Suffering is the default state on this dreadful planet.

[The anhedonic one]

An immense amount of suffering occurs here on earth automatically and often without any logical reason.
People drop dead all the time, or suddenly develop terrible diseases, or are killed en-masse in natural disasters.
All of these things occur without any effort from humans whatsoever. It's just the cruel forces of nature at work doing its thing.
All of nature is also a predatory system. Something has to be killed in order for something else to survive. Hence even more suffering upon suffering.

Yet anything worthwhile never occurs naturally. To experience any form of happiness we have to put in a certain amount of effort.
Also the bad things in life often outweigh the good by a significant margin.

Why can't the good things in life occur naturally and without effort like all the bad things do ?

I'm having difficulty trying to express this, can anyone else relate to what I'm trying to say ?

 

[Darkover]

the more you look at reality the more you realize it's a rotten deal the bad outweights the good

 

[FuneralCry]

It's true that existence is just meaningless suffering and senseless cruelty that is experienced all for the sake of it, so unnecessarily, I see the existence of life as being the most tragic mistake, only nothingness is acceptable to me.

 

[ARW3N]

Yes, even James Bond died in the last Bond movie to make it more realistic to life which ends in death.

 

[OceanBlue]

Why can't the good things in life occur naturally and without effort like all the bad things do ?

Yeah, it could at least be equally good and bad, no idea why it had to be such a nightmare. Hard to build, easy to destroy.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can't help but agree with you from our perspective. I wonder just how many animals think like this though. Obviously they suffer. Many are afraid of being eaten- or- are being eaten. I can't get over sometimes though how say a herd of gazelles are ambushed by lions. For that moment- they are terrified and running for their lives in terror. Then, the lions make their kill- or, fail and the gazelles just go back to grazing. No helpline because they've just witnessed a shocking event. They just accept it.

I wonder how many animals would CTB if given the chance though. They DO have that choice really- they could just wander up to a pack of lions. We'd say they wouldn't because they are ruled by their instincts. But we also don't want to view them as entirely dumb- so, we'll accept that they have emotions- even if some species don't reason like we do. If they were ESPECIALLY depressed with their lot though- wouldn't we see more suicides in the NATURAL world? (Not animals in captivity- ANYONE would surely want to kill themselves in a cage.) I'd kill myself if I was an animal I think.

It's not to say life isn't objectively bad or cruel. I just wonder what proportion of the world's creatures realises it. Sentience is a bitch.

 

[ARW3N]

I can't help but agree with you from our perspective. I wonder just how many animals think like this though. Obviously they suffer. Many are afraid of being eaten- or- are being eaten. I can't get over sometimes though how say a herd of gazelles are ambushed by lions. For that moment- they are terrified and running for their lives in terror. Then, the lions make their kill- or, fail and the gazelles just go back to grazing. No helpline because they've just witnessed a shocking event. They just accept it.

I wonder how many animals would CTB if given the chance though. They DO have that choice really- they could just wander up to a pack of lions. We'd say they wouldn't because they are ruled by their instincts. But we also don't want to view them as entirely dumb- so, we'll accept that they have emotions- even if some species don't reason like we do. If they were ESPECIALLY depressed with their lot though- wouldn't we see more suicides in the NATURAL world? (Not animals in captivity- ANYONE would surely want to kill themselves in a cage.) I'd kill myself if I was an animal I think.

It's not to say life isn't objectively bad or cruel. I just wonder what proportion of the world's creatures realises it. Sentience is a bitch.

This is exactly the true nature of things and what Darwin discovered despite the attempts by pro-lifers to sugar-coat life.

 

[The anhedonic one]

I can't help but agree with you from our perspective. I wonder just how many animals think like this though. Obviously they suffer. Many are afraid of being eaten- or- are being eaten. I can't get over sometimes though how say a herd of gazelles are ambushed by lions. For that moment- they are terrified and running for their lives in terror. Then, the lions make their kill- or, fail and the gazelles just go back to grazing. No helpline because they've just witnessed a shocking event. They just accept it.

I wonder how many animals would CTB if given the chance though. They DO have that choice really- they could just wander up to a pack of lions. We'd say they wouldn't because they are ruled by their instincts. But we also don't want to view them as entirely dumb- so, we'll accept that they have emotions- even if some species don't reason like we do. If they were ESPECIALLY depressed with their lot though- wouldn't we see more suicides in the NATURAL world? (Not animals in captivity- ANYONE would surely want to kill themselves in a cage.) I'd kill myself if I was an animal I think.

It's not to say life isn't objectively bad or cruel. I just wonder what proportion of the world's creatures realises it. Sentience is a bitch.

There are examples of animals refusing to eat in periods of grief, or stress.
Also many animals end their lives through self-destructive behaviour.
The Tarsier ( A small primate ) when stressed, will smash its head repeatedly against a tree until it kills itself.
The Tarsier suicide phenomenon is a common occurrence.

 

[Gonnerr]

Earth is hell with a big level of comfort for some (the rich or people in a good state of mind) or very bad level of comfort ( the poor ,the homeless, the unhealthy, people with bad disease to their body or their mind)

 

[ARW3N]

The mention of suicidal Philippine tarsiers has got me intrigued. They are such cute creatures that look like Yoda from Star Wars. Have to study those creatures.

 

[Forever Sleep]

There are examples of animals refusing to eat in periods of grief, or stress.
Also many animals end their lives through self-destructive behaviour.
The Tarsier ( A small primate ) when stressed, will smash its head repeatedly against a tree until it kills itself.
The Tarsier suicide phenomenon is a common occurrence.

True- but I believe that's when the Tarsier is in captivity- which begs the question- are we (humans) in captivity? I'd say- a big 'yes'. We've developed agriculture and industry too fast. We're simply not designed to live like this...

Honestly- you may know more than me... the main examples of animals killing themselves I've come across have been those in captivity OR pets. The whole lemming thing is an evil Disney fabrication. I guess there are examples where parents will stop eating and protect their young. Still- is their primary drive then to kill themselves?

I find it interesting that pets will pine for their owners and stop eating. Some people have argued that it's simply because they were used to being fed by that person. Still- I find it fascinating that I think pets DO pick up human traits and maybe show more psychosis being in contact with us- mainly because they're being forced to live in an unnatural way- for them- eg. seperation anxiety. Birds plucking out their own feathers (self harm,) rocking or pacing behaviour.

 

[The anhedonic one]

True- but I believe that's when the Tarsier is in captivity- which begs the question- are we (humans) in captivity? I'd say- a big 'yes'. We've developed agriculture and industry too fast. We're simply not designed to live like this...

Honestly- you may know more than me... the main examples of animals killing themselves I've come across have been those in captivity OR pets. The whole lemming thing is an evil Disney fabrication. I guess there are examples where parents will stop eating and protect their young. Still- is their primary drive then to kill themselves?

I find it interesting that pets will pine for their owners and stop eating. Some people have argued that it's simply because they were used to being fed by that person. Still- I find it fascinating that I think pets DO pick up human traits and maybe show more psychosis being in contact with us- mainly because they're being forced to live in an unnatural way- for them- eg. seperation anxiety. Birds plucking out their own feathers (self harm,) rocking or pacing behaviour.

True- but I believe that's when the Tarsier is in captivity- which begs the question- are we (humans) in captivity? I'd say- a big 'yes'. We've developed agriculture and industry too fast. We're simply not designed to live like this...

Honestly- you may know more than me... the main examples of animals killing themselves I've come across have been those in captivity OR pets. The whole lemming thing is an evil Disney fabrication. I guess there are examples where parents will stop eating and protect their young. Still- is their primary drive then to kill themselves?

I find it interesting that pets will pine for their owners and stop eating. Some people have argued that it's simply because they were used to being fed by that person. Still- I find it fascinating that I think pets DO pick up human traits and maybe show more psychosis being in contact with us- mainly because they're being forced to live in an unnatural way- for them- eg. seperation anxiety. Birds plucking out their own feathers (self harm,) rocking or pacing behaviour.

My Grandma used to have a rescue dog called Misty.
My Grandma and Misty were inseparable.
Misty would experience a great amount of separation anxiety when away from my Grandma.
She would stare out of the window for hours until my Grandma came home.
When my Grandma passed away, Misty stopped eating and wouldn't leave my Grandma's bedroom.
She would just stare into space for hours on end at the empty bed that Grandma died in.
We eventually took Misty to the vets after 15 days of not eating.
The vet said that it is common for animals to pine away for their human companions, and that there was nothing He could do to help her.
Another 4 days later, Misty passed away, having pined away until death for my Grandma.

 

[Forever Sleep]

My Grandma used to have a rescue dog called Misty.
My Grandma and Misty were inseparable.
Misty would experience a great amount of separation anxiety when away from my Grandma.
She would stare out of the window for hours until my Grandma came home.
When my Grandma passed away, Misty stopped eating and wouldn't leave my Grandma's bedroom.
She would just stare into space for hours on end at the empty bed that Grandma died in.
We eventually took Misty to the vets after 15 days of not eating.
The vet said that it is common for animals to pine away for their human companions, and that there was nothing He could do to help her.
Another 4 days later, Misty passed away, having pined away until death for my Grandma.

Yeah- it's very moving when pets do this. Heart breaking of course. Animals pine in the natural world as well. I've watched how either a whale/dolphin/porpoise pushed it's dead infant along for days. It just couldn't seem to accept that it had died. Other animals DEFINITELY seem to recognise what death means. It's just whether they fully realise it will happen to them one day and if they've worked out they can bring it about early.

I'm not trying to demean animals incidentally. I LOVE the natural world. I think a lot of the time we really demean animals because it's more comfortable for us that way- considering what we do to them. If you can cope with feeling guilty about our race- I recommend watching the 2013 film 'Blackfish'. About Seaworld's treatment of captive orca's and what happens ultimately as a result- the death of 3 people...

I guess what I was trying to put forward for this thread though was this: I think we can all agree that the natural world is ALSO based on cruelty. While there are some symbiotic relationships, the majority of the time- it's tooth and claw, dog eat dog out there. The DESIGN of this world is pretty sadistic. On top of that- we've made life SO much harder for animals in the wild. We've destroyed their habitats, hunted them to near extinction, filled their world with chemicals. Life's GOT to be VERY difficult for most animals these days. So WHY aren't they killing themselves in droves? I'm guessing because- although they experience emotions, they don't quite have the sentience we do to REALISE what a shit world this is- and- why should they be a part of it anymore?

It's not to say it's objectively right of course. Put it this way though- what's more cruel? To cage a gorilla or to put a fish in a tank? Does the fish even realise it's in a tank? Does it get depressed- so long as it's needs are met? It's just the same old issue really isn't it? Many people here will agree that existence is the root cause to all this suffering. WOULD it REALLY be fair to wipe out all life if we actually could? What about the creatures that don't realise just how bad things are? (Including the pro-lifers. )

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree with the title. That's why I want to be dead

 

[onlywayout-]

Life is full of pain and agony. Pain mostly outweighs any other feeling in life, in nature.

 

[R_N]

The only way to experience "happiness" is to isolate yourself from suffering. To become ignorant of all the beings in pain while indulging pleasurable emotions.

But you can't do that forever.