Discussion Suicide Is not Selfish

[Drifty]

Hey guys,

Am i the only one who believe Suicide isn't selfish?

You are your own person, who controls your own actions. If you're not happy in your life which you didn't choose to be put into, that is not selfish if you want to leave your life. If it is selfish to ctb, isn't it selfish for some to command you to stay alive?

Don't get me wrong, I understand that ctb hurts other people's feelings, but we are hurting too, and if you have tried everything to fix that, I would say you're entitled to ctb.

I personally tell myself that I am selfish to ctb, but only for the benefit of others. I hate hurting people, and I know my girlfriend needs me and my family. That's why I am still here.

But overall, suicide is not selfish. if you want to end your own, that is not selfish to me.

 

[Fragile]

well, i don't think that suicide is inherently selfish, but as with all things in life, this is a case by case question.

i think that both sides are equally as selfish actually. us for wanting to escape from our pain even if it hurts others, and the others for wanting us to stay and not hurt them even if it means that we have to suffer even longer.

but at the end of the day, both sides are victims in this situation, so unless you have absolutely no one that actually cares for you and manage to somehow not leave a body for others to find, you are taking a decision that will hurt some people. ultimately it is your body and you didn't ask for any of this, but it's human nature to care and be terribly hurt by the passing of others, i truly wish that there was other way for me to find peace and not hurt the people that care for me.

 

[l0sing]

I think people say it's selfish because they're the one who are able to think clearer for you and know how missed you'll be.

 

[Drifty]

well, i don't think that suicide is inherently selfish, but as with all things in life, this is a case by case question.

i think that both sides are equally as selfish actually. us for wanting to escape from our pain even if it hurts others, and the others for wanting us to stay and not hurt them even if it means that we have to suffer even longer.

but at the end of the day, both sides are victims in this situation, so unless you have absolutely no one that actually cares for you and manage to somehow not leave a body for others to find, you are taking a decision that will hurt some people. ultimately it is your body and you didn't ask for any of this, but it's human nature to care and be terribly hurt by the passing of others, i truly wish that there was other way for me to find peace and not hurt the people that care for me.

i understand that completely, you have enlightened me on how it can be perceived both ways, and you're completely correct. I know i will never ctb because i love my girlfriend and my family. thank you for your opinion!

 

[Heart of Ice]

I used to think suicide was selfish, but my philosophy was that everyone is selfish deep down, so it didn't matter.

More recently I've began to think that suicide is avoiding suffering and that there is nothing particularly selfish about that.

So I don't really know if I would consider suicide selfish or not.

 

[kamakura]

The only selfishness is if it hurts your loved ones left behind. Other than that, it is just you making decisions for your own life, nothing selfish or altruistic, just neutral on the world.

 

[Cutepoison]

I think it's absolutely not selfish. As for the pain it'll cause others - yes, that'll happen but to me, it's more selfish of those around you to ask you to stay because of them. That's very selfish. They want to avoid the pain, yet choose to ignore the every day suffering of the suicidal person.

 

[Oyoy]

Reproducing is selfish.

 

[k75]

I've given it a lot of thought. I think everyone is selfish, maybe. They ignore our suffering in order to try and keep us, but we also have to ignore their (future) suffering in order to leave them.

 

[kamakura]

I agree. Everyone is selfish, small and big. Especially when it comes to own life and self-consciousness, being a bit selfish is okay. But I think if you have kids and other dependents, then you should really think about their lives after your gone

 

[Dripping]

Reproducing is selfish.

Absolutely right. Suicide is not selfish at all, the forum is full of people regretting thei'r choice and thinking about parents instead of thinking about thei'r wishes. Suicide is going out with dignity when you discover you don't fit this world.

 

[Oyoy]

Absolutely right. Suicide is not selfish at all, the forum is full of people regretting thei'r choice and thinking about parents instead of thinking about thei'r wishes. Suicide is going out with dignity when you discover you don't fit this world.

We are contagions

 

[waterbottleman]

I think people say it's selfish because they're the one who are able to think clearer for you and know how missed you'll be.

That may be true in some cases, but in other cases I don't think that is true.

As sad as it is to say, some people in this world really won't be missed when they ctb even though they're good well intentioned people and I'm an individual in this group.

I've never really been liked by people very much, no one loves me, no one cares about me. No one even really notices that I exist. No friends, no girlfriend in 12 years.

My feelings of being unliked, undesired, unwanted, and unnoticed don't merely stem from a false/subjective perception due to depression or low self esteem. It is an empirical reality for me. My feelings come from an objective look on myself and the reality of how people perceive me, or more accurately I should say dont perceive me since I'm pretty much a living ghost.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

If suicidal ideation is seen as part of a mental illness, then how can it be selfish? Surely a mental illness is one to be spoken of and talked about, yet when suicide is seen as part of that, yet is also seen as selfish, why would we speak of it?
This made so much more sense in my head! Give me a rum or 4 and it will make sense then

 

[Sensei]

I have to be honest and say that I think it's selfish to commit suicide if you have children. You have decided to get children, your children had no say when they were brought into this world, they are emotionally and economically dependent on you, and so on. One can argue that your decision to get children was the most important one in your life and you can't withdraw that decision.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

I have to be honest and say that I think it's selfish to commit suicide if you have children. You have decided to get children, your children had no say when they were brought into this world, they are emotionally and economically dependent on you, and so on. One can argue that your decision to get children was the most important one in your life and you can't withdraw that decision.

and that is why I know I am a selfish POS! You don't know peoples circumstances, so you in a way have no right to judge what a parent may or may not chose, but I also respect your right to your own opinion

 

[Sensei]

and that is why I know I am a selfish POS! You don't know peoples circumstances, so you in a way have no right to judge what a parent may or may not chose, but I also respect your right to your own opinion

We can't get past the fact that it's an active decision to bring a child into this world and that it can't be taken lightly. However, I should have mentioned that I think that there are a few exceptions. Most notably, a parent who is terminally ill can save both themselves and their children much suffering by ending their lives prematurely, and their children will most probably understand and accept their decision.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

We can't get past the fact that it's an active decision to bring a child into this world and that it can't be taken lightly. However, I should have mentioned that I think that there are a few exceptions. Most notably, a parent who is terminally ill can save both themselves and their children much suffering by ending their lives prematurely, and their children will most probably understand and accept their decision.

When I had my children I was in a stable place, I did not ask for what has happened to me to bring me to this point, a point were my children no longer have emotional stability from me, I posted about this the other day, its a common thing i notice on this forum, if you are a parent you are either selfish, or a dick for bringing a unwanted life (as in the child apparently not wanting to be born) into this world in the first place.
No bringing a child into this world is a choice, mental illness and how it takes you over and drives you into a world of hell is NOT a choice though, us in this situation deal with it in the best way we can and know how. Unless you know a persons circumstance I feel calling a parent selfish is wrong on every level. I am not saying they aren't, I am saying this based on a observation with no knowledge of a persons real life situation

 

[ForensicallyAware]

I wish there was a way for shiny happys to feel what we feel, just for an hour or two
I am 100% certain if one of them could experience what I feel every day their only response would be 'I'd have killed myself years ago if I had your life / mindset'

 

[Banquo501]

I feel damned selfish for even considering it. The only thing keeping me from doing it right now is the state it will leave my family in.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

Putting an end to our suffering is not selfishness. It's an act of self-deliverance. I know we consider the pain we would cause on others but at the time of attempting the our pain is stronger than love we have for our beloved ones.

 

[Sensei]

When I had my children I was in a stable place, I did not ask for what has happened to me to bring me to this point, a point were my children no longer have emotional stability from me, I posted about this the other day, its a common thing i notice on this forum, if you are a parent you are either selfish, or a dick for bringing a unwanted life (as in the child apparently not wanting to be born) into this world in the first place.
No bringing a child into this world is a choice, mental illness and how it takes you over and drives you into a world of hell is NOT a choice though, us in this situation deal with it in the best way we can and know how. Unless you know a persons circumstance I feel calling a parent selfish is wrong on every level. I am not saying they aren't, I am saying this based on a observation with no knowledge of a persons real life situation

First of all, I should point out that I'm not an anti-natalist, although I can understand their point of view. Some people are closer to animals than gods and have an instinctive need to reproduce and that's just how mankind is, like it or not. I still maintain that you have to stand by your decision if you bring a child into this world. Whatever hardships you may have to face, you have to fight for the sake of your children. You will scar them. The mother of a friend of mine committed suicide due to mental illness, and she's still deeply tormented by her mother's decision to die and leave her behind 30 years later. In the end, it's your decision and no one here can stop you, but I suggest you think it through f**king thoroughly first.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

First of all, I should point out that I'm not an anti-natalist, although I can understand their point of view. Some people are closer to animals than gods and have an instinctive need to reproduce and that's just how mankind is, like it or not. I still maintain that you have to stand by your decision if you bring a child into this world. Whatever hardships you may have to face, you have to fight for the sake of your children. You will scar them. The mother of a friend of mine committed suicide due to mental illness, and she's still deeply tormented by her mother's decision to die and leave her behind 30 years later. In the end, it's your decision and no one here can stop you, but I suggest you think it through f**king thoroughly first.

trust me I have enough time to think, I don't wish to speak publicly more about this for various reasons, happy to move the debate into PM though!

 

[Iloveyouall]

I've given it a lot of thought. I think everyone is selfish, maybe. They ignore our suffering in order to try and keep us, but we also have to ignore their (future) suffering in order to leave them.

I get what you mean but sometimes maybe it's more like they feel powerless in front of your suffering rather than simply ignoring it. I guess it depends on the circumstances and the people.

I feel damned selfish for even considering it. The only thing keeping me from doing it right now is the state it will leave my family in.

At least you still feel love and that's strong.

 

[k75]

@Iloveyouall It was a hard thought for 5am me to articulate, to be honest. I think ignore was maybe the wrong word entirely.

I'm very fortunate in my own experience to have support and people who understand as much as they can how I struggle. Many people don't. But I know despite that, they beg and make me promise to take care of myself and live for them, while I have urges to do the exact opposite, knowing how much it will devastate everyone.

It's all selfish in a way, but none of it is malicious.

 

[Jean Améry]

If it's done for reasons that solely benefit the person of course it is selfish but so what? People do things that solely further their own benefit all the time and that's considered perfectly normal.

To equate selfishness with morally wrong is preposterous, especially in this highly individualistic and self-serving society of greed and egomania in which upsetting the global climate which will cause untold suffering and death soley for the benefit of the rich is considered perfectly acceptable.

It's strange that an antiquated, collectivistic morality (group above the individual) still dominates the topic of suicide while in about any other activity or human endavour it would be considered too ridiculous to even ponder. Imagine trying to sell this: "Making money solely for yourself is so selfish/wrong: you really ought to work for free or at least share your money freely with others'".

What would be the respons you think? Yet suicide is selfish and therefore wrong while in nearly all cases grave, unremitting suffering lies at the heart of the decision. Anyone who doesn't see that and empathizes with that is either a complete moron or a narcissistic douchebag.

 

[Iloveyouall]

@Iloveyouall It was a hard thought for 5am me to articulate, to be honest. I think ignore was maybe the wrong word entirely.

I'm very fortunate in my own experience to have support and people who understand as much as they can how I struggle. Many people don't. But I know despite that, they beg and make me promise to take care of myself and live for them, while I have urges to do the exact opposite, knowing how much it will devastate everyone.

It's all selfish in a way, but none of it is malicious.

It's your choice anyway, I understand the selfish feeling and thoughts but it feels like a blame or a bad thing. I'm not sure it's helping considering it like that. You have to do what you have to do. I'm not sure how to word it but I don't think selfishness should actually be considered.

 

[Sensei]

trust me I have enough time to think, I don't wish to speak publicly more about this for various reasons, happy to move the debate into PM though!

Well, you don't need to defend yourself or your actions, at lest not to me. I just stated my opinion and it wasn't directed toward you specifically. You added a personal dimension, and that's fine, but that was your choice, not mine.

 

[Ghost2211]

In my case it is. I have children, and at least one of them was actually planned. I made a commitment in life when I brought them into this world, and I do owe them a mother. It would be selfless to actually be able to stand strong and keep going and be the mom they need and deserve, but that is in an ideal world. It is selfish to kill one self when there are dependents, but it is selfishness without intention.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I agree. That's the google definition of a selfish act:

1. (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

And this is from another website:

1. concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

2. arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others

The keyword here is: personal advantage or profit. I don't think you could ever make the case that suicide results in a personal advantage or profit. Even pleasure doesn't apply in that case. Suicide is about escaping pain and strugge and I would say it falls under the category of self-care, as paradox as it sounds. Like, it's kinda like saying that drinking water is selfish because you're thirsty. Or eating because you're hungry. It's a human instinct, in my opinion - and a valid response to certain situations. If you're in pain and there is no way to treat that pain, what do you do? Keep suffering for the rest of your life? No, of course not. You end the pain, in the most logical way. It's definitely an act of self-care.

I mean, even if it was selfish - who cares? There are many socially accepted norms that are considered selfish. Our whole society is built on selfishness. What do you think capitalism comes down to? Personal advantage and profit. Funny, right? So maybe we should ask those people that accuse us of being selfish if they show the same kind of activism when it comes to the downsides of capitalism. Of course they don't.