Discussion That smedley video

[Chinaski]

I expect this has been discussed to great length elsewhere but l was interested in thoughts on this.

To me, it looks peaceful enough. The time between the onset of the drug and his passing is very quick. Certainly preferable to any other method. But...

...it's not quite the "drink it, fall asleep" procedure it's professed to be, is it? I'm obviously unsure as to how unpleasant those final thirty seconds were, but his complexion and gasping for water could be perceived as him burning up. I'm willing to assume that it was nothing so severe, but Michele Causse's passing was much more pleasant.

 

[Chinaski]

I've watched that documentary many times and I'm always a bit weirded out by his interaction with his wife. How would he not be wrapped around her and attentive to her? I've never been in my 80's but it seemed a bit cold to me.

It's a step which needs to be taken with hard-headed focus in my opinion, they both gritted their teeth through it admirably, though his wife was visibly upset when she saw him struggling there would have to be some temporary detachment to get it done.

They also clearly cut a bit out after he took the drug, possibly stuff very personal to them both.

 

[crova]

I

I've watched that documentary many times and I'm always a bit weirded out by his interaction with his wife. How would he not be wrapped around her and attentive to her? I've never been in my 80's but it seemed a bit cold to me.

We have no idea about turmoil in his head that moment he said "I'm sure".
Please dont judge him and his wife. We really know nothing about their long life relation.

 

[crova]

I expect this has been discussed to great length elsewhere but l was interested in thoughts on this.

To me, it looks peaceful enough. The time between the onset of the drug and his passing is very quick. Certainly preferable to any other method. But...

...it's not quite the "drink it, fall asleep" procedure it's professed to be, is it? I'm obviously unsure as to how unpleasant those final thirty seconds were, but his complexion and gasping for water could be perceived as him burning up. I'm willing to assume that it was nothing so severe, but Michele Causse's passing was much more pleasant.

Its nembutal, correct? I's not even 100ml of that. Still he swallowed if fairly easily.

 

[Chinaski]

Yes, 50ml at dignitas.

 

[worldexploder]

I watched all the Dignitas euthanasia videos including the Shmidley one several times (he died from Alzheimer's a couple afters after the taping).

Seems like Nembutal is a dream come true. A vision of a rational society. Michele Causse seemed to be more relaxed and happy she was leaving.

 

[Chinaski]

I watched all the Dignitas euthanasia videos including the Shmidley one several times (he died from Alzheimer's a couple afters after the taping).

Seems like Nembutal is a dream come true. A vision of a rational society. Michele Causse seemed to be more relaxed and happy she was leaving.

I quite agree, but was also wondering why, at one point, he appeared in such obvious discomfort. There's nothing in any brochure about gasping for water or turning crimson.

 

[Chinaski]

I quite agree, but was also wondering why, at one point, he appeared in such obvious discomfort. There's nothing in any brochure about gasping for water or turning crimson.

Must add here that I'm very pro N as a method and see that video as an acceptable departure (presuming he didn't burn up or have terrible dreams), but was wondering what the wider opinion was.

 

[worldexploder]

I quite agree, but was also wondering why, at one point, he appeared in such obvious discomfort. There's nothing in any brochure about gasping for water or turning crimson.

True. Maybe he got choked while being too weak to really cough it up. He was dying from motor neuron disease so maybe that played a factor. I remember being in more discomfort than that from waking up from a piece of lint being stuck in my lungs.

 

[Idorus]

I will be honest but that Smedley video scares the hell out a me. I came across this vid while N was on its way to me and it was the start of losing all hope to have something peaceful at home. I started a thread on another board about my huge N worries and it wasn't received well at all. I came with other things that only confirmed my worries, like this about a 43 year old woman in Dignitas crying in pain for 4 minutes after drinking N; https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/w...-zurich-suicide-facility-investigation-may-fo . The general comment on that other board: That is a pro-LIFE site which can't be taken seriously. Well, if I see Smedley suffering like that, why wouldn't this be true?

 

[Chinaski]

That's interesting. The video contributed to putting you off N? This is one of the reasons l asked tbh, l noticed every newspaper article on this documentary found his death horrifying to watch, yet l didn't think he seemed to be suffering a great deal and passed relatively smoothly, certainly more so than he would by most other methods. The thing is, it's not exactly as perfect as it's described to be, or as it appears elsewhere (Causse), and I'd be interested to know what caused this reaction.

 

[Idorus]

Yup it did. I would even prefer a bullet through my head or jumping of a high building instead of ANY ingestion way out. When I desribed my horrifying physical pain history in detail to a "friend" in ctb-land, he finally could understand my aversion against N. I admit, I'm afraid as hell for physical pain which can be so fukkin gruesome.

 

[Rex]

Interesting. I wonder if he wanted the water because of the chocolate he was told to eat? It might have got stuck on the way down afterwards a little bit, he clearly wanted water right after taking the N but she insisted on the chocolate.

 

[Chinaski]

Interesting. I wonder if he wanted the water because of the chocolate he was told to eat? It might have got stuck on the way down afterwards a little bit, he clearly wanted water right after taking the N but she insisted on the chocolate.

I got the impression that when he first went for the water he was hesitant, purely because he didn't know what he was supposed to do. The reddening came much later, clearly some minutes of waiting were cut.

I suppose it is feasible that it was chocolate stuck in his throat, but that'd be desperately unlucky to go through all the performance of getting Dignitas approval, flying to Zurich at great expense just to ignominiously choke to death on a Malteser.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I liked the video. It seems his last request for water was on the edge of unconsciousness. Sometimes people have weird reactions when they are going under anesthesia. That could be it. It was very peaceful.

 

[Chinaski]

Could be, but I've read a couple of doctors mention a "burning sensation" in the stomach (google "lifecircle interview en" and check the first link), one even suggested taking Pepto Bismol to counter it.

It does appear that Smedley is particularly hot and bothered towards the end. I'd be keen to know if burning up in an uncomfortable way is something that those who seek to use N as a method should be aware of and prepare for.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Could be, but I've read a couple of doctors mention a "burning sensation" in the stomach (google "lifecircle interview en" and check the first link), one even suggested taking Pepto Bismol to counter it.

It does appear that Smedley is particularly hot and bothered towards the end. I'd be keen to know if burning up in an uncomfortable way is something that those who seek to use N as a method should be aware of and prepare for.

I've read the relevant passages, thanks. It seems you're right, but I'm not too concerned. I wish I could have it injected, though.

 

[Chinaski]

I too would be very grateful for an N injection. I also wish, seeing as an actual Dignitas doctor refers to a burning sensation in that pdf, that Nitschke would refer to it in the PPeH. I'd take the exit Smedley had if offered, but l always feel Nitschke is not entirely honest with us.

 

[Idorus]

An injection really? Sorry to dirt your mind with this all but I wouldn't vote for the injectable N-way out...
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/05/lethal-injection-inquring-minds/

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

I cannot stand that woman who hands out the poison, she gives me the willys everytime i see her on one of those videos . I dont know, was that neitche with the non existant crocodile tears?

 

[piratemaverick]

I expect this has been discussed to great length elsewhere but l was interested in thoughts on this.

To me, it looks peaceful enough. The time between the onset of the drug and his passing is very quick. Certainly preferable to any other method. But...

...it's not quite the "drink it, fall asleep" procedure it's professed to be, is it? I'm obviously unsure as to how unpleasant those final thirty seconds were, but his complexion and gasping for water could be perceived as him burning up. I'm willing to assume that it was nothing so severe, but Michele Causse's passing was much more pleasant.

i wish i can get my hands on what he's drinking lucky bastard

 

[Sayo]

An injection really? Sorry to dirt your mind with this all but I wouldn't vote for the injectable N-way out...
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/05/lethal-injection-inquring-minds/

This is a kind of mediocre article. I've read the same criticisms of lethal injections and they are entirely valid - in general, state killings are performed primarily to not traumatise others, imo. But the article is almost entirely not about the agent being used. Potassium chloride is just not comparable to any barbiturate and is primarily responsible for the pain in that cocktail. Sodium pentothal is, as far as I know, not injected without KCl.

Where it does mention N, we do get more confirmation of the burning, though. But I can't find anywhere that it was similar to what Smedley went through. The state blamed it on impurities from the compounder—those would hurt like hell if injected (one reason to go with the oral solution, I guess... would still prefer the injection if I was going with Dignitas).

I personally thought Smedley's case was choking due to dysphagia or the taste, based on the cough, but upon review he was talking normally before the cough. Not very clear if he aspirated anything by accident afterwards.

I've struggled to find a cause for a burning sensation before, should you take the oral solution. Fever is associated with hypersensitivity, but I'm not sure that's a fever... There's nothing about the cause of death that should make you burn up. Drinking the N might make you thirsty and uncomfortable, especially with the prior fasting—especially with the really foul taste (someone on here compared it to crushed medicine held in the mouth, which I have done before), could explain the choking... Are there other examples of the phenomenon?

The only Pepto-Bismol comments I can find are related to proposed alternatives for execution not involving N, I believe for the taste of chloral hydrate. (This could be because Google is shit, I am still looking for the one Chinaski mentioned.)

I have to say though, the state of Texas is not high on my personal trust list, especially when it comes to the rights of felons. I've seen it blamed on expiration, etc. but the case was potentially important politically. So I am interested in being shown things I have missed obviously. I trust the Smedley video more, but there's a cut and one can only speculate about what he experienced because doctors have never to my knowledge publicly commented why he died like that.

And I understand that people are invested in this primarily because they are preparing to take N—I am sorry that it is so hard to make a truly informed decision and prepare for the experience.

 

[crova]

Interesting. I wonder if he wanted the water because of the chocolate he was told to eat? It might have got stuck on the way down afterwards a little bit, he clearly wanted water right after taking the N but she insisted on the chocolate.

Didnt he said: "It's a taste"? [the reason he ask for water] at 0:49sec?

 

[Sayo]

Hm, I think I just misunderstood. I have seen that pdf actually, sorry for being dumb. So the taste does seem to cause substantial irritation in some. It seems masking the taste by chasing with sweet things is pretty important due to the choking—it's so widely urged and practiced and comes up multiple places, including the lifecircle pdf. But I am deeply curious re. the Pepto Bismol because it's potentially a major omission if true and also the throat/oesophagus might be an issue...?

I also found another case (Christopher Young) where N injection led to a burning taste in throat.

Didnt he said: "It's a taste"? [the reason he ask for water] at 0:49sec?

Does he? (I can't make out speech very well—I'm mostly deaf!) If so, that's useful because it helps confirm that it's like other cases, and not due to Smedley's MND.

There's an article on someone unconsciously choking as well (written by a James Ross?) but it's so vague. It claims it's common. And accounts where it doesn't happen. It seems to be variable, but a definite reality.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/when-a-loved-one-wants-to-die-1.551976 Apparently the thirst is warned about.

 

[Fcancer]

Interesting. I wonder if he wanted the water because of the chocolate he was told to eat? It might have got stuck on the way down afterwards a little bit, he clearly wanted water right after taking the N but she insisted on the chocolate.

Eating chocolate makes your mouth/throat gluggy at the best of times. Let alone after drinking that solution which no doubt drys your throat. Seems pretty logical to want to go for the water.

 

[Chinaski]

Didnt he said: "It's a taste"? [the reason he ask for water] at 0:49sec?

To my ears he says "nasty taste", but is not gasping for water at that stage. There is a cut, again he seems fine, but the last thirty seconds or so he's clearly very red and demanding water in a way which, to me, suggests it's not at all about the taste.

 

[Chinaski]

I cannot stand that woman who hands out the poison, she gives me the willys everytime i see her on one of those videos . I dont know, was that neitche with the non existant crocodile tears?

No, it was Terry Pratchett, the author who was suffering from Alzheimers who made the documentary as an advocate of the right to die. I think he was genuinely affected by being in the same room as a man taking his own life.

 

[Chinaski]

@Sayo

The Pepto Bismol reference l actually found here:

https://www.nvve.nl/files/5614/6530/8019/George-Eighmey-G104-14-05-2016.pdf

This is a pdf about *alternatives* to N, not N itself, so l must apologise to the forum for my above post being misleading.

It does still raise the question about these 'caustic' effects also occurring in N, but to reiterate, the Smedley exit is still tolerable to me.

 

[Sayo]

@Sayo

The Pepto Bismol reference l actually found here:

https://www.nvve.nl/files/5614/6530/8019/George-Eighmey-G104-14-05-2016.pdf

This is a pdf about *alternatives* to N, not N itself, so l must apologise to the forum for my above post being misleading.

It does still raise the question about these 'caustic' effects also occurring in N, but to reiterate, the Smedley exit is still tolerable to me.

Well, I agree with you basically. I've never taken chloral hydrate and I can't find anything commenting on N being caustic (only 'gastrointestinal upsets'), but it does seem to cause the exact same problems for some people. Since its not universally reported but is warned about and comes up in some articles, I expect it is a matter of individual variability. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

If it's still tolerable to you, I probably wouldn't experiment, especially with Pepto Bismol because I don't think it's formulated as anything but a liquid. (And it tastes a bit wretched itself.) Just don't have any water around either because it might be a little difficult to resist when you're so groggy. It will pass quickly if it happens.

I'm sorry, I really wish there was concrete information on this. I think Nitschke doesn't write about this stuff because he wants to reassure his old (and rate-paying) audience at home it's all okay—many doctors gloss over things to avoid being questioned because they think they know best—but I really dislike that kind of medical paternalism.

 

[Chinaski]

I completely agree on that last paragraph re Nitschke. I'd also be keen to know more about 'gastro intestinal upsets' as my bowels are not the sturdiest and are generally very quick to tell me when I've pissed them off.