Sonnenblume

[ctbm0de]

rest in peace Katherine

 

[DeathIsTheSolution]

What method did she use? Nitrite?

 

[Aity4883]

It's pretty surreal, knowing someone I talked with and was so close is just gone from here.
Makes you wonder which one of us will be next. Makes me wonder what it'll be like when it's my turn.

 

[MAIO]

Omg

It is curious

Especially since we had a heated discussion about the afterlife and she said there is no afterlife

Maybe she felt the need to let us know there is one?

I hope not if her brain was so fried in the afterlife that she thought the best way to communicate there is an afterlife is by sending a Panda I am screwed. She had more of a brain than me...

 

[MAIO]

It's pretty surreal, knowing someone I talked with and was so close is just gone from here.
Makes you wonder which one of us will be next. Makes me wonder what it'll be like when it's my turn.

I would bet me but I don't know you guys that wellXD

 

[Caerula]

Very selfish of me to say this, but I do wish she is around longer and I can get to know her better. All in all, I hope she found peace.

 

[FullFat]

I don't know what to say. Part of me hopes she backed out and his embarrassed about showing back up here, but I know that's hypocritical when I was brought here for the same reasons. I don't know if I can be here anymore. I have to think about this.

 

[MAIO]

I don't know what to say. Part of me hopes she backed out and his embarrassed about showing back up here, but I know that's hypocritical when I was brought here for the same reasons. I don't know if I can be here anymore. I have to think about this.

Are you saying 1) You have decided judgment is wrong and she is wrong she is better off alive or 2) You want her to be here because you enjoyed talking to her, for your benefit, against what is best for her?

 

[typx]

Rest Well. I hope you found your peace.

 

[FullFat]

Are you saying 1) You have decided judgment is wrong and she is wrong she is better off alive or 2) You want her to be here because you enjoyed talking to her, for your benefit, against what is best for her?

1. I'm not that much of an asshole.

I feel a bit like an accessory to murder right now. I don't think anybody else here is, but I feel like I could/should have done something, I guess.

 

[MAIO]

1. I'm not that much of an asshole.

I feel a bit like an accessory to murder right now. I don't think anybody else here is, but I feel like I could/should have done something, I guess.

What you just said is 1) you have decided her judgment is wrong and she would of been better of alive. Why do you think would be better off alive? Why are you against people choosing suicide?

 

[FullFat]

What you just said is 1) you have decided her judgment is wrong and she would of been better of alive. Why do you think would be better off alive? Why are you against people choosing suicide?

For the same reasons as most other people - the doubt that she couldn't have gotten better, her physical health problems aside. I can still respect that it's her choice while wondering if it was really the best decision for her.

I am not just "against people choosing suicide". I'm not new here. It's not like I'm a lifer who is trolling.

 

[MAIO]

For the same reasons as most other people - the doubt that she couldn't have gotten better, her physical health problems aside. I can still respect that it's her choice while wondering if it was really the best decision for her.

I am not just "against people choosing suicide". I'm not new here. It's not like I'm a lifer who is trolling.

She choose suicide for philosophical reasons, not because of her physical health problems. You seem to believe life is worth it for almost everyone. How did you determine that? "Yeah people have bought into the cultural paradigm that life is some unquestionable, inherent good, even when it's bad it's still worth it in the end. Ha, what a crock. People just can't look at life for what it really is, or they'll have to face facts that things aren't so great, that they themselves aren't that great and, in the end, they are screwed. And I agree, people who hardly know what planet they are on, they believe in some sky daddy or worship nature and think it is all unicorns and sunshine, have no business trying to dictate what someone else should do with their life. The only reason they get away with it is because they are the majority, a mass of morons. "-her

 

[FullFat]

She choose suicide for philosophical reasons, not because of her physical health problems. "Yeah people have bought into the cultural paradigm that life is some unquestionable, inherent good, even when it's bad it's still worth it in the end. Ha, what a crock. People just can't look at life for what it really is, or they'll have to face facts that things aren't so great, that they themselves aren't that great and, in the end, they are screwed. And I agree, people who hardly know what planet they are on, they believe in some sky daddy or worship nature and think it is all unicorns and sunshine, have no business trying to dictate what someone else should do with their life. The only reason they get away with it is because they are the majority, a mass of morons. "-her

At what point have I indicated the world is "all unicorns and sunshine"? Dragging out this quote seems to indicate you think I'm a ray of sunshine. If that's what you think, you haven't been paying attention. Also, when the hell have I ever said life is

I disagree with you and Sonneblume. Life is not inherently bad, just like it's not inherently good. We have talked about this before. Desiring suicide isn't necessarily irrational, but it is not *more* rational than living either, which is what you always seem to push. Yes, people understate their problems and slap on a happy smile even when they don't want to, but questioning their assertion that they enjoy life is just as arrogant as them questioning my assertion that I hate it.

Sonneblume had her reasons, and they're the only ones that matter, but she may have made another decision in time. We really can't know, and my anxiety won't let the idea that I helped her harm herself go.

Edit: I now see your words before you quoted Sonneblume (or maybe you added in an edit). When the hell have I ever said "life is worth it for almost everyone"? Have you even read any of my posts before? Like my posts in the "too far gone" thread??? How the fuck did you read any of what I have written and gleaned that I love life and think it's great for everybody? Or are you just wanting to put words in my mouth?

 

[MAIO]

At what point have I indicated the world is "all unicorns and sunshine"? Dragging out this quote seems to indicate you think I'm a ray of sunshine. If that's what you think, you haven't been paying attention.

I disagree with you and Sonneblume. Life is not inherently bad, just like it's not inherently good. We have talked about this before. Desiring suicide isn't necessarily irrational, but it is not *more* rational than living either, which is what you always seem to push. Yes, people understate their problems and slap on a happy smile even when they don't want to, but questioning their assertion that they enjoy life is just as arrogant as them questioning my assertion that I hate it.

Sonneblume had her reasons, and they're the only ones that matter, but she may have made another decision in time. We really can't know, and my anxiety won't let the idea that I helped her harm herself go.

My position is I am not sure whether or not life is worth continuing but it appears it's not, I do not know for sure.Which is why I don't try to encourage anyone either way. I honestly don't have enough info to determine the reality of the situation. I do not speak for Sonneblume and she was far better at words and philosophy than me, however her position was not life is inherently bad, she used a happiness/sadness ratio and thought it was many times more negative than positive. I think you are trying to make a strawman. It's obvious to me that this optimistic sunshine view of the average person is nonsense due to their view being the result of stigmatism, logical fallacies, scientific literature, history of the view, setting death = to terrible no matter what they believe it is(I think death is closest to sleep, if i thought death was a terrible obviously I would want no one to die) etc However you are trying to say you know it's worth it for most people. I am asking why you think that? I am not saying you have a sunshine view. Also If she decided to live and changed her mind later on that does not mean she made the right decision. That is actually a logical fallacy or fault in reasoning by definition. That like saying because you changed from belief from christian to Islam, Islam is the true religion. Except in this case there is much more pressure to be normal etc through whatever means. (or even more reason not to accept it)

 

[Malice1]

I don't know what to say. Part of me hopes she backed out and his embarrassed about showing back up here, but I know that's hypocritical when I was brought here for the same reasons. I don't know if I can be here anymore. I have to think about this.

Same. I'm thinking about it as well.

 

[FullFat]

My position is I am not sure whether or not life is worth continuing but it appears it's not, I do not know for sure.Which is why I don't try to encourage anyone either way. I honestly don't have enough info to determine the reality of the situation. I do not speak for Sonneblume and she was far better at words and philosophy than me, however her position was not life is inherently bad, she used a happiness/sadness ratio and thought it was many times more negative than positive. I think you are trying to make a strawman. It's obvious to me that this optimistic sunshine view of the average person is nonsense due to their view being the result of stigmatism, logical fallacies, scientific literature, history of the view, etc However you are trying to say you know it's worth it for most people. I am asking why you think that? I am not saying you have a sunshine view. Also If she decided to live and changed her mind later on that does not mean she made the right decision. That is actually a logical fallacy or fault in reasoning by definition. That like saying because you changed from belief from christian to Islam, Islam is the true religion. Except in this case there is much more pressure to be normal etc through whatever means. (or even more reason not to accept it)

I'm the one making a strawman? LOL

I'll just break down everything you're saying one by one, though I have lost hope at this point that you're not purposefully misunderstanding me.

1. "However you are trying to say you know it's worth it for most people. I am asking why you think that?" I don't know for sure, just like you don't. I'm saying life isn't inherently bad (meaning that it is not bad by DEFAULT). Because the badness/goodness ratio is 100% subjective, it's up to each person to decide. As I can't read minds, the best I can do for the non-suicidal, the majority, is to take them at their word. Besides, surely you can see the incredulity on their faces when you talk about suicide and hating life? They don't understand it because they don't hate life like we do.

2. "Also If she decided to live and changed her mind later on that does not mean she made the right decision." I never said that changing one's mind to live guarantees that their suicidal ideation was a mistake. The reverse isn't true either. It literally just means that you were conflicted about the decision and that your opinion changed over time.

in a thread you yourself replied to, I said, "For people like me, suicide isn't the only choice, but it will probably remain the best one. If I never commit suicide, it will be because I didn't muster the necessary courage; I still would have been better off prematurely dead.". I believe, like Sonmneblume evidently did, that suicide is our best choice, but we could be wrong.

3. Logical fallacy? Islam to Christianity? What? Your analogy is confusing AF, but in either case, I wasn't making that argument anyway. See #2.

 

[MAIO]

I'm the one making a strawman? LOL

I'll just break down everything you're saying one by one, though I have lost hope at this point that you're not purposefully misunderstanding me.

1. "However you are trying to say you know it's worth it for most people. I am asking why you think that?" I don't know for sure, just like you don't. I'm saying life isn't inherently bad (meaning that it is not bad by DEFAULT). Because the badness/goodness ratio is 100% subjective, it's up to each person to decide. As I can't read minds, the best I can do for the non-suicidal, the majority, is to take them at their word. Besides, surely you can see the incredulity on their faces when you talk about suicide and hating life? They don't understand it because they don't hate life like we do.

2. "Also If she decided to live and changed her mind later on that does not mean she made the right decision." I never said that changing one's mind to live guarantees that their suicidal ideation was a mistake. The reverse isn't true either. It literally just means that you were conflicted about the decision and that your opinion changed over time.

in a thread you yourself replied to, I said, "For people like me, suicide isn't the only choice, but it will probably remain the best one. If I never commit suicide, it will be because I didn't muster the necessary courage; I still would have been better off prematurely dead.". I believe, like Sonmneblume evidently did, that suicide is our best choice, but we could be wrong.

3. Logical fallacy? Islam to Christianity? What? Your analogy is confusing AF, but in either case, I wasn't making that argument anyway. See #2.

I am not trying to misunderstand you, it's a very complex emotional stigmatized topic.

1)I wish we could take the majority at their word but we intellectually can't. It's not just about how we feel about life. When the majority think about death they are not thinking about what they think death is. They are thinking about the emotional pain of losing a loved one,culture values that have been rubbed into them etc which is where that distain reaction comes from. They generally think sleep on average is better than their life yet death is a million times worse. if I had the same view on death as them i would feel similar regardless of I felt about life. Perception does not = reality. I disagree it's entirely subjective, but i agree it's up to each person to decide as we do not have significant information to determine what reality is.

2) Even if you know it's conflicted you have build in things in your brain like a desire to survive(since the entire point of life is survival and reproduction) So by default, regardless of what is best for you there should be a conflict since you have to override biological programming. However you can feel absolutely sure about something than change your mind ask any divorced couple.

If you believe suicide is her better choice why are you saying you wished she was alive?

 

[FroggMan]

@FullFat
No, please don't go. The community here is far from what has lead sonnenblume down her path. The thoughts and methods we share here are absolutely minuscule motive compared to what she, and most of us here, face/faced. These things I'm sure off. Perhaps we are part of what helped her commit. But accessory to murder? Her and the people here face strong issues, these problems we face are the accessory's to murder if there are any. Sonnenblume faced serious health issues that very likely filled her future with only increasing pain and suffering. This forum was one of the only places that could be good to her, providing information, company, and understanding.

I understand that there will be cases where these lines are not so clear. But the idea of sanctioned suicide sites is largely about the benefits of having and open forum of these topics. As long as us members are not actively and maliciously pushing people to suicide, I believe in that benefit. At least people will have the choice as well. And then in the end suicide is a persons decision to make and no one elses. Unfortunately it can only be that way. No way to know for sure how bad she felt or had it, but suicide is not a thing people do lightly. From my perspective right now it seems ridiculous that this forum played anything but a very small part in her death. Or just about anyone's for that matter.

I feel relieved for her. Maybe she could've been saved or someone in the future could of been. Anything is possible I suppose. But if you think in probabilities I feel what has happened was probably for the best. Unfortunate I know. But isn't that the harsh reality we are facing here?

 

[Phantom]

Damn. I liked seeing her here.

 

[TheStartOfEnding]

I'm very happy for her and very envious of her success.

 

[lobster]

Rest in peace, Katherine. ♡

 

[Gumby]

Rest in peace, Katherine. ♡

She was cool, informed and helpful. I will miss her.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I'm confused. Isn't she still around?

 

[lobster]

I'm confused. Isn't she still around?

No, she passed away for good on Wednesday if all went according to plan, Rain

 

[RainAndSadness]

Oh okay, thanks for the clarification. I just saw she was active on wednessday and there was no anouncment or something like that. I hope everything went according to her plan.

 

[chronicpainnomore]

No, she passed away for good on Wednesday if all went according to plan, Rain

Shit, how did I not know about this? Did she post anything about it?

 

[chronicpainnomore]

I hope she found peace. I'm curious. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned her method as being effective. What was her method?

 

[DF90]

I hope she found peace.

 

[lobster]

I hope she found peace. I'm curious. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned her method as being effective. What was her method?

Sodium nitrite