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waitin2go

30~years passive ideation, 2025 active research
Apr 26, 2025
70
Idk, what do y'all think? Probably not wording it correctly (I'd hate to use "pessimism" as the opposite of "optimism")

But still, i see it that suicidal people being more aware of the realities and unable to delude themselves into feeling positively about harsh realities of life.

Shouldn't optimistic people, then, also be diagnosed with mental conditions of delusion and grandeur since they're able to delude themselves into ignoring harsh realities of life?
 
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R

RiverOfLife

Student
Nov 7, 2024
116
I recall reading a study that said that depressed people were actually more realistic than optimistic people.
This did not improve my mood
 
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O

obligatoryshackles

I don't want to get used to it.
Aug 11, 2023
167
Well history tells us that it's not the realists who push humanity forward but the dreamers and the ambitious. So culturally we naturally admire those who are optimistic, who believe in and fight for a better outcome than the expected reality. There's some confirmation bias there - many such dreamers and ambitious men overextended or were fully immersed in delusions of grandeur, often to catastrophic effect. But nonetheless, without such people humanity wouldn't have gotten very far.

And who's to say these so called "harsh realities of life" are set in stone, that it isn't a self imposed limitation built on wrongful bias against oneself? The important factor isn't pessimism or optimism but the extremes. Delusions of grandeur ARE often classified as mental illness. A little bit of realistic pessimism is typically just a personality trait. And yeah, a lot of the time suicidality is perfectly rational. Some people's lives are just so shit that not being suicidal would be more of a mental illness.

There is often a conflation between suicidality and mental illness, especially with people who can't understand what it's like to live a life so horrible that you are reasonably driven to it, but there is such thing as irrational suicidality born of mental illness. Suicidality caused by things like low self esteem from abuse, clinical depression, irrational anxiety, etc. which are at least partially treatable is an abnormal condition.
 
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waitin2go

30~years passive ideation, 2025 active research
Apr 26, 2025
70
I recall reading a study that said that depressed people were actually more realistic than optimistic people.
This did not improve my mood
Right???? Your last sentence did got me to chuckle in solidarity tho, thanks for that. Also I guess why the term "blissfully ignorant" (or today's "delulu is the solulu") stands the test of time

often to catastrophic effect.
Yep watching it realtime in the news sucks too T-T

Suicidality caused by things like low self esteem from abuse, clinical depression, irrational anxiety, etc. which are at least partially treatable is an abnormal condition.
I do wish more medical personnel believed people who are passively suicidal enough (rather than wait for people to attempt, then call them attention-seeking - like no shit.. (had this happen to a close relative, which is why I don't have trust in the health sistem)

Yeah I was turned down for psychiatric eval and dismissed with "you're not harming yourself or others so we can't do anything, just tighten your bootstraps like everyone else" - imho I kinda agree... where I am, the system is underfunded and understaffed so if I can leave without having to burden them, I'll take that road any day
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
11,652
Suicide isn't the opposite of optimism though. Suicide is an action, optimism is an attitude. Pessimism would be the opposite of optimism. But sure- both could be viewed as delusions or, accurate I suppose.

A person who has achieved grade A's throughout life, had multiple good job opportunities come up, had plenty of people find them attractive may very well feel optimistic about their future. Why wouldn't they?

Who's to say an optimistic attitude isn't inherited and further reinforced by upbringing? Similarly for a pessimistic outlook. I dread to think how my would-be children would turn out! Hence, I don't have any.

Even then though- is it an actual delussion? Do optimists truly believe that no harm will ever befall them? I doubt it. They're not stupid. They must know about death, illness, job redundancy etc. They likely just find their life easier to cope with if they focus on their strengths and the better things.

But, suicide is the opposite of living. So, the question is surely more- who's the more delluded? Those who choose to live or die?

Again, that depends on their circumstances and their experience of life. If it's good- why would they suicide? If it's bad though then, it's up to them. They could try to cling to hope and optimism. Maybe it would work- maybe their life would improve. In which case, it wasn't a delusion, it was a hope that came true.

If they decide to suicide though, then it depends on your belief. Either they relieved themselves from life. Even if it had the potential to get better, maybe it doesn't matter. They're not alive to regret the action. If you wonder about the possibility of an afterlife though- it could have worse consequences.

The problem with both optimistic and pessimistic views on the future is they're just that- views about the future. The future is unknown. They're both delussional in that sense but likely based on previous experience.

The problem with pessimism though is, it could be a result of depression. If depression is an illness then, it means the brain is negatively and abnormally skewed. So- can we trust that it's perceiving things correctly?

I'm not sure the same can be attributed to optimists. Perhaps people going through psychosis with delusions of grandeur but- that isn't the majority I imagine. I'd imagine that a great many suicidal people do have depression.

Regardless though- whether it's a delluded or accurate way of seeing the world, it's still a problem if it can't be adequately adjusted.

The bigger problem with suicide though is, it's a very disruptive action. Unlike a pessimist or optimist who can just be ignored if we find them irritating, suicides cause other people to grieve deeply. So, they aren't exactly a passive choice.
 
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SVEN

SVEN

I Wish I'd Been a Jester Too.
Apr 3, 2023
2,676
Many of us may be optimistic about managing to kill ourselves.
 

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