Starvation after ketosis

[KowakuNaiNeko]

After a year or so of procrastinating my plans a, b, and c I decided to give starvation a shot because unlike other methods which require doing something it requires doing nothing - perfect for someone lazy like me.

To start I went on a carnivore diet of just steak + salt. I bought 10 originally but threw a few away when I felt like I was done. I think the diet lasted about 5-6 days and ended on valentines day. Carnivore diet was a weird experience: it's hard to tell when you're hungry, you drink a lot more water than normal, and your joints ache (supposedly a multivitamin helps with this). I ate the last steak without salt out of an abundance of caution because I don't have the ingredient list of my salt shaker but tbh it probably wasn't necessary.

Starvation:
day 1- This was the worst day because I got sick. I think maybe I undercooked my last steak. Fever, nausea, headache, stomachache. I wondered if I threw up if any food would come out but it didn't happen lol. As far as hunger goes I didn't really feel anything.
day 2- mostly over being sick. A pretty normal day.
day 3- my stomach growled once. My torso feels something like hollow or empty. I don't really know how to describe it. This feeling persists for each day forward.
day 4- similar to day 3 but my stomach growled a couple times. My joint aches made it hard to find a position to fall asleep in.
day 5- no stomach growls. I think about food every now and then and when I do I drink some water lol.

Day 6 is starting soon. 5 down only 25-55 or so to go >.<

Afterthoughts-
1- tbh I expected keto followed by starvation to kind of work but it worked better than I expected.
2- I have more energy than I expected. The original plan was to lie in bed and watch the entirety of south park but instead I can play games at my PC and save the south park idea for later down the line.
3- If I manage to follow through I'm thinking about not leaving a note. I think what happened will be fairly obvious but there is a degree of plausible deniability that maybe I got really sick or something instead.
4- Thinking about food is probably the most difficult part especially in the days ahead. Yeonmi Park said about her time hungry in north korea that when you're starving you can't think about anything other than food. I'm excited for the battle ahead.
5- I still haven't pooped out my last steak lol. I think he's along for the ride.

 

[kermudgeon]

May you find peace


Also, you should name the steak :)

 

[FuneralCry]

I wish you the best of luck in your plans.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

Update:
15 days in. Feel like I haven't lost much weight so I probably still have a long way to go (but I never weighed myself so idk).
I bought some multivitamins after the first post and it made the joint soreness go away. I decided to take about one every 5 days ish. The walk to the grocery store really winded me and my legs were tingling when I got back. Weird.
I think I haven't been drinking enough water because i've been experiencing things like dizzy spells (even while sitting), not walking straight, dry mouth, etc so i've been trying to drink more.
I don't feel any hunger but I still think about food all the time. An unintended consequence is that my youtube feed has become mostly all cooking channels lol. I had a dream that I ate some chicken rice and then when I woke up and thought about it realized that I didn't have any in my apartment.

I'll make maybe one more follow up post and then deactivate but I don't think anything is really going to change until my body switches from eating fat to eating muscle.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

Update:
Approx 60 days in non-consecutively. I broke my fast for about 2 weeks in mid march because I was going to go on a japan trip with a friend but the plans fell through. I didn't binge or anything on these 2 weeks it was a couple days of slowly bringing my digestive system back up (broths, applesauce, soups etc) then a few days of normal food, and then a few days of red meat+salt again to prep myself for starving. (I didn't get sick day 1 this time around so it was much easier)

Honestly it's taking a lot longer to starve than I originally thought. I'm at the point where I can see my cheek bones on my face and my lower ribs but I still have a lot of fat to go particularly on my upper legs. My abdomen is hard to tell how far along it is. I either have a bit of a gut or a distended stomach. I'm leaning on the latter because there is a sharp end to the bump where my underwear elastic band meets my stomach. This long timeframe is probably mostly due to me being almost completely sedentary. I moved my computer into my bedroom so I can lie in bed while I play video games because I found it taxing to sit in my chair for too long.

I've been drinking more water (probably about 1/3 gallon per day) but I still have dehydration symptoms a lot. Particularly any time I sleep my mouth is incredibly dry when I wake up. I think this is because I produce less saliva and I tend to breathe through my mouth more when I sleep.

Physiologically I've deteriorated quite a bit. I get dizzy whenever I stand or sit up even if it's just to go to the bathroom and the effect is prolonged even if I wait for my vasovagal reflex to pass. I don't always walk straight so I have to be careful and occasionally hold onto surfaces. If I try to move things or pick things up I get out of breath really easily. Luckily I haven't passed out or fallen yet but I'll have to be increasingly careful as I go further. I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to focus on video games so I think at some point I'm going to switch to binging anime/south park instead but I'm trying to put it off for as long as possible so I die before running out of things to watch.

As far as people who claim that starvation is hell it's really not (though I would agree VSED probably is). Physically my symptoms are mostly lethargy, dizziness(hypotension?), dry mouth, joint soreness(fixed with multivitamins), and inability to focus. There are no hunger pains or anything. There is a bit of a mental game but it's not too tough. I still watch a lot of food youtube videos and I definitely crave that food but I still have a bunch of applesauce in my fridge if I decide to try to bring my digestive system back and I haven't even been close once since I restarted my fast in march.

Sometimes I wonder if I didn't take my multivitamin until I got joint soreness and then ate a bunch of food what my odds would be of dying of refeeding syndrome but it's a bit risky to try when I'm already steadily on my way to a not so painful method.

Debating if I should deactivate now or stick around for another update. I'll probably decide on a whim tomorrow.

 

[Wolf-Alice]

Please continue updating. I wanted to starve to death but I'm quite pathetic and didn't even get close to doing so (especially with my parents forcing me to eat). Has anyone noticed what you're doing?

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

Please continue updating. I wanted to starve to death but I'm quite pathetic and didn't even get close to doing so (especially with my parents forcing me to eat). Has anyone noticed what you're doing?

No but I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone so the odds of people noticing are quite low. I would strongly not recommend it if you live with your parents because it will be really obvious.
My parents did randomly drop by once maybe 3-4 weeks ago and I talked to them for a couple minutes but they didn't notice.

 

[Wolf-Alice]

This is a bit like the plot of the novel My Year of Rest and Relaxation by Ottessa Moshfegh

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

I wouldn't know about any novels because unfortunately I don't know how to read :(

 

[Timothy7dff]

I hope you researched this. Human beings have survived more than 100 days without food.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

I hope you researched this. Human beings have survived more than 100 days without food.

yeah my experience seems to be similar to that. In my research the longest I found someone fasting and then recovering was 60-65 days IIRC some guy who did a hunger strike in prison. Guess I'll just have to be patient for another month or two.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

One of the things that often happens in the later stages of starvation is that the person goes blind. It may still be possible to move, though it would be very difficult. There was a case in Dublin in 2000 where four women shut themselves in their house and starved themselves to death, apparently for religious reasons. The last one to die appears to have tried to get help and was found dead near the back door, where the others were in the living room. She had not been strong enough to remove the barricades they had erected at the doors. They had left notes of their experiences, so we know roughly how long it took - at least 36 days between them starting and the last one being unable to write any longer.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

One of the things that often happens in the later stages of starvation is that the person goes blind. It may still be possible to move, though it would be very difficult. There was a case in Dublin in 2000 where four women shut themselves in their house and starved themselves to death, apparently for religious reasons. The last one to die appears to have tried to get help and was found dead near the back door, where the others were in the living room. She had not been strong enough to remove the barricades they had erected at the doors. They had left notes of their experiences, so we know roughly how long it took - at least 36 days between them starting and the last one being unable to write any longer.

hmm I can't find anything good about it like police reports just news articles :\ 36 days is crazy fast compared to my experience but maybe it's because they were older (50+ one 80+) women and maybe they were skinny idk. I was able to simply walk to the grocery store and back after almost a month without food though I did have to sit down and take a break on the way back. Due to the timeframe though I wonder if the women also stopped drinking water after a certain point because I wouldn't expect them all to die within such a short period of each other.

As far as blindness goes I think you're thinking of dehydration. It's possible to go blind from vitamin deficiencies too but I don't really expect that to happen to me considering I'm taking a multivitamin to mitigate the joint pain. I haven't researched starvation in a few months or so but what I'm expecting is to continue to weaken until I die of one of two kinds of heart failure (one painful, one not so much). I'll be the first to admit that I'm by no means medically trained or well read on the topic though so if you find anything interesting to share I'd be happy to read it.
As far as movement at the end yeah I'm wondering about how hard that will be. I have an unopened gallon of water next to my bed so that when I get close to that point I still have water to drink for a few days without getting up. I might transition to VSED once I get really close but I'd rather not because dehydration symptoms are scary.

 

[theEndCH]

Update:
Approx 60 days in non-consecutively. I broke my fast for about 2 weeks in mid march because I was going to go on a japan trip with a friend but the plans fell through. I didn't binge or anything on these 2 weeks it was a couple days of slowly bringing my digestive system back up (broths, applesauce, soups etc) then a few days of normal food, and then a few days of red meat+salt again to prep myself for starving. (I didn't get sick day 1 this time around so it was much easier)

Honestly it's taking a lot longer to starve than I originally thought. I'm at the point where I can see my cheek bones on my face and my lower ribs but I still have a lot of fat to go particularly on my upper legs. My abdomen is hard to tell how far along it is. I either have a bit of a gut or a distended stomach. I'm leaning on the latter because there is a sharp end to the bump where my underwear elastic band meets my stomach. This long timeframe is probably mostly due to me being almost completely sedentary. I moved my computer into my bedroom so I can lie in bed while I play video games because I found it taxing to sit in my chair for too long.

I've been drinking more water (probably about 1/3 gallon per day) but I still have dehydration symptoms a lot. Particularly any time I sleep my mouth is incredibly dry when I wake up. I think this is because I produce less saliva and I tend to breathe through my mouth more when I sleep.

Physiologically I've deteriorated quite a bit. I get dizzy whenever I stand or sit up even if it's just to go to the bathroom and the effect is prolonged even if I wait for my vasovagal reflex to pass. I don't always walk straight so I have to be careful and occasionally hold onto surfaces. If I try to move things or pick things up I get out of breath really easily. Luckily I haven't passed out or fallen yet but I'll have to be increasingly careful as I go further. I'm finding it increasingly more difficult to focus on video games so I think at some point I'm going to switch to binging anime/south park instead but I'm trying to put it off for as long as possible so I die before running out of things to watch.

As far as people who claim that starvation is hell it's really not (though I would agree VSED probably is). Physically my symptoms are mostly lethargy, dizziness(hypotension?), dry mouth, joint soreness(fixed with multivitamins), and inability to focus. There are no hunger pains or anything. There is a bit of a mental game but it's not too tough. I still watch a lot of food youtube videos and I definitely crave that food but I still have a bunch of applesauce in my fridge if I decide to try to bring my digestive system back and I haven't even been close once since I restarted my fast in march.

Sometimes I wonder if I didn't take my multivitamin until I got joint soreness and then ate a bunch of food what my odds would be of dying of refeeding syndrome but it's a bit risky to try when I'm already steadily on my way to a not so painful method.

Debating if I should deactivate now or stick around for another update. I'll probably decide on a whim tomorrow.

Thanks for your update, it's very interesting. I am doing VSED for two weeks now and I have similar symptoms like you.
I guess I should take the tip with the vitamins to heart. Thank you for that.

One of the things that often happens in the later stages of starvation is that the person goes blind. It may still be possible to move, though it would be very difficult. There was a case in Dublin in 2000 where four women shut themselves in their house and starved themselves to death, apparently for religious reasons. The last one to die appears to have tried to get help and was found dead near the back door, where the others were in the living room. She had not been strong enough to remove the barricades they had erected at the doors. They had left notes of their experiences, so we know roughly how long it took - at least 36 days between them starting and the last one being unable to write any longer.

In my experience until today I still can see clearly. It's difficult to say but it may happen to some humans.

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

I can say that one should not judge on how hard is it to do until he runs out of body fat. I am talking about water fasting.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

Thanks for your update. I am doing VSED for two weeks now and I have similar symptoms like you.
I guess I should take the tip with the vitamins to heart. Thank you for that.

Good luck!
For clarification to me VSED(voluntarily stopping eating and drinking) means no food or water. I call what I'm doing starvation but water fasting or VSE would also work.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

On the vision question, about 9 months into my worst eating disorder relapse I started having vision issues. I didn't go blind, it mostly just affected my ability to focus and my sensitivity to light.

 

[Timothy7dff]

I've done 20 day water fasts for health reasons. I know others have done 60 with no problems. Loren Lockman and Dr. Eric Berg have a ton of YouTube videos on fasting for health. Lockman has guided people through 60 day fasts. I'm not sure what how different fasting to death would be.

The two takeaways I would share are to SIP 8 liters of water every day and add in electrolytes. I'm not sure this extends life, but if you're taking vitamins for comfort, I'd make sure to add these two things in.

Dr. Berg's electrolyte powder is available on Ebay and really takes the sting out of fasting.

 

[lotus11]

It won't work. I've been starving myself for the last 15 years and unfortunately I am still here.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

On the vision question, about 9 months into my worst eating disorder relapse I started having vision issues. I didn't go blind, it mostly just affected my ability to focus and my sensitivity to light.

@willitpass you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the human body, do you know anything about the mechanisms behind these vision issues? Not sure if you ever experienced them yourself while ED'd. At the time I was thinking it could be some kind of vitamin deficiency but my bloodwork was clean (as you've mentioned before, the body has a way of adapting). Also interesting to note that while my focus went back to normal after refeeding, my sensitivity to light never got better.

 

[willitpass]

@willitpass you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the human body, do you know anything about the mechanisms behind these vision issues? Not sure if you ever experienced them yourself while ED'd. At the time I was thinking it could be some kind of vitamin deficiency but my bloodwork was clean (as you've mentioned before, the body has a way of adapting). Also interesting to note that while my focus went back to normal after refeeding, my sensitivity to light never got better.

It looks like the layers of the retina and potentially the macula (parts of the eye) as well as their surrounding nerves can degenerate due to malnutrition. The most common cause appears to vitamin B1 deficiency. Those cannot regenerate which would explain why you have persisting sensitivity. It can ultimately lead to blindness in extreme cases, though I'm not sure how common that is.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

I've done 20 day water fasts for health reasons. I know others have done 60 with no problems. Loren Lockman and Dr. Eric Berg have a ton of YouTube videos on fasting for health. Lockman has guided people through 60 day fasts. I'm not sure what how different fasting to death would be.

The two takeaways I would share are to SIP 8 liters of water every day and add in electrolytes. I'm not sure this extends life, but if you're taking vitamins for comfort, I'd make sure to add these two things in.

Dr. Berg's electrolyte powder is available on Ebay and really takes the sting out of fasting.

Yeah I can't drink too much water at a time so I have to constantly remind myself to drink a little bit more. I'm definitely not going to do anything close to 8 liters though. I've already pissed clear drinking much less than that. I wouldn't call it sipping but more like don't drink a whole bunch at one time because your digestive system is shut down.

I might give electrolytes a shot though. I checked my multivitamin and it has small amounts of electrolytes but the highest is only 16% DV.

@willitpass you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the human body, do you know anything about the mechanisms behind these vision issues? Not sure if you ever experienced them yourself while ED'd. At the time I was thinking it could be some kind of vitamin deficiency but my bloodwork was clean (as you've mentioned before, the body has a way of adapting). Also interesting to note that while my focus went back to normal after refeeding, my sensitivity to light never got better.

I hesitated to comment yesterday because I'm not a doctor but when I was reading yesterday it seems there are a few vitamin deficiencies that can lead to vision problems. A, B12, and zinc to name 3 more. I also saw night blindness brought up a few times but I didn't read too far into the issue because I convinced myself it probably wouldn't be a problem for me.
No idea which of these may or may not have affected you it would really have to be a question for an eye doctor and or nutritionist.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

It looks like the layers of the retina and potentially the macula (parts of the eye) as well as their surrounding nerves can degenerate due to malnutrition. The most common cause appears to vitamin B1 deficiency. Those cannot regenerate which would explain why you have persisting sensitivity. It can ultimately lead to blindness in extreme cases, though I'm not sure how common that is.

Thanks for your response, always appreciate your insights <3

 

[Neowise]

I gotta admit I admire your ambition. You've been going for two months now and you are still at it which shows your character strength! I hope everything goes well for you and if you need to vent or just talk we are always here.

 

[f1rebender]

Drinking the water is keeping you alive much longer? I remember reading that no liquid and no food is fast. I don't drink a lot of water, I'm probably already severely dehydrated so I don't know how this would go for me, it could be faster than I expect but my mom blackmails me, she's somewhat aware of my suicidal ideation but I guess not near where I actually am. she left for like 6 hours yesterday to see my brother so I considered drowning, couldn't go through with it again but this time for different reasons. there was a list of things I had to do before and at the thought I didn't have it in me to do all of that

 

[Alex Fermentopathy]

Drinking the water is keeping you alive much longer?

Yes, that's a common knowledge.

 

[Apathy79]

I've done 3 water only fasts now of 30-40 days each. Never felt anything remotely close to starving. I didn't want food when I came out. The longest one on record is way over a year. This is going to be a heck of a long process unless you're already perilously underweight.

 

[KowakuNaiNeko]

I've done 3 water only fasts now of 30-40 days each. Never felt anything remotely close to starving. I didn't want food when I came out. The longest one on record is way over a year. This is going to be a heck of a long process unless you're already perilously underweight.

Way over a year sounds pretty unrealistic. I wonder if his water fast was actually a broth fast or something. I think I'm already maybe 2/3 through my body fat.

Drinking the water is keeping you alive much longer? I remember reading that no liquid and no food is fast. I don't drink a lot of water, I'm probably already severely dehydrated so I don't know how this would go for me, it could be faster than I expect but my mom blackmails me, she's somewhat aware of my suicidal ideation but I guess not near where I actually am. she left for like 6 hours yesterday to see my brother so I considered drowning, couldn't go through with it again but this time for different reasons. there was a list of things I had to do before and at the thought I didn't have it in me to do all of that

I don't recommend trying starvation or VSED if you live with your parents because it will be extremely obvious. The general rule of thumb is starvation kills you in a few months and dehydration kills you in a few days (or sometimes upwards of 10 or so in the right conditions). The symptoms of dehydration are very unpleasant though so I'm avoiding it.

 

[willitpass]

I've done 3 water only fasts now of 30-40 days each. Never felt anything remotely close to starving. I didn't want food when I came out. The longest one on record is way over a year. This is going to be a heck of a long process unless you're already perilously underweight.

While it slightly more nuanced than this, yes it's going to take a hell of a long time for a lot of people. It is possible to die from this while being normal or even overweight due to electrolyte abnormalities, however that doesn't happen to everyone and unless you're having your levels monitored it is impossible to predict. Taking multivitamins and electrolyte supplements to keep them stable will definitely elongate the process though. And the human body has the ability to be incredibly resilient. People with anorexia last years or decades chronically, severely malnourished and underweight. Others die within months without warning.

 

[Dark Window]

I find this unbelievable.