Suicidal People are the Priviest Ones to Understand the Truth of Reality

[Snake of Eden]

If the premise of the thread is to indulge our differences as opposed to the majority of people who do not entertain suicidality that's probably fair imo, but as stated above it's based on the notion that the suicidal "community" are a distinct and unified bloc, and not a completely disparate subset with myriad drivers and motivators.

no need for any apologies. I always very much appreciate your well thought and balanced sounding opinions on matters in general as you sound well versed and more experienced than most of us. What goes without saying, is that we are a microcosm of larger society thus we are just as heterogenous. What I meant to imply is that it is safe to assume that we are more likely than normies to have experienced the proverbial rock bottom as the whole reason we are here is that we feel we have reached to our limit. This very occurrence will likely result in broader outlook about reality of life than someone who hasnt gotten there. I am not quoting the bible here but didnt Jesus go to the depths of hell before ascending to the highest heaven. I am bringing this up symbolically to allude that phenomena of broadening the insight as a result of radical suffering. It remains true that the deeper aspect of systems will reveal more truth about them than the most superficial level aspects. People who have experienced both highest levels of happiness possible and then the lowest suffering possible have even a better chances at achieving broader prospective than the ones who either experienced only happiness or only suffering

 

[Snake of Eden]

Many people enjoy life, and why shouldn't they? There's enough of it to like, and these people haven't hoodwinked themselves into doing so. Even the most grating, nauseating optimist is aware of death

how aware are we talking here? As much as you and me?

 

[Chinaski]

how aware are we talking here? As much as you and me?

Perhaps not, we're hyper-aware of it because we obsess on it, but this doesn't mean we have a superior insight or deeper understanding of the world around us imo. There's not a person on this earth who is unaware of the fact they will expire.

This site needs you more than you need it

Ha, I'm confident this is very much a minority view.

If an individual is driven to self-harm or self-annihilation by societal triggers, then why is it assumed to be the individual who is "warped" and not the society?

Because this assumes self-annihilation is a perfectly natural response, when it is not.

Someone suffering from a chronic physical pain experiences daily existence in a different way to those who do not. Their experience of living under such conditions naturally warps their perspective on life. It reduces its value.

Someone who is suicidal due to, say, separation or grief is experiencing a heightened emotional response which, in turn, will affect their perspective on life as a whole in a way which is often unreal to everyone else but an absolute certainty to that individual.

Regarding societal triggers, such as debt, poverty, homelessness, addiction, poor healthcare etc I've been consistent in the view that these drivers need to be ameliorated before society considers "death on demand" in numerous threads, l am not here arguing that society is actually great, but that societal influences can affect one's perspective on being alive as a whole, in a very negative way - and l too would prefer these societal drivers did not exist and lives were saved as a result.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Perhaps not, we're hyper-aware of it because we obsess on it, but this doesn't mean we have a superior insight or deeper understanding of the world around us imo. There's not a person on this earth who is unaware of the fact they will expire.

Being hyper aware of something is excessive. There is a balance factor to it after all which goes without saying. You are right in the sense that we can not assume monopoly on insight just because we are hyper aware of the death per se but it is not about the destination to me really, it is about the way that got us there. Someone who experienced tragedy or trauma surely will go through a great destabilising state mentally and emotionally but if they and when they are able to come back closer to the center of being, then that very experience may change them in a profound ways and imo mostly to the better because they have practically moved on by surviving that destabilizing event. I admit that is not always the case as some people will be negatively impacted across the board which will deem that event as catastrophic in scope and this forum is an event of this happening. We are very complex afterall and the individual side of this phenomena is the key determinant to how drastically undesirable states affect us for the better or worse. It is also a cultural problem as some aspects of culture can make people in general more likely to be resilient such as what happens to people of strong faith in greater power but that is another whole different discussion

 

[Chinaski]

Awareness of death is relative to its proximity imo, there's a quote along the lines of "if we all knew the exact date and time of our death, we could no longer continue to *live*" and l think there's something in that here.

When in the deepest grip of suicidal ideation, at the furthest end of its continuum, one's perceived proximity to death is much closer than that of the "normie". In reality, the proximity is equal, it's the perception which is crucial. This is what I'm referring to when l mention hyper-awareness. We focus excessively on our own proximity to death, whereas an individual in their sixties with a known heart problem will have a realistically greater proximity to actual death but will try not to dwell on it as otherwise, like the quote, they would no longer be able to *live*.

 

[9BBN]

Many people enjoy life, and why shouldn't they? There's enough of it to like, and these people haven't hoodwinked themselves into doing so.

I happen to think that many people hoodwink themselves into living by entertaining comforting lies like religion. But this is not to push back on the larger point you're making, which I agree with, about how it's rational that most people enjoy life, with or without religion. I don't think being suicidal inherently brings one closer to the truth, nor do I think experiences that turn people suicidal are more truthful than pleasant experiences.