Venting Suicideal ideation is similar to addiction, at least to me

[KillingPain267]

Once I took drugs my brain learned that there is an easy handy "solution" to my symptoms, and it will always keep that in mind when the pain becomes unbearable. Similarly, once I learned that there are suicide methods not too painful, my mind always goes to suicide as the solution to when I have another bout of severe depression and/or anxiety. Living a long life in a clear sober mind that experiences the full range of pain, and then dying slowly and painfully of aging anyway, is simply not an option I find reasonable when there are realistic quick solutions. It's like learning there is a cheat code.

 

[before20]

I never realized this was what I was feeling until I read this.

Especially the "cheat code" line; I find any bad decision can be justified with "I can always kill myself later".

 

[L'absent]

What you're saying makes sense. Once the brain has identified an immediate and concrete option to escape pain, it becomes difficult not to consider it as a way out every time suffering returns. It works exactly like conditioning: when you know there's a way to bypass the long and uncertain path of life, the mind keeps it in mind as a shortcut.
The analogy with a cheat code is interesting because, in a way, knowing that effective methods exist changes the way one perceives the concept of 'having to keep going.' The comparison between a long life full of suffering, inevitably followed by a slow decline, and the possibility of ending the game when deemed appropriate creates a fracture in the traditional understanding of existence.
If suicide becomes a constant thought and an ever-accessible option in the mind, it's not so much a question of if it will be used, but when and under what criteria. The awareness that quick and relatively painless methods exist shifts the perspective on life itself: instead of being an obligatory path, it turns into something that can be interrupted at any moment, with the only variable being when and whether it makes sense to do so.

 

[dexdbxtchthewxtch]

Honestly never thought of it that way! I guess there's always a sense of ease if you consider there's always an alternate route. Huh.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I never realized this was what I was feeling until I read this.

Especially the "cheat code" line; I find any bad decision can be justified with "I can always kill myself later".

Agree with that and the OP. But to me "I can always kill myself later" don't agree as I feel I need to act while I have the means and a good chance of succeeding in my suicide because that might not be the case "later". I Might not be able to later or my probability of success probably will lower or even thousands of times more difficult if not practically impossible. I believe in the moto take all your opportunities while u can u never know when they'll be gone, might not be there tomorrow

Example o could get brain damage from a stroke or car accident tomorrow and not be able to kill myself at all


Another example Nembutal was available online for years I procrastinated and feared gov arrest. Now that's gone . Nembutal would have made suicide many times easier

 

[KillingPain267]

What you're saying makes sense. Once the brain has identified an immediate and concrete option to escape pain, it becomes difficult not to consider it as a way out every time suffering returns. It works exactly like conditioning: when you know there's a way to bypass the long and uncertain path of life, the mind keeps it in mind as a shortcut.
The analogy with a cheat code is interesting because, in a way, knowing that effective methods exist changes the way one perceives the concept of 'having to keep going.' The comparison between a long life full of suffering, inevitably followed by a slow decline, and the possibility of ending the game when deemed appropriate creates a fracture in the traditional understanding of existence.
If suicide becomes a constant thought and an ever-accessible option in the mind, it's not so much a question of if it will be used, but when and under what criteria. The awareness that quick and relatively painless methods exist shifts the perspective on life itself: instead of being an obligatory path, it turns into something that can be interrupted at any moment, with the only variable being when and whether it makes sense to do so.

Exactly. Well said. The other big factor in this is the clear awareness that life will end anyway, and that most deaths of old age are no less scary or painless than most suicide methods. In fact, "natural death" is often far more painful for most (the "dying peacefully in sleep" is a meme). But many pro-lifers, when you hear them speak, it sounds like they believe that avoiding suicide means one is immortal, so they must have repressed the awareness of inevitable death for all.

 

[Electra]

I never realized this was what I was feeling until I read this.

Especially the "cheat code" line; I find any bad decision can be justified with "I can always kill myself later".

The last line is so morbid but at the same time it shows how ctb is viewed. It can be so calming to just know that nothing is permanent.

 

[KillingPain267]

Agree with that and the OP. But to me "I can always kill myself later" don't agree as I feel I need to act while I have the means and a good chance of succeeding in my suicide because that might not be the case "later".

I totally agree. In fact, ironically I stay sober and clean from drugs just because it makes my chances of a realistic suicide better (because I know I will lose the freedom and solitude needed to kill myself if I fuck up with drugs again since I have a family trying to "protect" me from myself).

 

[L'absent]

Exactly. Well said. The other big factor in this is the clear awareness that life will end anyway, and that most deaths of old age are no less scary or painless than most suicide methods. In fact, "natural death" is often far more painful for most (the "dying peacefully in sleep" is a meme). But many pro-lifers, when you hear them speak, it sounds like they believe that avoiding suicide means one is immortal, so they must have repressed the awareness of inevitable death for all.

The pro-life mentality does not often ignore reality—it always does. It lives in a fantasy world, filled with optimistic, banal, and completely unrealistic ideas. It paints suicide as the ultimate evil, conveniently forgetting (or pretending to forget) that natural death, in the overwhelming majority of cases, is a prolonged horror. Debilitating illnesses, chronic pain, years of physical and mental suffering that strip a person of their dignity—this is the reality of dying. Not the meme of "peacefully passing away in sleep" they tell themselves to feel better.
The pro-life rhetoric is simply stupid. It clings to blind idealism, denying the obvious fact that life is not inherently good nor always worth living. It's a selfish perspective, attempting to impose an absolute notion of "the value of life" without caring about individual experiences. And this is their greatest absurdity: defending existence at all costs, as if it were the ultimate good, even when it's marked by insurmountable suffering and a complete lack of quality.
These so-called "defenders of life" seem incapable of accepting death as a natural part of existence, let alone the right to choose how and when to face it. Their forced optimism, completely detached from reality, only perpetuates the idea that those who don't conform to this worldview are "wrong" or "weak." In truth, the real weakness lies with them: their inability to confront pain, mortality, and suffering without hiding behind platitudes and illusions.

 

[YoungJijii]

This sorta has been me since I was 16-17

 

[onthefence]

I sometimes refer to my CTB desire as my "escape hatch." If things get too bad I can leave. It's comforting knowing it will always be there.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Passive ideation has long been a comfort for me also. As in- if things get too much, I can just leave. Still, active ideation isn't so calming! Actually making an attempt is terrifying to me still.

I wonder about our emotions though too. Like those Gotye lyrics: 'You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness'. I wonder if our brains just get lodged into patterns of feeling sad- I guess that's depression in a way. So that feeling sad starts to feel familiar and safe. And, to challenge that feeling becomes harder. Plus, it carries risk. If you start to feel better/ happier but then, lose that feeling and crash back down, it can feel even worse.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Every human being knows this option since they learn the word suicide as a child and yes it gives a comforting feeling.

The thought "I can always kill myself later" might have the effect that I will never do it, because there is a point in time when I am not able anymore to kill myself.

Being addicted to something means that you need to have this something. If the addiction is suicide ideation you have to be alive to have this ideation.

 

[KillingPain267]

Passive ideation has long been a comfort for me also. As in- if things get too much, I can just leave. Still, active ideation isn't so calming! Actually making an attempt is terrifying to me still.

I wonder about our emotions though too. Like those Gotye lyrics: 'You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness'. I wonder if our brains just get lodged into patterns of feeling sad- I guess that's depression in a way. So that feeling sad starts to feel familiar and safe. And, to challenge that feeling becomes harder. Plus, it carries risk. If you start to feel better/ happier but then, lose that feeling and crash back down, it can feel even worse.

Yes, to use the analogy of addiction again, it might create neural pathways which are then not easy to change. We would have to learn how to deal with pain without resorting to substances or thoughts of ending it all. And yes, getting better and then crashing down is a common distress for those who relapse on substances. Relapsing just a little bit feels more shameful and destructive than being an active user who doesn't try sobriety yet.

Every human being knows this option since they learn the word suicide as a child and yes it gives a comforting feeling.

But not every human being has the knowledge about a realistic relatively painless effective method in mind. Some people are suicidal but shudder at the thought of having to overcome the fear to jump or hang. Once a more comfortable method is in reach, suicide can become the solution to more and more simple problems because the brain knows about this "cheat code".

Being addicted to something means that you need to have this something. If the addiction is suicide ideation you have to be alive to have this ideation.

No, that's drug dependence. Addiction is the psychological craving and thought of using a substance or substances. So you can have an addict mind without currently using, being dependent on or in withdrawals of a drug. An addict may even be at risk of relapsing with another drug that they have not used before.

I'm not saying suicidal ideation is an addiction. I'm saying it's similar to how addiction works (in that it might create pathways in the mind once it has started). Suicidal ideation even has something similar to relapses, as seen on this site.

 

[slinkey10]

Once I took drugs my brain learned that there is an easy handy "solution" to my symptoms, and it will always keep that in mind when the pain becomes unbearable. Similarly, once I learned that there are suicide methods not too painful, my mind always goes to suicide as the solution to when I have another bout of severe depression and/or anxiety. Living a long life in a clear sober mind that experiences the full range of pain, and then dying slowly and painfully of aging anyway, is simply not an option I find reasonable when there are realistic quick solutions. It's like learning there is a cheat code.

Sounds Similar to self harm, doing something that overpowers the immediate feeling/emotion.

Habit formation can be re-wired but..... we are on sansu where suffering is merged with every moment of our lives so, I can relate & am locked into how I feel & almost always auto think to suicide - I have to stop myself sometimes as its too draining and I have work etc and practicalities of this bs life.

Addiction is bs.... you just end up overcomming & replacing one addiction with something else. This lifes a trap in every direction.
"Living a long life in a clear sober mind that experiences the full range of pain" - no, you just experience the same bs sober. You may not be so reactive but so what...

Sorry - positive spin on this, you arent doing crack or heroin or damaging others. Dont be too hard on yourself - this world is f'd , not u :)

 

[tiredoflife2]

It's my default too, very comforting when it gets too much to think I can always end it and escape the suffering. I guess when things are uncertain in life, often anxiety stems from this, knowing you have a means to ctb gives you the feeling of control.

 

[The_Hunter]

Is that why my mind sometimes feels immediately to the thought of dying when faced with core stress??

I must say, thank you for the thoughts shared on this thread. I think I understand the nature & function of my thoughts in myself a touch better in this regard, now, thanks to your ideas. My regards.

--Hunter

 

[Cloud Busting]

I knew I found the right drug counselor when she mentioned telling a former client that crack saved their life.

When drugs are no longer an option, then suicide is, and vice versa. You are absolutely right that what the two have in common is instant relief and escape from psychological pain. I imagine many people with depression/suicidal ideation struggle with addiction as well. I know I do. Mental health professionals call it dual diagnosis/co-occuring.

 

[onthefence]

I knew I found the right drug counselor when she mentioned telling a former client that crack saved their life.

When drugs are no longer an option, then suicide is, and vice versa. You are absolutely right that what the two have in common is instant relief and escape from psychological pain. I imagine many people with depression/suicidal ideation struggle with addiction as well. I know I do. Mental health professionals call it dual diagnosis/co-occuring.

I can understand this. I would really like to CTB but use SH and alcohol as ways to mitigate the stress. Without some release I would be gone by now.

 

[Cloud Busting]

I can understand this. I would really like to CTB but use SH and alcohol as ways to mitigate the stress. Without some release I would be gone by now.

Yeah I can't bring myself to do dope anymore. My boyfriend got clean and he's doing so much better, plus I'm a piece of shit when I'm on it. I've been thinking about suicide again as a result. The reason I relapsed in the first place is my failed suicide attempt had me realizing my family and close ones did not view my suffering as a burden, but I couldn't overcome my pain and felt trapped. It was a compromise and a way to stay alive. Survival in a sense.

I cannot decide what's better- being dead or strung out or drunk. I'm trying Buddhism I guess. I feel like an absolute sell out reaching to spirituality and stuff but I need a nihilism cure. Buddhists make the most sense in terms of suffering to me. I'm scared to change because it's like losing a piece of myself but I'm tired of hurting everyone around me (and there's the concepts of impermanence and non self which negates the attachment towards identity anyway.) Yet also if an actual, honest effort to change fails, drugs, alcohol, and death will always be there. It's such a comfort. I'm so scared to become wholesome, healthy, positive, and to live life. Why am I so loyal to the ones I love?

Addiction is bs.... you just end up overcomming & replacing one addiction with something else. This lifes a trap in every direction.

People don't just willing choose addiction, nor is it a choice. I take personal responsibility for deciding to drink and use hard drugs, but like many who take the risk, I believed I was special and it wouldn't happen to me. Then it did and I lived in denial because I didn't want to admit I no longer had a choice. The shame ran deep.

Why do you think life is a trap? I don't necessarily agree. Life is meaningless, and the trap to me is the search for pleasure and meaning, not existence itself. I think people can heal from addiction. I don't think developing healthy coping skills is the same as an addiction. In addiction you are bonded and chained to a behavior or substance, rendered subordinate at the expense of someone's profit. A distraction is not the same as addiction. Behaviors in life are just distractions from the fact we one day will die and our existence is null, void, and that were a mere speck in a world that is grander and far superior than us. We are connected to the world anyway. What are we but stardust anyhow?

"Living a long life in a clear sober mind that experiences the full range of pain" - no, you just experience the same bs sober. You may not be so reactive but so what...

Sorry - positive spin on this, you arent doing crack or heroin or damaging others. Dont be too hard on yourself - this world is f'd , not u :)

To say "so what" is absolutely dismissive of someone's pain. To be less reactive is absolutely the point of numbing yourself with addictive behaviors (especially substances.) If someone cannot stand life to the point of making it less shitty temporarily despite the destruction it causes, it's not so what. Yeah life is still shitty, but it's less shitty drunk and high. That is absolutely significant for some, even if you don't relate. Also to shit on people with addictions you consider worse at the expense of being positive or to make someone feel better is offensive to people with those said addictions.

You clearly haven't experienced an addiction. Please do not talk shit or provide advice on topics you don't understand or know- especially on a board like this. You sound like a pro-lifer with such ostensible empathy. But hey, at least the OP isn't a meth addict like me!

Wise speech my child. I feel like you threw me and others with hard drug addictions on this board under the bus even if you meant well.

 

[slinkey10]

Yeah I can't bring myself to do dope anymore. My boyfriend got clean and he's doing so much better, plus I'm a piece of shit when I'm on it. I've been thinking about suicide again as a result. The reason I relapsed in the first place is my failed suicide attempt had me realizing my family and close ones did not view my suffering as a burden, but I couldn't overcome my pain and felt trapped. It was a compromise and a way to stay alive. Survival in a sense.

I cannot decide what's better- being dead or strung out or drunk. I'm trying Buddhism I guess. I feel like an absolute sell out reaching to spirituality and stuff but I need a nihilism cure. Buddhists make the most sense in terms of suffering to me. I'm scared to change because it's like losing a piece of myself but I'm tired of hurting everyone around me (and there's the concepts of impermanence and non self which negates the attachment towards identity anyway.) Yet also if an actual, honest effort to change fails, drugs, alcohol, and death will always be there. It's such a comfort. I'm so scared to become wholesome, healthy, positive, and to live life. Why am I so loyal to the ones I love?

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People don't just willing choose addiction, nor is it a choice. I take personal responsibility for deciding to drink and use hard drugs, but like many who take the risk, I believed I was special and it wouldn't happen to me. Then it did and I lived in denial because I didn't want to admit I no longer had a choice. The shame ran deep.

Why do you think life is a trap? I don't necessarily agree. Life is meaningless, and the trap to me is the search for pleasure and meaning, not existence itself. I think people can heal from addiction. I don't think developing healthy coping skills is the same as an addiction. In addiction you are bonded and chained to a behavior or substance, rendered subordinate at the expense of someone's profit. A distraction is not the same as addiction. Behaviors in life are just distractions from the fact we one day will die and our existence is null, void, and that were a mere speck in a world that is grander and far superior than us. We are connected to the world anyway. What are we but stardust anyhow?



To say "so what" is absolutely dismissive of someone's pain. To be less reactive is absolutely the point of numbing yourself with addictive behaviors (especially substances.) If someone cannot stand life to the point of making it less shitty temporarily despite the destruction it causes, it's not so what. Yeah life is still shitty, but it's less shitty drunk and high. That is absolutely significant for some, even if you don't relate. Also to shit on people with addictions you consider worse at the expense of being positive or to make someone feel better is offensive to people with those said addictions.

You clearly haven't experienced an addiction. Please do not talk shit or provide advice on topics you don't understand or know- especially on a board like this. You sound like a pro-lifer with such ostensible empathy. But hey, at least the OP isn't a meth addict like me!

Wise speech my child. I feel like you threw me and others with hard drug addictions on this board under the bus even if you meant well.

"To say "so what" is absolutely dismissive of someone's pain."

cmon... thats not in the context of what I said or was implying at all.

What I was saying was alcohol or ANY drugs = more reactive, no alcohol/drugs = less reactive but, in both states u still feel the same bs. Body remembers trauma with or without. FACT.

Thats literally all I was saying - sorry if I didnt convery that. & yes I have experienced multiple addictions - You managed to get I havent experienced addiction from my post - wow!

Im doing no comment to your comments going fowards.

Good luck.

 

[Cloud Busting]

"To say "so what" is absolutely dismissive of someone's pain."

cmon... thats not in the context of what I said or was implying at all.

What I was saying was alcohol or ANY drugs = more reactive, no alcohol/drugs = less reactive but, in both states u still feel the same bs. Body remembers trauma with or without. FACT.

Thats literally all I was saying - sorry if I didnt convery that. & yes I have experienced multiple addictions - You managed to get I havent experienced addiction from my post - wow!

Im doing no comment to your comments going fowards.

Good luck.

Ok, I misunderstood you. If what you're saying is that substance abuse is only a cover or temporary escape and it doesn't resolve suffering- only delays it- then I would agree. To me it's mistaken but understandable people would want to escape their pain, but not a solution no. I think I was just put off by your blunt/direct communication style.

I was offended when you told op at least they're not addicted to heroin or cocaine because I took it personally. I have friends and family who struggled with opiates. I'm a recovering meth addict. I remember I used to think "at least I'm not that person!" or, "well it's not blues at least." Or how I used to judge the shit out of people for being addicts and only had empathy when it happened to me. Addicts are constantly judged and stigmatized, so I can get quite protective and cagey.

I overreacted, especially when I assumed you weren't an addict. That was wrong of me. I don't expect a response or for you to accept an apology, but I'm sorry. Thank you for clarifying. I should have asked questions rather than assume.

 

[Electra]

The last line is so morbid but at the same time it shows how ctb is viewed. It can be so calming to just know that nothing is permanent.

Now I kinda need this mindset to activate itself again.