Venting The crime to procreate causes endless amounts of suffering

[FuneralCry]

The crime to procreate truly does cause endless amounts of suffering, it's so horrific. In fact those who procreate are ultimately responsible for all the suffering, agony and torment the individual they brought here will experience as if one never existed they wouldn't be able to suffer in any way.

It's so tragic the amount of harm procreation causes, more than anything I wish I never existed at all, I find it cruel how I was forced into existence because of selfish pronatalists where I'm now trapped in a decaying flesh prison that can potentially torture me to unlimited amounts without the option to easily die in peace.

Existence truly is just imprisonment and enslavement, we are paying the price because of the crime to procreate, I wish I stayed eternally unaware of the evil that is existence. It's disturbing how we exist in such an anti-suicide society even know we were so cruelly forced to exist in this world filled with endless suffering, to have the ability to exist truly is beyond undesirable in every way, I wish I could erase my existence so it's like I never existed at all.

It's so hellish how one can suffer so much yet not die, it disturbs me how there is no limit as to how torturous existing can get, to impose potentially decades of meaningless suffering onto someone else will always be criminal to me no matter what especially as there are no disadvantages to never existing at all.

 

[iloverachel]

Yeah, I am paying the price, decades of suffering in this hellish prison because I was placed in this world without my consent

 

[divinemistress36]

birth rates are going down but still not enough

 

[Tesha]

You know what causes more harm? Criticising those of us who are parents on a prochoice forum, who are already very suicidal.

Do you want to push me closer to killing myself FC? Would that cheer you up a bit?

 

[Jorms_McGander]

You know what causes more harm? Criticising those of us who are parents on a prochoice forum, who are already very suicidal.

Do you want to push me closer to killing myself FC? Would that cheer you up a bit?

It's a pro-choice forum, so it will always be your choice to CTB. You have the option of ignoring FC's posts and based on your personal context the most effective choice would be to do that.

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

this thread is in venting... so I read it as things you need to get off your chest.

You surely didn't mean to offend other people just because they happen to be parents.
But yes: as a parent I am responsible for trying to do the best I can do for my kids. Because they didn't choose to be born...

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree. I hate how much people procreate without thinking about it. I wish I was never born at all

You know what causes more harm?

How is FC venting about procreation causing more harm than the people who are procreating? FC is just one person on an obscure part of the internet who many people don't even know the existence of and the worst she does is irritates a few people on the planet for expressing her views. However, those who procreate have inevitably caused some people to hate living to the point where they wished to be dead. Millions of people have been harmed by procreation even if the people procreating did not procreate to intentionally harm the people being forced into existence

It's a fact that, if I wasn't alive to begin with, I wouldn't be suffering so much to where my only desire is death. That's just the simple concept of the butterfly effect. I have been harmed by procreation and so have other people who hate their life. Whereas the worst FC does is irritates people who disagree with her

 

[Dusk till dawn]

You know what causes more harm? Criticising those of us who are parents on a prochoice forum, who are already very suicidal.

Let me rephrase that properly

"You should not be criticizing parents for their choice to procreate because they could be potentially in this forum and also possibly suicidal, criticism can cause harm, please refrain from criticizing people who fit the criteria i set, you are causing more harm by criticizing them"

Nope, being a suicidal parent who is a user of SaSu doesn't make you immune to criticism, and more over, if you are a parent who is suicidal you should feel remorse for procreating because you know you brought people into live who can suffer just as you do, if you are suicidal then you should see that life can be cruel and you enforced a existence on someone without his consent, just like you are suffering now, your son or daughter could suffer like you or worse in the future if they aren't already suffering

You don't even try to make counter-arguments, you're straight up "don't criticize parents they could be suicidal people who are on this forum" as if that means everyone is entitled to refrain from sharing their opinion regarding procreation, nobody is above criticism

Please learn the difference between sharing an opinion and hate speech

Do you want to push me closer to killing myself FC? Would that cheer you up a bit?

Where did you get the idea since FC dislikes procreation and considers it as the worst act a human can do, that means she hates you or dislikes you on a personal level and wishes the worst for you? How did you connect the dots to come to such a brilliant conclusion?

Nobody here is trying to push you closer to commit suicide out of spite because they dislike procreation, i think it's fair to say everyone here gets sadder when they see a goodbye thread regardless of whether they disagree on certain things and hold incompatible views, because it means someone was pushed over the edge and had no other way to solve his problems and improve his life and suicide was his only choice to be relieved from all his problems

 

[bramblebamblebambe]

I think it is pretty well known now that all parents cause some degree of trauma to their children,....it just varies on how much and since most people even if they are not suicidal are not mentally healthy, (I think my therapist once told me it was only approximately 15% of people are healthy), then most of us would be passing on the suffering to the next generation.

Birth rates are going down and it is not so frowned upon nowadays to say you don't want children which is good for people that come from more traditional/conservative families.

I personally think it is cruel and selfish to have children if you know you are suicidal or do not have the capacity to look after yourself or you know you're messed up, I know that sometimes it is not always planned and some people do not agree with abortion, I am pro choice when it comes to abortion it doesn't bother me what others do, but I personally couldn't go through with it, and I definitely wouldn't want to give birth, so if I ever got pregnant I think it would mean I would have to kms before the baby was born, which feels really messed up, but proves to me more that I shouldn't have children. I wouldn't want to traumatize them or pass on any of my issues to them.

And that's just the first hurdle, what the rest of life brings is just more pain and suffering, I would never want to intentionally hurt anyone, especially if it was or would be someone I loved.

 

[Chinaski]

I would be very very surprised if those who are the most enthusiastic about splurging semi-developed "anti-natalist" thought on this website are not simultaneously entirely reliant upon their parents well into adulthood tbh.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

I would be very very surprised if those who are the most enthusiastic about splurging semi-developed "anti-natalist" thought on this website are not simultaneously entirely reliant upon their parents well into adulthood tbh.

Do you mean to suggest that people who are well-adjusted and able to achieve independence are suicidal at a lower rate than those who are unable to support themselves for reasons of mental or physical health?

Big surprise there huh! Lol, what exactly is your point? You just want to belittle people?

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

I would be very very surprised if those who are the most enthusiastic about splurging semi-developed "anti-natalist" thought on this website are not simultaneously entirely reliant upon their parents well into adulthood tbh.

So far I really liked how people treat each other in this forum. The world outside is messy enough. Could you please make peace?

 

[Chinaski]

Do you mean to suggest that people who are well-adjusted and able to achieve independence are suicidal at a lower rate than those who are unable to support themselves for reasons of mental or physical health?

Big surprise there huh! Lol, what exactly is your point? You just want to belittle people?

No, the point is that many, and probably the majority of, suicidal people will love and respect their parents and recognise the sacrifices they made for them and the struggles they too endured. This becomes more apparent as one matures. Regretting being born is something l can absolutely understand, the incessant labelling of procreation as either criminal or evil is a position often arrived at by those without a world beyond their bedrooms, often within their parents house.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

No, the point is that many, and probably the majority of, suicidal people will love and respect their parents and recognise the sacrifices they made for them and the struggles they too endured. This becomes more apparent as one matures. Regretting being born is something l can absolutely understand, the incessant labelling of procreation as either criminal or evil is a position often arrived at by those without a world beyond their bedrooms, often within their parents house.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

There's no law that says I should respect my parents. Have you considered abuse and unhealthy families? Even my upbringing which was not abusive served to produce chronic invalidation, trauma, and a personality disorder. It's right there in the cards. So I should be grateful for that upbringing, because I wasn't struck?

Well, wasn't struck beyond what was the social norm at the time. I'm 37; well into adulthood and a life outside my parents' home. I understand my dad's instinct to procreate. He's autistic too. He was just trying to follow the social rules of how to live. He didn't plan on my mother dying.

However, respecting my father hasn't got a lot to do with the impact of procreation on the individual. If an individual is struggling to the point of suicidality while still within the care of their parents, then I would say even less is owed to the parents rather than anything additional.

I think you could take a step back from your personal emotions and think it through again.

 

[Chinaski]

That's just like, your opinion, man.

There's no law that says I should respect my parents. Have you considered abuse and unhealthy families?

Yes l have

 

[Lady Laudanum]

I would be very very surprised if those who are the most enthusiastic about splurging semi-developed "anti-natalist" thought on this website are not simultaneously entirely reliant upon their parents well into adulthood tbh.

In my experience it's the people who are fully independent that have much more moderate views.

 

[Kapsyl]

No, the point is that many, and probably the majority of, suicidal people will love and respect their parents and recognise the sacrifices they made for them and the struggles they too endured. This becomes more apparent as one matures. Regretting being born is something l can absolutely understand, the incessant labelling of procreation as either criminal or evil is a position often arrived at by those without a world beyond their bedrooms, often within their parents house.

I always enjoy reading your refreshing point of view in the usual shit show that's FC venting. I suspect you come from a similar background as me, being a former well adjusted member of society but from circumstances forced or completing suicide. I think our perspective is important and your observation is spot with certain members here.

I'm not going to add my opinion on procreation since it will fall on death ears but the hate for parents here is immense, truly fascinating and alien to me.

 

[Chinaski]

I always enjoy reading your refreshing point of view in the usual shit show that's FC venting. I suspect you come from a similar background as me, being a former well adjusted member of society but from circumstances forced or completing suicide. I think our perspective is important and your observation is spot with certain members here.

I'm not going to add my opinion on procreation since it will fall on death ears but the hate for parents here is immense, truly fascinating and alien to me.

Thanks. You are clearly in the minority with that view but l also wish to make clear that my position us not "anti FC" as much as it is pro-maturity. Wishing for our parents to not get drunk and fuck many decades ago is about as fruitful as wishing a doctor will bring us N in a milkshake. We are alive for better or worse, it's up to us and us alone to bail out and l would rather look inward and examine my own fears and regrets than expel vitriol outwardly at Muh Society.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

Thanks. You are clearly in the minority with that view but l also wish to make clear that my position us not "anti FC" as much as it is pro-maturity. Wishing for our parents to not get drunk and fuck many decades ago is about as fruitful as wishing a doctor will bring us N in a milkshake. We are alive for better or worse, it's up to us and us alone to bail out and l would rather look inward and examine my own fears and regrets than expel vitriol outwardly at Muh Society.

You know you could've just ignored the post, or written your own post? You don't have to play enlightened on an internet forum starting unproductive debates. Just make your own space, you know--act with maturity.

 

[Chinaski]

You know you could've just ignored the post, or written your own post? You don't have to play enlightened on an internet forum starting unproductive debates. Just make your own space, you know--act with maturity.

We have different opinions, l get that opinion infallibility is very much a thing on here but "procreation is a crime!!!!" is perhaps not going to receive universal approval and I'm very much unenthused by the notion that this routinely expressed position should never be countered in case feelings are hurt.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

We have different opinions, l get that opinion infallibility is very much a thing on here but "procreation is a crime!!!!" is perhaps not going to receive universal approval and I'm very much unenthused by the notion that this routinely expressed position should never be countered in case feelings are hurt.

Your counter was to make generalisations belittling anybody who holds such an opinion, so, I would say your intention may have been to hurt feelings.

And you then fell back on "muh maturity" lmfao. I don't imagine your next reply will be any better.

 

[Chinaski]

Your counter was to make blanket generalisations belittling anybody who holds such an opinion, so, I would say your intention may have been to hurt feelings.

Nah, l maintain the position - l fully accept that some people despise their parents with absolutely legit reasons, I've met a few with this view irl and it's often an understandable position which almost never extends to *all procreation is an evil crime*, or some such. There's a difference, and we both know it.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

Nah, l maintain the position - l fully accept that some people despise their parents with absolutely legit reasons, I've met a few with this view irl and it's often an understandable position which almost never extends to *all procreation is an evil crime*, or some such. There's a difference, and we both know it.

Existence is suffering as defined by the laws of physics, my friend. The view that creating new beings to experience this exposes an individual to moral liability is not foreign, and shouldn't be so difficult to get along with. Antinatalism isn't a new concept; it's older than I am.

I think it's strange to come to a forum like this and pick fights with users over a very common philosophical stance.

You didn't notice that I said I don't despise my parents? I still don't think my creation was justified. I think it was very selfish of them, and they should've fucking considered whether or not they had energy for a third child. I don't hate my father, the only surviving member of the pair. I just wish he hadn't done what he did.

See the difference there? I don't hate the variety of people who caused me harm in other ways, not personally. Sure, I wish I'd never been victimised, but I don't hate the perpetrators. Because I coped I guess.

So now I am able to say two things are true at the same time:

1) Reproducing as a fully sapient being is reprehensible, and ignorance is not a defense
2) My dad was also born against his will, into a society that was even more backward, and was influenced by social mores of the time

They coexist. That's what I consider my own personal growth. Maybe you're objecting to a less distilled version of the thought, but then I would ask that you have a fucking heart for the youth we share this site with. No reason to be the master debater.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Nah, l maintain the position - l fully accept that some people despise their parents with absolutely legit reasons, I've met a few with this view irl and it's often an understandable position which almost never extends to *all procreation is an evil crime*, or some such. There's a difference, and we both know it.

If my dad sexually abused me and my mom knew but didn't do anything about it and made me hide the truth, would that be an absolutely legit reason to despise my parents?

Honestly part of me still feels guilty about hating my parents. However, regardless of whether others think I should forgive them, I won't.

 

[Chinaski]

If my dad sexually abused me and my mom knew but didn't do anything about it and made me hide the truth, would that be an absolutely legit reason to despise my parents?

Honestly part of me still feels guilty about hating my parents. However, regardless of whether others think I should forgive them, I won't.

Yes it would and you've every right to despise them as individuals and denying this is definitely not the position I'm taking

Existence is suffering as defined by the laws of physics, my friend.

Physics was probably my worst subject, l apologise for my intellectual shortcomings.

 

[Chinaski]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse by implying that I have anything other than colloquial physics in mind and in this case it's simple: energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

You can build the rest from that. I didn't attack your intelligence and your style of conversating is brash at best...

I think you're trying very hard to establish an in intellectual superiority which is of a significant importance to you but is not something l care about. My position remains the same.

 

[Chinaski]

But your position was just to insult people, so I guess I stand in awe, O wise one.

PS: nothing I said requires an education, I claim no expertise. Who cares about the testable intellect? We are both users of SaSu.

Maybe my opimion is as valid as thst if the op and u shoukd recognise that i am equally as sensitive uwu

 

[karmaisabitch]

Thats

The crime to procreate truly does cause endless amounts of suffering, it's so horrific. In fact those who procreate are ultimately responsible for all the suffering, agony and torment the individual they brought here will experience as if one never existed they wouldn't be able to suffer in any way.

It's so tragic the amount of harm procreation causes, more than anything I wish I never existed at all, I find it cruel how I was forced into existence because of selfish pronatalists where I'm now trapped in a decaying flesh prison that can potentially torture me to unlimited amounts without the option to easily die in peace.

Existence truly is just imprisonment and enslavement, we are paying the price because of the crime to procreate, I wish I stayed eternally unaware of the evil that is existence. It's disturbing how we exist in such an anti-suicide society even know we were so cruelly forced to exist in this world filled with endless suffering, to have the ability to exist truly is beyond undesirable in every way, I wish I could erase my existence so it's like I never existed at all.

It's so hellish how one can suffer so much yet not die, it disturbs me how there is no limit as to how torturous existing can get, to impose potentially decades of meaningless suffering onto someone else will always be criminal to me no matter what especially as there are no disadvantages to never existing at all.

what everyone is saying at work too: none should have kids! Do you throw your child in fire? No right? So bringing a child to this life is definitely the same you are doing it hurting a new soul… they killed my son he suffered he was in pain and what's life doing about it? Nothing the judge sleeping at home he doesn't give a fuck about justice so I totally agree with you!! I'm guilty I killed my son

 

[fleetingnight]

I never wanted to be born. And I think my parents weren't prepared for a kid... I really don't know why they had me. What I hate more than anything is the made-up person my parents expected I would be when I was older. I feel like I'm constantly compared to a person who doesn't exist, what they think my "potential" is, personified.

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

If my dad sexually abused me and my mom knew but didn't do anything about it and made me hide the truth, would that be an absolutely legit reason to despise my parents?

Honestly part of me still feels guilty about hating my parents. However, regardless of whether others think I should forgive them, I won't.

Someday you might be ready to consider letting go of the strong feelings against your parents for your own sake. Because those feelings hurt you more than the people who have wronged you...