Stefan Molyneux's view on Suicide

[freedommatrix]

Has anyone seen the video?

 

[LaBrava]

I think Stefan Molyneux is an asshole (and wannabe cult leader, and I'm guessing this video wouldn't improve my opinion of him. Max Kaiser's okay.

 

[LivingToLong]

I've not watched the video, and I doubt I will, but I would ask this - what is wrong with selfishness?

It is my life. Why do I have to answer to others about taking it? I accept that it will cause distress/grief to others but I accept that that is a part of the decision I make. Is that selfish? I have considered the grief others will feel in the future and decided that it does not outweigh the pain I am feeling now.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

My life is mine and I choose when I want to end it. I didn't ask to be born. And where is the selfishness in stopping my suffering? It's the only way to set myself free.

 

[Final Escape]

Yes, I've watched many of his vids. Huge respect for Mr. Molyneux. If it wasn't for some of his vids I would have not understood what happened as to why I failed at life lol! I was able to forgive myself more and understand that government is the true reason for much of the problems that are not being solved in our society. I learned a lot from him. I might not like everything he has to say but his material is a lot of painful truths that nobody wants to hear because then u have to admit that you have been brainwashed all your life. Not everyone is able to admit they are wrong or doing bad things thinking it's justified.

 

[TAW122]

To add to this, I would say that people who also prevent suicide just so they don't feel sad or be impacted are equally (if not more) selfish than the person committing suicide.

 

[Guizin239]

Have you seen his comments on being bald? They're great

 

[watchingthewheels]

Has anyone seen the video?

The video is gone now, since his channel was struck, but if it's the video I think it was ("Exploring the Selfishness of Suicide"), it may have been me as the caller. I did call in at the beginning of 2018, I think it was. (Christmas/New Year's time.)

I can tell you that I was not happy with him afterwards. Instead of helping, I felt more attacked than helped. Maybe it was meant to be "tough love", I don't know. He did say a few helpful things, at least. But it felt more like a personal attack, and an opportunity to monologue.

(The odd part, to me, aside from everything else, was that he called out my father as a piece of shit for killing himself...odd, because he was the first person to do so, when everyone else in my life was telling how great my father was. The sad thing is that there's a ring of truth to what Molyneux said, though. Judging from what I learned about his death, via the police report, and finally finding out what he did it, after 40 years of rationalizations based on speculation...well, he was not innocent in all of this.)

And I thought it was odd of Molyneux to call out suicide as "Selfish", despite his own admiration for Ayn Rand. And it also ignored suicide in different contexts. But whatever I think about Molyneu or his views, for better or worse, ultimately, it wasn't him who upset me as much as the comments section on Youtube, when it was posted...that was the worst. I could at least understand where he was coming from. But the people making assumptions and saying things that I never even said...the worst was the snide comments based on my homosexuality. No, actually, the worst was the assumptions and speculations, saying that I was an addict, alcoholic (I'm not), etc, made that showed they weren't even listening to what I said. They heard what they wanted to hear. That said, there were supportive comments as well. But overall, I was not happy afterwards, I regretted calling in. I didn't know much Molyneux him at the time, but his name kept coming up in Google searches in relation to my issues regarding cutting out toxic family members and the guilt that goes with that. (My personal situation regarding my father's suicide and learning the truth about my mother's involvement in it while I was caring for her in the hospital, finding out that she was a malignant narcissist who was manipulating everyone, and also finding out about other toxic family in the process, dredging up old wounds and reopeing scars I thought long-healed, and turned my whole life upside down.)

 

[GarageKarate07]

The video is gone now, since his channel was struck, but if it's the video I think it was ("Exploring the Selfishness of Suicide"), it may have been me as the caller. I did call in at the beginning of 2018, I think it was. (Christmas/New Year's time.)

I can tell you that I was not happy with him afterwards. Instead of helping, I felt more attacked than helped. Maybe it was meant to be "tough love", I don't know. He did say a few helpful things, at least. But it felt more like a personal attack, and an opportunity to monologue.

(The odd part, to me, aside from everything else, was that he called out my father as a piece of shit for killing himself...odd, because he was the first person to do so, when everyone else in my life was telling how great my father was. The sad thing is that there's a ring of truth to what Molyneux said, though. Judging from what I learned about his death, via the police report, and finally finding out what he did it, after 40 years of rationalizations based on speculation...well, he was not innocent in all of this.)

But whatever I think about Molyneux, for better or worse, ultimately, it wasn't him who upset me as much as the comments section on Youtube, when it was posted...that was the worst. I could at least understand where he was coming from. But the people making assumptions and saying things that I never even said...the worst was the snide comments based on my homosexuality. No, actually, the worst was the assumptions and speculations, saying that I was an addict, alcoholic (I'm not), etc, made that showed they weren't even listening to what I said. They heard what they wanted to hear. That said, there were supportive comments as well. But overall, I was not happy afterwards, I regretted calling in. I didn't know much Molyneux him at the time, but his name kept coming up in Google searches in relation to my issues regarding cutting out toxic family members and the guilt that goes with that. (My personal situation regarding my father's suicide and learning the truth about my mother's involvement in it while I was caring for her in the hospital, finding out that she was a malignant narcissist who was manipulating everyone, and also finding out about other toxic family in the process, dredging up old wounds and reopeing scars I thought long-healed, and turned my whole life upside down.)

So. What happened with your father? Did you see him as good? Why would anyone say he was bad? How are you doing now?

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

He's a funny guy at least.

 

[watchingthewheels]

So. What happened with your father? Did you see him as good? Why would anyone say he was bad? How are you doing now?

I detail most of that in my first post here.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/family-legacy-of-suicide.59643/

But as to the question of did I see him as good or bad...I barely saw him at all; he killed himself when I was four, and I have very few memories of him. I could count them on 6 fingers or so, and was too youn, so I never had the chance to see him as good first-hand.

But why would anyone say he was bad? Well, the story I was told as to what happened when I was 4 (it was out of the blue, no one knew why he did it, except that he was very sad but loved us very much), to what I was told as a teen (he might have been gay, they were having marital problems, etc) vs. what really happened (he and my mother had a agreed-upon sexual encounter with each other's friends, which he apparently regretted, and wanted to save his marriage and family while she was still seeing the guy apparently), he was selling my uncle pot (not a big deal in itself, but he wasn't exactly choir-boy, either), and it WASN'T out of the blue. He was talking about it days before, called my grandmother, even (who lied about the situation but then told me the truth in the next breath without skipping a beat, that he called her days before saying he was going to kill himself.) My uncle showed up the day of to buy some pot off of him (the day after the fight my parents had, when my uncle was told to come back the next day), and saw my father on the phone with the gun on the counter, yelling "I'll KILL him!" when he found out my mom was talking to the other guy...only to kill himself, instead.

Is that enough? How about this? Killing himself in the house, shooting himself in the head, leaving him to be found like that by his wife and children?

That's where the conflict comes in. After learning the truth about my mom, I can see that she was crushing his soul; I've felt that same soul-crushing from her myself, driving me to suicidal thoughts since I was at least 8 years old. I know he was in pain, and I've rationalized that for a long time. But at the same time, finding out the truth, well, he left his children with an abusive mother. He abandoned us at 3 and 4 years old to deal with it. He was not strong enough to fight for us. And yet, I had to be strong enough to continue fighting in an abusive household, and even be strong for the sake of the abusive mother who kept putting us in harm's way?

So, yeah, I see both sides. But at the end of the day...I can feel sympathy for him and anger towards him, at the same time. He abandoned his children in the most violent way. I found his body on the floor at four years old. That's his legacy. That's where I am about him. Still, his guilt is still less than the rest of my family. I only had him for the first four years. I had the rest of my childhood to deal with their abuse and lies and plain-out evil in places.
As for how I am doing now?

Well...my whole worldview came crashing down after finding out the truth. I thought that people could change, if one lived by example, I was more optimistic before. I didn't allow my background to define me, or to make excuses for myself, or feel sorry for myself, to not give up. But when I found out the truth not just about my father, but went on around him, and how it was covered up, and the true character of the people involved...it crushed me inside. Everything I thought I knew, all my rationalizations for the subsequent abuse being caused by his suicide, when it was their abuse that contributed to it. And while some of these people were outright scumbags, others put on the front of being wholesome, God-fearing people. It's not the scumbags who hurt the most, it's the wolves in sheep's clothing that really anger me..smiling to my face as they stab in the back.

And I only found out by accident because of a drunk uncle. I'm cut myself off from them, and am basically alone, now. My best friend abandoned me during this, too. And I've been single for too long, yet I still think about the only person I ever did love romantically, even though it was never going to work. I'm not even touching that one, here, I'm already too worked up.

It's been almost 5 years since I've found out the truth, not just about him, but about the downright evil that people are capable of. I always thought that real evil people were the exception, that most of us are just lost and struggling to make sense of the world and deal with out traumas, that we all make mistakes in the process. These weren't people making mistakes, they were deliberately bringing about pain. It was right in front of me, all along. And I was too blind or naive to see it. And now I see it everywhere, writ large.

I once vowed to not killmself in order not to follow in his footsteps, and to avenge him and my mother if I ever found out the truth as to what pushed him over the edge. When I found out the truth, that it was themselves, then I vowed to do better by living a better life, "to do no harm". To bring good into the world. I'm not perfect, but I've given my all. I don't expect others to be. But they need to TRY at least. I can, and have, forgive. But people around me don't WANT to be forgiven, they don't WANT to be better, they RESENT any attempt at others to be better. They just want to drag everyone else down to their level. I try to set others up to succeed, win/win while they try to set others up to fail, win-lose. So my view of humanity itself is now shattered. And on top of that, I got sick, myself. I could have let it kill me. At times, I hoped it would. But I stuck it out, and fought to get healthy again, only to have the whole world shut down and treat even the healthy as sick...It's all a sick joke, at this point. I'm too spiritually dead to live, but too healthy to die. My trust and faith in humanity is dead. I'm just watching the wheels go round and round.

If I had something worth fighting for, or someone, I would. But I don't. One could say I have myself, that I have a right to be here, too. But it's not the same. There's an old song that goes "I don't care what they say, I won't stay in a world without love." I get it, now. For those who do have it...cherish it.


If I'm not quite dead inside, I'm flat-lining.

 

[GarageKarate07]

That's a long sotry

I detail most of that in my first post here.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/family-legacy-of-suicide.59643/

But as to the question of did I see him as good or bad...I barely saw him at all; he killed himself when I was four, and I have very few memories of him. I could count them on 6 fingers or so, never had the chance to see him as good first-hand.

But why would anyone say he was bad? Well, the story I was told as to what happened when I was 4 (it was out of the blue, no one knew why he did it, except that he was very sad but loved us very much), to what I was told as a teen (he might have been gay, they were having marital problems, etc) vs. what really happened (he and my mother had a agreed-upon sexual encounter with each other's friends, which he apparently regretted, and wanted to save his marriage and family while she was still seeing the guy apparently), he was selling my uncle pot (not a big deal in itself, but he wasn't exactly choir-boy, either), and it WASN'T out of the blue. He was talking about it days before, called my grandmother, even (who lied about the situation but then told me the truth in the next breath without skipping a beat, that he called her days before saying he was going to kill himself.) My uncle showed up the day of to buy some pot off of him (the day after the fight my parents had, when my uncle was told to come back the next day), and saw my father on the phone with the gun on the counter, yelling "I'll KILL him!" when he found out my mom was talking to the other guy...only to kill himself, instead.

Is that enough? How about this? Killing himself in the house, shooting himself in the head, leaving him to be found like that by his wife and children?

That's where the conflict comes in. After learning the truth about my mom, I can see that she was crushing his soul; I've felt that same soul-crushing from her myself, driving me to suicidal thoughts since I was at least 8 years old. I know he was in pain, and I've rationalized that for a long time. But at the same time, finding out the truth, well, he left his children with an abusive mother. He abandoned us at 3 and 4 years old to deal with it. He was not strong enough to fight for us. And yet, I had to be strong enough to continue fighting in an abusive household, and even be strong for the sake of the abusive mother who kept putting us in harm's way?

So, yeah, I see both sides. But at the end of the day...I can feel sympathy for him and anger towards him, at the same time. He abandoned his children in the most violent way. I found his body on the floor at four years old. That's his legacy. That's where I am about him. Still, his guilt is still less than the rest of my family. I only had him for the first four years. I had the rest of my childhood to deal with their abuse and lies and plain-out evil in places.
As for how I am doing now?

Well...my whole worldview came crashing down after finding out the truth. I thought that people could change, if one lived by example, I was more optimistic before. I didn't allow my background to define me, or to make excuses for myself, or feel sorry for myself, to not give up. But when I found out the truth not just about my father, but went on around him, and how it was covered up, and the true character of the people involved...it crushed me inside. Everything I thought I knew, all my rationalizations for the subsequent abuse being caused by his suicide, when it was their abuse that contributed to it.

And I only found out by accident because of a drunk uncle. I'm cut myself off from them, and am basically alone, now. My best friend abandoned me during this, too.

It's been almost 5 years since I've found out the truth, not just about him, but about the downright evil that people are capable of. I always thought that real evil people were the exception, that most of us are just lost and struggling to make sense of the world and deal with out traumas, that we all make mistakes in the process. These weren't people making mistakes, they were deliberately bringing about pain. It was right in front of me, all along. And I was too blind or naive to see it. And now I see it everywhere.

I once vowed to not killmself in order not to follow in his footsteps, and to avenge him and my mother if I ever found out the truth as to what pushed him over the edge. When I found out the truth, that it was themselves, then I vowed to do better by living a better life, "to do no harm". To bring good into the world. I'm not perfect, but I've given my all. But my view of humanity itself is now shattered. And on top of that, I got sick, myself. I could have let it kill me. At times, I hoped it would. But I stuck it out, and fought to get healthy again, only to have the whole world shut down and treat even the healthy as sick...It's all a sick joke, at this point.

If I had something worth fighting for, or someone, I would. But I don't. One could say I have myself, that I have a right to be here, too. But it's not the same. There's an old song that goes "I don't care what they say, I won't stay in a world without love." I get it, now.


If I'm not quite dead inside, I'm flat-lining.

I can relate. My past abuse has left a whole inside me that I never found the strength to heal. There are moments of happiness but the blanket of pain has been to thick to throw off. I have done well so many times with awards, medals, promotions, publications, and the gift of my own small authority which I always used to help the people under me. When I was not in charge I always helped the people around me especially new people because a new place can be hard if it is not inviting. I was a good trainer. Maybe too good because most of them left for better pastures lol. But the pain inside me was always there. It eats me up now. I have lost many people because even though I put out love I am myself sad and hurt. Learning more about the past can be really painful. I think many of us here can relate to that as well. I was hurt in school and then at home for years and it left me broken for life. This is why I can't wait to go home (CTB) as my real home here only gives me pain. I have hurt my own children because I have this pain. I distanced myself so they would not see me hurt. It was not easy on me or them. I always told the truth and tried to promote encouragement though and I guess that made me look like some kind of an ass. I did provide financially which is one thing that kept me going is that small bit of help from far away. It can be hard to pick up the pieces and keep walking on a happy path. These things are not your fault. Life is so hard on the young and nobody seems to fix it while its happening. As adults we get lost and make many mistakes. This is also not your fault. Try not to think of your parents as evil or cruel. They have been hurt to and didn't know well enough to "stop the cycle". We all suffer from this. Do not take it to heart. Do not say bad things about yourself over mistakes that you feel you may have made because of this hard past. You are learning just like we all are. You have done great things. Dont forget to count those things as well. ❤. Remember that the only opinion about yourself that matters is your own. Sometimes this advice is not easy and I dont do it as often as I should either. Just because you may not be able to heal all the pain does not mean you should forget to heal and learn from some of the pain. ❤

 

[Superdeterminist]

I used to watch all of Stefan's videos, he's a compelling speaker. But in all honesty, I strongly oppose many of his views. I do wish the vid was still available. Knowing Stefan, I'm gonna take a wild guess that he's opposed to suicide.

 

[watchingthewheels]

I can relate. My past abuse has left a whole inside me that I never found the strength to heal. There are moments of happiness but the blanket of pain has been to thick to throw off. I have done well so many times with awards, medals, promotions, publications, and the gift of my own small authority which I always used to help the people under me. When I was not in charge I always helped the people around me especially new people because a new place can be hard if it is not inviting. I was a good trainer. Maybe too good because most of them left for better pastures lol. But the pain inside me was always there. It eats me up now. I have lost many people because even though I put out love I am myself sad and hurt. Learning more about the past can be really painful. I think many of us here can relate to that as well. I was hurt in school and then at home for years and it left me broken for life. This is why I can't wait to go home (CTB) as my real home here only gives me pain. I have hurt my own children because I have this pain. I distanced myself so they would not see me hurt. It was not easy on me or them. I always told the truth and tried to promote encouragement though and I guess that made me look like some kind of an ass. I did provide financially which is one thing that kept me going is that small bit of help from far away. It can be hard to pick up the pieces and keep walking on a happy path. These things are not your fault. Life is so hard on the young and nobody seems to fix it while its happening. As adults we get lost and make many mistakes. This is also not your fault. Try not to think of your parents as evil or cruel. They have been hurt to and didn't know well enough to "stop the cycle". We all suffer from this. Do not take it to heart. Do not say bad things about yourself over mistakes that you feel you may have made because of this hard past. You are learning just like we all are. You have done great things. Dont forget to count those things as well. ❤. Remember that the only opinion about yourself that matters is your own. Sometimes this advice is not easy and I dont do it as often as I should either. Just because you may not be able to heal all the pain does not mean you should forget to heal and learn from some of the pain. ❤

Like throwing "pearls before swine, without even getting a pork chop in return."

Re: kids and continuing abuse: That's one reason I vowed never to have kids or pets; I know what I myself am capable of, and I DON'T want to perpetuate abuse. If that meant being alone, I accepted that as the cost, knowing that I at least woulnd't be perpetuating the cycle. You said that you hurt your own children, so you understand, I think. But I'm glad that you were able to curb that cycle with your own children. You are at least aware and repentant about the hurt you may have caused. (That's one area where I think Molyneux has done some good, at least.)

But as far as thinking of my parents as "evil or cruel"; I've made those rationalizations in the past in their defense (at too young an age, at that, and that was part of the problem, I learned later, being a "parentified child.") I get it, at least in my dad's case. But then, he didn't live long enough to show what he might have been. My mother, on the other hand, has shown her colors. I didn't want to believe it about her. But she IS cruel, outright cruel. And evil. I don't say that lightly. I forgave her once, as have others, but she never really apologizes, only makes excuses. And she just punishes those who forgive her. But I saw it in her eyes. Unlike you, she was NOT repentant. She is a malignant narcissist with no remorse, and hurts those who help her the most. She's not happy unless she's bringing others down. And she is an excellent actor; she can turn the tears on and off like a switch. When I finally saw through it...fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... that's the day my soul went flat-line.

I used to watch all of Stefan's videos, he's a compelling speaker. But in all honesty, I strongly oppose many of his views. I do wish the vid was still available. Knowing Stefan, I'm gonna take a wild guess that he's opposed to suicide.

The irony is that despite sharing many of his views, from an Ayn Rand/Objectivist point of view (and his crusade against child abuse is noble), I STILL oppose many of his other views (for example, his ideas on race and IQ are contra Rand). He IS compelling, I agree. But there's something off, as well. Afterwards, I found out a little more about him, and...well, I just don't trust him.

 

[GarageKarate07]

I can relate. My past abuse has left a whole inside me that I never found the strength to heal. There are moments of happiness but the blanket of pain has been to thick to throw off. I have done well so many times with awards, medals, promotions, publications, and the gift of my own small authority which I always used to help the people under me. When I was not in charge I always helped the people around me especially new people because a new place can be hard if it is not inviting. I was a good trainer. Maybe too good because most of them left for better pastures lol. But the pain inside me was always there. It eats me up now. I have lost many people because even though I put out love I am myself sad and hurt. Learning more about the past can be really painful. I think many of us here can relate to that as well. I was hurt in school and then at home for years and it left me broken for life. This is why I can't wait to go home (CTB) as my real home here only gives me pain. I have hurt my own children because I have this pain. I distanced myself so they would not see me hurt. It was not easy on me or them. I always told the truth and tried to promote encouragement though and I guess that made me look like some kind of an ass. I did provide financially which is one thing that kept me going is that small bit of help from far away. It can be hard to pick up the pieces and keep walking on a happy path. These things are not your fault. Life is so hard on the young and nobody seems to fix it while its happening. As adults we get lost and make many mistakes. This is also not your fault. Try not to think of your parents as evil or cruel. They have been hurt to and didn't know well enough to "stop the cycle". We all suffer from this. Do not take it to heart. Do not say bad things about yourself over mistakes that you feel you may have made because of this hard past. You are learning just like we all are. You have done great things. Dont forget to count those things as well. ❤. Remember that the only opinion about yourself that matters is your own. Sometimes this advice is not easy and I dont do it as often as I should either. Just because you may not be able to heal all the pain does not mean you should forget to heal and learn from some of the pain. ❤

Also this man should have much more sympathy and understanding if he has guests on his show. Instead he has scapegoated and insulted them on several occasions. He himself cried like a bitch when his own dad died. Doesn't feel so good does it? He was cruel to his guests and that is nobody's fault. That showed lack of character in such a harsh world where a friend means everything. I wish people had a way to be warned before calling in when his show was on. He is a smart guy but putting anyone down gets us nowhere. ❤

 

[watchingthewheels]

Also this man should have much more sympathy and understanding if he has guests on his show. Instead he has scapegoated and insulted them on several occasions. He himself cried like a bitch when his own dad died. Doesn't feel so good does it? He was cruel to his guests and that is nobody's fault. That showed lack of character in such a harsh world where a friend means everything. I wish people had a way to be warned before calling in when his show was on. He is a smart guy but putting anyone down gets us nowhere. ❤

This. All day, this. I thought I was calling in to a "kindred spirit", but it felt like there was another agenda going on, there.

 

[GarageKarate07]

This. All day, this. I thought I was calling in to a "kindred spirit", but it felt like there was another agenda going on, there.

I think he is on bitchute now and still is mean from time to time. Its not fair that nobody gets a warning. I posted the same on a post about BESTGOREDOTCOM. Do not post in comments they were eating people alive for any sympathy. Says a lot about the world IMO. That site is gone now.

 

[watchingthewheels]

I think he is on bitchute now and still is mean from time to time. Its not fair that nobody gets a warning. I posted the same on a post about BESTGOREDOTCOM. Do not post in comments they were eating people alive for any sympathy. Says a lot about the world IMO. That site is gone now.

He's also on Odysee. I just saw a video from him today on the topic of "getting your act together!" to a 19-year old despairing about the state of the world, because we have it so much better than people of the past, trials-and-tribulation wise. To a point, he's got a point. Again, sometimes tough love is needed. But it's his manner that rubs me wrong on it. It's too self-serving/aggrandizing...like you said, when it comes to him, "sympathy for me, but not for thee"...

SHAPE UP SON!

Despair is perhaps the greatest sin...

odysee.com

I used to watch all of Stefan's videos, he's a compelling speaker. But in all honesty, I strongly oppose many of his views. I do wish the vid was still available. Knowing Stefan, I'm gonna take a wild guess that he's opposed to suicide.

For the most part, yes. In the context of my call with him, I expected that. But his titling the video" the selfishness of suicide" was a surprise. He really didn't talk about the context of all suicides, though, but stuck to suicides of despair.

One thing I did realize about my father's suicide from my call to his show, however, was helpful and justified his stance. I am told I found my father's body. He pointed out that THAT aspect of it was, in his words, "a really shitty thing to do" to a child. And it is. This is where he did show some recognition of other contexts. If one's life is so bad, at least make it look like an accident, or do it out of the way, somewhere, but DON'T make it a spectacle, especially to one's fucking children. On that, and I may be biased here, but he's absolutely right.

 

[GarageKarate07]

He's also on Odysee. I just saw a video from him today on the topic of "getting your act together!" to a 19-year old despairing about the state of the world, because we have it so much better than people of the past, trials-and-tribulation wise. To a point, he's got a point. Again, sometimes tough love is needed. But it's his manner that rubs me wrong on it. It's too self-serving/aggrandizing...like you said, when it comes to him, "sympathy for me, but not for thee"...

SHAPE UP SON!

Despair is perhaps the greatest sin...

odysee.com

Right. Not everyone has a great childhood. I think more children suffer now because they put themselves on the web with let's say a video of thier cat and thier Pokemon and thier thing that makes them happy. All of a sudden all these mean people show up and make fun of them online and at school and cyberbully and so on. This is where despair comes from. Not feeling like you can find a connection in this real life. Despair is a natural reaction to constant pain. Hence SS for God sakes! All these nice kids here and they already want to CTB! It makes grown ups my age want to cry because we can't help them in person only online with helpful advice or an understanding of the confusion and pain and embarrassment. Why would a group of kids put down another person for posting how Happy they are? Its just sick.

 

[watchingthewheels]

Right. Not everyone has a great childhood. I think more children suffer now because they put themselves on the web with let's say a video of thier cat and thier Pokemon and thier thing that makes them happy. All of a sudden all these mean people show up and make fun of them online and at school and cyberbully and so on. This is where despair comes from. Not feeling like you can find a connection in this real life. Despair is a natural reaction to constant pain. Hence SS for God sakes! All these nice kids here and they already want to CTB! It makes grown ups my age want to cry because we can't help them in person only online with helpful advice or an understanding of the confusion and pain and embarrassment. Why would a group of kids put down another person for posting how Happy they are? Its just sick.

I think that's what Molyneux misses in his criticisms [edit: at least that particular criticism]. He seems to share that "homo economicus" view that because we have more material/scientific advancement, that we have it better and have no right to complain to the point of despair. Also promoted by Steven Pinker's THE BETTER NATURE OF OUR ANGELS. And it's not without merit. But the flipside should be considered, as well; "what profit a man to gain the world, but lose their soul?"

 

[watchingthewheels]

Something else that bugs me about Moly's view of suicide, in connection to his comparisons of the past vs. "how good we have it today"., despite the coming shitstorm geopolitically..in that latest video, he was talking about how if the people of antiquity didn't persevere and keep having kids, how we wouldn't be here today. It's a theme of his lately, urging people to have kids and families. (Ironic in itself, since he's known for advising people to break away from their abusive families, but also, his definition of abuse is pretty wide open...) He's been railing against people who were abused and don't want to bring children into the world because the world's a shitty place, and they don't want to continue the cycle of abuse in their families. While on one hand, maybe it is possible for some people to do better than their parents and stop the abuse, on the other, he's advocating for this not for the sake of the child, but for the sake of the species. He wants people to have kids to continue to fight against tyrannical governments, etc. While it's true that humanity wouldn't survive if everyone gave into despair (the >value< in humanity continuing is another topic, but for the sake of argument, let's assume it is), my problem is that his urging to have children in order to fight our battles today smacks of a kind of "indentured servitude"/slavery. Having kids for the sake of the species is counter to his former anarcho-libertarian positions, now kids are to be fighting the battles of the previous generation, instead of forging their own paths. (I'm not saying that kids should "have it easy" or not learn to persevere in the face of adversity, I'm against them being drafted into a cause not of their choosing, or suffering for someone else's agenda.) Basically, he say's it's selfish to NOT have children for the sake of the species survival. So, basically, he's saying one is obligated to bring a child into the world where they are guaranteed to suffer for the sake of others. So, of course, he's going to take an anti-suicide stance,as well. If the companies gotta keep the wage slaves working, and the government has to keep the tax slaves going, Molyneux wants us to keep breeding the cultural warriors for the species. And don't think about desertion, soldier; "back to the front..."

(I'm not going to get into a whole political discussion over his views, btw, but just focusing mainly on the issues of bringing in children to fight the future battles of society, which to me is the bigger issue beyond the particular brand/form of politics. Me, I'm sympathetic to on origin of Lao Tsu, who, surrounded by numerous endless wars in his day, walked away, climbed the mountain, and never came back down.)

 

[GarageKarate07]

Something else that bugs me about Moly's view of suicide, in connection to his comparisons of the past vs. "how good we have it today"., despite the coming shitstorm geopolitically..in that latest video, he was talking about how if the people of antiquity didn't persevere and keep having kids, how we wouldn't be here today. It's a theme of his lately, urging people to have kids and families. (Ironic in itself, since he's known for advising people to break away from their abusive families, but also, his definition of abuse is pretty wide open...) He's been railing against people who were abused and don't want to bring children into the world because the world's a shitty place, and they don't want to continue the cycle of abuse in their families. While on one hand, maybe it is possible for some people to do better than their parents and stop the abuse, on the other, he's advocating for this not for the sake of the child, but for the sake of the species. He wants people to have kids to continue to fight against tyrannical governments, etc. While it's true that humanity wouldn't survive if everyone gave into despair (the >value< in humanity continuing is another topic, but for the sake of argument, let's assume it is), my problem is that his urging to have children in order to fight our battles today smacks of a kind of "indentured servitude"/slavery. Having kids for the sake of the species is counter to his former anarcho-libertarian positions, now kids are to be fighting the battles of the previous generation, instead of forging their own paths. (I'm not saying that kids should "have it easy" or not learn to persevere in the face of adversity, I'm against them being drafted into a cause not of their choosing, or suffering for someone else's agenda.) Basically, he say's it's selfish to NOT have children for the sake of the species survival. So, basically, he's saying one is obligated to bring a child into the world where they are guaranteed to suffer for the sake of others. So, of course, he's going to take an anti-suicide stance,as well. If the companies gotta keep the wage slaves working, and the government has to keep the tax slaves going, Molyneux wants us to keep breeding the cultural warriors for the species. And don't think about desertion, soldier; "back to the front..."

(I'm not going to get into a whole political discussion over his views, btw, but just focusing mainly on the issues of bringing in children to fight the future battles of society, which to me is the bigger issue beyond the particular brand/form of politics. Me, I'm sympathetic to on origin of Lao Tsu, who, surrounded by numerous endless wars in his day, walked away, climbed the mountain, and never came back down.)

There's a lot going on with what you say. I don't think "leaving this mess" has been or will be fair to us now or children in the future. Passing that responsibility onto the next generation is a big part of the problem. There are good people who fight the government's and corporations in small battles. However the majority of the population seems to want to keep thier head down and stay home with thier vices and taxes and rat race BS lifestyle. Its common knowledge that anyone who speaks out gets alienated bullied sullied and sometimes imprisoned. When Wal-Mart workers go on strike they just shut the store down. Now we have 200+ people who are having a hard time because they spoke thier mind. There are more than enough children being born that we do not all have to keep having them. There are plenty of kids to be picked up by loving families for adoption and loved as best as they can. It's not a lack of resources here thats the problem it is the lack of freedom understanding and love. I think ditching traditional values in part or as a whole would benifit the next generations but that would be a battle in itself. Dont do anything now let the kids handle it tomorrow. Im tired and I just got up LOL. Im not very articulated right now. I agree that just walking away from the "war" is an option that should be taken up by more people. Which is what CTB in a way is all about. Hit the reset button, reboot, central alt delete. Go back to the afterlife and find another path after hopefully a long and peace and meaningful break with family and loved ones. It would be ideal anyway. Let the people who think war is useful figure it out on thier own that it's a joke within itself. It's like throwing rocks at your neighbors house because your plumbing was clogged by you. Blaming you problems on someone else as a scapegoat for your own lack of responsibility. And the record never seems to change. I say go home! Take that jump, load that pistol, make that final goodbye (as painful as it will be). The war will still be here but maybe when we come back to it (assuming reincarnation) after getting another higher perspective we might just have a better deck of cards to start over with. I think CTB forces that hard look in the mirror for the ones left behind wether they hear it on the news or see a loved one pass in person. I think CTB is good for society. Almost like forgetting to feed a fish and it dies. Now you can grow up when you get a new fish. Obviously just my own opinions and im only sharing. I try not to push my views to hard. ❤