The best argument against suicide:

[Oliver]

Imo, the best argument against suicide is the fact, that someone is very likely going to be devastated by your decision and I believe that's true for the vast majority of people here. Someone, maybe a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a grandparent or a good friend of yours will likely be devastated by your decision and I don't know how to argue against that.

I think suicide is ultimately your choice and if you have suffered for many years or even decades and without any hope for it to get any better in the future, then suicide is certainly not a "bad" idea or immoral, but... It will probably still hurt someone a lot for a long time and I really don't know what to say about that...

 

[KafkaF]

I don't care.

Edit: I want to clarify this because I wrote this comment out of annoyance due to having heard this argument so many times. Do I want people to suffer from my death? No, though I don't think many would suffer all that much. The idea of my grandparents and sister being sad (the only ones I can imagine being sad about my death) is not something I like and I'm sorry about it. But it doesn't change my mind either. I can't live the rest of my life miserable for someone else. It hurts too much.

 

[Oliver]

I don't care.

That's one way to look at it.

 

[FuneralCry]

Well I find it devastating how humans so cruelly decided to procreate in the first place even know in existence there is literally endless potential for suffering and torment. It's not an argument as nobody consented to existence in the first place, instead it was so harmfully imposed. And anyway it isn't like anyone can suffer from not-existing and we are all just going to die someday, death is very much inevitable, if people are so anti-death then why do they procreate as they are the ones literally causing people to die.

 

[KafkaF]

That's one way to look at it.

The only ones I think it's maybe too bad for are my sister and my grandparents. But it still doesn't change my mind at all.

I also have a friend of sorts, but he's pretty good at dealing with this sort of thing. So I'm not worried.

Everybody else either treated me like shit during my life or won't care or both.

 

[Buried_Kid]

I guess many of us know that others may feel (very) bad if we kill ourselves. It's just that sometimes it's anyway worth it. And maybe they will suffer a bit at first, but then, they would live their lives normally, and without a big load (we) that just make mistakes and drain money/food/time. Because that's what many of us do.

To kind of work through this problem of having people that care about me, I try to take the most distance I can with other people. Almost to the point that they may not know about my death after some time has passed.

Living like a dead. That's my way to do it. To free them.

 

[Oliver]

I get what you all are saying, but I really don't like the idea of hurting people. Like we all know what feeling like absolutely shit is like, so it's not comforting to think that we will transfer that pain on to others.

 

[Unwr!tten]

It's not our responsibility to live for someone else. For me? I'm still alive because I found a new special interest.

 

[sorlox]

Well, that's a necessary sacrifice. Last pile of shit on top of the shit cake from life to us.

 

[kilowatt]

I get what you all are saying, but I really don't like the idea of hurting people. Like we all know what feeling like absolutely shit is like, so it's not comforting to think that we will transfer that pain on to others.

I'd actually really like that. I'd feel honored someone gives a shit about me, at least when I'm gone

 

[KafkaF]

I get what you all are saying, but I really don't like the idea of hurting people. Like we all know what feeling like absolutely shit is like, so it's not comforting to think that we will transfer that pain on to others.

I get what you're saying and if you feel that way you should definitely keep living. I think it's a sign that for you it's too big of a sacrifice and you still have things that you care about. Which is absolutely fair.

But I think you posted this in the wrong place. Because I think most of us would not be here if we felt that way. I think most of us feel that our suffering is great enough or the pain our death would cause small enough that the trade-off is worth it.

So I think your argument is an empathetic one. But just posted in the wrong forum.

I'd actually really like that. I'd feel honored someone gives a shit about me, at least when I'm gone

I have mixed feelings about it, tbh.

I think it's better if nobody gives a shit objectively. Less suffering in the world is generally good.

But I will say, I would be kind of touched if there were actually people who cared enough to be sad. I don't think there are many in my case though. I think at most 3 or 4.

Like my first girlfriend brought a lot of joy in my life and I still care about her. But I think she doesn't really care about me anymore. So I don't think she'll be sad at all. At most I'd expect a "Oh, that's too bad." if she found out. If she was genuinely hurt I would find that very touching. And in one sense I want that because it would mean the feeling of care is mutual. I'd be very hurt if she did it too. On the other hand, she's a good person so I don't want her to suffer. So at the end of the day I'd prefer if she not care cuz that's better for her.

 

[LostInTheWoods]

I don't have real friends, I have never had a GF or something like that, so I don't have to think about that. I have a shitty family so it's not like I don't care, I HOPE they will feel miserable and with a lot of guilt, because they deserve it, since they ruined my life. I have a friend who even if lives in the same small town than me, he's never interested to go out for me. I'm quite sure he will be sad and he will feel guilty, and again, I hope he will because he will be a little bit guilty as well. So basically, people that could feel guilty about my CTB deserve to feel guilty, so no problem.

 

[Oliver]

I get what you're saying and if you feel that way you should definitely keep living. I think it's a sign that for you it's too big of a sacrifice and you still have things that you care about. Which is absolutely fair.

But I think you posted this in the wrong place. Because I think most of us would not be here if we felt that way. I think most of us feel that our suffering is great enough or the pain our death would cause small enough that the trade-off is worth it.

So I think your argument is an empathetic one. But just posted in the wrong forum.

I have mixed feelings about it, tbh.

I think it's better if nobody gives a shit objectively. Less suffering in the world is generally good.

But I will say, I would be kind of touched if there were actually people who cared enough to be sad. I don't think there are many in my case though. I think at most 3 or 4.

Like my first girlfriend brought a lot of joy in my life and I still care about her. But I think she doesn't really care about me anymore. So I don't think she'll be sad at all. At most I'd expect a "Oh, that's too bad." if she found out. If she was genuinely hurt I would find that very touching. And in one sense I want that because it would mean the feeling of care is mutual. I'd be very hurt if she did it too. On the other hand, she's a good person so I don't want her to suffer. So at the end of the day I'd prefer if she not care cuz that's better for her.

Fair enough and thanks for your respond. I'm just in the grey zone here. It sucks only being alive for other sake. I don't know what I should do. Maybe time will tell...

 

[sserafim]

It's not our responsibility to live for someone else.

Literally

 

[TiredOfAllThis]

It should be possible to cover it up as an accident - even for local media and few remaining relatives. And accidents just happen.

 

[KafkaF]

Fair enough and thanks for your respond. I'm just in the grey zone here. It sucks only being alive for other sake. I don't know what I should do. Maybe time will tell...

If you can draw strength from that, you should. And maybe one day you'll find a way to live for yourself too. People can get better. Many people do.

You're clearly an empathetic person and the world could use more of that.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

After seeing a lot of their arguments, I think you are right in the sense that this is their best argument. However, even this argument is piss poor which just goes to show how bad all of their argument. The fact that their best argument is awful in itself goes to show that they aren't worth taking seriously.

The reason why this argument is poor imo is because we shouldn't live our lives for others. We have autonomy and should decide to live our lives as we wish. If we wish to end our lives, then I think we should have the right to a peaceful death. We didn't even consent to living to begin with so why should we live for others? What makes other people more important than myself from my own perspective?

I don't care about how other people would react after my death. If they even cared for me one single bit, they should feel glad that my suffering is over and I'm finally at peace. If they don't feel that, then their emotions aren't worth considering for me as, unlike the majority of humanity, I don't want to suffer at any cost and I refuse to willingly care about those who want me to suffer

 

[Forever Sleep]

True but would you agree that it's also a good argument not to bring life here in the first place? My Mum's death when I was 3 devastated a lot of lives, including mine. Future deaths in my close family have all taken their toll. But weirdly- we're supposed to put up with 'natural death' because it's 'natural' and you have to accept it.

Why though- really? We were all given life by people who knew 100% that we would experience death in our lives. Most likely theirs first and then, our own. They knew we'd very likely suffer during that time. They also knew it was a possibility that we could die before them. We could even kill ourselves or, at least want to.

Honestly, it irritates me that the onus is all on us now not to upset other people by our premature deaths. So far- I've carried that responsibility. 33 years feeling suicidal but carrying on for the sake of others. I just find it ironic really. Especially when children hold on for the sake of their parents. When they initiated this mess to begin with and I doubt they really thought it through before they had children. Yet we spend years, sometimes decades wrestling with the guilt of what effect it might have. I just think it's shit really! I wonder if attitudes towards suicide will ever change.

 

[divinemistress36]

Yes, it will affect people around you but with time the pain will usually lessen for them and they will still go on with their lives. They most likely won't be in as much pain as we are experiencing

 

[LostInTheWoods]

My suicide could be even a wake up call for my family. Like they could think wow we really suck maybe we can change. And maybe i'm a bit narcisistic but it's nice thinking about that friend who now doesn't behave much well towards me, thinking that come to visit my grave etc. And this is not nice but I will contact my therapist, I have this thought of being remembered, she is still young so maybe she will think about me as one of the first patients who CTB

 

[theboy]

suffer so that others do not suffer? I do not know.

 

[brokeandbroken]

Imo, the best argument against suicide is the fact, that someone is very likely going to be devastated by your decision and I believe that's true for the vast majority of people here. Someone, maybe a mother, a father, a brother, a sister, a grandparent or a good friend of yours will likely be devastated by your decision and I don't know how to argue against that.

I think suicide is ultimately your choice and if you have suffered for many years or even decades and without any hope for it to get any better in the future, then suicide is certainly not a "bad" idea or immoral, but... It will probably still hurt someone a lot for a long time and I really don't know what to say about that...

I must be in the minority because I don't think that person exists for me.

 

[skybox]

Suicide, murder, sickness, accident, etc it doesn't matter how you die, people are still gonna be devastated if they're close to you. I do think suicide brings out the self blame but there's nothing to be done about it once the life is gone.

 

[zzeroo]

Best arguments;

1. Hell, as you could possibly end up somewhere worse for an unknown amount of time (For those who are religious).

2. You are causing loved ones to suffer when you don't have to (This depends on if you actually have any loved ones as well as your personal circumstances).

3. You will die anyway so why rush?

Either way, suicide is a personal decision and I can only wish the best for all of us in this life and the next..

 

[Oliver]

True but would you agree that it's also a good argument not to bring life here in the first place? My Mum's death when I was 3 devastated a lot of lives, including mine. Future deaths in my close family have all taken their toll. But weirdly- we're supposed to put up with 'natural death' because it's 'natural' and you have to accept it.

Why though- really? We were all given life by people who knew 100% that we would experience death in our lives. Most likely theirs first and then, our own. They knew we'd very likely suffer during that time. They also knew it was a possibility that we could die before them. We could even kill ourselves or, at least want to.

Honestly, it irritates me that the onus is all on us now not to upset other people by our premature deaths. So far- I've carried that responsibility. 33 years feeling suicidal but carrying on for the sake of others. I just find it ironic really. Especially when children hold on for the sake of their parents. When they initiated this mess to begin with and I doubt they really thought it through before they had children. Yet we spend years, sometimes decades wrestling with the guilt of what effect it might have. I just think it's shit really! I wonder if attitudes towards suicide will ever change.

Very good points. I was pretty much destined to be fucked up from the beginning - like most of us probably were because otherwise we wouldn't be here. I never experienced abuse or anything terrible like that, so I can't speak on that at all. I had a loving mother, but.. She basically set me up for failure right from the beginning, simply by not thinking things through before having a kid. My mom had me as an "accident" when she was too young and my father didn't want to have a kid, so he just bounced right there and then and I never got to know him. So just straight form the beginning I was behind 0-2 (as we like to say in my country). Like, you really need to set your kid/kids up for a good life otherwise don't have any. It's your parents f*cking responsibility, when you are a child and teenager to be there for you, teach you stuff and in general just set you up for a good life, and if they doesn't do that, then you are likely to end up as a destroyed grown-up later on, because there will certainly come a time, when it's too late to fix somebody.

So yeah, that was my little venting but still, the pain you might cause someone by choosing to ctb could end up effecting them for the rest of their lives - it's certainly not a small thing, so one has to take this into account. When it all comes down to it, suicide is selfish, but on the other hand, it's also selfish for others to "demand" that you stay alive, so that they won't be sad. It goes both ways imo.

 

[permanently tired]

My life. My choice.

 

[LittleCupcake]

My argument would be, if you die naturally or from an illness there will still be people that will be upset, either way your going to die so why does it matter if you delay it?

 

[Pikmin]

For most, the pain felt by the people we leave behind pales in comparison to the pain we felt while living. Maybe it's good for those people to feel it a little bit, and feel the sadness and regret that they could have done more, but they didn't.

 

[strangelife]

I don't think there are many good reasons not to do CTB in my case, given the state I am in now, mentally I am healthy, but physically I became ill, yes, I understand that it is hard for my loved ones, but you need to think about my condition and that I don't want to live like this.

 

[strangelife]

my brother tells me that even if I'm in a wheelchair, I have to live for the sake of my loved ones, he can't understand that I don't need such a life, why don't people understand this?