Venting Suicide prevention is extreme cruelty

[FuneralCry]

No matter what suicide prevention will always be extreme cruelty, it's cruelty to want to enslave people in this undesirable existence and stop them finding true peace and freedom from all suffering. Suicide prevention is so cruel and harmful to me as no matter what existence itself will always be the true problem rather than the very valid wish to be free from it, wanting to die is all that makes sense to me which is why I'm disgusted by those delusional pro-life people who want to make it so others suffer for as long as possible.

The option to die in peace should be there at all times especially as existence is so futile and hellish with no limit as to how much one can suffer, no matter what I'd always prefer to not exist, any kind of suicide prevention is just prolonging suffering as after all the more time spent trapped here in this existence just means more opportunities to suffer.

But in general it's just extreme cruelty how suicide is seen as something to prevent rather than support and accept as a very valid personal choice. Nobody consented to this dreadful and meaningless existence so people should simply be able to cease existing when they want to and it's not other people's place to interfere with that. In my case I see suicide as very rational to prevent all future unnecessary suffering which is why the whole idea of suicide prevention is so incredibly delusional to me in the first place.

 

[Adûnâi]

Indeed, a very based take, FuneralCry, suicide prevention is the same brain-damaged normie reaction as the hatred of incels.

 

[DreamEnd]

You are saying anyone who wants to ctb should be able to?
So if someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol decided to should we just let them?
Or someone who just broke up and is in the aftereffect phase should we just let them to?
I'm not saying suicide prevention is all nice and all but you have to differentiate between impulsive and rational suicide.

 

[4g1vvvven]

You are saying anyone who wants to ctb should be able to?
So if someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol decided to should we just let them?
Or someone who just broke up and is in the aftereffect phase should we just let them to?
I'm not saying suicide prevention is all nice and all but you have to differentiate between impulsive and rational suicide.

When would you say it ceases to be impulsive and becomes rational?

Most people view the act of ideating as evidence that you're not in your right mind

 

[DreamEnd]

When would you say it ceases to be impulsive and becomes rational?

Most people view the act of ideating as evidence that you're not in your right mind

i think that if you have had this ideation for a while without any treatment helping you then it can be rational. It is hard to differentiate though between the two, it would depend on each individual person. But you would agree that someone wanting to jump out of the window while under psychosis from drugs is probably not doing it in their right state of mind right?

 

[4g1vvvven]

i think that if you have had this ideation for a while without any treatment helping you then it can be rational. It is hard to differentiate though between the two, it would depend on each individual person. But you would agree that someone wanting to jump out of the window while under psychosis from drugs is probably not doing it in their right state of mind right?

Yeah, I get angry at the preventative measures and rationale behind them but in my ideal world there would of-course be some element of prevention.

I think about this a fair bit honestly, trying to workout the morality of other posters here.

It's sad to see minors commit suicide, perhaps people should wait until they've got a fully formed brain and have given adult life a go.

You'd hope people would make such decisions sober too.

I'd love it if there were ways to mitigate pain and trauma for others but that might be asking for too much, especially when up against pro-life societies who don't want to normalise suicide at all.

Many here, myself included, have tried dozens of treatments for various problems, I'm not sure how much of that we should be subjected to before we're finally allowed to be considered rational.

What do you reckon the criteria should be?

 

[DreamEnd]

Yeah, I get angry at the preventative measures and rationale behind them but in my ideal world there would of-course be some element of prevention.

I think about this a fair bit honestly, trying to workout the morality of other posters here.

It's sad to see minors commit suicide, perhaps people should wait until they've got a fully formed brain and have given adult life a go.

You'd hope people would make such decisions sober too.

I'd love it if there were ways to mitigate pain and trauma for others but that might be asking for too much, especially when up against pro-life societies who don't want to normalise suicide at all.

Many here, myself included, have tried dozens of treatments for various problems, I'm not sure how much of that we should be subjected to before we're finally allowed to be considered rational.

What do you reckon the criteria should be?

I think that if the person shows a clear intent to ctb over a certain period of time it is a good indicator. If someone who just broke up wanted to ctb I wouldn't consider it rational. Now if that person absolutely isn't able to recover from such a break up as would be evident by them asking for help, getting help and yet they are still unable to recover. Then I would understand. But idk if my stance is controversial or not I just think suicide is a serious issue. Some people have called me selective pro choicer but I think that deep down everyone is that way. Every single person here has standards on what constitutes an impulsive suicide or rational suicide. Allowing any person to commit suicide under any effect of mind to me just seems cruel but idk

 

[4g1vvvven]

I think that if the person shows a clear intent to ctb over a certain period of time it is a good indicator. If someone who just broke up wanted to ctb I wouldn't consider it rational. Now if that person absolutely isn't able to recover from such a break up as would be evident by them asking for help, getting help and yet they are still unable to recover. Then I would understand. But idk if my stance is controversial or not I just think suicide is a serious issue. Some people have called me selective pro choicer but I think that deep down everyone is that way. Every single person here has standards on what constitutes an impulsive suicide or rational suicide. Allowing any person to commit suicide under any effect of mind to me just seems cruel but idk

I can appreciate that, I appreciate this exchange, I think we're all welcome to our opinions and I see what you're saying, it certainly is a big decision.

Seems cruel and unusual punishment to force an individual to an experience they don't want, didn't consent to, and frankly don't deserve even if that experience is something as encompassing as life.

 

[DreamEnd]

I can appreciate that, I appreciate this exchange, I think we're all welcome to our opinions and I see what you're saying, it certainly is a big decision.

Seems cruel and unusual punishment to force an individual to an experience they don't want, didn't consent to, and frankly don't deserve even if that experience is something as encompassing as life.

I agree but the big question is this. Is it possible for an individual to overcome that obstacle and start enjoying life?There are obstacles that cant be overcome I agree and that individual who isnt able to will eventually consider suicide. But if we paint anyone struggling to overcome something as free to commit ctb I dont think we would go very far as a society. Thats why I think peaceful euthanasia should be available everywhere but it would have to have certain requirements

 

[SilentSadness]

I agree that suicide prevention causes so much suffering, some people just don't want to be here in a world of tragedy and apathetic people. Existence is such a burden and it's so horrible and unnecessary to keep someone trapped here. It's so degrading to have my suffering reduced to mental illness.

 

[Adûnâi]

Is it possible for an individual to overcome that obstacle and start enjoying life?

This is a lifecuck cope on the basis of your being afraid to be called out a pro-mortalist. It's like those racists constantly bleating about how they have Black friends. Such spineless centrist approaches are... why even bother?

Your hedonistic argument itself is only based on the notion that life is lived due to the pursuit of happiness - which is an incredibly American thing to say. A Confucian would say, "think of your parents!"; a Muslim would threaten you with Allah's hellfire; a Shinto would muse on the aesthetics of your death. And in the end, life is bondage - trying to rationalise it is cultural necessity, but ultimately useless and dishonest.

Incidentally, opposing suicide is only possible via bondage, and for long I have been asking myself whether self-delusion, self-bondage is possible.

 

[DreamEnd]

This is a lifecuck cope on the basis of your being afraid to be called out a pro-mortalist. It's like those racists constantly bleating about how they have Black friends. Such spineless centrist approaches are... why even bother?

Your hedonistic argument itself is only based on the notion that life is lived due to the pursuit of happiness - which is an incredibly American thing to say. A Confucian would say, "think of your parents!"; a Muslim would threaten you with Allah's hellfire; a Shinto would muse on the aesthetics of your death. And in the end, life is bondage - trying to rationalise it is cultural necessity, but ultimately useless and dishonest.

Incidentally, opposing suicide is only possible via bondage, and for long I have been asking myself whether self-delusion, self-bondage is possible.

Ok. Do you think anyone who wants to ctb should be allowed to? I know you have said before that you are pro mortalist in theory but do you realise life isn't bad for everybody and people can enjoy their lives still? Not all of them but some do.
Edit: I never said life is a pursuit of happiness. There can be meaning in life for someone without the desire to be happy. It's the meaning that makes people struggle and overcome things, not pursuit of happiness. But that is my opinion.

 

[Aim]

Lol whatever lady, all you vomit out is all just the same hate blaming and bull. Blaming others is not going to get you anywhere. Suicide is more about resolve and courage, then by getting stopped by other people.

 

[Adûnâi]

I know you have said before that you are pro mortalist in theory but do you realise life isn't bad for everybody and people can enjoy their lives still? Not all of them but some do.

Most seem to enjoy life, even when they whine they're supposedly not. It's just that I wouldn't necessarily keep them alive because I have a delusion they might enjoy it at some point. Although I wouldn't mind if they shared that delusion themselves.

Lol whatever lady, all you vomit out is all just the same hate blaming and bull. Blaming others is not going to get you anywhere. Suicide is more about resolve and courage, then by getting stopped by other people.

Conquering this forum is a blow to FuneralCry already, what's the point being rude about it to rub the salt?

 

[DreamEnd]

Most seem to enjoy life, even when they whine they're supposedly not. It's just that I wouldn't necessarily keep them alive because I have a delusion they might enjoy it at some point. Although I wouldn't mind if they shared that delusion themselves.


Conquering this forum is a blow to FuneralCry already, what's the point being rude about it to rub the salt?

But do you understand that there is a difference between someone wanting to ctb impulsively immediately after breaking up with someone and someone who wants to ctb because of their untreatable long lasting mental illness? Like how is it delusion to think the first example may get over it and live a happy life and the second example won't? How is it "lifecuck cope" to think some people can recover from ideation and some won't?

 

[Aim]

Most seem to enjoy life, even when they whine they're supposedly not. It's just that I wouldn't necessarily keep them alive because I have a delusion they might enjoy it at some point. Although I wouldn't mind if they shared that delusion themselves.


Conquering this forum is a blow to FuneralCry already, what's the point being rude about it to rub the salt?

First. I'm not having this discussion with you. Second. I'm not having this discussion with you!;)

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Suicide is more about resolve and courage, then by getting stopped by other people.

This just goes to show just how much people are brainwashed. The fact is that a peaceful method on earth exists (nembutal) and, with the knowledge that we have, even more peaceful methods could be developed but we can't access any of it due to people restricting these methods. If people didn't restrict these peaceful methods to begin with, there wouldn't even be an argument happening here and things like resolve and courage wouldn't matter. The only reason why courage is needed is because people have made it that way by making the more peaceful methods inaccessible

 

[DreamEnd]

This just goes to show just how much people are brainwashed. The fact is that a peaceful method on earth exists (nembutal) and, with the knowledge that we have, even more peaceful methods could be developed but we can't access any of it due to people restricting these methods. If people didn't restrict these peaceful methods to begin with, there wouldn't even be an argument happening here and things like resolve and courage wouldn't matter. The only reason why courage is needed is because people have made it that way by making the more peaceful methods inaccessible

if everyone had an access to an easy and peaceful method we would clearly see an uptick in unnecessary or impulsive suicides happening. If nembutal was sold over the counter we would have much more impulsive and spontaneous suicides than we have now. I am not saying it wouldn't be good for people with terminal mental or physical illnesses, it would be great for them. But for others it would just be unnecessary. In a moral and just society, we would have peaceful methods available but of course there would be restrictions on who can get them. Like, we wouldnt sell them to children, for instance. Unfortunately, our society has a pro life focus, painting all life as sacred and necessary, and thus restricting people in need from access to peaceful methods. I think a much more better approach is finding a middle ground, but that is very hard to do and will take many years

 

[TheSpookyNameGuy]

I can only dream of the day mass suicides happen if these methods were "Allowed" for everyone.

I'd probably wait for a while to see the stats come in and bask in it, only in an alternate universe sadly

 

[Aim]

This just goes to show just how much people are brainwashed. The fact is that a peaceful method on earth exists (nembutal) and, with the knowledge that we have, even more peaceful methods could be developed but we can't access any of it due to people restricting these methods. If people didn't restrict these peaceful methods to begin with, there wouldn't even be an argument happening here and things like resolve and courage wouldn't matter. The only reason why courage is needed is because people have made it that way by making the more peaceful methods inaccessible

If we hope for wishful thinking, instead of the reality of the case,. Sure It would be awesome if N was easy to get. BUT thats not the case, now is it. In my opinion wishful thinking and then hating the society for putting on restrictions so that people don't just impulsively go and wack themself. Is just a fucking waist of time, energy and extremely ignorant. But whatever,. This to actually is just a waist of time and energy! Goodbye!

Besides If you want to go and try and change the world. Write this to the people in the higher positions. Maybe they can help you.

 

[thetruetato]

No matter what suicide prevention will always be extreme cruelty, it's cruelty to want to enslave people in this undesirable existence and stop them finding true peace and freedom from all suffering. Suicide prevention is so cruel and harmful to me as no matter what existence itself will always be the true problem rather than the very valid wish to be free from it, wanting to die is all that makes sense to me which is why I'm disgusted by those delusional pro-life people who want to make it so others suffer for as long as possible.

The option to die in peace should be there at all times especially as existence is so futile and hellish with no limit as to how much one can suffer, no matter what I'd always prefer to not exist, any kind of suicide prevention is just prolonging suffering as after all the more time spent trapped here in this existence just means more opportunities to suffer.

But in general it's just extreme cruelty how suicide is seen as something to prevent rather than support and accept as a very valid personal choice. Nobody consented to this dreadful and meaningless existence so people should simply be able to cease existing when they want to and it's not other people's place to interfere with that. In my case I see suicide as very rational to prevent all future unnecessary suffering which is why the whole idea of suicide prevention is so incredibly delusional to me in the first place.

Not all "suicide prevention" is, but I do agree that locking people up somewhere until they agree not to kill themselves is unethical and immoral. Things like hotlines and chat rooms (assuming they don't lead to the use of force to stop people), are good for people to have someone to talk to if they want to. The keyword is "if", yet today's society does not care about the freedom of choice over whether one wants to continue living or not. Another aspect other than force and involuntary commitment somewhere that I consider wrong is the heavy censorship of everything suicide related in media. This partially includes the restriction of access to methods of suicide, however because a large amount of them could just as easily be used to kill someone who does not want to die, access to them could be regulated rather than completely restricted. In a better world, if someone wanted to die, they could just make arrangements to be euthanized and that would be it.

 

[MrBigSad]

No matter what suicide prevention will always be extreme cruelty, it's cruelty to want to enslave people in this undesirable existence and stop them finding true peace and freedom from all suffering. Suicide prevention is so cruel and harmful to me as no matter what existence itself will always be the true problem rather than the very valid wish to be free from it, wanting to die is all that makes sense to me which is why I'm disgusted by those delusional pro-life people who want to make it so others suffer for as long as possible.

The option to die in peace should be there at all times especially as existence is so futile and hellish with no limit as to how much one can suffer, no matter what I'd always prefer to not exist, any kind of suicide prevention is just prolonging suffering as after all the more time spent trapped here in this existence just means more opportunities to suffer.

But in general it's just extreme cruelty how suicide is seen as something to prevent rather than support and accept as a very valid personal choice. Nobody consented to this dreadful and meaningless existence so people should simply be able to cease existing when they want to and it's not other people's place to interfere with that. In my case I see suicide as very rational to prevent all future unnecessary suffering which is why the whole idea of suicide prevention is so incredibly delusional to me in the first place.

Dying is a birth given right, we have no obligation to be here. And I'm sick of people saying that we have some sort of obligation to be here. I never wanted life, the birthgivers never wanted me to have life. And some people are born with severe disabilities too. And some people choose not to live. Everyone talks about life being your choice but when you decide to leave it you're awful.

Not pro life but I say stick around for the memes.

 

[heliophobic]

I can only dream of the day mass suicides happen if these methods were "Allowed" for everyone.

I'd probably wait for a while to see the stats come in and bask in it, only in an alternate universe sadly

You think they don't happen? Where were you when the members of Heaven's Gate "reached the next level"? Hell, people have been committing mass suicides since at least 206 BC.

 

[TheSpookyNameGuy]

You think they don't happen? Where were you when the members of Heaven's Gate "reached the next level"? Hell, people have been committing mass suicides since at least 206 BC.

Nah i mean something bigger, way way bigger

 

[Aim]

Nah i mean something bigger, way way bigger

Like what?

 

[Adûnâi]

But do you understand that there is a difference between someone wanting to ctb impulsively immediately after breaking up with someone and someone who wants to ctb because of their untreatable long lasting mental illness? Like how is it delusion to think the first example may get over it and live a happy life and the second example won't?

I don't know what mental illness is, whereas I am familiar with the notion of heroic suicide. See how it can be turned out? Stop assuming your current year attitudes to be universal. Therefore, I don't see the point in discriminating and denying humans their choice in some cases while not in others. That's precisely the status quo currently - old rich boomers can kill themselves in Switzerland, but poor working-class Americans cannot.

First. I'm not having this discussion with you. Second. I'm not having this discussion with you!;)

This is a perfect caricature of the famed passive-aggressive style, bravo.

Like, we wouldnt sell them to children, for instance. Unfortunately, our society has a pro life focus, painting all life as sacred and necessary, and thus restricting people in need from access to peaceful methods.

Why would you deny children the right to suicide? Because you'd be sad if their parents were denied the pleasure of raping them for another decade? LMAO

 

[Aim]

Idk what your call is with this, however your narrative on most of these comments seems just nothing less then dangerously disturbing. However, I wish you good luck, your ignored and goodbye.

 

[Adûnâi]

Idk what your call is with this, however your narrative on most of these comments seems just nothing less then dangerously disturbing.

This entire website would be deemed "disturbing" by any normie imaginable, so what's the point self-censoring?

However, I wish you good luck, your ignored and goodbye.

...Wait, I forgot normies do this, the very concept of ignoring is so incomprehensible to me... There goes the exchange of ideas!

 

[DreamEnd]

I don't know what mental illness is, whereas I am familiar with the notion of heroic suicide. See how it can be turned out? Stop assuming your current year attitudes to be universal. Therefore, I don't see the point in discriminating and denying humans their choice in some cases while not in others. That's precisely the status quo currently - old rich boomers can kill themselves in Switzerland, but poor working-class Americans cannot.

This is a perfect caricature of the famed passive-aggressive style, bravo.


Why would you deny children the right to suicide? Because you'd be sad if their parents were denied the pleasure of raping them for another decade? LMAO

Holy shit you are actually insanely pro mortalist. So again, to repeat my question. If someone under psychosis or mania or under the influence of drugs decides to jump out of the window you would let them? Just answer this one question

No one said anything about denying people their right of choice. All I said was there have to be precautions and methods in place so that impulsive suicide doesn't happen. Why do you go from one extreme to the other? Why can't you hope for a more middle ground euthanasia that's available for everyone who has shown a persistent trend in wanting to ctb, without it just being impulsive suicide or under the effect of drugs. Your stances are illogical and cruel

Who said anything about raping children? You have a very weird imagination holy shit. If a child came to you and said they want to ctb would you automatically assume they are getting raped? What? And I wasn't asking about this specific situation that you made up. What I'm asking was. If a child came to you and told you this would you automatically let them? Without trying to get them help? If you are then you are just a cruel human being and your self identification as an incel completely reinforces the beliefs people have about "inceldom" this is just absolutely insane, that is, allowing anyone under any circumstances to commit ctb just because they want it. Holy fucking shit. People have called your narrative here disturbing. Not only me. Clue in a bit. Okay?

 

[Adûnâi]

If someone under psychosis or mania or under the influence of drugs decides to jump out of the window you would let them? Just answer this one question

Drugs? Should of course be taken responsibly, just listen to Joe Rogan. Whereas mental issues? People use those terms now complacently, rendering it useless. Would you deny human rights to folks with IQs lower than 100, too? They might be considered disabled by some metrics!

All I said was there have to be precautions and methods in place so that impulsive suicide doesn't happen.

Would premediated suicide count as impulsive if a person kills himself upon reaching a certain state? For example, learning that the Russians are 500m away from the Bunker?

Who said anything about raping children? You have a very weird imagination holy shit. If a child came to you and said they want to ctb would you automatically assume they are getting raped?

If a child wants to die, chances are it's getting raped, what else can there be? Ah, also getting beaten, starved and imprisoned, but that's par for the course.

And if I were to go further (I vaguely expect it to sound offensive), I might say that suicidal children ought to be killed off because it's easier for them to leave this world behind, having far less live experience to anchor them.

Without trying to get them help? If you are then you are just a cruel human being and your self identification as an incel completely reinforces the beliefs people have about "inceldom" this is just absolutely insane, that is, allowing anyone under any circumstances to commit ctb just because they want it. Holy fucking shit.

No single moniker designates my views. Incels are actually incredibly traditional and pro-life, normie-like. I'm merely trying to get on @FuneralCry's side, because if not me, then who? I have to balance my yearning for immortality with some unironic pro-mortalism, after all.

How is it cruel to kill a willing child if 90% of normies beat and torture and shout and imprison their kids, with nobody batting an eyelid? LMAO kek