Help The longer I am suicidal and suffer, the less seriously I am taken by my therapist. Is this normal?

[http-410]

It was incredibly difficult for me to open up to my therapist about suicide for the first time around 2020, and it was always very difficult for me to talk about this topic afterwards. I downplayed it for a long time, but when they realized how serious it was, they actually seemed concerned. But I think they were relatively helpless, because the suicidality is not the cause, but only a symptom of my problems. Now I have the impression of being taken less (or barely) seriously the longer I live in spite of my suffering, even though my condition is steadily getting worse.

But I suppose at some point, even as a professional, you become jaded.

To be honest, I also don't see how my therapist can help me in this regard (being suicidal/having agonizing psychache), as we have never been able to resolve the underlying issues. On the one hand, I can understand that at some point you get fed up with the subject. Meanwhile, we also no longer address the topic (suicide) - I, because I know that I not only burden my therapist with it, but also bother them. And as I said, I don't know what the point is. But it bothers me 24/7, and I've noticed how my risk-taking behavior has changed over the past few years in that I'm not only exposing myself more often, but also to more deadly risks.

Why they don't bring it up anymore I don't know, but I respect their decision and I don't want to draw their attention again. I think they are overwhelmed or suppressing the issue, because they know I'm getting worse - at least that's what I said several times. But apparently I'm not taken seriously when I say that, what else am I supposed to do to be taken seriously, kill myself? Make a half-assed attempt?

I wonder if therapists should not be more professional in dealing with this issue... Shouldn't the topic at least be asked about periodically? Or is that redundant if you are "chronically" suicidal?

I just don't feel like I'm being taken seriously anymore, but if I brought it up, they would probably get mad (again) or threaten to end therapy. I wonder if they have accepted that they can't help me. It seems to me that they are waiting for it like a vulture, maybe they would even be relieved. I suspect their concern has given way to disinterest, helplessness and/or anger. This is consistent with what I have read about counter-transference in therapists dealing with chronic suicidal people. Only I wonder what I have to do to be taken seriously? Unfortunately I can't find another therapist and the one I have now will probably be the last...

I'm fucking stuck.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

It does sound like counter-transference, which does happen in therapy. Let's look at it this way, if you don't mind. It might sound like a weird question, but what would you want to achieve by forcing your therapist to take you seriously? I mean, if they do get really worried about you, what are the positives that you hope will result from that? Just so that we can see if there are maybe other ways of achieving that, except for hurting yourself.

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

It sounds very disheartening, I'm sorry to hear that you're not being taken seriously. Even if it's difficult, a therapist should try to meet the client where they're at, with understanding. Do you feel like they don't care about the underlying issues?

I know that I not only burden my therapist with it, but also bother them.

Does the therapist do anything that leads you to feel this way?

 

[http-410]

It does sound like counter-transference, which does happen in therapy. Let's look at it this way, if you don't mind. It might sound like a weird question, but what would you want to achieve by forcing your therapist to take you seriously? I mean, if they do get really worried about you, what are the positives that you hope will result from that? Just so that we can see if there are maybe other ways of achieving that, except for hurting yourself.

It's not about them being concerned about me. I have experienced how overconcerned they were, which did me absolutely no good - I felt controlled and like I was being crushed by them.

I would like for my anguish to at least be seen and taken seriously, in the sense that therapy sessions to not just be once or twice a month, and for us to develop strategies to help me deal with the psychache/suicidality (better), especially when there can be no regular sessions due to extended vacations. I have asked all of this several times, and they know full well that extended absences usually make me worse. But we never even found any solution. On the contrary, lately I often felt as if I had been brushed off (presumably because they don't know what to do themselves). I realize how urgent and more help I actually need. I even said last time that I feel bad because I don't get the help I need, but that was also ignored.

Do you feel like they don't care about the underlying issues?

Actually, I think they do care about the underlying issues. However, I suppose my problems are probably too complex for them and we have only ever scratched the surface. We also always jump from one problem to another without having really worked through one properly - probably because we don't get any further after a certain point.

Does the therapist do anything that leads you to feel this way?

They had said several times that they couldn't sleep well because of worry about me and therefore couldn't work well.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

I would like for my anguish to at least be seen and taken seriously, in the sense that therapy sessions to not just be once or twice a month, and for us to develop strategies to help me deal with the psychache/suicidality (better), especially when there can be no regular sessions due to extended vacations. I have asked all of this several times, and they know full well that extended absences usually make me worse. But we never even found any solution. On the contrary, lately I often felt as if I had been brushed off (presumably because they don't know what to do themselves). I realize how urgent and more help I actually need. I even said last time that I feel bad because I don't get the help I need, but that was also ignored.

Oh, I see. That is a really tough situation. I think it is possible that your therapist really is at a loss when it comes to finding a solutions, because offering you more frequent or regular sessions might be outside of their control, even if they fully understand that you're unwell and need more attention.

Do they have any solutions or any response whatsoever to your requests to help you with developing better strategies?

 

[Someone123]

The state of therapy is pathetic, it doesn't help anyone most of the time. SO often they want to talok aboutwhat has ahppened in the past, but this doesn't help today in most cases. Financial problems, not enough social connection, physical health problems, and addictions are the most common causes of depression, and how to solve these things should be discussed. When things get worse for a patient it is common that therapists detach because talking about these really negative things is depressing for them. One thing they should do that they don't do it take an inventory of the main soical connections in your life and work it through with the patient to see which people are helping the most and the least and tryu to figure out how to make some better social connections with some new people.

 

[http-410]

Oh, I see. That is a really tough situation. I think it is possible that your therapist really is at a loss when it comes to finding a solutions, because offering you more frequent or regular sessions might be outside of their control, even if they fully understand that you're unwell and need more attention.

Do they have any solutions or any response whatsoever to your requests to help you with developing better strategies?

Not really. We had only tried a few times rather half-heartedly to reduce the parasuicidal behavior, until it got much worse. That was the beginning of the time when the subject was closed for them. They asked me / left me no other choice to go to the psychiatrist to get "advice" regarding medical treatment of suicidal ideation, otherwise the therapy would not have continued. Since then I have kept quiet about it.

I don't feel taken seriously in that regard either. They know that I have tried all kinds of medications, and that I am refusing medication due to severe side effects AND because they don't fix the problems.

According to the literature, the therapeutic relationship is the best suicide preventive tool, but I have the impression that this relationship has exactly the opposite effect. That's a shame, because I think that this relationship would have had potential and I'm convinced that it could have created a foundation that would have helped me move forward - even without medication.

The last time I asked what I could do about despair (without calling it being suicidal), they said there was basically nothing you could do about it, but only thinking about ways to not getting into that despair. Unfortunately, I just can't do anything with this highly cognitive-behavioral approach - as much as I want to, it just doesn't work. I feel as if my emotions and despair are not perceived.

 

[Someone123]

I don't feel taken seriously in that regard either. They know that I have tried all kinds of medications, and that I am refusing medication due to severe side effects AND because they don't fix the problems.

Medications are very profitable and they cause lasting damage oftentimes- it is best to wean off of them as sooon as you can. Loneliness, money problems, and physicla health probelms are the most common causes of depression,k and pills do nothing to treat any of these things. BUt pills are esy to treat with and profitable and profit guides everything- the most profitable patient is the one that is sick for the longest time, so the system is set up to perpetuate this.

 

[Regen]

I am very sorry that you have the terrible feeling of not being seen. That hurts so much.

In relation to suicidality, I have also had this experience. Over time, even my psychologist, who is actually nice and really trying, becomes blunt. I think that can have many reasons! It would probably make the most sense if you addressed exactly that. So exactly the content of your post. You then have the chance to see what feelings and issues are behind it. Who may not have taken you seriously in the past. With whom you thought to be a burden. Why you want to protect your therapist. What you want as a reaction. What is the deeper wish behind this wish. I have also discussed with my psychologist the meaning or non-sense of life in general.

I also always avoid the subject of suicide. But once I rarely manage to really honestly discuss it and look at it, it often brings me relief. It's not a miracle cure, but it's worth a try. Afterwards, you can still walk further in the direction of darkness and further in the direction of the only way out. For me, it's like this: if I don't bring up the subject in therapy, it starts to become more dangerous for me. I am then at some point very blatantly in the suicide tunnel from which I come out alone only with difficulty.

I wish you that you manage to say the whole post mercilessly honest in therapy. And I hope with all my heart that your therapist is good enough that he can help you. It's just damn hard to find a good therapist. Sometimes it's worth changing, even if it's exhausting.

I keep my fingers crossed for you!

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

Actually, I think they do care about the underlying issues. However, I suppose my problems are probably too complex for them and we have only ever scratched the surface. We also always jump from one problem to another without having really worked through one properly - probably because we don't get any further after a certain point.

They had said several times that they couldn't sleep well because of worry about me and therefore couldn't work well.

I see. To me, that last bit indicates that there could be some issues going on with your therapist's relationship towards you tbh. It's crucial to be able to have empathy yet be able to compartmentalize as a therapist. You don't want to cross certain boundaries and create more attachment than "necessary" for either person. It's a bit concerning that they've had sleeping issues because of this.

…that aside, have they ever tried a different approach/modality with you? Or maybe you two have hit a stopping point where they're not capable/lack the skills to help you.

 

[Someone123]

I see. To me, that last bit indicates that there could be some issues going on with your therapist's relationship towards you tbh. It's crucial to be able to have empathy yet be able to compartmentalize as a therapist. You don't want to cross certain boundaries and create more attachment than "necessary" for either person. It's a bit concerning that they've had sleeping issues because of this.

…that aside, have they ever tried a different approach/modality with you? Or maybe you two have hit a stopping point where they're not capable/lack the skills to help you.

Most therapists lack skills to help most patients- the whole system is a mess. It's all about profit maximization, and profit is maximized by keeping a patinet as long as possible- by maybe helping a tiny speck here and there but not really helping much at all.

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

Most therapists lack skills to help most patients- the whole system is a mess. It's all about profit maximization, and profit is maximized by keeping a patinet as long as possible- by maybe helping a tiny speck here and there but not really helping much at all.

I agree with you for sure. But there are some modalities that can be more effective for certain issues (Gestalt therapy, somatic, neurofeedback, IFS, etc etc).

Regardless, it's hard to find therapists that actually specialize in something other than the basics like CBT. It's expensive. You still have to find someone who you have a good fit with. Etc etc. There's so many issues, that even if you can find someone good….

And then there are people who end up keeping clients for many years, over a decade. Definitely puts their credibility into question.

 

[Someone123]

I agree with you for sure. But there are some modalities that can be more effective for certain issues (Gestalt therapy, somatic, neurofeedback, IFS, etc etc).

Regardless, it's hard to find therapists that actually specialize in something other than the basics like CBT. It's expensive. You still have to find someone who you have a good fit with. Etc etc. There's so many issues, that even if you can find someone good….

And then there are people who end up keeping clients for many years, over a decade. Definitely puts their credibility into question.

In my opinionbh these therapies, like Gestalt and the rest, are so misguided and so far from what is really needed they thay are a waste of time. What is really needed is practical solutions for most people- how do I solve my financial problems, how do I deal with my physical health problems, and the big one that shoujld be done- list the people in your life- family members, friends, acquaintances, etc., and discuss how each persomn interacts with you, and try to figure out how to better deal with this person- is this person hurting you more than helping you, etc. WHat I needed to figure out in therapy - these people are not really friends and these people are, and that as bad as my parenst treat me, despite tehir nice act in front of people, is extremely bad and you need to move out asap and find some way to support yourself asap- and to figure out that some family members would really help me more if I knew how to ask for help from them, and some wouldn't. Basically do a people inventory of your life and figure out which people are helpful and which are hurtful, and it won't be simple, and the answers won't always be right- and then how to find nice peopel who care about you elsewhere. Gestalt therapy includes such pseudo-intellectual b.s. as talking to a chair. MOst therapy is a waste of time because they don't focus directly on what needs to change to make things better.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

What would you want them to do to show they take you seriously? Do you want some of the consequences of what that could mean? I don't know where you live but what would be taking it seriously in your eyes..involuntary hospitalization or?? If they do that, are you ever really ever going to be able to go back to them? For me personally, that would ruin our rapport, and I would never be able to go back to someone who involuntarily hospitalized me. Do you have partial hospitalization, intensive outpatient, residential programs where you live ? Outpatient therapy/psychiatrist visits can only do so much unfortunately. DBT is really the only therapy I've heard that people have much success for chronic suicidal ideation but not so much for me. What would you want though? What's taking it seriously mean to you? Just for more appointments you would like be offered an intensive outpatient program where I live but obviously that may not be available everywhere

 

[assisted]

i would look for a new therapist

 

[Someone123]

Hopefully you can find a new therapist who will will, but building a network of family and friends that you can count on is the best long term solution- easier said than done.

 

[its-about-time]

Reading all the comments…. I'm curious what you've figured out so far. It's difficult to hear but sometimes we use our suicidal urges as a way to feel loved or cared for. It's complicated and often subconscious, can really only be seen after reflecting back on long term patterns. You seem to want therapist to care more and take you more seriously (even though when she does care more you find it burdensome-you still want her to care). The questions that might be helpful to explore are, why do you need that validation and witness? How can you fulfill that need yourself? Are there other ways to fulfill that need that don't require you to be suicidal?

Wanting to end our lives is both a very literal issue and a psychological one that serves us. It's basically a coping mechanism until the actual act. I'm curious if therapist is actually intentionally not giving much attention to the issue and focusing on underlying needs instead. Of course, therapists are people too, and they do go through their own issues, so could play a role as well. Maybe it's worth asking upfront; she will answer you if you ask, and it's a sign of healthy communication to do so… I saw numerous intense assumptions in your post that would be helpful to you to clear up I think.

 

[Menschenmühle]

My therapist once told me that so many of his patients committed suicide to the point where he started to feel apathetic towards the whole thing, he claims that he did his best for them, so there's no use for him to feel bad about it. I of course found it incredibly insulting, but I guess that's the nature of medical "professionals". It takes a certain level of psychopathy to feel completely normal in front of the physical and mental trauma that they witness on an almost daily basis.
It's also helpful to remember that they don't even see us fully human, in the sense that they have this urge to categorize our behavior, and consequently to categorize our whole being. In a way they must deprive us of some of our humanity, in order to make their useless diagnoses.

 

[Nirrend]

It was incredibly difficult for me to open up to my therapist about suicide for the first time around 2020, and it was always very difficult for me to talk about this topic afterwards. I downplayed it for a long time, but when they realized how serious it was, they actually seemed concerned. But I think they were relatively helpless, because the suicidality is not the cause, but only a symptom of my problems. Now I have the impression of being taken less (or barely) seriously the longer I live in spite of my suffering, even though my condition is steadily getting worse.

But I suppose at some point, even as a professional, you become jaded.

To be honest, I also don't see how my therapist can help me in this regard (being suicidal/having agonizing psychache), as we have never been able to resolve the underlying issues. On the one hand, I can understand that at some point you get fed up with the subject. Meanwhile, we also no longer address the topic (suicide) - I, because I know that I not only burden my therapist with it, but also bother them. And as I said, I don't know what the point is. But it bothers me 24/7, and I've noticed how my risk-taking behavior has changed over the past few years in that I'm not only exposing myself more often, but also to more deadly risks.

Why they don't bring it up anymore I don't know, but I respect their decision and I don't want to draw their attention again. I think they are overwhelmed or suppressing the issue, because they know I'm getting worse - at least that's what I said several times. But apparently I'm not taken seriously when I say that, what else am I supposed to do to be taken seriously, kill myself? Make a half-assed attempt?

I wonder if therapists should not be more professional in dealing with this issue... Shouldn't the topic at least be asked about periodically? Or is that redundant if you are "chronically" suicidal?

I just don't feel like I'm being taken seriously anymore, but if I brought it up, they would probably get mad (again) or threaten to end therapy. I wonder if they have accepted that they can't help me. It seems to me that they are waiting for it like a vulture, maybe they would even be relieved. I suspect their concern has given way to disinterest, helplessness and/or anger. This is consistent with what I have read about counter-transference in therapists dealing with chronic suicidal people. Only I wonder what I have to do to be taken seriously? Unfortunately I can't find another therapist and the one I have now will probably be the last...

I'm fucking stuck.

Hi sweet @http-410

I'm sorry you're going through all this, I understand that you're suffering so much ❤

Back on topic, for me, there are several things that play here and on both sides (theirs and yours) there are several dynamics that led to this situation

1) Yours: I don't know your whole story but I think that, given what you write, you came on your own to try to deal with this problem, this internal suffering.

From what you describe, you have specified several times your suicidal ideas, your projects and your malaise.

The thing is that when I read you, I have the feeling that you talk about your suffering but in the periphery. As you say, suicide is a symptom that has many different causes.

Here I see three problems:
1) Don't you start to feel that you are just talking for the sake of talking? (I mean that you are talking out of principle, with a hope of liberation, but not so much out of life anymore, as if you had a loss of confidence in yourself and in them)

2) During this therapy, did you take the time to ask yourself what you want? (By this I mean that "getting better" is far too broad and vague for things to be easily resolved. In general, the therapist is supposed to do this, but you need to take stock and he/she would probably have defined with you concrete and accessible objectives (getting better is abstract, whereas for example "overcoming my grief", "accepting past harassment", "not worrying in the street"...) these objectives are fundamental to give you the feeling that things are moving forward, that nothing is stagnating

3) Let's assume that you know what makes you suffer so much today, do you want to accept it and deal with it? Do you really want to? Don't you feel an inner block on this/these issues as if your heart was telling you "It's impossible, I can't". (When the mind refuses to deal with a theme, the therapy stumbles and very often, we talk around the problem, we make voluntary or involuntary diversions, and faced with this, the therapist can't do nothing. This is a fundamental question to ask and if this is the case, we must ask ourselves "Why don't I want to? Why is this impossible for me?"

2) His own:

1) As I said above, a lack of focus, so maybe on his side too, the relationship of trust has become "fragile" and as a result, it's like in a couple, since an uneasiness is established, we do some treading

2) It is possible that the therapist reacted at the beginning because your situation alerted him but that, as the sessions went on, in order not to give a worrying and dramatic impact to the matter, he dwelt less on it

3) He may indeed feel powerless and therefore, by the principle of counter-transference as @GrumpyFrog mentioned, the therapist disinvests because he feels hurt, this questions his skills (it is indeed a pity if this is the case, but therapists remain human after all and have their faults like everyone else)

4) He may be bored and not take your words seriously, because after hearing your distress he may think "I don't think he will". Honestly, if that's the case, it's really a shame for him not to question himself and his own actions as you do, as I do or as the members here do

5) He may feel resistance from you and therefore can't do anything

To conclude, in a relationship, there are always at least two of us. Even if one creates a dynamic, whether we like it or not, the dynamics are so numerous that the other will always end up contributing (positively or negatively) to the misunderstanding that is created.

I don't know your story at all but, and I may be saying the wrong things. I have a feeling that there may be a lingering trauma in you that is far too important to be resolved so easily. This kind of resistant trauma can be associated with PTSD, BPD or Dependent personality or others

PSTD : support is complicated and behavioural approaches are sometimes to be preferred

BPD and Dependent, these are personalities that generate a lot of transference and counter-transference. On both sides, relationships are very complicated to manage and often there are tensions, fusion with the therapist, rejection of care etc.

If you recognize yourself in all this, first of all don't blame yourself, you have nothing to do with it ❤

And then, if my words made you think about things, that's great, take that into account to understand your behaviour (if it's the case) so you can love yourself, remove a weight from tour shoulders and also, better counter things that can make your life harder

Even if you are in distress my sweet @http-410 I advise you to think about it and maybe the situation will be solved in a few seconds!

Next time, for example, tell him, "Listen, I'd like to discuss what's been going on between us for a while", "I must admit that for a while now, I've been feeling a bit hurt to see that when I talk about suicide, you react like this..."

Of course, don't forget, the objective is to solve the problem, not to create tension,

Even if you are hurt or feel like you are being taken for someone who is complaining, don't forget, you have the keys in your hands, it can get better

Your pain is legitimate and real, it is wrong to believe that a person who threatens several times to act will not do it and you have the courage to put up with demeaning things like that... ❤

Keep that strength, don't torture your mind because we understand you, we support you and we take your word for it in your suffering ❤

Think about it, do what you think is best and above all, keep us posted ❤

I give you all my strength ❤ It will get better ❤

Love ❤

 

[http-410]

Thank you for the numerous and thoughtful replies. I would not have expected this response.

I see. To me, that last bit indicates that there could be some issues going on with your therapist's relationship towards you tbh. It's crucial to be able to have empathy yet be able to compartmentalize as a therapist. You don't want to cross certain boundaries and create more attachment than "necessary" for either person. It's a bit concerning that they've had sleeping issues because of this.

…that aside, have they ever tried a different approach/modality with you? Or maybe you two have hit a stopping point where they're not capable/lack the skills to help you.

I also recently thought again about why they told me that in the first place. To make me feel guilty? To go easy on them? I don't know and should have asked them.

We've tried different approaches, but there's never really been any success.

Reading all the comments…. I'm curious what you've figured out so far. It's difficult to hear but sometimes we use our suicidal urges as a way to feel loved or cared for. It's complicated and often subconscious, can really only be seen after reflecting back on long term patterns. You seem to want therapist to care more and take you more seriously (even though when she does care more you find it burdensome-you still want her to care). The questions that might be helpful to explore are, why do you need that validation and witness? How can you fulfill that need yourself? Are there other ways to fulfill that need that don't require you to be suicidal?

Wanting to end our lives is both a very literal issue and a psychological one that serves us. It's basically a coping mechanism until the actual act. I'm curious if therapist is actually intentionally not giving much attention to the issue and focusing on underlying needs instead. Of course, therapists are people too, and they do go through their own issues, so could play a role as well. Maybe it's worth asking upfront; she will answer you if you ask, and it's a sign of healthy communication to do so… I saw numerous intense assumptions in your post that would be helpful to you to clear up I think.

I'm not quite sure I understood, but I think I can guess what you mean - if not (my thinking ability is not the best (right now)), feel free to correct me. Yet I can clearly state that I am not suicidal / use my suicidality because I want to feel loved or cared for. I have become suicidal because, despite numerous therapies, my problems have not improved - in fact they have worsened (especially since this therapy) - and I have now lost all hope of improvement. Nevertheless, there still seems to be some kind of ambivalence, otherwise I wouldn't still be here.

I don't want a special treatment, to be pitied by my therapist or make them worry ("care") excessively as they did. On the contrary - when they were so worried, I also told them clearly that their excessive worry was not good for me.

I just want to be taken seriously, to be seen (consequently also my pain) and to work on the core problems. If my suffering could be perceived at all, I would at least feel taken seriously, and not rejected. Isn't the most important thing in therapy the therapeutic relationship? What if the therapeutic relationship itself fails because of such fundamental things (or lack thereof) as being taken seriously?

Of course also important, if not the most important thing of all, to work on the core issues - which we have failed at every time so far. I just feel misunderstood after each session and it feels like I am communicating with a robot. For them, other issues are more important, which I consider rather unimportant.

Now that they have been absent for a longer period of time (which did me no good either), not much has happened therapy-wise. Some had the suggestion to bring it up and maybe in a healthy therapeutic relationship it would be a great idea. I wish I could have talked to my therapist again about the issue and yes, these posts here probably would have been helpful too.

Since I have had very bad experiences with bringing up the subject, I won't be able to do it. I can't bear to pester them with this issue again myself. Things have happened in therapy that are too complicated to describe here. It seems to me that I just can't do anything wrong anymore: don't bring up anything other than the usual, unimportant topic, don't say anything wrong, don't appear too dissociated. Otherwise I am misunderstood, I am accused of distracting from the topic or actively avoiding it, or if I remain silent, I am accused of manipulation, even though I am dissociating and speechless or have to collect myself first in order not to cry, because even that was interpreted negatively to me last time.

I gave up, I guess. This no longer feels like therapy. I've been looking for therapists, but there just aren't any trauma therapists here. And even if there were, my health insurance doesn't cover another therapy.

What would you want them to do to show they take you seriously? Do you want some of the consequences of what that could mean? I don't know where you live but what would be taking it seriously in your eyes..involuntary hospitalization or?? If they do that, are you ever really ever going to be able to go back to them? For me personally, that would ruin our rapport, and I would never be able to go back to someone who involuntarily hospitalized me. Do you have partial hospitalization, intensive outpatient, residential programs where you live ? Outpatient therapy/psychiatrist visits can only do so much unfortunately. DBT is really the only therapy I've heard that people have much success for chronic suicidal ideation but not so much for me. What would you want though? What's taking it seriously mean to you? Just for more appointments you would like be offered an intensive outpatient program where I live but obviously that may not be available everywhere

Among other things, I don't feel taken seriously because they attach all emotions to belief systems. As I already wrote, it seems to me as if I were talking to a machine. Everything is rationalized and it seems to me as if my feelings are completely irrational.

To be taken seriously and understood (also on an emotional level) - that is what I would have wished for and I would argue that these are not extraordinary wishes for a therapist.

There is some kind of partial hospitalization facility, but they don't accept anyone anymore. Apart from that, I won't set foot in such facilities anymore either. I am convinced that outpatient therapy with a healthy therapeutic relationship could have helped me. If you are so wrecked by therapy, surely the opposite is also possible. Only now I have no hope left and due to my health insurance I can forget it anyway.

My therapist once told me that so many of his patients committed suicide to the point where he started to feel apathetic towards the whole thing, he claims that he did his best for them, so there's no use for him to feel bad about it. I of course found it incredibly insulting, but I guess that's the nature of medical "professionals". It takes a certain level of psychopathy to feel completely normal in front of the physical and mental trauma that they witness on an almost daily basis.
It's also helpful to remember that they don't even see us fully human, in the sense that they have this urge to categorize our behavior, and consequently to categorize our whole being. In a way they must deprive us of some of our humanity, in order to make their useless diagnoses.

That sounds awful, and I find it worrisome that "many" of his patients have committed suicide...

Hi sweet @http-410

I'm sorry you're going through all this, I understand that you're suffering so much ❤

Back on topic, for me, there are several things that play here and on both sides (theirs and yours) there are several dynamics that led to this situation

1) Yours: I don't know your whole story but I think that, given what you write, you came on your own to try to deal with this problem, this internal suffering.

From what you describe, you have specified several times your suicidal ideas, your projects and your malaise.

The thing is that when I read you, I have the feeling that you talk about your suffering but in the periphery. As you say, suicide is a symptom that has many different causes.

Here I see three problems:
1) Don't you start to feel that you are just talking for the sake of talking? (I mean that you are talking out of principle, with a hope of liberation, but not so much out of life anymore, as if you had a loss of confidence in yourself and in them)

2) During this therapy, did you take the time to ask yourself what you want? (By this I mean that "getting better" is far too broad and vague for things to be easily resolved. In general, the therapist is supposed to do this, but you need to take stock and he/she would probably have defined with you concrete and accessible objectives (getting better is abstract, whereas for example "overcoming my grief", "accepting past harassment", "not worrying in the street"...) these objectives are fundamental to give you the feeling that things are moving forward, that nothing is stagnating

3) Let's assume that you know what makes you suffer so much today, do you want to accept it and deal with it? Do you really want to? Don't you feel an inner block on this/these issues as if your heart was telling you "It's impossible, I can't". (When the mind refuses to deal with a theme, the therapy stumbles and very often, we talk around the problem, we make voluntary or involuntary diversions, and faced with this, the therapist can't do nothing. This is a fundamental question to ask and if this is the case, we must ask ourselves "Why don't I want to? Why is this impossible for me?"

2) His own:

1) As I said above, a lack of focus, so maybe on his side too, the relationship of trust has become "fragile" and as a result, it's like in a couple, since an uneasiness is established, we do some treading

2) It is possible that the therapist reacted at the beginning because your situation alerted him but that, as the sessions went on, in order not to give a worrying and dramatic impact to the matter, he dwelt less on it

3) He may indeed feel powerless and therefore, by the principle of counter-transference as @GrumpyFrog mentioned, the therapist disinvests because he feels hurt, this questions his skills (it is indeed a pity if this is the case, but therapists remain human after all and have their faults like everyone else)

4) He may be bored and not take your words seriously, because after hearing your distress he may think "I don't think he will". Honestly, if that's the case, it's really a shame for him not to question himself and his own actions as you do, as I do or as the members here do

5) He may feel resistance from you and therefore can't do anything

To conclude, in a relationship, there are always at least two of us. Even if one creates a dynamic, whether we like it or not, the dynamics are so numerous that the other will always end up contributing (positively or negatively) to the misunderstanding that is created.

I don't know your story at all but, and I may be saying the wrong things. I have a feeling that there may be a lingering trauma in you that is far too important to be resolved so easily. This kind of resistant trauma can be associated with PTSD, BPD or Dependent personality or others

PSTD : support is complicated and behavioural approaches are sometimes to be preferred

BPD and Dependent, these are personalities that generate a lot of transference and counter-transference. On both sides, relationships are very complicated to manage and often there are tensions, fusion with the therapist, rejection of care etc.

If you recognize yourself in all this, first of all don't blame yourself, you have nothing to do with it ❤

And then, if my words made you think about things, that's great, take that into account to understand your behaviour (if it's the case) so you can love yourself, remove a weight from tour shoulders and also, better counter things that can make your life harder

Even if you are in distress my sweet @http-410 I advise you to think about it and maybe the situation will be solved in a few seconds!

Next time, for example, tell him, "Listen, I'd like to discuss what's been going on between us for a while", "I must admit that for a while now, I've been feeling a bit hurt to see that when I talk about suicide, you react like this..."

Of course, don't forget, the objective is to solve the problem, not to create tension,

Even if you are hurt or feel like you are being taken for someone who is complaining, don't forget, you have the keys in your hands, it can get better

Your pain is legitimate and real, it is wrong to believe that a person who threatens several times to act will not do it and you have the courage to put up with demeaning things like that... ❤

Keep that strength, don't torture your mind because we understand you, we support you and we take your word for it in your suffering ❤

Think about it, do what you think is best and above all, keep us posted ❤

I give you all my strength ❤ It will get better ❤

Love ❤

Thank you for your detailed reply.

I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure I understand the first point. We (that is, my therapist and I) don't really talk about it anymore. I tried indirectly because I didn't want to bother them with it again. Somewhere I wish that they would have understood what I meant by it, and maybe they did, but know themselves that it is of no use to deepen the topic. To a certain extent, I can also understand that: talking to them forever about suicide doesn't make sense, but at least discussing the reasons why things just don't get better without immediately rationalizing everything and attaching it all to beliefs, might have done me some good.

I just wish we would have worked more on the core issues. A few months ago, I thought we were at least on the trail of a particular issue that is/was important to me. Talking about it actually gave me some food for thought and I felt like I was working on something. But in the end, we always hit a wall and changed the subject.

We have defined the goals of therapy several times, and spent several sessions of therapy with the definition in some cases, and achieved none of them. This, of course, leads to even more hopelessness.

I think I know what makes me suffer. Perhaps I should add that the suffering only became so intense during therapy that I became so suicidal in the first place. The motivation to move something is/was really high because the pressure of suffering is immense.

What may be going on in my therapist's mind I can only speculate. What got me thinking is that they acknowledged (without being asked) some of their mistakes and it seemed to me that they were really sorry. That made me believe in some kind of fresh start, but somehow nothing has changed. At one point they also said, as they apologized for their behavior (can't remember what happened back then), that I reminded them of someone. Strangely enough, I never had such problems with a therapist before and I was never blamed for the things my therapist blamed me for. Still, I have to say that I am not an easy client with textbook problems and my therapist is not to "blame" for how unsuccessful this therapy is.

The suggestion to address the issue actually sounds reasonable. It may even be the only one that, ideally, will actually get me somewhere.

If I were to bring the topic up again, especially just out of the blue, I would just worry that it would be declared as attention-seeking. I actually resolved not to bring up the subject again on my own. It didn't help them or me in the past, but only made things worse. It may be paradoxical that I describe my worries here and also ask for advice, and on the other hand do not see myself in a position to change anything, in the sense of, for example, talking to my therapist about the subject. I just don't want to do anything wrong anymore.

 

[Nirrend]

Thank you for the numerous and thoughtful replies. I would not have expected this response.



I also recently thought again about why they told me that in the first place. To make me feel guilty? To go easy on them? I don't know and should have asked them.

We've tried different approaches, but there's never really been any success.


I'm not quite sure I understood, but I think I can guess what you mean - if not (my thinking ability is not the best (right now)), feel free to correct me. Yet I can clearly state that I am not suicidal / use my suicidality because I want to feel loved or cared for. I have become suicidal because, despite numerous therapies, my problems have not improved - in fact they have worsened (especially since this therapy) - and I have now lost all hope of improvement. Nevertheless, there still seems to be some kind of ambivalence, otherwise I wouldn't still be here.

I don't want a special treatment, to be pitied by my therapist or make them worry ("care") excessively as they did. On the contrary - when they were so worried, I also told them clearly that their excessive worry was not good for me.

I just want to be taken seriously, to be seen (consequently also my pain) and to work on the core problems. If my suffering could be perceived at all, I would at least feel taken seriously, and not rejected. Isn't the most important thing in therapy the therapeutic relationship? What if the therapeutic relationship itself fails because of such fundamental things (or lack thereof) as being taken seriously?

Of course also important, if not the most important thing of all, to work on the core issues - which we have failed at every time so far. I just feel misunderstood after each session and it feels like I am communicating with a robot. For them, other issues are more important, which I consider rather unimportant.

Now that they have been absent for a longer period of time (which did me no good either), not much has happened therapy-wise. Some had the suggestion to bring it up and maybe in a healthy therapeutic relationship it would be a great idea. I wish I could have talked to my therapist again about the issue and yes, these posts here probably would have been helpful too.

Since I have had very bad experiences with bringing up the subject, I won't be able to do it. I can't bear to pester them with this issue again myself. Things have happened in therapy that are too complicated to describe here. It seems to me that I just can't do anything wrong anymore: don't bring up anything other than the usual, unimportant topic, don't say anything wrong, don't appear too dissociated. Otherwise I am misunderstood, I am accused of distracting from the topic or actively avoiding it, or if I remain silent, I am accused of manipulation, even though I am dissociating and speechless or have to collect myself first in order not to cry, because even that was interpreted negatively to me last time.

I gave up, I guess. This no longer feels like therapy. I've been looking for therapists, but there just aren't any trauma therapists here. And even if there were, my health insurance doesn't cover another therapy.


Among other things, I don't feel taken seriously because they attach all emotions to belief systems. As I already wrote, it seems to me as if I were talking to a machine. Everything is rationalized and it seems to me as if my feelings are completely irrational.

To be taken seriously and understood (also on an emotional level) - that is what I would have wished for and I would argue that these are not extraordinary wishes for a therapist.

There is some kind of partial hospitalization facility, but they don't accept anyone anymore. Apart from that, I won't set foot in such facilities anymore either. I am convinced that outpatient therapy with a healthy therapeutic relationship could have helped me. If you are so wrecked by therapy, surely the opposite is also possible. Only now I have no hope left and due to my health insurance I can forget it anyway.


That sounds awful, and I find it worrisome that "many" of his patients have committed suicide...



Thank you for your detailed reply.

I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure I understand the first point. We (that is, my therapist and I) don't really talk about it anymore. I tried indirectly because I didn't want to bother them with it again. Somewhere I wish that they would have understood what I meant by it, and maybe they did, but know themselves that it is of no use to deepen the topic. To a certain extent, I can also understand that: talking to them forever about suicide doesn't make sense, but at least discussing the reasons why things just don't get better without immediately rationalizing everything and attaching it all to beliefs, might have done me some good.

I just wish we would have worked more on the core issues. A few months ago, I thought we were at least on the trail of a particular issue that is/was important to me. Talking about it actually gave me some food for thought and I felt like I was working on something. But in the end, we always hit a wall and changed the subject.

We have defined the goals of therapy several times, and spent several sessions of therapy with the definition in some cases, and achieved none of them. This, of course, leads to even more hopelessness.

I think I know what makes me suffer. Perhaps I should add that the suffering only became so intense during therapy that I became so suicidal in the first place. The motivation to move something is/was really high because the pressure of suffering is immense.

What may be going on in my therapist's mind I can only speculate. What got me thinking is that they acknowledged (without being asked) some of their mistakes and it seemed to me that they were really sorry. That made me believe in some kind of fresh start, but somehow nothing has changed. At one point they also said, as they apologized for their behavior (can't remember what happened back then), that I reminded them of someone. Strangely enough, I never had such problems with a therapist before and I was never blamed for the things my therapist blamed me for. Still, I have to say that I am not an easy client with textbook problems and my therapist is not to "blame" for how unsuccessful this therapy is.

The suggestion to address the issue actually sounds reasonable. It may even be the only one that, ideally, will actually get me somewhere.

If I were to bring the topic up again, especially just out of the blue, I would just worry that it would be declared as attention-seeking. I actually resolved not to bring up the subject again on my own. It didn't help them or me in the past, but only made things worse. It may be paradoxical that I describe my worries here and also ask for advice, and on the other hand do not see myself in a position to change anything, in the sense of, for example, talking to my therapist about the subject. I just don't want to do anything wrong anymore.

I understand, of course, I'm sorry you tried a lot of things I could've thought to it..

Yes I understand, I had a therapy where I felt that I was going in a wall..

Sometimes, as you mention here, the problem is simply a human problem

We either match or we don't.

If you think that changing therapist can be effective, then why not
*(Wanted to add) : because you mentioned that your therapist said that for him you look like someone else.. this can show that for the moment there's an obstacle in the relationship, and that sometimes, it's just because between 2 humans, the link is good, stuck, bad..)

Even if you're afraid, mention the fact that you feel suicidal, it's important to release it and you're not an attention seeker
*(Wanted to add): and say that you're afraid to not be taken seriously, you're afraid to be considered as an attention seeker. Mistakes can be made on therapies, but the problem here is the fear of judging inside your therapy. Sometimes even if a feeling looks like truth, do not forget that this is just a feeling and that currently in your therapy, you are in distress

Sorry you're suffering, wishing you the best sweet @http-410

Love ❤