Suicide hotlines and other stupid ideas

[Oblivion]

I just fucking hate the concept of suicide hotlines, one time i wanted to see what are they about, they basically are parrots saying " i understand" "it must be hard" "i can't imagine what you're going through" ans that's it, they basically go along with anything you say, and it's fake, you know it's fucking fake and it feels fake, they're just doing their fucking job.

In a perfect world a suicide hotlines would be a number you call, they ask if you are sure you want to die, and send you an assasin to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

Yeah I mean bless these guys working hotlines but they really are clueless most of the time.

 

[Chinaski]

Every time l see a suicide hotline plugged l remind myself that Ted fucking Bundy was a hotline operator at the time he commenced his killing spree.

 

[D&D]

I just fucking hate the concept of suicide hotlines, one time i wanted to see what are they about, they basically are parrots saying " i understand" "it must be hard" "i can't imagine what you're going through" ans that's it, they basically go along with anything you say, and it's fake, you know it's fucking fake and it feels fake, they're just doing their fucking job.

In a perfect world a suicide hotlines would be a number you call, they ask if you are sure you want to die, and send you an assasin to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

Neither of the two extremes is helpful; pre-made, repetitive, impersonal phrases poorly trained and either unpaid or poorly paid operators are parroting only serve to infuriate further, skilled, willing and able assassins' are not only hard to come but dreadfully expensive too.

As legendary Ned Kelly said while they were fixing noose around his neck; 'Such is life.'

 

[Auto Immunity After]

Suicide hotlines save countless lives every year in every country especially for teens. I am shocked that although you might not personally call one yourself that you would outwardly shit on a volunteer system which if,even saved 1 life, would be worth all the countless hours the unpaid staff tirelessly work to help total strangers.

 

[Chinaski]

Suicide hotlines save countless lives every year in every country especially for teens. I am shocked that although you might not personally call one yourself that you would outwardly shit on a volunteer system which if,even saved 1 life, would be worth all the countless hours the unpaid staff tirelessly work to help total strangers.

On a fundamental level l agree, there are various ways to address suicidality that l find icky but have benefitted others. My main gripe with these hotlines is how they are propelled as a panacea, l can personally understand perfectly well why being told to call a stranger to hear them utilise their active listening skills as a single broad-stroke remedy is offensive to many. I'm sure many operators are good people doing good things but the reality is many folk needed listening to long before that stage and for them it's often way too late to be told to simply ring a number and chat to a stranger and expect it to be much use.

 

[orange]

I've never called a suicide hotline. What are you even supposed to say? How could they help you? Are you just supposed to talk to them like free emergency therapists but without the qualifications or what

 

[Auto Immunity After]

On a fundamental level l agree, there are various ways to address suicidality that l find icky but have benefitted others. My main gripe with these hotlines is how they are propelled as a panacea, l can personally understand perfectly well why being told to call a stranger to hear them utilise their active listening skills as a single broad-stroke remedy is offensive to many. I'm sure many operators are good people doing good things but the reality is many folk needed listening to long before that stage and for them it's often way too late to be told to simply ring a number and chat to a stranger and expect it to be much use.

Now take everything you just said and apply it to a 12 year old

 

[Judah]

I just fucking hate the concept of suicide hotlines

In my case I felt rather some discomfort

In a perfect world a suicide hotlines would be a number you call, they ask if you are sure you want to die, and send you an assasin to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

Or that they accompany you with their words until the last moment, I would appreciate something like this

 

[Chinaski]

Now take everything you just said and apply it to a 12 year old

That's fine if we're talking exclusively about what helps 12 year olds, who often don't have the acquired cynicism which often comes from so many negative experiences of talking but not being listened to by those who are supposed to help. What we're actually discussing is a universal sticking plaster of obviously limited scope which is applied broadly to literally everyone entertaining suicidal ideation.

 

[D&D]

On a fundamental level l agree, there are various ways to address suicidality that l find icky but have benefitted others. My main gripe with these hotlines is how they are propelled as a panacea, l can personally understand perfectly well why being told to call a stranger to hear them utilise their active listening skills as a single broad-stroke remedy is offensive to many. I'm sure many operators are good people doing good things but the reality is many folk needed listening to long before that stage and for them it's often way too late to be told to simply ring a number and chat to a stranger and expect it to be much use.

This.

The problem is not the volunteers, they are doing what they could with they have, the real problem is that they are all there is and in many countries not even that.

 

[Auto Immunity After]

That's fine if we're talking exclusively about what helps 12 year olds, who often don't have the acquired cynicism which often comes from so many negative experiences of talking but not being listened to by those who are supposed to help. What we're actually discussing is a universal sticking plaster of obviously limited scope which is applied broadly to literally everyone entertaining suicidal ideation.

I am talking about a system that helps and support to any single human life on this planet child or otherwise. It's clearly not for everyone but its free and it does save lives so why can't we all applaud the efforts of countless volunteers even if you personaly find no value in it for yourself? I have read many of your posts and I agree with you 95% of the time. Your responses are well thought out and Grammarly is your friend but with all the Covid and depressing circumstances in many of our lives, shouldn't we at least give a hand to those who are doing good things for the right resons?
I personally want to thank anyone who reads this who has themselves or knows someone who has volunteered for any organization in an attempt to selflessly help others Thank You for everything you do and your efforts are recognized and appreciated by all of us.

 

[Crazy4u]

There are many incorrect assumptions about the suicidal people. Examples:

- Suicidal people don't want to die. They want help and/or attention. They want someone to listen to them
- Suicidal feeling is a temporary issue. They will feel better if we tell them: we understand, it must be hard, ...etc
- Suicidal people won't attempt if they don't have a plan or a tool (e.g. gun)
- Suicidal people won't talk/call if they truly wanted to kill themselves

That's why they don't do much to help. In a perfect world, the suicidal hotlines would ask for the reason and try to help based on the reason itself. There are common reasons to CTB:

- Mental illness
- Financial Crisis
- Loss of loved ones
- Act of violence (e.g. sexual assault)
- In case of kids/teenagers: bullying, abusive parents, ..etc

Government is not very effective in addressing the above solutions but can improve if they think suicide is serious and must be prevented (hint: they don't)

 

[eternalpeace]

I think hotlines have their place, and I do think they help people. They've even helped me in the past. What I take issue with is the fact that they are promulgated as some sort of magic bullet to prevent any instance of suicide or suicidal suffering. People who have been suicidal over the long term would probably be better helped from long term counselling, or anything that might help with the types of issues that often make life intolerable: lack of food security/ housing/gainful employment, drug addiction, racism/discrimination... It's easier to set up suicide hotlines than it is to actually address any of these things, so maybe that's why no one seems to want to have the bigger conversation. :(

 

[Chinaski]

Tbf it's not just the suicide hotlines who should get a hammering on this, having considered other replies in his thread they probably do get an undue pasting compared to other areas of provision - my experience the professionals working within the NHS crisis team one time was so typically fucking dreadful l have kept everything to myself ever since.

 

[ItsMe-Hecked]

Tbf it's not just the suicide hotlines who should get a hammering on this, having considered other replies in his thread they probably do get an undue pasting compared to other areas of provision - my experience the professionals working within the NHS crisis team one time was so typically fucking dreadful l have kept everything to myself ever since.

Not just the hotlines. All of my therapists in the past have immediately sent me to a hospital if I even dared mention the forbidden word "suicide".

 

[little helpers]

That's fine if we're talking exclusively about what helps 12 year olds, who often don't have the acquired cynicism which often comes from so many negative experiences of talking but not being listened to by those who are supposed to help. What we're actually discussing is a universal sticking plaster of obviously limited scope which is applied broadly to literally everyone entertaining suicidal ideation.

^this. hence me ignoring the hotline number every time it pops up on my search (which it does frequently enough).

I just realized the other day that, yes, crying and screaming from abuse really can be overheard by neighbors. if just one person has bothered to tell 6 y/o me something like "I know what's going on, it's wrong for them to hurt you", I might not be the wreckage that I am today.

and you really cannot prevent suicide with someone's spur-of-the-moment efforts. this I'm talking about suicides in general. the existence of such a thing. it takes a lot to kill oneself. to reach this level of distress and determination often takes years, or sometimes more sudden, after an extreme event. real prevention is about making a life worth living. that's always long-term issues which has to come with long-term solutions. when help is still not too late. when the person can still take in help, still wants help. it requires continued efforts over time. with this person. and definitely, absolutely, with our society.

 

[Toonloon]

Now take everything you just said and apply it to a 12 year old

why is a 12 y.o calling a hotline instead of talking to their parents. I called in at 13, 14, 15 and hungup on. As an adult i think how shitty my parents are and every adult in my life as a kid was to have had me call a hotline instead of asking me "whats wrong?"

thats what i think when pro lifers cry when their "loved one" died by suicide. you failed to reach out and help but want to blame everyone else for their blinders.

At 12 y.o the child should in an ideal world get the help they need without having to call an emergency hotline. and many opertors dont know how to react to that caller. Just like many mental health care providers dont know how to really treat the minor cause the parents usually block the proper care. For numerous reasons: Taking to long, too much costs, not fast enough of change for them.

So what exactly is the point of your posts?

What is your personal experience?

And before you accuse me of being a incel loser male who hates kids I'm a woman who has worked the last 4 years with abused kids.
And now my own personal experience w/ hotlines. In the past 15 years of calling I only got 2 that were actually really good. The rest were shit parrots who went into a tailspin when I told them I was a sex worker. My specialty was to be tied to a ceiling and beaten like a human pinata for hundreds of dollars an hour.

When I called in such distress looking to be calmed down because a trick crossed my rules, cancelled on me hours before my hotel bill was due and I had no other way to pay and faced being on the streets, Many of the poorly trained "counselors" didn't know what o do with me, they just kept judging me for my lifestyle and kept insisting I was a sex slave being forced to work.

My case is an extreme one yes. But even when I got out of the sex biz for a few years and tried calling in I still got worthless parrroting comments.

Many were uncomfortable when I talked about being brutally raped and just pushed "local" resources on me. None were right. Lots were miles from me or were so outdated the centers no longer took psych clients.

I've never called a suicide hotline. What are you even supposed to say? How could they help you? Are you just supposed to talk to them like free emergency therapists but without the qualifications or what

Here in the states you first answer questions: Age, Genders, ethnicity, military status, ect for their funding purposes. Ask on a scale from what to what how serious are you about killing urself? Do you have a plan and way to go about ur plan. Than you just tell them how your feeling. Get some free counseling to try and calm down. They give you resources like free support groups, free to low costs psych counseling in your area.
Most are just poorly trained people, some are psych students looking for experinence in the field of counseling, very very few are actual mental health counselors. In extreme cases they patch through to a person with a Masters Degree in some kind of therapy.

 

[OnlyTheWind]

If I was in an Emo band, I would so use the thread title as an album name. Very cool.

 

[little helpers]

why is a 12 y.o calling a hotline instead of talking to their parents. I called in at 13, 14, 15 and hungup on. As an adult i think how shitty my parents are and every adult in my life as a kid was to have had me call a hotline instead of asking me "whats wrong?"

thats what i think when pro lifers cry when their "loved one" died by suicide. you failed to reach out and help but want to blame everyone else for their blinders.

At 12 y.o the child should in an ideal world get the help they need without having to call an emergency hotline. and many opertors dont know how to react to that caller. Just like many mental health care providers dont know how to really treat the minor cause the parents usually block the proper care. For numerous reasons: Taking to long, too much costs, not fast enough of change for them.

So what exactly is the point of your posts?

What is your personal experience?

And before you accuse me of being a incel loser male who hates kids I'm a woman who has worked the last 4 years with abused kids.
And now my own personal experience w/ hotlines. In the past 15 years of calling I only got 2 that were actually really good. The rest were shit parrots who went into a tailspin when I told them I was a sex worker. My specialty was to be tied to a ceiling and beaten like a human pinata for hundreds of dollars an hour.

When I called in such distress looking to be calmed down because a trick crossed my rules, cancelled on me hours before my hotel bill was due and I had no other way to pay and faced being on the streets, Many of the poorly trained "counselors" didn't know what o do with me, they just kept judging me for my lifestyle and kept insisting I was a sex slave being forced to work.

My case is an extreme one yes. But even when I got out of the sex biz for a few years and tried calling in I still got worthless parrroting comments.

Many were uncomfortable when I talked about being brutally raped and just pushed "local" resources on me. None were right. Lots were miles from me or were so outdated the centers no longer took psych clients.

I feel your pain. it's the sad truth that those most heavily discriminated are consequently the most suicidal, and when we text/call the hotlines it's the same atrocity being played to us once again. I can't help but think *that* is literally encouraging suicide. I think there is a point to be made here whether hotlines are encouraging.

and I totally agree with the point on caretakers. I understand parent(s) don't often have the level of education to do everything themselves (not that professionals do any better either), but what about compassion? IMO hotlines should be the last stop. one of referral rather than some "first-line treatment" shit. the first-line treatment is love. I hate to say this but I have to. it's the same thing when I got told by an ex-addict activist that needle exchanges is about love. it hit me hard.

 

[8AEM]

I'd be interested to read about the efficacy of suicide hotlines. The research probably exists somewhere, but I'm too tired to look for it.

 

[*Psyche*]

Before I begin, I'd like both of you to know that I've read many of your posts & often agree with them. I admire your points of view, but I'd like to clear up some misconceptions about suicide hotlines.
I have chronic major depressive disorder & have had issues with suicidal ideation & attempts since my pre-teens. I am now middle-aged. I've made no secret about the fact that I once worked at a suicide hotline. I did so after one of my best friends completed her suicide. This made me want to help others from having to go through becoming the wreck I'd been in the fallout of my friend's death by helping to save the lives of those in desperation. So, I'd like to address some misconceptions about the hotlines, at least in the US.

My main gripe with these hotlines is how they are propelled as a panacea, l can personally understand perfectly well why being told to call a stranger to hear them utilise their active listening skills as a single broad-stroke remedy is offensive to many. I'm sure many operators are good people doing good things but the reality is many folk needed listening to long before that stage and for them it's often way too late to be told to simply ring a number and chat to a stranger and expect it to be much use.

Calling a hotline is NOT meant to be a cure all by any means. Hotlines are there to diffuse situations when people are in imminent crisis & offer advice based on the tools provided to the volunteers. This might include suggestions such as how to obtain financial help, food assistance, counseling, find AA meetings, locate homeless shelters, soup kitchens or other shelters, nearby emergency rooms or crisis centers & a variety of other resources.

They are also there to listen; however, because of the volunteer shortage, that time cannot be unlimited. When I worked there, my shift was six hours long & I had one partner. Some nights, I was the only person working. My office covered half of the state (not a small state) with a local number & the national hotline (which could roll over from another US region if it wasn't answered on time).

I can tell you I was not a rule follower in the sense of limiting the time I spent with a caller if s/he was in a real crisis. I'd stay on the phone for as long as they needed me. Then, I tried to give the best advice I knew how.

Yes, a lot of volunteers are college students so they didn't have the life experience to draw from like I did. But I know I helped some people. I also know there were callers who were pissed off at me no matter how I tried to help them, but there's only so much a person can do in that situation. The hotline is only meant to be a backstop until actual help can be found.

I absolutely agree the system needs to be changed/fixed. However, some of those changes can't be implemented unless they have more funding & more volunteers (the people who answer calls are paid nothing). I don't think there should be a so-called "script" (there isn't really one). They are more like guidelines to prevent alienating callers, or offending them. The goal is to help the caller in some manner without having them hang up on you.

The volunteers should be trained better on how to deal with suicidal people. In all honesty, most are under qualified to deal with these situations & volunteers should be trained counselors at the very least. But that costs money, which they don't have, or is unattractive to most professionals.

There are many incorrect assumptions about the suicidal people. Examples:

- Suicidal people don't want to die. They want help and/or attention. They want someone to listen to them
- Suicidal feeling is a temporary issue. They will feel better if we tell them: we understand, it must be hard, ...etc
- Suicidal people won't attempt if they don't have a plan or a tool (e.g. gun)
- Suicidal people won't talk/call if they truly wanted to kill themselves

That's why they don't do much to help. In a perfect world, the suicidal hotlines would ask for the reason and try to help based on the reason itself. There are common reasons to CTB:

- Mental illness
- Financial Crisis
- Loss of loved ones
- Act of violence (e.g. sexual assault)
- In case of kids/teenagers: bullying, abusive parents, ..etc

Government is not very effective in addressing the above solutions but can improve if they think suicide is serious and must be prevented (hint: they don't)

Workers are trained to take every call as a serious crisis. The questions asked about plans & whether or not they currently have the means is to determine the lethality. Is the caller going to step away from the gun? If not, do emergency services need to be involved?

Like I mentioned earlier, the generic phrasing is more of a tactic to prevent alienation or offending a caller. It's not meant to sound dismissive, although I know it does. It's also a stalling tactic, as they are searching for names & numbers of resources that could help the caller.

People working the hotlines know that reason for suicidal ideation do matter & do utilize such information when it's made known to them (or they should be). They don't ask because it's not up to them to assume why the caller is feeling the way s/he does. The caller isn't required to reveal anything s/he does not wish to & asking about it could be considered an invasion of privacy.

Anyhow, I hope that helps some. If you have any more questions, I'll do my best to answer them. I can only do so based on my training & my experiences.

For those of you who have called & had bad experiences with the person you spoke with, I'm truly sorry if you didn't feel heard. I'm sorry if you didn't receive the help you needed or expected. They are there to try & help.

 

[FuneralCry]

I do not believe that talking fixes problems, calling a hotline would be a waste of time as it does not take away why you are suicidal in the first place. In this society, many people dismiss all suicidal people as always being irrational, but in fact wanting suicide can be perfectly rational in a life as horrible as this. Our right to die should be respected, it is cruel how we are expected to suffer for decades against our wishes.

 

[cleanchris]

I'm prank calling the suicide hotline before I Ctb. What a tax scam

 

[Ligottian]

Every time l see a suicide hotline plugged l remind myself that Ted fucking Bundy was a hotline operator at the time he commenced his killing spree.

I've read that too. He no doubt thought he was learning about human psychology, and thus honing his skills as a serial killer.

 

[Depressed Cat]

As poorly funded/staffed as they are, I think suicide hotlines do help some people who're about to CTB.

Let's say there is a bridge with a long drop that's unsurvivable. Not everyone who is about to jump from the bridge is in the same frame of mind. Someone may be a very determined jumper come what may, someone else may be wanting to die badly but scared of the drop, someone else may be in a hesitant frame of mind on whether he/she should attempt it, someone else may have just had a bad day and walked out to the bridge harbouring thoughts of jumping and so on.

Strategically posted suicide hotline numbers may help atleast half of those hypothetical jumpers.

So I do think they're not completely useless.

 

[Nightmare Painting]

Realistically it's only useful for people who are thinking about suicide for the very first time due to a solvable problem and aren't thinking things through. It's useless for people who have spent years and decades living in perpetual suffering with suicide being a constant in their lives. Pretty words don't do anything for people who are truly disadvantaged.

 

[idiotstillwantstodie]

I just fucking hate the concept of suicide hotlines, one time i wanted to see what are they about, they basically are parrots saying " i understand" "it must be hard" "i can't imagine what you're going through" ans that's it, they basically go along with anything you say, and it's fake, you know it's fucking fake and it feels fake, they're just doing their fucking job.

In a perfect world a suicide hotlines would be a number you call, they ask if you are sure you want to die, and send you an assasin to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

I just wish the guy on the other end would enthusiastically yell "DO IT! DO IT YOU FUCKING PUSSY!"

 

[Insomniac]

I uses to frequently call suicide holiness when I was in Colleges. They were all really shit and made me feel a thousand time more inadequate.

But one day, I was in my college dorm and there were student outside in the hallway having a shit chat and laughing etc. I felt so lonely and pathetic and my social anxiety and agoraphobia was all over the roof. So I call the holine and a guy answers me. After I explain to him the situation and how I want to take 50 clonazepam pills, he tells me:

" Okay, I understand. Since you can't deal with yourself now, I'm going to take commands of your mind for a while. I'll be your mind for the next few hours and you have to do everything I say, you can leave everything to me".

then he tells me to connect my earphones and put my phone in my pocket. He give me small commands like: "drink water" "stretch your legs" "walk outside your room" "go to the library" " go to the third floor" etc he basically made me walk around buildings for 20mins. he was giving me an exposure therapy while making run and stretch from time to time.

I'll never forget this person and the feeling of relief I felt throughout the whole session. I just felt so safe because I felt understood. Someone finally understood that I just really needed a break from having to decide for everything myself and simple made me do things instead of talking nonsense a d giving me shit advices.

but yes, 99% of the time, suicide hotlines just make you feel more inadequate than anything.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I saw a youtube lebanese talk show (Sardeh) about that suicide line and they sounded compassionate but very unreasonably optimistic that it could really make a difference in stopping suicides