Discussion The fallacy of you 'you don't really want to die or you would have already'

[MeltingHeart]

Do people believe that if you reallly wanted to ctb so desperately (those that want to with urgency)- you would have done so already? I have been told this by so many people - my 'care co-ordinators' my so called 'family'- i.e the person that found and took my SN away (whilst also giving me tips on less offensive to others ways to kill myself) -the only method I felt comfortable with - also now repeatedly taunts me with that retort-whilst also guilt tripping & attacking me verbally about how selfish and awful it would be for whomever had to discover my body (which of course I agree with to an extent), of course I have the innnate human congitive dissonance of not wanting to die -despite how little I want to live - in the sense that it goes against human nature- and also prior to my breakdown -I of course had hopes and dreams for living an even vaguely nice life- however I do not agree with their proposal that I dont really want to die -or I would have already- im just too damn scared - i tried daily for months for hours on end to try to hang myself- ive been to beachy head-i took a huge mixed dose of anti-ds, paracetamol & alcohol , i leaned out of windows of high buildings, stood at edge of train platform etc etc - i ordered the SN once i learnt about that (and am most despairing since it had gone and having to think back to other methods again). I have also heard the concept of - when the will to die (over that to live) becomes strong enough-you will be able to over come SI - i cant help but disagree- i am sure many people exist in states of severe mental or physical pain for many years -even those that have no family- but they simply can not do the act itself- for what ever reason-even though they very strongly would like to end their existence. I would be euthanised tomo if i could. Therefore I believe it is a fallacy to say 'if you really wanted to die - you would have already' im just really really scared- i dont know what of - i dont believe in heaven or hell- but im just scared of the dying process-even though everyday life for me is a kind of living mental hell.

 

[trynacbt]

Yes. Absolutely. If this were true, I would've been gone three and a half years ago. Thank goodness for this forum. I myself am planning on attempting SN. I'm so sorry that yours was taken. Is there any way you could get more?

 

[MeltingHeart]

Yes. Absolutely. If this were true, I would've been gone three and a half years ago. Thank goodness for this forum. I myself am planning on attempting SN. I'm so sorry that yours was taken. Is there any way you could get more?

I need to try and get more!!- i cant figure out how to get a PO Box address- where i am staying-it looked like no such thing was available- and due to my emotional state of feeling profoundly suicidal every single day, with a matter of urgency (as i feel worst everyday) - it is becoming more & more of a struggle each day to function & 'organise' and arrange things, i cant even walk too far (not from physical - but due to my emotional state) im getting worst daily- but I just do NOT want to be hospitalised, which I fear could happen if i dont ctb sooner rather than later. I dont have a mental illness as such -except 'untreatable' 'situational' depresssion. IF if i got caught trying to order more- though i dont know where i can get it sent to-that would be it- sent away -men in white coats etc...

 

[Crushed_Innocence]

Agreed. I have decided to wait to get affairs in order. So it just seems like I'm WALLOWING. Oh the glory when they get the news. I'm not the kind of bitch to use Suicide as a form for attention seeking. My last attempt failed because of one small but critical error. But I came very close. I HATE that I failed cause it was peaceful till I woke up. Anyway, I have declared it and I will do it. On my own fucking time table. Now, of course people reserve the right to change their mind----- But in any case, is our life and whenever we want to take it we can when we fucking want. End of story.

 

[justanotherday]

Do people believe that if you reallly wanted to ctb so desperately (those that want to with urgency- you would have done so already? I have been told this by so many people - my 'care co-ordinators' my so called 'family'- i.e the person that found at took my SN away -the only method I felt comfortable with - also now repeatedly taunts me with that retort-whilst also guilt tripping & attacking me verbally about how selfish and awful it would be for whomever had to discover my body (which of course I agree with to an extent), of course I have the innnate human congitive dissonance of not wanting to die -despite how little I want to live - in the sense that it goes against human nature- and also prior to my breakdown -I of course had hopes and dreams for living an even vaguely nice life- however I do not agree with their proposal that I dont really want to die -or I would have already- im just too damn scared - i tried daily for months for hours on end to try to hang myself- ive been to beachy head-i took a huge mixed dose of anti-ds, paracetamol & alcohol , i leaned out of windows of high buildings, stood at edge of train platform etc etc - i ordered the SN once i learnt about that (and am most despairing since it had gone and having to think back to other methods again. I have also heard the concept of - when the will to die (over that to live) becomes strong enough-you will be able to over come SI - i cant help but disagree- i am sure many people exist in states of severe mental or physical pain for many years -even those that have no family- but they simply can not do the act itself- for what ever reason-even though they very strongly would like to end their existence. I would be euthanised tomo if i could. Therefore I believe it is a fallacy to say 'if you really wanted to die - you would have already' im just really really scared- i dont know what of - i dont believe in heaven or hell- but im just scared of the dying process-even though everyday life for me is a kind of living mental hell.

I agree with you on all of this. I am just too damned afraid to have another failed attempt, or end up in a vegetative state.

 

[Elias]

This kind of argument just makes me want to be successful even more, so I don't know what they're trying to achieve with that. ~ "Oh wew you were so right, I actually don't want to die or I'd be already dead! Just like I don't want to be rich cause if that was the case I'd be already!"
These people have never actually thought about their own death so they can't comprehend the amount of research, mental preparation, fear and logistics that go into planning to cross yourself off the list of the living people. It is indeed a fallacy and a disconnect between two worlds.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Agreed. I have decided to wait to get affairs in order. So it just seems like I'm WALLOWING. Oh the glory when they get the news. I'm not the kind of bitch to use Suicide as a form for attention seeking. My last attempt failed because of one small but critical error. But I came very close. I HATE that I failed cause it was peaceful till I woke up. Anyway, I have declared it and I will do it. On my own fucking time table. Now, of course people reserve the right to change their mind----- But in any case, is our life and whenever we want to take it we can when we fucking want. End of story.

May I ask what yr critical error was Iast attempt - only if u don't mind sharing , understand if not

I agree with you on all of this. I am just too damned afraid to have another failed attempt, or end up in a vegetative state.

Same- it's the ultimate fear - and when I read about it in the news - it breaks my heart- especially when they were "rescued" in the last moment s . & when u consider that they hated their lives before - of course I accept there are the rare cases when people are somewhat fuckd aftr an attempt - and were glad to be saved - but again, rare!! And of course these stories of hope & "positivity" will be the most widely shared in the media

 

[Done at Fifty]

Agree. Even when one really wants to die there are so many things that have to be dealt with before hand. Getting past the fear - which is just a physical survival instinct; distancing oneself from friends and family so they'll be somewhat prepared for when you leave their life completely; making sure you have the right method, etc.

 

[MeltingHeart]

This kind of argument just makes me want to be successful even more, so I don't know what they're trying to achieve with that. ~ "Oh wew you were so right, I actually don't want to die or I'd be already dead! Just like I don't want to be rich cause if that was the case I'd be already!"
These people have never actually thought about their own death so they can't comprehend the amount of research, mental preparation, fear and logistics that go into planning to cross yourself off the list of the living people. It is indeed a fallacy and a disconnect between two worlds.

I happened to comment that I have basically started to go grey - since my multiple attempts- & was told oh that only happens when people go through extreme stress or shock as when a loved once dies - as if trying to take yr life multiple times is not a stressful experience! I don't give a shit that it's happened (to my hair I mean) but it was a comment I made - that again- just got met with utter derision

Agree. Even when one really wants to die there are so many things that have to be dealt with before hand. Getting past the fear - which is just a physical survival instinct; distancing oneself from friends and family so they'll be somewhat prepared for when you leave their life completely; making sure you have the right method, etc.

I am often met with the classic tales of woes , hardships & deaths on the news - as if knowing that would suddenly give me a sense that my own life has any worth and automatically imbue it with some meaning - it just simply doesn't work like that - and as if I don't already think about those things anyway! & of course I feel guilt in some senses for feeling the way I do when I have the imainative capacity to also comprehend the grief and suffering of many others in the world - but unfortunately that only deepens my own self hatred & in turn desire to off myself

 

[Walilamdzi]

:(

 

[Samsara]

I think it's too easy to underestimate the evolutionary survival instinct, like the intensity of the fight or flight sensation, that's inherent in all of us. It's theorized people have the actual 'ability' to follow through on their intentions to kill themselves when this survival instinct is sufficiently desensitized through repeated attempts/preparation behaviors.