Suicide and Near-Death Experiences

[Famous Last Words]

This video from a German NDE YouTube channel is absolutely fascinating and very reassuring to anyone with a belief in the afterlife.

The host interviews a medical doctor about whether there is a correlation between negative NDEs (which usually means going to hell) and suicide. The doctor states that "the internal emotional condition of a person during the moment of death has an influence on what will come next".

He gives an example of a woman who died after a cesarean birth and had a wonderful Near Death Experience. She was given a choice on the other side whether she wanted to stay there or return and she chose to return for the sake of her children. Then she had a very stressful time in the emergency ward and died again an hour later where she had a very negative NDE. She didn't become a bad person in the hour between the two NDEs - she was just in a different emotional state during the second one.

So it makes sense that if you CTB carrying a lot of despair or anger, as many do, then these emotions carry over into what comes next.

 

[Shu]

"the internal emotional condition of a person during the moment of death has an influence on what will come next". <--- I have felt this way for 10 years

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Who knows what drugs she was being given while there? I'm sure she was being given something. I know for a fact that if I eat certain foods, that it affects my dreams and types of dreams I have. And food is nothing but chemicals in its basic form. Evidently, this woman didn't end up in some "hell" somewhere. She was still here. The mind is a complicated thing. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not making an inference between NDEs and actual DEs, are you? I mean in so much that having a "pleasant feeling" before you die gets you to heaven, while having "negative feelings" at time of death takes you to hell. If I'm reading more into your post than what you mean, I apologize.

 

[fox_wannabe]

Maybe oblivion is on the menu after all.

 

[whatevs]

Maybe oblivion is on the menu after all.

Complete void? Never existed and never will. A transformation of the experience is what I expect. Even if there is a pause it will not be felt, as we don't feel sleeping or a coma.

 

[Famous Last Words]

To be honest, I'm not really asking for people who subscribe to a materalist paradigm to buy it. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Those who believe there's nothing afterwards and that consciousness dies with the brain are free to believe what they want. In fact, many atheist NDEs report going to empty void and just existing there for what feels like an eternity.

But for those who do believe in an afterlife and who are also suicidal, there's often a worry that going in this way won't be well received on the "other side". But if there is a correlation between negative NDEs and suicide, it's because there's a higher chance of being in a distraught emotional state and not the act itself.

but you're not making an inference between NDEs and actual DEs,

(copy and paste of something I wrote earlier:)

people often counter the NDE accounts with the argument that it's a NEAR death experience and you don't know what happens when you die properly. The term Near Death Experience was coined by Dr Raymond Moody who first brought the phenomenon into public consciousness with his book Life After Life in 1975. Until then, many people who had had the experience felt very alone and confused after what had happened to them. Moody says himself that the words NEAR death was something he came up with but it's technically inaccurate because experiencers do actually die but subsequently are brought back to life. The number of people experiencing NDEs has increased in recent decades due to advances in resuscitation methods.

 

[whatevs]

This video from a German NDE YouTube channel is absolutely fascinating and very reassuring to anyone with a belief in the afterlife.

The host interviews a medical doctor about whether there is a correlation between negative NDEs (which usually means going to hell) and suicide. The doctor states that "the internal emotional condition of a person during the moment of death has an influence on what will come next".

He gives an example of a woman who died after a cesarean birth and had a wonderful Near Death Experience. She was given a choice on the other side whether she wanted to stay there or return and she chose to return for the sake of her children. Then she had a very stressful time in the emergency ward and died again an hour later where she had a very negative NDE. She didn't become a bad person in the hour between the two NDEs - she was just in a different emotional state during the second one.

So it makes sense that if you CTB carrying a lot of despair or anger, as many do, then these emotions carry over into what comes next.

Just because you feel temporarily better during death it shouldn't dispel your karma. It's misguiding to present the issue like this, that it's just the sentiments at death, to me at least, because what should define the afterlife is the subtle or etheric body that has been created through the strongest, most frequent emotions and experiences of your entire lifetime. That is what karma is, partially, because I shouldn't be expected to fully grasp it but I believe I pinned down the basics.

What you wrote sounds more like the hallucinations the psyche conjures when it is faced with the sheer terror of annihilation, which will be tinted by your disposition of the moment.

 

[Red Scare]

There are just as money comments and anecdotes from people who did die, and were revived, and they say they experienced nothing.

Most so called "NDEs" occur when people who are not anywhere close to dying. Drugs, hallucinations, etc. all make more sense when you consider what we actually know about the brain and consciousness.

All of these ideas about near death experiences and an afterlife presupposes something we have no scientific evidence of: that consciousness can exist apart from a functioning brain, or that we have an immaterial soul hat somehow travels to an immaterial realm in contradiction of everything we know about time/space.

There has never been any scientific evidence or reason to think that anything non-material can exist. So consciousness must depend on a material process. It would stand to reason then that these so called near death experiences are a product of that same brain.

 

[fox_wannabe]

Complete void? Never existed and never will. A transformation of the experience is what I expect. Even if there is a pause it will not be felt, as we don't feel sleeping or a coma.

Felt by what or whom? I cannot imagine that there is a soul in me. Is there something like consciousness that transitions. I just cannot think why would It have to go through next life or set of experiences If It wasn't for some grave mistake.

 

[whatevs]

Felt by what or whom? I cannot imagine that there is a soul in me. Is there something like consciousness that transitions. I just cannot think why would It have to go through next life or set of experiences If It wasn't for some grave mistake.

I'm torn because on one hand I know for a fact consciousness is a result of evolution and depends on a sophisticated nervous system, but on the other I feel strongly that the world isn't coincidental and chaotic, so there's something that continues or is achieved in each life, data that persists and is used later.

 

[Famous Last Words]

because what should define the afterlife is the subtle or etheric body that has been created through the strongest, most frequent emotions and experiences of your entire lifetime. That is what karma is, partially, because I shouldn't be expected to fully grasp it but I believe I pinned down the basics.

It sounds like this is what happens during the life review where you re-live your entire life but from the perspective of the people you interacted and had relationships with. You learn how your acts of kindness made others feel and how all the horrible things you said and did impacted people too. Apparently you literally feel what they felt but many times over.

 

[whatevs]

It sounds like this is what happens during the life review where you re-live your entire life but from the perspective of the people you interacted and had relationships with. You learn how your acts of kindness made others feel and how all the horrible things you said and did impacted people too. Apparently you literally feel what they felt but man

I think you misunderstood what I meant. You wrote that we can kill ourselves and if we are calm or cheerful at that moment everything will be alright. What I'm saying is that if you kill yourself because you hate your life you probably have horrible karma and you are going to keep suffering either way, even if you feel good when you catch the bus. Because you NORMALLY aren't calm or cheerful.

Not to mention the karmic implications of suicide, which aren't clear. This needs research. The very idea of karma or afterlife is very nebulous and needs empiric research from an individual point of view. I just feel there's something to it but can't grasp the details.

 

[Pain In The Ass]

This is the LAST thing I want to hear! You're telling me I'm taking all this pain through to the next realm?! I don't buy any of it, but it will scare the shit out of anyone who does!

 

[fox_wannabe]

I'm torn because on one hand I know for a fact consciousness is a result of evolution and depends on a sophisticated nervous system, but on the other I feel strongly that the world isn't coincidental and chaotic, so there's something that continues or is achieved in each life, data that persists and is used later.

Holy shit. Data, maybe we all are probes used by huge fucking AI to gather data or some shit. Like huge simulation. Google cube of saturn.
Maybe that is what gnostics talked about- demiurge creating false heaven in which souls were imprisoned.

This world indeed looks very intentional, It would not exist If left to simple chance. I think I am fucked with in some metaphysical way.

 

[Famous Last Words]

I think you misunderstood what I meant. You wrote that we can kill ourselves and if we are calm or cheerful at that moment everything will be alright. What I'm saying is that if you kill yourself because you hate your life you probably have horrible karma and you are going to keep suffering either way, even if you feel good when you catch the bus. Because you NORMALLY aren't calm or cheerful.

Not to mention the karmic implications of suicide, which aren't clear. This needs research.

Good point. I think we're all here to learn lessons in the physical realm and if we cut short the experience, then we have to come back for a do-over. I don't think we're doomed in the pits of hell for eternity.

 

[whatevs]

Good point. I think we're all here to learn lessons in the physical realm and if we cut short the experience, then we have to come back for a do-over. I don't think we're doomed in the pits of hell for eternity.

Oh no, we are already in Hell, that's a given. Hell is a state of mind, not a place. And we are in it for sure.

Holy shit. Data, maybe we all are probes used by huge fucking AI to gather data or some shit. Like huge simulation. Google cube of saturn.
Maybe that is what gnostics talked about- demiurge creating false heaven in which souls were imprisoned.

This world indeed looks very intentional, It would not exist If left to simple chance. I think I am fucked with in some metaphysical way.

I'm with you, I did some research on Saturn and the satanic elite some years ago. I'm pretty sure we live in a world that is a mixture of Society (1989), They Live, The Matrix and Dark City. The food chain and overall the idyosincrasy of life are very dark, the media uses esoteric symbols and deceit, secret societies/psychopaths control the world, etc. It all paints a rather grim picture. The world is intentional but it's also cursed or tragic in a fundamental way.

 

[Famous Last Words]

Oh no, we are already in Hell, that's a given. Hell is a state of mind, not a place. And we are in it for sure.

This is a very good point. It's interesting too how people who die and come back often say that the other side is the real reality and this physical realm is the dream state. Where we're weighed down with dense heavy bodies and endless worries and anxieties.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

data that persists and is used later

By whom or what?

 

[Al Cappella]

I've always been really fascinated and interested, but sceptical. While I'm not wholly a materialist, I tend to lean in the direction of unexplained phenomena are eventually all going to be explained. But. The brain is endlessly fascinating and we hardly know anything about it. And, as far as I know, every culture has NDEs, so there is something there.

 

[Red Scare]

This world indeed looks very intentional

No it doesn't. There is so much in nature that happens that makes you go "huh?" that it leaves no room in my mind for intelligent design. An intelligent designer could have designed a way better universe than this one.

It would not exist If left to simple chance.

There's two ways to look at it. Determinism, or randomness. Neither has to invoke intelligent design to account for the things we are still learning.

It's interesting too how people who die and come back often say that the other side is the real reality and this physical realm is the dream state.

There are numerous accounts from people who died and were revived that say they experienced absolutely nothing but a cessation of consciousness.