Venting Suicide prevention is extreme cruelty

[DreamEnd]

Drugs? Should of course be taken responsibly, just listen to Joe Rogan. Whereas mental issues? People use those terms now complacently, rendering it useless. Would you deny human rights to folks with IQs lower than 100, too? They might be considered disabled by some metrics!

You didnt answer my question. Should we allow people under the influence of drugs or mania or psychosis to commit ctb if they wanted to? Your human rights question is incredibly useless. Of course I would allow human rights to folks with low iq. Whats your point? Answer my question. I have asked you this 3 times already

Would premediated suicide count as impulsive if a person kills himself upon reaching a certain state? For example, learning that the Russians are 500m away from the Bunker?

Thats actually rational suicide and not impulsive.

If a child wants to die, chances are it's getting raped, what else can there be? Ah, also getting beaten, starved and imprisoned, but that's par for the course.

Um, no? Child can want to die for any reason lmao. Maybe they are bullied at school. Should we allow them to do so if they are getting bullied? And in case they are being abused, should we allow them to kill themselves instead of seeing whether they can actually get help and improve their living situation?

And if I were to go further (I vaguely expect it to sound offensive), I might say that suicidal children ought to be killed off because it's easier for them to leave this world behind, having far less live experience to anchor them.

This is actually insane. Now I undersstand why @Moonymoon ignored you. You cant follow the conversation. You dont have any reasonable prescriptions for how society should operate. You sound like a literal psychopath and I hope none of the parents kids are anywhere near you because with these views it looks like you have severe genocidal tendencies. Holy shit

No single moniker designates my views. Incels are actually incredibly traditional and pro-life, normie-like. I'm merely trying to get on @FuneralCry's side, because if not me, then who? I have to balance my yearning for immortality with some unironic pro-mortalism, after all.

How is it cruel to kill a willing child if 90% of normies beat and torture and shout and imprison their kids, with nobody batting an eyelid? LMAO kek

oh wow. 90% of normies beat and torture children? Imprison them as well? Holy shit I didnt know that. Care to share a source on that? Not just on how many children are punished for their misbehavior but how many are actually tortured by their parents. Id love to see it. You are legitimately insane I have been on sasu for 2 years and I have never met anyone with these views. Holy shit

 

[Aim]

You didnt answer my question. Should we allow people under the influence of drugs or mania or psychosis to commit ctb if they wanted to? Your human rights question is incredibly useless. Of course I would allow human rights to folks with low iq. Whats your point? Answer my question. I have asked you this 3 times already

Thats actually rational suicide and not impulsive.

Um, no? Child can want to die for any reason lmao. Maybe they are bullied at school. Should we allow them to do so if they are getting bullied? And in case they are being abused, should we allow them to kill themselves instead of seeing whether they can actually get help and improve their living situation?

This is actually insane. Now I undersstand why @Moonymoon ignored you. You cant follow the conversation. You dont have any reasonable prescriptions for how society should operate. You sound like a literal psychopath and I hope none of the parents kids are anywhere near you because with these views it looks like you have severe genocidal tendencies. Holy shit

oh wow. 90% of normies beat and torture children? Imprison them as well? Holy shit I didnt know that. Care to share a source on that? Not just on how many children are punished for their misbehavior but how many are actually tortured by their parents. Id love to see it. You are legitimately insane I have been on sasu for 2 years and I have never met anyone with these views. Holy shit

@Adûnâi It's honestly utterly disturbing that what your saying regardless especially children. Did you know that childrens brains aren't even fully developed, and that they are way to young to even be capable of taking a rational decision regarding taking suicide. Children doesn't grasp the reality of consequences This is just bullshit. Hopefully you will never have children of your own, if that's your best resolvent skills. Humanity obliviously means nothing to you. Where is your empathy I wonder?

 

[Adûnâi]

You dont have any reasonable prescriptions for how society should operate.

Realistically, I wouldn't view human rights and human free will as useful concepts for such a society at all. But we're here trying to ponder at the most individualistic reality, right? If taken that logic, I would view human life as a gaming match - we don't get soul-crushed at typing gg and leaving. We simply go next.

Ultimately, is life a 1v1 or a team game? It's the latter, that's why human choice makes no sense. But if we want to believe, then it's a 1v1 - and Blizzard doesn't punish you for tanking your MMR because your build order is off by 1 sec.

Not just on how many children are punished for their misbehavior but how many are actually tortured by their parents.

Ah, so you support beating children lmao.

(I'm not trolling here, dead serious. Using euphemisms such as "punishing for misbehaviour" is irrelevant. I was never beaten, and it horrifies me that beating children is justifiable.)

You are legitimately insane I have been on sasu for 2 years and I have never met anyone with these views. Holy shit

Umm, this thread has been started by the one and only @FuneralCry...

 

[DreamEnd]

Realistically, I wouldn't view human rights and human free will as useful concepts for such a society at all. But we're here trying to ponder at the most individualistic reality, right? If taken that logic, I would view human life as a gaming match - we don't get soul-crushed at typing gg and leaving. We simply go next.

Ultimately, is life a 1v1 or a team game? It's the latter, that's why human choice makes no sense. But if we want to believe, then it's a 1v1 - and Blizzard doesn't punish you for tanking your MMR because your build order is off by 1 sec.


Ah, so you support beating children lmao.

(I'm not trolling here, dead serious. Using euphemisms such as "punishing for misbehaviour" is irrelevant. I was never beaten, and it horrifies me that beating children is justifiable.)


Umm, this thread has been started by the one and only @FuneralCry...

You didnt answer any of my questions lmao.....
You realize punishing children for misbehavior doesnt equate to beating them? Also you specifically said torturing them and inprisoning them. Show me data
Also respond to what moony moon said about children. You seem to have no idea about anything. Its useless talking to you

 

[Adûnâi]

Hopefully you will never have children of your own, if that's your best resolvent skills. Humanity obliviously means nothing to you. Where is your empathy I wonder?

I'm not talking about burning children alive (what normies did all the time in Carthage). Nor raping them (which is fairly common). Let alone letting them die of smallpox (commonplace before the vaccines and industrial age). What's so empathetic about forcing them to reach an older age where, as you have admitted, choosing to die is tied to mental hardship?

And of course, I'm an isolated incel, and would never have children myself, the very concept is repulsive. Much worse than rape. For all parties involved, ironically. (Aside from Yeshua, that old sadist.)

 

[DreamEnd]

I'm not talking about burning children alive (what normies did all the time in Carthage). Nor raping them (which is fairly common). Let alone letting them die of smallpox (commonplace before the vaccines and industrial age). What's so empathetic about forcing them to reach an older age where, as you have admitted, choosing to die is tied to mental hardship?

And of course, I'm an isolated incel, and would never have children myself, the very concept is repulsive. Much worse than rape. For all parties involved, ironically. (Aside from Yeshua, that old sadist.)

Lol do you think literally every single person of old age wants to die because of mental hardship? Some old people have grand kids, comfy retirement and they enjoy themselves. Also, why the fixture on old age? Some can die of a heart attack at 50. Some wont live till 40. Painting at all as forcing children to live until old age is completely dishonest. Um, having children is worse than rape? Ok bro idk at this point if you are trolling or not but this is getting waaay too out of hand lmao

 

[Adûnâi]

Lol do you think literally every single person of old age wants to die because of mental hardship?

I meant mental hardship connected to resolving to die after having lived for a longer while. Old Hobbits die hard.

Um, having children is worse than rape? Ok bro idk at this point if you are trolling or not but this is getting waaay too out of hand lmao

Lemme think...

...Alright, I guess, rape with impregnation might be worse! But then, it's just having kids with extra steps lmao? My original idea was that at least the rapist gets to enjoy the process, whereas in a parent-child relationship, both sides are suffering - the parent has to smell shit for 20 years, and the child has to endure abuse for 20 years. Hence why I called it worse than rape.

Apologies for my course language, I can afford it because nobody will understand it anyway. Aside from @FuneralCry maybe xd?

 

[noname223]

I have thought a lot about FuneralCry recently. The thread where she claimed this forum was pro-life and too mainstream let me question her role in this forum even more. Someone mentioned he gets suicide fetishism vibes of her. And honestly to some extent I get them too. I have written the following post some time ago. I weighed up the pros and cons of posting it. This might be the first and maybe last time I will leave my remarks on her. The thread here is not the main problem. There are many valid reasons for criticizing the suicide prevention regulations. However her whole and sole role in this forum just seems off and this thread adds up to it. I don't really think she is an evil person but she is not really aware of something. The following post is not written to insult her but will probably be perceived as such:


First, I wanted to post an own thread for this topic. However I don't want to add much more drama to the controversy surrounding FuneralCry. So far I barely commented on FuneralCry in this forum. She always treated me fairly. I often had the feeling we had some sort of peace agreement. In my mind I called it jokingly the Hitler-Stalin Pact. If you find that inappropriate we could call it Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. I think we know each other well enough that we have quite some differences regarding our beliefs. She is often the sole person that tries to comfort people who barely receive messages in their threads. A couple of times this applied to my threads. She is popular among some people I like. And I always was scared to make me some enemies with posting my opinion on her. And it felt unthankful to do so because she was replying to my threads when no one else did.


I posted several threads in recovery to help people in their recovery and for quite some times I was scared to be called pro-lifer for that. Also for portraying suicide as a decision of last resort. I don't think my post on her will change much. So why am I still posting it? I also had a guilty conscience not to comment on her because I fear that some (not a few) of her posts can be harmful to others. I had this feeling for quite some time. But I don't know how to address it. I think the behavior is sort of pathological (because of her autism) and I know well enough that pathologies can be quite strong if not almost unbeatable. I think an intervention (with arguments) won't change that much. It similar to my ruminating or posting myriads of threads. It rather seems to polarize the debate to criticize her. I am not sure whether to talk about her in third person or second person is the right thing. I am not sure whether she will read this. So I will talk about her in third person. I think she rather gets reinforced in her beliefs if people criticize her especially if there are sometimes offensive jokes about her posted. Still I think it is sort of my duty to address my issues. In my opinion sometimes the polemic about her gets way too much and targets her as a person. However, if one considers the damage she might cause with her posts one could call such jokes rather harmless if we weigh the impact of these actions. I had a guilty conscience for not speaking up against some of her behavior. But as I already depicted it there were also a lot of ambivalences.

I am also not sure whether it is better to wait to post this post until the big fuss is over. Or whether if I post it in some weeks it will just fuel the controversy again to later time point. My intent is not to insult her and I will try to spare as much polemic as possible.



FuneralCry is pro-death. And there is no way around that fact. We also don't necessarily need to talk terms because the terms themselves are rather meaningless. But she emphasized that she thinks pro-mortalism is the right thing and well that is just another term for being pro-death. I think it is okay to be pro-mortalism if you know the boundaries. It is okay to have that mindset for your own life (in my opinion). But if you apply that logic to the lives of others it can become delicate. The territory can be quite dangerous. The big problem I have with FuneralCry is the following: there is a discrepancy between the way she thinks about her own suicide and about the suicide of others. If you want to make this point she labels you pro-life. Which sort of shows that such labels get weaponized which is in itself a problem. There are also people defending her if one makes that point. And they argue this implied to encourage her to commit suicide. I certainly don't want to encourage her to commit suicide. I would even recommend to her not to commit suicide and see it as a way of last resort. However, doing this with more arguments would be called pro-life by her because this is the suicide discussion. And this shows how absurd this argument is. To point that out does not encourage her to commit suicide usually. There were some encouragements in this context though and I think I and/or others reported them.

I think logic will not convince her. But I still try it. FC says her SI is too strong to commit suicide, further that there are no safe methods, that the access to lethal and secure methods is way too restricted. And thus she is not able to commit suicide which she otherwise would do. Personally I just have the feeling in the future when many people in this forum have committed suicide she still will be here complaining that suicide is too difficult and that the access has to get easier. It feels wrong. Because the standards for her own life and the lives of others is so different. I also don't take everything she says at face value. She sounds scared about suicide. Me too, I can relate to that. Many things can go wrong. But this applies to (almost) everyone in this forum. We are all sort of scared to mess it up and be in a worse position afterwards if we fail. But the concerns you have about your own life applies also to others. Others also battle with SI. Others also can fail and end up way worse than before. Others are also anxious as fuck. To express you admire people who find the courage to do it feels just wrong. Especially if you have so different standards for your own life. It pretty much feels like projecting your own wish to die on others. It feels like she finds relief in the notion that others commit suicide or die. And that feels very questionable. Others have their own ethical beliefs and that is fine. Others can value (their) life and see suicide as something to avoid as good as possible. One could also argue about her behavior to call her opinions straight facts but I think this is not the main issue with her behavior.


As others pointed out. Her behavior makes us look like a death cult. Especially because the media loves to point at the bad apples of this community. I think it is very positive that FC's behavior gets questioned. But I think many comments are too personal and sort of offensive. Moreover it is absurd to call this website pro-life just because others criticize you.


I will end it here. Not sure when I will post this post. I will wait for the right time point. I think a single thread about one certain member is usually not appreciated. However, the discussion about FC is bigger than anything else about a single member in this forum.

 

[DreamEnd]

I meant mental hardship connected to resolving to die after having lived for a longer while. Old Hobbits die hard.

idk. I think old people are more accepting of death than younger folk

Lemme think...

...Alright, I guess, rape with impregnation might be worse! But then, it's just having kids with extra steps lmao? My original idea was that at least the rapist gets to enjoy the process, whereas in a parent-child relationship, both sides are suffering - the parent has to smell shit for 20 years, and the child has to endure abuse for 20 years. Hence why I called it worse than rape.

Apologies for my course language, I can afford it because nobody will understand it anyway. Aside from @FuneralCry maybe xd?

Not every child endures abuse. Not every parent is uncomfortable or suffering raising a child. Again you are generalizing everybody.

I have thought a lot about FuneralCry recently. The thread where she claimed this forum was pro-life and too mainstream let me question her role in this forum even more. Someone mentioned he gets suicide fetishism vibes of her. And honestly to some extent I get them too. I have written the following post some time ago. I weighed up the pros and cons of posting it. This might be the first and maybe last time I will leave my remarks on her. The thread here is not the main problem. There are many valid reasons for criticizing the suicide prevention regulations. However her whole and sole role in this forum just seems off and this thread adds up to it. I don't really think she is an evil person but she is not really aware of something. The following post is not written to insult her but will probably be perceived as such:


First, I wanted to post an own thread for this topic. However I don't want to add much more drama to the controversy surrounding FuneralCry. So far I barely commented on FuneralCry in this forum. She always treated me fairly. I often had the feeling we had some sort of peace agreement. In my mind I called it jokingly the Hitler-Stalin Pact. If you find that inappropriate we could call it Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. I think we know each other well enough that we have quite some differences regarding our beliefs. She is often the sole person that tries to comfort people who barely receive messages in their threads. A couple of times this applied to my threads. She is popular among some people I like. And I always was scared to make me some enemies with posting my opinion on her. And it felt unthankful to do so because she was replying to my threads when no one else did.


I posted several threads in recovery to help people in their recovery and for quite some times I was scared to be called pro-lifer for that. Also for portraying suicide as a decision of last resort. I don't think my post on her will change much. So why am I still posting it? I also had a guilty conscience not to comment on her because I fear that some (not a few) of her posts can be harmful to others. I had this feeling for quite some time. But I don't know how to address it. I think the behavior is sort of pathological (because of her autism) and I know well enough that pathologies can be quite strong if not almost unbeatable. I think an intervention (with arguments) won't change that much. It similar to my ruminating or posting myriads of threads. It rather seems to polarize the debate to criticize her. I am not sure whether to talk about her in third person or second person is the right thing. I am not sure whether she will read this. So I will talk about her in third person. I think she rather gets reinforced in her beliefs if people criticize her especially if there are sometimes offensive jokes about her posted. Still I think it is sort of my duty to address my issues. In my opinion sometimes the polemic about her gets way too much and targets her as a person. However, if one considers the damage she might cause with her posts one could call such jokes rather harmless if we weigh the impact of these actions. I had a guilty conscience for not speaking up against some of her behavior. But as I already depicted it there were also a lot of ambivalences.

I am also not sure whether it is better to wait to post this post until the big fuss is over. Or whether if I post it in some weeks it will just fuel the controversy again to later time point. My intent is not to insult her and I will try to spare as much polemic as possible.



FuneralCry is pro-death. And there is no way around that fact. We also don't necessarily need to talk terms because the terms themselves are rather meaningless. But she emphasized that she thinks pro-mortalism is the right thing and well that is just another term for being pro-death. I think it is okay to be pro-mortalism if you know the boundaries. It is okay to have that mindset for your own life (in my opinion). But if you apply that logic to the lives of others it can become delicate. The territory can be quite dangerous. The big problem I have with FuneralCry is the following: there is a discrepancy between the way she thinks about her own suicide and about the suicide of others. If you want to make this point she labels you pro-life. Which sort of shows that such labels get weaponized which is in itself a problem. There are also people defending her if one makes that point. And they argue this implied to encourage her to commit suicide. I certainly don't want to encourage her to commit suicide. I would even recommend to her not to commit suicide and see it as a way of last resort. However, doing this with more arguments would be called pro-life by her because this is the suicide discussion. And this shows how absurd this argument is. To point that out does not encourage her to commit suicide usually. There were some encouragements in this context though and I think I and/or others reported them.

I think logic will not convince her. But I still try it. FC says her SI is too strong to commit suicide, further that there are no safe methods, that the access to lethal and secure methods is way too restricted. And thus she is not able to commit suicide which she otherwise would do. Personally I just have the feeling in the future when many people in this forum have committed suicide she still will be here complaining that suicide is too difficult and that the access has to get easier. It feels wrong. Because the standards for her own life and the lives of others is so different. I also don't take everything she says at face value. She sounds scared about suicide. Me too, I can relate to that. Many things can go wrong. But this applies to (almost) everyone in this forum. We are all sort of scared to mess it up and be in a worse position afterwards if we fail. But the concerns you have about your own life applies also to others. Others also battle with SI. Others also can fail and end up way worse than before. Others are also anxious as fuck. To express you admire people who find the courage to do it feels just wrong. Especially if you have so different standards for your own life. It pretty much feels like projecting your own wish to die on others. It feels like she finds relief in the notion that others commit suicide or die. And that feels very questionable. Others have their own ethical beliefs and that is fine. Others can value (their) life and see suicide as something to avoid as good as possible. One could also argue about her behavior to call her opinions straight facts but I think this is not the main issue with her behavior.


As others pointed out. Her behavior makes us look like a death cult. Especially because the media loves to point at the bad apples of this community. I think it is very positive that FC's behavior gets questioned. But I think many comments are too personal and sort of offensive. Moreover it is absurd to call this website pro-life just because others criticize you.


I will end it here. Not sure when I will post this post. I will wait for the right time point. I think a single thread about one certain member is usually not appreciated. However, the discussion about FC is bigger than anything else about a single member in this forum.

very well put

 

[Adûnâi]

To express you admire people who find the courage to do it feels just wrong. Especially if you have so different standards for your own life.

I think, the crux of the matter is that most people focus on the human "right" to "choose", whereas the pro-mortalist philosophy rejects such notions, and would rather everyone accept solace in death. This is why I cannot consider the critique of FuneralCry as something serious and unnormielike. Yes, it sounds radical, extreme, and I'm naturally drawn to such ideas, and consider them grand. But so what? Reality is much worse than pro-mortalist - reality is lifecucked. Where people make more people to abuse, and then kick the bucket themselves.

Ultimately, I refuse to see a tragedy in an extinction of humanity. All this cultural heritage is built on revolting foundations. I would much prefer the final grey goo solution, with nanobots covering the planet and extinguishing all life. And/or an AI superintelligence lording over the barren land, thinking a thought in solitude.

What's wrong with being happy for people successfully killing themselves? Hell, I'm sure plenty here envy the dead. It's to be expected.

As regards the normies - they will always shun you, there is no point proving that you're a good boy, it's useless. It's like those spineless cowards trying to bleat about how "the liberals are the real racists" - stop talking to your avowed enemy!

All that said, I'm not sure what @FuneralCry thinks on the general pro-life feeling in the normie population. Because I will be bluntly honest and admit that there is the demand for suicide is tragically negligible. She would probably be horrified, and you would be content, and that's it. I don't think she's suggesting inventing a virus to exterminate mankind (it's even harder than suicide xd).

 

[DreamEnd]

I think, the crux of the matter is that most people focus on the human "right" to "choose", whereas the pro-mortalist philosophy rejects such notions, and would rather everyone accept solace in death. This is why I cannot consider the critique of FuneralCry as something serious and unnormielike. Yes, it sounds radical, extreme, and I'm naturally drawn to such ideas, and consider them grand. But so what? Reality is much worse than pro-mortalist - reality is lifecucked. Where people make more people to abuse, and then kick the bucket themselves.

Ultimately, I refuse to see a tragedy in an extinction of humanity. All this cultural heritage is built on revolting foundations. I would much prefer the final grey goo solution, with nanobots covering the planet and extinguishing all life. And/or an AI superintelligence lording over the barren land, thinking a thought in solitude.

What's wrong with being happy for people successfully killing themselves? Hell, I'm sure plenty here envy the dead. It's to be expected.

As regards the normies - they will always shun you, there is no point proving that you're a good boy, it's useless. It's like those spineless cowards trying to bleat about how "the liberals are the real racists" - stop talking to your avowed enemy!

All that said, I'm not sure what @FuneralCry thinks on the general pro-life feeling in the normie population. Because I will be bluntly honest and admit that there is the demand for suicide is tragically negligible. She would probably be horrified, and you would be content, and that's it. I don't think she's suggesting inventing a virus to exterminate mankind (it's even harder than suicide xd).

I'm glad most people don't think like you do. That would be a disaster

 

[zombiegirl]

this is a huge gray area. mental illness can make you think irrationally--as someone with bipolar, my depressive episodes can make me genuinely think suicide is the only rational decision, the only way out, but once i'm stable again i realize it wasn't really "me" who was making that choice

i think if someone is consistently suicidal or suffering for like, maybe over 5-ish years, they should be allowed to die on their own terms, otherwise they should be helped as much as possible. treatment resistant illnesses i feel are the exception to this, like if someone is just not improving no matter how hard they try, then yeah, suicide SHOULD be an option

especially bc HAVING suicide as an option can actually lower the risk of someone taking their own life impulsively, since they know they will always have the choice whenever they decide theyre ready