The Difference Between Not Wanting Pain Anymore and Wanting to Die

[glittergore]

I will echo a conversation I'm sure many of us have had: I was speaking to someone about the most prominent reasons I'm suicidal during this junction and they threw out the, "You don't really want to die, you want the pain to stop." They said this to me like it was supposed to trigger some sort of epiphany. I have heard this before, but for whatever reason, I started to think about what this assertion means and its implications.

For some people, I can see there being a profound functional difference between the two desires. If you just want the pain to stop, then there are enough things in life you find worthwhile, meaningful, or at the very least pleasurable that you still have a will to live, and knowing this fact is essential for determining if you want to try to remedy or cope with that which is causing you pain. Therefore, this could be a useful thing to tell someone. On the other hand, not every case is like this; for some, that which causes pain cannot be remedied or coped with at all, or if it can, it's highly improbable, not within the person's individual capacity/capability, or doesn't make enough of an impact to make living worth it. So, hearing that it's "just pain" seems like it's missing the point. To put it in a different way, if the pain is that inherently tied into life, either life itself or the individual's life, then not wanting pain anymore and wanting to die becomes synonymous.

I've often seen this angle used to explain all suicides and suicidal ideation, but like stated above, I really don't think it applies to everyone. There's going to be a large portion of the population that never understands this because death being legitimately desirable is inconceivable to them, but I knew this group would.

 

[Dookieshoes]

I feel like I'm halfway between understanding this.... And just not at all.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I'm sure there are some people who want to die NOT due to any problems with suffering, but I think that they are in the minority. I suspect that most suicidal people, like me, want to die in order to end their pain, and not because they want their experience to end. But when solutions to end the suffering cannot be found, one logical conclusion is suicide, because that's one surefire way to end it.

 

[Mistake of Nature]

For me, life itself is my disease and the only cure is death. I hate reality, I hate existing, I hate being stuck inside a body, and I hate consciousness — there's no solution to these problems other than dying.

Others' situations are more circumstantial in that if they were to become financially stable, receive more social support, find adequate treatment for mental health issues, and so on, they would be willing to continue living.

Both groups of people want their pain to stop, but those in the latter situation have more options available to them and can find hope to cling onto. Whether they care to explore those options or hold onto hope is another story, and whether CTBing is an appropriate solution ultimately comes down to what an individual is willing to put up with in life.

 

[Dookieshoes]

For me, life itself is my disease and the only cure is death. I hate reality, I hate existing, I hate being stuck inside a body, and I hate consciousness — there's no solution to these problems other than dying.

This is just such a hard concept for me to grasp. Have you always felt this way?

 

[Mistake of Nature]

This is just such a hard concept for me to grasp. Have you always felt this way?

I'm not really sure...I've always felt this weird, free-floating sadness and anxiety, but it wasn't until fairly recently that I realized that even if my surface problems were "fixed", I still wouldn't want to experience anything life has to offer.

 

[ward0x]

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

 

[timeisnigh]

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[Dookieshoes]

I'm not really sure...I've always felt this weird, free-floating sadness and anxiety, but it wasn't until fairly recently that I realized that even if my surface problems were "fixed", I still wouldn't want to experience anything life has to offer.

So do you just not enjoy anything? Do you have anything like sensory deficiencies to smells/Tastes/Sound/Touch? I just can't imagine it, and if you've always lived it, maybe it's hard to compare to what I experience....

I still wouldn't want to experience anything life has to offer.

Is it just a general apathy, like meh... or like an actual I legitimately hate everything kind of vibe?

Sorry, I don't mean to needle.

 

[timeisnigh]

So do you just not enjoy anything? Do you have anything like sensory deficiencies to smells/Tastes/Sound/Touch? I just can't imagine it, and if you've always lived it, maybe it's hard to compare to what I experience....

Is it just a general apathy, like meh... or like an actual I legitimately hate everything kind of vibe?

Sorry, I don't mean to needle.

Without answering for @Twombly , I will sign on with what @Twombly says. Life is just generally bullshit even when I feel good.

When I feel good, I'm waiting for bad. Death fixes that, since there's no credible evidence that I'll perceive after ending my neurochemistry. That's my entire goal: turning out the lights.

 

[Dookieshoes]

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

I think this actually helps me to understand what my friend may have been experiencing... Thank you for this perspective... Maybe not 100%, I don't think that's fair to say, but a peek through the window for sure. Seriously, thank you.

 

[leiche]

i just don't want to suffer anymore. the more i feel the pain, the more i want to die, simple

 

[ladolcemorte]

I HATE that cliche so much. I'm like "yes, of course I want the pain to stop...that's exactly what I'm going for".

I think it is a cliche that people throw out to try to avoid confronting the fact that the person wants to die. People who have never been suicidal don't want to actually confront the darkness that the suicidal person inhabits. It's too much for them, so they throw around trite sayings to minimize the suffering.

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

Just FYI the source of this quote is David Foster Wallace

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows...

I included this quote from David Foster Wallace in my suicide note because it explains so much.

To the OP's comment, I think that tactic is used to refocus the suicidal person's attention to matters of life. The strategy is to get them to stop thinking about their death as the solution, and to realize that there are solutions that involve living, if only you try hard enough to seek them. Of course, it presupposes that everyone does have a viable solution, which is arguable at best. It also invalidates the freedom of choice of the person suffering. It's a way of saying, "your choice isn't a real choice because it's rooted in a false desire."

 

[zeroshark]

to me its like saying "you dont really want food, you just want to stop feeling hunger pangs." unless you can offer another solution that would end the pain as effectively, stfu.

 

[ward0x]

I HATE that cliche so much. I'm like "yes, of course I want the pain to stop...that's exactly what I'm going for".

I think it is a cliche that people throw out to try to avoid confronting the fact that the person wants to die. People who have never been suicidal don't want to actually confront the darkness that the suicidal person inhabits. It's too much for them, so they throw around trite sayings to minimize the suffering.


Just FYI the source of this quote is David Foster Wallace

Yes, thanks. I saved it in my notes section of my phone years ago & had no idea where I found it. Wasn't trying to mislead, should've used quotation marks.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I will echo a conversation I'm sure many of us have had: I was speaking to someone about the most prominent reasons I'm suicidal during this junction and they threw out the, "You don't really want to die, you want the pain to stop." They said this to me like it was supposed to trigger some sort of epiphany. I have heard this before, but for whatever reason, I started to think about what this assertion means and its implications.

For some people, I can see there being a profound functional difference between the two desires. If you just want the pain to stop, then there are enough things in life you find worthwhile, meaningful, or at the very least pleasurable that you still have a will to live, and knowing this fact is essential for determining if you want to try to remedy or cope with that which is causing you pain. Therefore, this could be a useful thing to tell someone. On the other hand, not every case is like this; for some, that which causes pain cannot be remedied or coped with at all, or if it can, it's highly improbable, not within the person's individual capacity/capability, or doesn't make enough of an impact to make living worth it. So, hearing that it's "just pain" seems like it's missing the point. To put it in a different way, if the pain is that inherently tied into life, either life itself or the individual's life, then not wanting pain anymore and wanting to die becomes synonymous.

I've often seen this angle used to explain all suicides and suicidal ideation, but like stated above, I really don't think it applies to everyone. There's going to be a large portion of the population that never understands this because death being legitimately desirable is inconceivable to them, but I knew this group would.

I think there's a lot of worthwhile and meaningful things in life. It's just not meant for me. As my emo quote-thing under my username says, I'm so tired of pain. Life. I've tried to make things better, but my depression got worse and my efforts didn't alleviate the suffering. I guess I'm tenacious...so I'm still doing things to try and "help". But really, I have my SN and I can't wait until I'm ready to properly try and kill myself. I want this shit to be over.

 

[timeisnigh]

I think there's a lot of worthwhile and meaningful things in life. It's just not meant for me. As my emo quote-thing under my username says, I'm so tired of pain. Life. I've tried to make things better, but my depression got worse and my efforts didn't alleviate the suffering. I guess I'm tenacious...so I'm still doing things to try and "help". But really, I have my SN and I can't wait until I'm ready to properly try and kill myself. I want this shit to be over.

Yeah my only remaining concern is using Enough Method. When my depression was more agitated, I was planning a complex suicide. Now, I'm too melancholic* so I just want to hide myself somewhere and use a single, pretty fast and reliable method. Hoping for the best isn't my style, but there it is.

*For want of better word, not to be all Ancient Greek about it

 

[A_miStake_of_NATURE]

I agree. I think if a person wants to die, there's always some sort of pain involved. Even it's minor. Psychological or physical or metaphysical, but it's there.
And I think everyone single one of us can find a reason we'd like to die, but people are so scared of "death", that probable unavoidable emptiness, that they do anything to avoid even thinking about it. Like if they start to, they're afraid it's gonna stick, and they won't be able to get out of such thinking. Someone said that life is one big distraction from death. We tend to make ourselves so busy, so there's no time to think about inevitability of dying. That's why people who don't understand, like to say to someone who wants to cbt, that we should start "working out", "find a hobby", "find your passion", "get a job", "go volunteering", "go traveling", "learn something new" and yada yada yada, so there's no free time to be sitting around and thinking about suicide. They just don't get it. Even very busy people kill themselves. Very successful people kill themselves. But if someone can't relate, they should shut the f**k up and mind their own business.

 

[262653]

Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows.

Finally! I was looking for the quote and who said it for quite some time. In defense of those who yell far away from the flames, it is the percieved flames that counts, and what a person percieves doesn't always match up with... "objective reality." (In the present moment, a break up with a loved one can feel terrible enough to override the fear of the falling, but it's not always certain how it will affect the feelings in the future.)

I would so like to hear a solution that stops the pain without stopping the life but that just sounds bizarre... Can we experience hunger without pain? Or how would we otherwise know that our bodies are dying or getting injured? "We aren't afraid of the water, we are afraid when there's too much of it." I've heard this one from some cartoon, during my childhood years.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

Yeah my only remaining concern is using Enough Method. When my depression was more agitated, I was planning a complex suicide. Now, I'm too melancholic* so I just want to hide myself somewhere and use a single, pretty fast and reliable method. Hoping for the best isn't my style, but there it is.

*For want of better word, not to be all Ancient Greek about it

This is relatable. I was planning to die in a hotel. Now I'm too exhausted to really do much of anything, so I dunno how I'll plan it. Also SN takes a while versus something like a gunshot to the head.

Also the Greek comment was hilarious. You sounded fine, lol. :)

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

Yes yes yes. My favorite quote because it sums it up so well

 

[Good4Nothing]

There's some truth in that statement, for some of us.
If I could just be happy, if I wasn't so lonely, if life wasn't such a constant struggle, I wouldn't want to die. I want to enjoy my life, like I see others enjoying theirs.
Unfortunately, I was apparently made to suffer, and I'm very, very tired of being life's punching bag.

 

[ladolcemorte]

Yes, thanks. I saved it in my notes section of my phone years ago & had no idea where I found it. Wasn't trying to mislead, should've used quotation marks.

I have it saved on my phone too!!!! That's how I knew where it was from!! (I didn't think you were trying to mislead...thought maybe you found it online without the source)

 

[muffin222]

I know that cliche is true in my case. I don't want to exit life per se- I just don't want to live in near constant depression and sorrow everyday

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I know that cliche is true in my case. I don't want to exit life per se- I just don't want to live in near constant depression and sorrow everyday

I read your post and was reminded of the cliche "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." In reality, sometimes the issue isn't temporary. Sometimes there really is no end to the depression and sorrow, no matter what you do to try and change it. Maybe we're fucked up, but suicide really seems like the only possible solution at this point.

Sorry, I got a bit fired up.

 

[alexit]

I will echo a conversation I'm sure many of us have had: I was speaking to someone about the most prominent reasons I'm suicidal during this junction and they threw out the, "You don't really want to die, you want the pain to stop." They said this to me like it was supposed to trigger some sort of epiphany. I have heard this before, but for whatever reason, I started to think about what this assertion means and its implications.

For some people, I can see there being a profound functional difference between the two desires. If you just want the pain to stop, then there are enough things in life you find worthwhile, meaningful, or at the very least pleasurable that you still have a will to live, and knowing this fact is essential for determining if you want to try to remedy or cope with that which is causing you pain. Therefore, this could be a useful thing to tell someone. On the other hand, not every case is like this; for some, that which causes pain cannot be remedied or coped with at all, or if it can, it's highly improbable, not within the person's individual capacity/capability, or doesn't make enough of an impact to make living worth it. So, hearing that it's "just pain" seems like it's missing the point. To put it in a different way, if the pain is that inherently tied into life, either life itself or the individual's life, then not wanting pain anymore and wanting to die becomes synonymous.

I've often seen this angle used to explain all suicides and suicidal ideation, but like stated above, I really don't think it applies to everyone. There's going to be a large portion of the population that never understands this because death being legitimately desirable is inconceivable to them, but I knew this group would.

You're absolutely right: people over simplify and talk out of their ass. Most people just repeat talking points on the topic suicide. They don't know that telling people about wanting to kill yourself is problematic. A lot of people rather not talk about it, while still saying they wish they "knew" someone was suicidal. Or that when getting help admitting you're suicidal may make things worse for your situation. People should get help but people talking bullshit about suicide really gets under my skin.

 

[Sarahlynn]

I read your post and was reminded of the cliche "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." In reality, sometimes the issue isn't temporary. Sometimes there really is no end to the depression and sorrow, no matter what you do to try and change it. Maybe we're fucked up, but suicide really seems like the only possible solution at this point.

Sorry, I got a bit fired up.

Gah, that saying pisses me off. It's always "you can't give up yet!!1!". Well, tell me what the fuck to do then?! I have been asking for help for years, I have had numerous therapists, tried pretty much any medication available, and now I am worse than ever. If my problem is temporary, why haven't anybody been able to help me fix it for all these years? How long am I supposed to go on?

You are so right with this post. Some of us are just fucked up. And I don't understand how anyone expects me to live like this for 40+ years.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

Gah, that saying pisses me off. It's always "you can't give up yet!!1!". Well, tell me what the fuck to do then?! I have been asking for help for years, I have had numerous therapists, tried pretty much any medication available, and now I am worse than ever. If my problem is temporary, why haven't anybody been able to help me fix it for all these years? How long am I supposed to go on?

You are so right with this post. Some of us are just fucked up. And I don't understand how anyone expects me to live like this for 40+ years.

I can really feel your pain, and I'm so sorry. It's hard to keep dealing with this bullshit.

 

[DFFP]

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

it's so true! well done

 

[Deleted member 1768]

I will echo a conversation I'm sure many of us have had: I was speaking to someone about the most prominent reasons I'm suicidal during this junction and they threw out the, "You don't really want to die, you want the pain to stop." They said this to me like it was supposed to trigger some sort of epiphany. I have heard this before, but for whatever reason, I started to think about what this assertion means and its implications.

For some people, I can see there being a profound functional difference between the two desires. If you just want the pain to stop, then there are enough things in life you find worthwhile, meaningful, or at the very least pleasurable that you still have a will to live, and knowing this fact is essential for determining if you want to try to remedy or cope with that which is causing you pain. Therefore, this could be a useful thing to tell someone. On the other hand, not every case is like this; for some, that which causes pain cannot be remedied or coped with at all, or if it can, it's highly improbable, not within the person's individual capacity/capability, or doesn't make enough of an impact to make living worth it. So, hearing that it's "just pain" seems like it's missing the point. To put it in a different way, if the pain is that inherently tied into life, either life itself or the individual's life, then not wanting pain anymore and wanting to die becomes synonymous.

I've often seen this angle used to explain all suicides and suicidal ideation, but like stated above, I really don't think it applies to everyone. There's going to be a large portion of the population that never understands this because death being legitimately desirable is inconceivable to them, but I knew this group would.

Absolutely right!!! Yes. Thank you far saying what I have been thinking for a long time.