online are like family to me, I have planned to meet up with someone I met online, I know people don't advise but but if I die I can't complain as it's a wish come true.
Online is unreal and disconnected. You can be anyone you want to be. Whereas this may at first glance be false, at a deeper level it often allows people's true nature to surface, be it good or bad. Many people can't cope with real world relationships because of their issues but online all this is hidden. Online a relationship moves from being physical to being purely intellectual. Again, there are good and bad things about this.
But relationships formed online often don't translate to real life because of this. In fact relationships formed in any situation often don't survive a change of situation. Look at the whole holiday romance thing.
But relationships formed online often don't translate to real life because of this. In fact relationships formed in any situation often don't survive a change of situation. Look at the whole holiday romance thing.
