Some thoughts on opioid OD and other "recreational" drugs

[ApparentlyNot]

I'm just curious why every other post I see seems to put barbiturates, and obviously N specifically, on such a pedestal when the mode of lethality is the same as any other central nervous system depressant (opioids included), and it is infinitely harder and less realistic to obtain. The only difference to my mind is that opiates produce acute euphoria in addition to all the things barbiturates produce.

Yes, opioids can make you nauseous, but if you IV it then vomiting will not affect dosage/absorption - the drugs are already in your bloodstream and have crossed the blood-brain barrier by the time that occurs. Regardless, vomiting is not especially unpleasant while high on opioids (if you somehow manage to remain conscious and experience vomiting).

Getting heroin is extremely easy for anyone the US who is willing to simply drive to their nearest metro area with just a little bit of street smarts - I imagine it's a similar situation in Europe. You don't need a single drug connection in many US cities with open-air drug markets (shout out to Philly and Baltimore). If that sounds scary or foreign to your lifestyle, why not buy it on the dark web? - any of the famous/major drug marketplaces will have tons of reliable heroin sellers who have made thousands of sales and who have been verified by the marketplace.

Is it simply because IVing something sounds scary or complicated to non drug users?
Is it the stigma associated with these types of drugs?

Yes, opioid ODs are often easily reversible with administration of an opiate antagonist (such as Narcan) if you are found, but so is SN, and people seem to be disproportionately interested in that method on this forum... And that method induces nausea which can disrupt lethality.

Perhaps people feel unconfident regarding dosage, as they should be with something like SN (you need enough for it to be lethal, but not so much that it makes you sick and you vomit it all up) - but with IV opioids, you can just overshoot your dose like crazy with no risk that I can think of. If you do waaaay too much, you will pass out instantly, only after feeling the warm embrace of opioid induced euphoria for a half a second. Combine it with even a low to moderate dose of any other CNS depressant like benzos or alcohol and you would be extra dead.

To be clear, I am specifically advocating for IV. I've seen some posts talking about taking huge sums of prescription opioids, and that sounds like it would have a very low success rate due to the nausea/vomiting and the slow/gradual onset. But IV is instant, or within 5 seconds at the most for ALL the drugs in the syringe to kick in at once. I know it probably feels foreign and weird to people unfamiliar with "hard" drugs, but people go to much greater lengths to obtain materials and gain skills needed for other methods (me included). I feel like any other serious heroin user (active or otherwise) will back me on this sentiment.

It also seems like a great option for someone who may want their death to seem accidental. Unless you leave a note, the cops will deem your death an accidental drug OD without much thought...
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Similarly, I'm a big fan of ketamine for recreational use. I remember hearing about how a lot of accidental Ketamine related deaths were caused by individuals getting high on the drug and attempting to take a bath, then drowning. My immediate thought when I heard that was, "Yeah no shit, what kind of an idiot gets into a body of water on a dissociative?!" If you do enough ketamine to go into a K-hole, you simply WILL lose control and awareness of your body and motor functions, and the physical world will simply cease for the next 20 minutes at least. You would sink into the bath and drown while tripping out in another world entirely, completely unaware of any hypercapnic response (that feeling of suffocating). I was thinking maybe next time I do some K, I wouldn't necessarily even commit to CTB, but I could just get in the bath, snort like 80-250mg of K (depending on potency), and I would, in all likelihood, be dead before I could leave the K-hole, and I wouldn't even have to mentally commit to CTB. It could just be a casual sort of thing that ends up killing me, or not.

What a rant... sorry. I'm just trying to reason my way through all the common and viable options to CTB for myself. Up until now, I have always considered inert gas asphyxiation to be the best option for me. But it feels complicated, and I'm wondering why I don't just turn to my ol' friend Heroin. Plus, I'd love to be able to experience a good emotion one more time before I die, even if it's just for half a second.

 

[saddestbunny]

i think for many it's stigma yea, needles sound scary and gross to people that dont have experience

for me im gonna do exactly as you said, opiate overdose :P

for someone who has never done opiates before I imagine that might actually interrupt their process / plans if they tried less than the lethal amount, and then felt better for a while. i originally got into substances cause i felt suicidal and wanted to die but ended up getting addicted for a long time

 

[ApparentlyNot]

i think for many it's stigma yea, needles sound scary and gross to people that dont have experience

for me im gonna do exactly as you said, opiate overdose :P

for someone who has never done opiates before I imagine that might actually interrupt their process / plans if they tried less than the lethal amount, and then felt better for a while. i originally got into substances cause i felt suicidal and wanted to die but ended up getting addicted for a long time

True, experiencing a dope rush might make a lot of suicidal people confused. If I had to describe the feeling of opioids in one word, I would use "relief." Physical, mental, emotional, all of it. And I think, ultimately, that's what most of us on this forum are seeking... However, as you and I know very well, the relief induced by opioids is a wolf in sheep's clothing and will only lead to significantly greater suffering. Thanks for responding homie, if you're clean now I'm super happy for you!

 

[saddestbunny]

True, experiencing a dope rush might make a lot of suicidal people confused. If I had to describe the feeling of opioids in one word, I would use "relief." Physical, mental, emotional, all of it. And I think, ultimately, that's what most of us on this forum are seeking... However, as you and I know very well, the relief induced by opioids is a wolf in sheep's clothing and will only lead to significantly greater suffering. Thanks for responding homie, if you're clean now I'm super happy for you!

absolutely, and thank u. absolutely agree, i'm hesitant to say it 'helped' but it did give me relief for a really long time. i wish i could feel like that always honestly but you're right that it just makes everything worse in the end. im pretty much clean now :)

 

[dogtired]

Glad you posted this as I was just thinking about this, wondering why opiate ODs aren't a more talked about suicide method. Coincidentally I'm on heroin right now (recently relapsed after 3 years clean) and plan to IV overdose when I'm ready to CTB. My only hesitation is that the peaceful pill handbook advises against injecting opioids to CTB, saying you're likely to lose consciousness before you can inject the full dose. My injecting experience doesn't align with that though - I don't start to feel the high til a few seconds after I've injected it all so I think I should be fine on that front. Plus the number of accidental opioid deaths especially among IV users suggests it's v easy to die this way even if you don't mean to. Seems like a solid method to me, can't see any problems with it. Definitely the way to go for me. Will be peaceful.

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

Not once living in London have I ever found a place to buy heroin. And buying on the DN has been very unfruitful. Every last thing I've bought has had god awful strength. Weed has been dismal, MDMA have all been duds. I hold no hope that heroin would be any different. It just doesn't seem like an option. Fuck the government

 

[dogtired]

Getting heroin is extremely easy for anyone the US who is willing to simply drive to their nearest metro area with just a little bit of street smarts - I imagine it's a similar situation in Europe.

And yep, I'm in the UK and moved to a new city since I was last in active addiction so had no connections here - when I decided to relapse all I had to do was approach some people outside a liquor store who looked like the drug using type, offer them a cigarette and ask if they had a plug. 20 mins and £10 later I had what I needed. Dead easy and accessible to anyone with basic street smarts.

 

[HopefulSleep]

but if you IV it then vomiting will not affect dosage/absorption

How should someone without experience iv properly?
I am obese and can't really see my veins I think I would miss without trying it multiple times first but that already sounds disgusting to train hitting my vein.
Also I planned to overdose with iv heroin in the past but I couldn't get multiple grams dissolved in the amount of water I could fit on a spoon it was a thick mass and wasn't injectable and I wasted 200+€ and it is so much fingerwork to prepare an injectable solution for me it just makes me enormously angry.

Btw what do you think about overdosing on boofing opioids?

heroin

You can get much stronger opioids on darknet like protonitazene it is also water soluble and it is as strong as fentanyl.

if you are found

I overdosed on snorting heroin some years ago and I survived cause of loud breathing but I don't know if iv'ing would be quiet.

but so is SN

The advantage of sn is that it should kill you much faster afaik.

To be clear, I am specifically advocating for IV. I've seen some posts talking about taking huge sums of prescription opioids

You can inject prescription opioids but seems to be hard I have no idea on how to do that.

I remember hearing about how a lot of accidental Ketamine related deaths were caused by individuals getting high on the drug and attempting to take a bath, then drowning.

I don't understand how that works, how do you have to position yourself to slip in a bath?

 

[FormerlyFe(IV)]

I agree. An opioid overdose would be the ideal way to go probably.

and obviously N specifically, on such a pedestal when the mode of lethality is the same as any other central nervous system depressant (opioids included)

Both are CNS depressants, but to be specific and pedantic, they work differently. Barbiturates, benzos, alcohol and muscle relaxers are all GABAergic, they target the GABA receptors. Opioids, well, it's in the name - they target μ-opioid receptors.

Getting heroin is extremely easy for anyone the US who is willing to simply drive to their nearest metro area with just a little bit of street smarts

Not really. Just look at the DrugsData website. There is so much shit sold as H or Dope that is either Fent or Fent with Xylazine. Shit is depressing.

If that sounds scary or foreign to your lifestyle, why not buy it on the dark web

From what I understand many users here seem to be underage or at sharing their living quarters with family. Sourcing anything can be a hassle, and getting the family caught with darkweb drugs is a

Also, heroin availability varies from region to region. Brazil doesn't really have any Meth or Heroin in our drug culture of note, really. Most of the opiates here are diverted from legit pharmacies it seems. Which is a whole different hassle.

You can get much stronger opioids on darknet like protonitazene it is also water soluble and it is as strong as fentanyl.

Not all opioids are made equal. Fent is more sedating and less euphoric than H for example. Playing with RCs (research chemicals) can be risky. Try at least double checking at sites like Erowid to make sure before your purchase. That particular RC you mentioned seems to be okay.

 

[ApparentlyNot]

How should someone without experience iv properly?
I am obese and can't really see my veins I think I would miss without trying it multiple times first but that already sounds disgusting to train hitting my vein.
Also I planned to overdose with iv heroin in the past but I couldn't get multiple grams dissolved in the amount of water I could fit on a spoon it was a thick mass and wasn't injectable and I wasted 200+€ and it is so much fingerwork to prepare an injectable solution for me it just makes me enormously angry.

Btw what do you think about overdosing on boofing opioids?

You can get much stronger opioids on darknet like protonitazene it is also water soluble and it is as strong as fentanyl.

I overdosed on snorting heroin some years ago and I survived cause of loud breathing but I don't know if iv'ing would be quiet.

The advantage of sn is that it should kill you much faster afaik.

You can inject prescription opioids but seems to be hard I have no idea on how to do that.

I don't understand how that works, how do you have to position yourself to slip in a bath?

"How should someone without experience iv properly?"
I feel weird actually giving you instructions on how to shoot up but here goes. I do not have experience IVing someone who is obese to the point where I can't feel or see their veins, but I'll try to describe this anyway. To give you a little hope, phlebotomists hit veins of even individuals who are upwards of 800lbs (as shown by all those exploitative TV shows like "My 800lbs Life" or whatever they are called.) So we know it's possible right? I do not know if they need a special syringe or tools.

For most people shooting up or drawing blood, whether you're in a hospital or in a suspicious alley, you will you use your median cubital vein. It is the most prominent vein in the crook of your arm. Veins in the hands and feet and legs are for the people that have already destroyed their median cubital vein in one way or another.

Use a tourniquet to help increase bloodflow to the arm and help the vein become more prominent. If you still cannot see it, feel around for it physically. This is how both addicts and nurses find the vein when it is not visible. That, and memory. Feeling for it, instead of seeing it, sounds way more difficult than it is. If you feel it, stick in the needle, you will be shocked how likely it is that you hit the vein - especially If the needle is perfectly new and you have no scar tissue there, which will both be true for you. I cannot see your body specifically, but I imagine that a significant portion of your fat is not stored in this location so it may actually be possible to see your vein there? Let me know.

I know it sounds silly, but you could practice with just water to learn to do it. And if you really want detailed instructions I'd use a video. You will use clean, disinfected, and new EVERYTHING. Yes, even when you're trying to CTB!

Get yourself a pack of syringes. There are lots of different kinds, and I can talk you through that if you really want me to - but there are really only three things that differ between them: the length of the needle itself (you might want a longer one if you have fat tissue to go through), the thickness or gauge of the needle, and the capacity of the syringe. Back when I was an active addict, I was simply able to go to my local drugstore and buy a pack of syringes in my state in the USA, but I think that may be illegal now. However, there are harm prevention organizations now in every major city that hand out free, new syringes to anyone and everyone.

You will prepare your solution of drugs, with the goal of having the largest ratio of drugs to water possible so that it is still soluble. You want to use as little liquid as possible so that way you can inject it all within a second. You'll suck it up into the syringe, then spray that into a small container (like a bottle cap or something) with your drugs and physically mix it up. This is obviously only for water soluble drugs. You will use a filter of some sort (most dopeheads just use a little bit of clean cotton from a q-tip or something where I'm from) - stick it in the solution, then suck up the solution with the needle - through the filter - you don't want anything that hasn't dissolved in there or any random particles of dust or something! It could clog the needle.

You will find the vein. Either visibly or by feeling around in the crook of your arm. Perhaps by using a tourniquet or raising the blood pressure in other ways such as pumping your fist or through physical exercise. Then you will stick it in at like a 30-45 degree angle. You will pull back the syringe as soon as it enters your skin (not the vein necessarily), which will create a vacuum in the syringe along with it's liquid contents. Then you will push the needle in further very very slowly toward where you guess the vein is. You may need to let the needle go and physically feel for it. Veins can roll and move, although this usually wont happen with a brand new needle. If anything feels notably painful, stop, that's not the vein and you've gone too far!

When you hit the vein, blood will fill the vacuum and your solution will mix with your blood. If the blood does not quickly fill the vacuum, or the blood is sputtering in irregularly, you probably found it, but are not all the way in - so verify it again. You can always pull the plug of the syringe back a little bit more to create more space if you're not sure if you lost the vein - it should fill with blood. Then, simply hold the base of the syringe still with your hand while using one finger to press the plug. If you were using a tourniquet, try to remove it as soon as you pull the syringe out - but if you can't, no worries, it'll just take an extra half a second to hit your brain. Bam, that's how you do drugs kids.
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"You can get much stronger opioids on darknet like protonitazene it is also water soluble and it is as strong as fentanyl."

Yeah no doubt, valid point. I mean, as long as it's water soluble, that would be better I guess than heroin specifically. But honestly, everytime I hear this argument I think people are really underestimating heroin. They just got so desensitized to it after hearing so much about Fentanyl I think. As long as the dosage is right, you're good. If you have no tolerance, and go buy 100$ worth of whatever they are selling as "heroin" nowadays, it simply will be enough so who cares?
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About breathing loud, I'm not sure it would help. Usually when one ODs on a CNS depressant, their breathing becomes almost imperceptible. Perhaps just putting on some white noise on a speaker or making sure no one is home is the best way around that?
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And you're right, you can inject some prescription opioids. I guess I should have specified that my gripe was with the oral administration. I wouldn't inject anything except percs or a dilauded. Those are fine, but Oxys are time release now, and require doing some legit chemistry first. And extracting the Fentanyl from patches is something I've never done but sounds annoying.
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"Btw what do you think about overdosing on boofing opioids?"

I've never actually boofed anything (I know, I haven't lived yet!), but the bioavailabilty up there seems to be the highest and the onset the quickest outside of IV, so it seems like a better option than snorting alone. Perhaps combining these methods of administration would be something to consider? I personally feel scared of anything that's not IV, because part of the appeal for me is losing consciousness within 10 seconds. And I feel scared recommending that to you. I don't want you to just deprive your brain of oxygen during a non-lethal OD.
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"I don't understand how that works, how do you have to position yourself to slip in a bath?"

Maybe it'd be different if you are very tall, but I'm only 5'4". For me, when I sit in my bath, to sit up, I need to have my legs stretched out in front of me, pressing against one of the walls or I will just slide down. This is not something I would be able to do in a K-Hole; to use muscles in my legs, no matter how easy, to do anything - I wont even remember what legs are at that point. I would maybe just slip down and start breathing in the water without knowing I was doing it or that it wasn't air. Not saying it's fool proof or a serious way to plan to CTB, but it's extremely dangerous, and I was thinking it could be a sort of "passive" way to CTB without triggering my SI.

Sorry I wrote you a whole ass novel

Both are CNS depressants, but to be specific and pedantic, they work differently. Barbiturates, benzos, alcohol and muscle relaxers are all GABAergic, they target the GABA receptors. Opioids, well, it's in the name - they target μ-opioid receptors.

Yes, absolutely, benzos, alcohol, and barbs are are GABAergic drugs, and opioids are, well OPIOID agonists as you said lol! I was just referring specifically to the way they can kill you. The GABA receptor causes a major suppression of the CNS which is what causes death. The same can be said about opioids. I said "the mode of lethality is the same," that's all I meant, I didn't mean to imply they have the same general effects on the body or produce the same effects.

 

[FormerlyFe(IV)]

I didn't mean to imply they have the same general effects on the body or produce the same effects.

I know. I just try to be extra careful on these forums because the level of understanding of drugs can vary wildly from user to user. I personally understood you but maybe someone could construe that H and alcohol are comparable in effects.

 

[SoftWorries]

I've got opiates in my drawer for just this reason. I'm not actually sure why it isn't more popular. It was simple to get online.

 

[toofargone6969]

I wanted to do this method but I would have to practice first with saline but all the saline online is for wound irritation not injecting so it's not safe to inject and pure water is also dangerous so I sadly gave up on this method. It would be much nicer then SN but it's very intimidating for someone whose never injected before. Seems like a lot can go wrong and its rather tricky to get right especially your first time

 

[ApparentlyNot]

I wanted to do this method but I would have to practice first with saline but all the saline online is for wound irritation not injecting so it's not safe to inject and pure water is also dangerous so I sadly gave up on this method. It would be much nicer then SN but it's very intimidating for someone whose never injected before. Seems like a lot can go wrong and its rather tricky to get right especially your first time

You really helped me understand the aversion to this method. As someone from the US, who is experienced with both the feeling of opioids and with IV drug use, I realize that my comfortability with this method is not something I should expect of others. In the same way I get caught up on (probably) unimportant specifics associated with other methods, I can expect that from people like you. It's important and it's new to you, you want to get it right.

Now, thousands and thousands of IV drug users shoot up using water as their solvent multiple times and day, every day, for years and years - tap water, bottled water, puddle water, toilet water - hell my friend even shot up using poweraide once because he had no access to water and was extremely sick. Crack heads shoot up every 15 minutes or so using fucking lemon juice and vitamin c tablets for god's sake! Of course, that doesn't mean it's safe - that's just all anecdotal evidence.

The dangers associated with using water to IV are generally associated with large amounts of water, like, a liter or more, or with contaminated water - the best type of water to use would be distilled, but you are absolutely right in your point that saline is what you are supposed to use. However, water is currently used as a solvent for injectable solutions in medical settings when the solution is less than 100mL (which, in this case, will be true, by a lot), and it's even used at higher volumes than that as long as the medical professional is aware and they take precautions against haemolysis.

There are risks of using contaminated water, especially something with any type of suspended particle(s) - which is why using distilled water is the gold standard, but is realistically unnecessary.

Additionally, with this method, you will be rendered unconscious within a minute at the very most - you will, in all likelihood, be rendered unconscious within 2 seconds of injecting the solution. You will stay asleep until your heart depresses to the point of hypoxia and you will die.

But I completely agree with and support your inclination to practice. You don't want to waste your money or risk missing the vein (which will slow and lower absorption - I am not sure to what degree and if this would result in a failed attempt to CTB or not). Once you mix the drug with the water, that is the point of no return - you either gotta use them or they will go to waste.

But in regards to your sentiment that "a lot can go wrong" I would generally disagree. If you have learned to shoot up with practice, and have succeeded even once, I'd say your chances of failure with a new needle are very low. Getting scared and chickening out is probably the most significant risk associated with lack of experience I'd say. Perhaps taking a low to moderate dose of a benzo would help ease nerves, and additionally, potentiate the opioid's depression of the CNS. I don't know if you saw my other post about how exactly to shoot up, but if you see blood shoot into the syringe, you 100% have hit the vein, and you can verify that you have the vein as many times as you need to feel comfortable (up until a point - I guess the syringe still has a max capacity).

Again, you can overshoot the dosage with no risk. You can verify your drug IS the opioid in question with a drug test you can get at home (you won't need to send it out to a lab or anything crazy like with uncommon, non-recreational drugs) or, less legitimately, by simply doing a little bit of it and checking if it gets you high in the predicted way. If you fail by undershooting the dosage (which really should not happen, as, again, if you have no tolerance you can just overshoot like crazy with no downside), you'll typically just wake up.

The only annoying thing would be if you missed the vein entirely because you were nervous and managed to move the needle significantly during the half a second between when you verify you "have" the vein and when you push the plunger down - injecting it into tissue - but even that is just "annoying" - it's not the end of the world - it may still result in a successful attempt, but the onset will be significantly slower and the absorption less. If the extremely quick onset is very important to you and you want to abort the attempt after missing, you can keep Narcan handy and dose yourself before the opioids even kick in (this is very obviously not an option if you successfully IV) - there will be slim to no side effects from using Narcan if you are not physically addicted to opioids. You may be really high though and throw up. If you miss completely and survive, you'll just have to keep an eye on the area you injected the solution into to make sure you don't develop an abscess within the next few weeks - I've never developed an abscess in all my years of shooting up, but some people are more prone to them than others, so just keep an eye out.

 

[soontobedone]

How much protonitazene does it take? A lab sells it for $91 a mg. Lol

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

Glad you posted this as I was just thinking about this, wondering why opiate ODs aren't a more talked about suicide method. Coincidentally I'm on heroin right now (recently relapsed after 3 years clean) and plan to IV overdose when I'm ready to CTB. My only hesitation is that the peaceful pill handbook advises against injecting opioids to CTB, saying you're likely to lose consciousness before you can inject the full dose. My injecting experience doesn't align with that though - I don't start to feel the high til a few seconds after I've injected it all so I think I should be fine on that front. Plus the number of accidental opioid deaths especially among IV users suggests it's v easy to die this way even if you don't mean to. Seems like a solid method to me, can't see any problems with it. Definitely the way to go for me. Will be peaceful.

so via which method is recommended to take the heroin for OD? im also interested in ctb via this.

 

[saddestbunny]

so via which method is recommended to take the heroin for OD? im also interested in ctb via this.

IV will be your best bet

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

IV will be your best bet

but they said the peaceful handbook whatever advised against that as they would be unconscious before they take enough.

 

[saddestbunny]

but they said the peaceful handbook whatever advised against that as they would be unconscious before they take enough.

doubt it I accidentally OD'd before but maybe it's cause of my height and weight, I guess I will make sure to figure out a mechanism that depresses the plunger all the way even if I pass out

 

[ApparentlyNot]

so via which method is recommended to take the heroin for OD? im also interested in ctb via this.

I mean I, and I think we (as in myself and the other experienced opioid users who have commented) are all advocating for IV despite what the PPHB has said. If I didn't know any better I'd be like "ok fuck that, I'm not listening to some junkie online over the PPHB" but seriously, the concerns they raise sound a bit laughable to me. If your shit is so stronk that you lose consciousness before you can even finish injecting it (which should take about 1 second total), then that's definitely an OD already (ODs not necessarily lethal by definition to be clear). If you follow the advice to use as little water as possible, a highly concentrated solution, and don't intentionally inject it very slowly, this is extremely unlikely. This could happen I guess if you really didn't know what you were doing, used a large capacity syringe and a lot of water. But you should probably only have 10-30cc of water in the syringe. Injecting it all will take like a millisecond.

Edit: Also, something to help reduce the chances of this occurring (injecting half of it and losing consciousness) would be using a tourniquet, which will block bloodflow to the brain long enough to postpone the onset by a few seconds or perhaps up to a minute even, which should give you ample time to finish pressing your thumb down about an inch or two.

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

I mean I, and I think we (as in myself and the other experienced opioid users who have commented) are all advocating for IV despite what the PPHB has said. If I didn't know any better I'd be like "ok fuck that, I'm not listening to some junkie online over the PPHB" but seriously, the concerns they raise sound a bit laughable to me. If your shit is so stronk that you lose consciousness before you can even finish injecting it (which should take about 1 second total), then that's definitely an OD already (ODs not necessarily lethal by definition to be clear). If you follow the advice to use as little water as possible, a highly concentrated solution, and don't intentionally inject it very slowly, this is extremely unlikely. This could happen I guess if you really didn't know what you were doing, used a large capacity syringe and a lot of water. But you should probably only have 10-30cc of water in the syringe. Injecting it all will talk like a millisecond.

thank you.

 

[dogtired]

but they said the peaceful handbook whatever advised against that as they would be unconscious before they take enough.

IV is still the best method imo, I don't necessarily agree with what the PPH says about it bc fatal IV heroin overdoses are so common and wouldn't be if it wasn't possible to OD this way. I was just sharing what the handbook said bc it confused me a bit why they'd say that. I'm sure there is a small risk of passing out before you inject it all but if you use the smallest possible amount of water so you can inject it all in a second it will be fine. Plus even if you do pass out before it's all injected, if it's strong enough to knock you out that quickly you're likely to have still had a lethal dose.

I mean I, and I think we (as in myself and the other experienced opioid users who have commented) are all advocating for IV despite what the PPHB has said. If I didn't know any better I'd be like "ok fuck that, I'm not listening to some junkie online over the PPHB" but seriously, the concerns they raise sound a bit laughable to me. If your shit is so stronk that you lose consciousness before you can even finish injecting it (which should take about 1 second total), then that's definitely an OD already (ODs not necessarily lethal by definition to be clear). If you follow the advice to use as little water as possible, a highly concentrated solution, and don't intentionally inject it very slowly, this is extremely unlikely. This could happen I guess if you really didn't know what you were doing, used a large capacity syringe and a lot of water. But you should probably only have 10-30cc of water in the syringe. Injecting it all will take like a millisecond.

Edit: Also, something to help reduce the chances of this occurring (injecting half of it and losing consciousness) would be using a tourniquet, which will block bloodflow to the brain long enough to postpone the onset by a few seconds or perhaps up to a minute even, which should give you ample time to finish pressing your thumb down about an inch or two.

Sorry if my comment seems like a copy of yours, missed it bc was typing mine when you posted it but yeah same thoughts. Can't see any realistic risk of not being able to inject a full lethal dose. Tourniquet idea is a good failsafe too.

 

[HopefulSleep]

I do not have experience IVing someone who is obese to the point where I can't feel or see their veins

I am not extremely obese but I just can't find my veins for some reason even when I put a rope around my arm and pull it so that it restricts blood flow.

you will you use your median cubital vein

I can see it on my right arm but not good.

I know it sounds silly, but you could practice with just water to learn to do it.

I would need sterile water then.
Besides that it already sounds very intriguing to me to practice sticking a needle in my vein I am very sensitive and I am scared of needles.

I think if I could numb the physical discomfort of injecting before it it would be much easier, what drug do you think would be best for that in which dosage?
I don't have physical pain so I don't know anything about which drug blocks this the best but I assume any opioid with other roa would help but then I am afraid I would be too numb to iv.

Get yourself a pack of syringes. There are lots of different kinds, and I can talk you through that if you really want me to - but there are really only three things that differ between them: the length of the needle itself (you might want a longer one if you have fat tissue to go through), the thickness or gauge of the needle, and the capacity of the syringe. Back when I was an active addict, I was simply able to go to my local drugstore and buy a pack of syringes in my state in the USA, but I think that may be illegal now. However, there are harm prevention organizations now in every major city that hand out free, new syringes to anyone and everyone.

The practicing is one of the biggest problems, I don't live alone and it would be annying to hide all the stuff all the time.

You will prepare your solution of drugs, with the goal of having the largest ratio of drugs to water possible so that it is still soluble.

This is the most complicated part for me the preperation.
How much citric acid should I use exactly?

How can I dissolve multiple grams in such low quantities of water that can fit in a syringe?
It didn't work for me.

Do you know anything better to cook it in than a spoon?
It makes me angry to keep holding it and that the place you can cook on it is so tiny and that some of the solution can drop of.

How long should I heat it?

You want to use as little liquid as possible so that way you can inject it all within a second.

This also seems like a problem, not being able to inject everything cause the effect starts so fast.
Can you just push the plunger down really fast or could that damage the vein?

You'll suck it up into the syringe, then spray that into a small container

I don't understand this step, is that for putting the sterile water in a spoon or whatever?

stick it in the solution, then suck up the solution with the needle - through the filter

Should I do it in the filter with or without the needle?
When I did it with the needle it hit the bottom of the spoon and damaged the needle cause I am an idiot.

You will pull back the syringe as soon as it enters your skin (not the vein necessarily)

Why not when it is in the vein, why before?

If anything feels notably painful, stop, that's not the vein and you've gone too far!

This already sounds disgusting doing something wrong and having extreme mental pain cause I am too dumb to iv.

if you lost the vein

That also seems like a big risk, doing something wrong, missing the vein and having a much lower effect then this could have a bad outcome cause it wouldn't be strong enough to successfully kill you.

Yeah no doubt, valid point. I mean, as long as it's water soluble, that would be better I guess than heroin specifically. But honestly, everytime I hear this argument I think people are really underestimating heroin. They just got so desensitized to it after hearing so much about Fentanyl I think. As long as the dosage is right, you're good. If you have no tolerance, and go buy 100$ worth of whatever they are selling as "heroin" nowadays, it simply will be enough so who cares?

If there is no exact dosage guide for suicide why not going overkill?

About breathing loud, I'm not sure it would help. Usually when one ODs on a CNS depressant, their breathing becomes almost imperceptible. Perhaps just putting on some white noise on a speaker or making sure no one is home is the best way around that?

Maybe I had that cause I snorted it and I am pretty sure the heroin was very crap quality I got it from an online dealer as a promotion for 5€ 1g I think.
So you think overdosing on iv would be quiet?

Maybe it'd be different if you are very tall, but I'm only 5'4". For me, when I sit in my bath, to sit up, I need to have my legs stretched out in front of me, pressing against one of the walls or I will just slide down. This is not something I would be able to do in a K-Hole; to use muscles in my legs, no matter how easy, to do anything - I wont even remember what legs are at that point. I would maybe just slip down and start breathing in the water without knowing I was doing it or that it wasn't air. Not saying it's fool proof or a serious way to plan to CTB, but it's extremely dangerous, and I was thinking it could be a sort of "passive" way to CTB without triggering my SI.

My bath is small and I am tall but maybe it would work if I position myself so that I hold myself over the bath and fall in once I can't hold myself anymore.
I am currently looking into swb and will choose that method over sn if I can get it to work, just hyperventilating and then sticking my head in water.
If swb doesn't work I will still choose sn over opioid od it seems better in my situation I have no money and I am tired of practicing stuff just to die.

Yes, absolutely, benzos, alcohol, and barbs are are GABAergic drugs, and opioids are, well OPIOID agonists as you said lol! I was just referring specifically to the way they can kill you. The GABA receptor causes a major suppression of the CNS which is what causes death. The same can be said about opioids. I said "the mode of lethality is the same," that's all I meant, I didn't mean to imply they have the same general effects on the body or produce the same effects.

Dying on opioids sounds like the best death if I would live alone and wouldn't be scared, I would like to die with opioid euphoria, nodding of forever sounds fun.

Btw something else, do you think increasing the opioid dosage would be better or adding a water soluble benzo in the mix like pyrazolam?

How much protonitazene does it take?

It is as strong as fentanyl circa for dosage calculation.

A lab sells it for $91 a mg. Lol

On darknet markets you can get like one gram for 140€ if I remember correctly and even if it is very cut it should be stronger than heroin.
I can pm you the source if you want.

I guess I will make sure to figure out a mechanism that depresses the plunger all the way even if I pass out

I think something like that exists that pushes the plunger down someone mentioned to me that this is needed for propofol od.

Also, something to help reduce the chances of this occurring (injecting half of it and losing consciousness) would be using a tourniquet, which will block bloodflow to the brain long enough to postpone the onset by a few seconds or perhaps up to a minute even, which should give you ample time to finish pressing your thumb down about an inch or two.

I don't understand this, so as long as you have the tourniquet tightly the effects won't start?

 

[ApparentlyNot]

but I just can't find my veins for some reason even when I put a rope around my arm and pull it so that it restricts blood flow

Just as some advice to help, when using trying to restrict blood flow to the median cubital vein specifically, it is important specifically to block of the inner part of the upper arm - that is where the vein is located up there. If you ever see someone shooting up and they don't have something to "tie off" with, they may take any ol' object, like a tee shirt rolled up or a soda can etc., and simply hold it in between their ribcage/torso and inner arm to cut off flow to the median cubital vein specifically.

I would need sterile water then.

Yeah ideally. You should use distilled water, which is something you can get at the grocery store and doesn't look any more suspicious than buying any other type of water.

Besides that it already sounds very intriguing to me to practice sticking a needle in my vein I am very sensitive and I am scared of needles.

I think if I could numb the physical discomfort of injecting before it it would be much easier, what drug do you think would be best for that in which dosage?
I don't have physical pain so I don't know anything about which drug blocks this the best but I assume any opioid with other roa would help but then I am afraid I would be too numb to iv.

Do you mean intimidating? If you are very scared of needles and this is a serious fear or even phobia for you, maybe this isn't the best option. Boofing, snorting, and oral admin are still options for you.

If you are really worried about the pain of using a needle, I think it's important to get a higher gauge needle, mostly for psychological reasons. To be honest though, it generally produces no pain at all so it's hard for me to recommend a drug/medication to address it. The needle will typically not go more than a centimeter into the skin - this is not like a shot that has to go inches down. The vein itself is located close to the skin's surface. Entering the vein itself will not produce pain as there are no nerves in or directly around it. (To be clear, there are nerves all over the crook of the arm, so don't go digging around in there, I'm just talking about the vein itself and the skin's surface.)

I don't typically find the pain relief associated with opioids to be "numbing" per se - they will not make you unable to feel physical sensation at a recreational dose, they block pain receptors. It is not like the numbing effect experienced with local anesthetics. You'll be able to feel the needle and feel your veins still. Taking a "normal" dose of an opiate before injecting could help with the pain, but if I'm being honest, I think most of the help is psychological.

I wouldn't really recommend anything in particular, because either I find them to be ineffective for this type of pain/discomfort (like in the case of opioids), OR they are too effective at treating this kind of pain/discomfort and will make it too difficult for you to feel what's going on (in the case of a numbing local anesthetic and in the case of dissociates).

The practicing is one of the biggest problems, I don't live alone and it would be annying to hide all the stuff all the time.

Valid, if you don't have your own space and privacy, that could be a real issue. And if they do find it, they will assume you are using IV drugs and that will create even more issues for you. You can't exactly say "No! I'm not on drugs! I was just practicing to CTB!" However, most heroin addicts just go to the bathroom or lock their door and hide their stuff somewhere. Unless you have people actively searching and going through your stuff, I don't see why that isn't viable. I don't know your living situation. Do you have your own room? Is someone else home at all times? You don't have to answer, it's just stuff to consider.

This is the most complicated part for me the preperation.
How much citric acid should I use exactly?

How can I dissolve multiple grams in such low quantities of water that can fit in a syringe?
It didn't work for me.

Do you know anything better to cook it in than a spoon?
It makes me angry to keep holding it and that the place you can cook on it is so tiny and that some of the solution can drop of.

How long should I heat it?

Woah woah woah woah. We are using water soluble heroin here. There is no citric acid involved. What did you look up - how to shoot up crack cocaine? White china heroin is soluble in water at room temperature. There will be no heating of spoons. Brown heroin (powder - we are not talking about black tar here) is also soluble at room temp in water - but I have no experience with that, and if you're gonna go out of your way to source heroin, get the good shit. White powder heroin.

My man, "multiple grams" - look I know I told you there was no risk to overshooting it, but you are reaaaaallly overshooting it as someone who has never done opiates before in their life. Two grams of white china heroin is enough to kill me like 10 times over. If you have a white powder and have tested it and confirmed it to be heroin or, hell, any relatively powerful opioid, and you even come close to the point of max solubility in even just 20ccs of water then you, most definitely, have enough. A "bag" of dope where I am from is roughly 5-20mg and new users frequently overdose on this "standard" dosage. I am from an area with the best heroin in the US though. You could theoretically heat the solution to increase solubility but that is unnecessary, and it is generally frowned upon to heat china white ever, because if you need to heat it, it's cut, not heroin. Sadly I can't help all that much with dosage, because where I am from, we actually don't sell heroin by mass, we sell it in "bags" which don't even have an objective standard unit. But I can confidently dissolve 100-200$ worth of heroin in about a teaspoon of room temp water, and that shit will kill you about 10 times over if you did it at once.

About the spoon thing - I feel you. I hate using spoons. Unstable and risky. Also, the metal is horrible if you let your needle tip touch it. I like to use something with a flat bottom like the cap of a water bottle or the little container that comes on top of fresh needles (look it up if you care what that looks like) - both of which are plastic and wont mess up the needle in the way that metal will in the event that you touch it to it.

This also seems like a problem, not being able to inject everything cause the effect starts so fast.
Can you just push the plunger down really fast or could that damage the vein?

Yes that could theoretically be a problem. It's called "blowing out a vein" but if you are really in there, and it is your median cubital vein which is relatively very strong, that is not realistic with the amount of water you'll be using and with the gauge needle you'll be using.

I'll answer your other questions later, I need a break and this post is already massive.

 

[HopefulSleep]

Just as some advice to help, when using trying to restrict blood flow to the median cubital vein specifically, it is important specifically to block of the inner part of the upper arm - that is where the vein is located up there. If you ever see someone shooting up and they don't have something to "tie off" with, they may take any ol' object, like a tee shirt rolled up or a soda can etc., and simply hold it in between their ribcage/torso and inner arm to cut off flow to the median cubital vein specifically.

I am dumb, where exactly should I block bloodflow then?

You should use distilled water, which is something you can get at the grocery store

I never saw distilled water anywhere.

Do you mean intimidating? If you are very scared of needles and this is a serious fear or even phobia for you, maybe this isn't the best option.

I have a needle phobia.

Boofing, snorting, and oral admin are still options for you.

Seems much more risky even with strong rc opioids.
Oral seems useless cause of the vomiting.
Snorting seems better but it takes multiple minutes to fully absorb.
Boofing I can imagine that you also can't absorb all of it at once.

To be honest though, it generally produces no pain at all

It does for me at least feels painful and disgusting when drawing blood from.

Entering the vein itself will not produce pain as there are no nerves in or directly around it.

I know but I am pain sensitive.

However, most heroin addicts just go to the bathroom or lock their door and hide their stuff somewhere.

My family has their doors open I am afraid they would hear anything suspicious from the toilet.
I can't lock my door.
Where should I hide multiple syringes?

Unless you have people actively searching and going through your stuff

My family is paranoid since I tried to ctb as a teenager.

Is someone else home at all times?

I have nearly no alone time my sister is at home all the time.

White china heroin is soluble in water at room temperature.

You can't get china white in germany, only brown heroin and black tar.

Brown heroin (powder - we are not talking about black tar here) is also soluble at room temp in water

I thought it has not perfect water solubility?

and if you're gonna go out of your way to source heroin, get the good shit. White powder heroin.

If I would choose this method I would most likely do it with protonitazene cause it is the strongest water soluble opioid I can get but I have to research if I need citric acid for it or if it has good water solubility.
N-Desethylisotonitazene is stronger but is not water soluble afaik but if I remember correctly someone posted on reddit that it can dissolve in alcohol, do you think this could be used for ctb?

look I know I told you there was no risk to overshooting it, but you are reaaaaallly overshooting it as someone who has never done opiates before in their life.

I took opioids in the past I just never injected anything, only smoked or snorted.
Last time I did that was half a year ago circa I think and tolerance should be completely gone.

Two grams of white china heroin is enough to kill me like 10 times over.

If I would choose this method I would like to be sure that I die and my body is weirdly strong for some reason I never get sick for example.
What I would prefer is a dosage so high that naloxone couldn't even safe me but I don't think that is possible, or is it?

If you have a white powder and have tested it and confirmed it to be heroin or, hell, any relatively powerful opioid

You can't test drugs for purity in germany afaik.

and you even come close to the point of max solubility in even just 20ccs of water then you

Isn't that 20ml?

A "bag" of dope where I am from is roughly 5-20mg and new users frequently overdose on this "standard" dosage.

Overdose doesn't mean guaranteed death, I would like to go overkill if I would choose this method.

I like to use something with a flat bottom like the cap of a water bottle

How much ml can that hold?

the little container that comes on top of fresh needles (look it up if you care what that looks like)

I can't find anything about that.

and it is your median cubital vein which is relatively very strong, that is not realistic with the amount of water you'll be using

Sorry if I overflow it cause the posts are long but how much water at max should I use?

 

[ApparentlyNot]

I don't understand this step, is that for putting the sterile water in a spoon or whatever?

Yeah I knew I didn't describe this step well. Yes it is just for literally sucking up the water so you can spray it back out into whatever container you want to mix your solution in while keeping it (fairly) sterile and knowing exactly how much water you are using relative to the syringe itself.

How much ml can that hold?

A water bottle cap? Idk such information off the top of my head. About the cap I was referring to: just look up "insulin syringe" on google images. A lot of them will show an orange cap over the needle tip, AND an orange or clear cap over the plunger that is bigger and has a flat bottom - this cap is often used to mix up water soluble drug solutions where I am from. It doesn't matter, I believe in your ability to find a little container!

I have a needle phobia.

No offense, why would you be interested in this method specifically then? Because you know the feeling of opioids and find it pleasant? I know there are problems with the other modes of administration (snorting, boofing, oral) - but you could consider combining methods and combining other CNS depressants. Boofing is incredibly effective regarding its rapid onset and high bioavailability. And hey, I told you you couldn't fit 2 grams in a low capacity syringe, but you can definitely fit it up your butt lol! And that's still MAJOR overkill since you have no tolerance currently and the bioavailability up there is incredibly high for a modality that is not direct IV. If you wanted to snort that much, you really couldn't before passing out right? But if you swallowed a normal dose, waited for it to kick in (so it was no longer available to be thrown up), then boofed a huge amount, immediately followed by snorting a lot, it will all kick in at similar times - very rapid and strong onset.

What I would prefer is a dosage so high that naloxone couldn't even safe me but I don't think that is possible, or is it?

Generally, there isn't a dose of opioids you could take where naloxone would not be effective to some degree - especially with multiple administrations. Naloxone has a higher affinity towards our opioid receptors than actual opiates so it should always take precedence over an opioid agonist. However, there obviously are cases where naloxone is ineffective - but I always assumed it was because the person was basically already dead, not because the drug wasn't binding to the opioid receptors, but I'm not a doctor so I have no idea.

Sorry if I overflow it cause the posts are long but how much water at max should I use?

No worries! About the water: the actual amount in volume really isn't the issue - it is how much water/solution you are using relative to the size of the syringe. If you have a syringe with a capacity of 100cc for example, and are using 30cc of water, your finger doesn't have more than an inch to push down before the liquid is fully injected - but if you're using a syringe with a capacity of 30cc and it is completely full, your finger will have to push down several inches before you manage to inject it all. This runs the risk of taking a few very crucial seconds longer. I would personally not recommend using a syringe where you would need to fill it more than 1/3 of the way.

You can't get china white in germany, only brown heroin and black tar.

You implied that you've used the DN. I just checked 2 of the most famous DN marketplaces for white china heroin that ships to Germany and there are a lot of sellers with lots of reviews. A lot of the sellers from Germany who ship to Germany only sell in bulk from what I can see, but if you don't mind using a seller outside of Germany there are tons of options within and out the EU. But then again, you seem like you're really not comfortable using heroin anyway and are leaning toward something more potent.

My family is paranoid since I tried to ctb as a teenager.

I have nearly no alone time my sister is at home all the time.

My family has their doors open I am afraid they would hear anything suspicious from the toilet.
I can't lock my door.
Where should I hide multiple syringes?

My man, I am sorry you have no privacy first of all. My recommendation for practicing would be to pretend you're taking a shower, this will help with any little sounds also. I truly hope that your family doesn't barge in while you're showering. About hiding it, bro, I don't know, I'd have to see your room lol. In a shoe or boot, in a shoe box, under a rug, under your furniture or bed, in a sock, at the bottom of a hamper or trash can, in your underwear drawer, in a thick book, in a drawer, in a vent, on a bookshelf behind something innocuous. Hell, hide them at the bottom of a bag of chips Light Yagami style. (if you don't get that reference just ignore it lol) - when I was a teenager I put my needles in a purse of mine that was fairly flat, and I put it inside of a hoodie that was hung up in a full closet.

I hope I answered most of your pressing questions. I really hope you find a method that suits you and your situation or that you find yourself willing to live in the future.

 

[HopefulSleep]

About the cap I was referring to: just look up "insulin syringe" on google images. A lot of them will show an orange cap over the needle tip

That looks really small.No offense, why would you be interested in this method specifically then

No offense, why would you be interested in this method specifically then?

Maybe I could overcome the fear.

Because you know the feeling of opioids and find it pleasant?

Yes when I overdosed on snorting heroin in the past it felt like being in a deep sleep.
The weird thing is it wasn't even euphoric but probably cause it was just crap heroin.

but you could consider combining methods and combining other CNS depressants.

Sorry I already asked this but what do you think would be better, increasing the opioid dose or adding benzos?
I also thought about methylmethaqualone rc's but the risk of a stroke is too high and it seems unpleasent.
Alcohol wouldn't help much I think, it is way too weak.

And hey, I told you you couldn't fit 2 grams in a low capacity syringe, but you can definitely fit it up your butt lol!

I would still need a syringe to boof it and it needs to fit in that.

But if you swallowed a normal dose, waited for it to kick in (so it was no longer available to be thrown up), then boofed a huge amount, immediately followed by snorting a lot, it will all kick in at similar times - very rapid and strong onset.

Why not just boof everything then?

No worries! About the water: the actual amount in volume really isn't the issue - it is how much water/solution you are using relative to the size of the syringe. If you have a syringe with a capacity of 100cc for example, and are using 30cc of water, your finger doesn't have more than an inch to push down before the liquid is fully injected - but if you're using a syringe with a capacity of 30cc and it is completely full, your finger will have to push down several inches before you manage to inject it all. This runs the risk of taking a few very crucial seconds longer. I would personally not recommend using a syringe where you would need to fill it more than 1/3 of the way.

Sorry if I am dumb but if I google cc to ml it shows that 1cc is 1ml but this can't be right no normal syringe can hold 100ml.

You implied that you've used the DN. I just checked 2 of the most famous DN marketplaces for white china heroin that ships to Germany and there are a lot of sellers with lots of reviews. A lot of the sellers from Germany who ship to Germany only sell in bulk from what I can see, but if you don't mind using a seller outside of Germany there are tons of options within and out the EU

What did I do wrong then to not find them?
I will look tomorrow again.

But then again, you seem like you're really not comfortable using heroin anyway and are leaning toward something more potent.

The problem with more potent opioids is they only sell in bulk and 1g costs like 140€.

My recommendation for practicing would be to pretend you're taking a shower, this will help with any little sounds also.

This is actually a really good idea I already practice my current method in the shower.

About hiding it, bro, I don't know, I'd have to see your room lol. In a shoe or boot, in a shoe box, under a rug, under your furniture or bed, in a sock, at the bottom of a hamper or trash can, in your underwear drawer, in a thick book, in a drawer, in a vent, on a bookshelf behind something innocuous.

I would be fucked if they found it my mother would kick me out and I would be homeless I can imagine, the only way I can stay at her apartment is pretending to be normal.
The problem is hiding multiple syringes seems really difficult but if I do this method I will boof anyway and I don't need much practice for that I think except maybe on how far I need to stick the syringe in my ass.

Hell, hide them at the bottom of a bag of chips Light Yagami style.

Death Note is cool.
Btw I like your profile picture, Kirby superstar ultra is my favorite kirby title.

I hope I answered most of your pressing questions. I really hope you find a method that suits you and your situation or that you find yourself willing to live in the future.

Yea thank you.
I am currently practicing swb and if I can't get it to work I will just use sn I think I am tired of planning and practicing.
And no I will never want to live, I can't endure my existence.

 

[ApparentlyNot]

Death Note is cool.
Btw I like your profile picture, Kirby superstar ultra is my favorite kirby title.

I am currently practicing swb and if I can't get it to work I will just use sn I think I am tired of planning and practicing.
And no I will never want to live, I can't endure my existence.

Yay! I'm glad you got the reference lol! I wanted to compliment your avatar earlier, Hunter x Hunter is my favorite shounen of all time! And you should play Kirby Epic Yarn if you're a Kirby fan, the art is so cool! Superstar Ultra is apparently like 200$ now lol, so I doubt I'll get a chance to play it.

I understand, I wish it wasn't so complicated to CTB. I hope you find a way out of your suffering. Maybe we can play Kirby together in the afterlife.

 

[HopefulSleep]

I wanted to compliment your avatar earlier, Hunter x Hunter is my favorite shounen of all time!

That is correct.

And you should play Kirby Epic Yarn if you're a Kirby fan, the art is so cool!

I played through it but not my favorite kirby title cause it is so different from the mechanics and also you can't really take damage.

Superstar Ultra is apparently like 200$ now lol, so I doubt I'll get a chance to play it.

You could just download it and play on emulator.

Maybe we can play Kirby together in the afterlife.

I would like to be in Dream Land after death but I think that won't happen.

 

[katy]

I'm just curious why every other post I see seems to put barbiturates, and obviously N specifically, on such a pedestal when the mode of lethality is the same as any other central nervous system depressant (opioids included), and it is infinitely harder and less realistic to obtain. The only difference to my mind is that opiates produce acute euphoria in addition to all the things barbiturates produce.

Yes, opioids can make you nauseous, but if you IV it then vomiting will not affect dosage/absorption - the drugs are already in your bloodstream and have crossed the blood-brain barrier by the time that occurs. Regardless, vomiting is not especially unpleasant while high on opioids (if you somehow manage to remain conscious and experience vomiting).

Getting heroin is extremely easy for anyone the US who is willing to simply drive to their nearest metro area with just a little bit of street smarts - I imagine it's a similar situation in Europe. You don't need a single drug connection in many US cities with open-air drug markets (shout out to Philly and Baltimore). If that sounds scary or foreign to your lifestyle, why not buy it on the dark web? - any of the famous/major drug marketplaces will have tons of reliable heroin sellers who have made thousands of sales and who have been verified by the marketplace.

Is it simply because IVing something sounds scary or complicated to non drug users?
Is it the stigma associated with these types of drugs?

Yes, opioid ODs are often easily reversible with administration of an opiate antagonist (such as Narcan) if you are found, but so is SN, and people seem to be disproportionately interested in that method on this forum... And that method induces nausea which can disrupt lethality.

Perhaps people feel unconfident regarding dosage, as they should be with something like SN (you need enough for it to be lethal, but not so much that it makes you sick and you vomit it all up) - but with IV opioids, you can just overshoot your dose like crazy with no risk that I can think of. If you do waaaay too much, you will pass out instantly, only after feeling the warm embrace of opioid induced euphoria for a half a second. Combine it with even a low to moderate dose of any other CNS depressant like benzos or alcohol and you would be extra dead.

To be clear, I am specifically advocating for IV. I've seen some posts talking about taking huge sums of prescription opioids, and that sounds like it would have a very low success rate due to the nausea/vomiting and the slow/gradual onset. But IV is instant, or within 5 seconds at the most for ALL the drugs in the syringe to kick in at once. I know it probably feels foreign and weird to people unfamiliar with "hard" drugs, but people go to much greater lengths to obtain materials and gain skills needed for other methods (me included). I feel like any other serious heroin user (active or otherwise) will back me on this sentiment.

It also seems like a great option for someone who may want their death to seem accidental. Unless you leave a note, the cops will deem your death an accidental drug OD without much thought...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Similarly, I'm a big fan of ketamine for recreational use. I remember hearing about how a lot of accidental Ketamine related deaths were caused by individuals getting high on the drug and attempting to take a bath, then drowning. My immediate thought when I heard that was, "Yeah no shit, what kind of an idiot gets into a body of water on a dissociative?!" If you do enough ketamine to go into a K-hole, you simply WILL lose control and awareness of your body and motor functions, and the physical world will simply cease for the next 20 minutes at least. You would sink into the bath and drown while tripping out in another world entirely, completely unaware of any hypercapnic response (that feeling of suffocating). I was thinking maybe next time I do some K, I wouldn't necessarily even commit to CTB, but I could just get in the bath, snort like 80-250mg of K (depending on potency), and I would, in all likelihood, be dead before I could leave the K-hole, and I wouldn't even have to mentally commit to CTB. It could just be a casual sort of thing that ends up killing me, or not.

What a rant... sorry. I'm just trying to reason my way through all the common and viable options to CTB for myself. Up until now, I have always considered inert gas asphyxiation to be the best option for me. But it feels complicated, and I'm wondering why I don't just turn to my ol' friend Heroin. Plus, I'd love to be able to experience a good emotion one more time before I die, even if it's just for half a second.

First type posting/ commenting so hope I'm following correct etiquette?

I'm just curious why every other post I see seems to put barbiturates, and obviously N specifically, on such a pedestal when the mode of lethality is the same as any other central nervous system depressant (opioids included), and it is infinitely harder and less realistic to obtain. The only difference to my mind is that opiates produce acute euphoria in addition to all the things barbiturates produce.

Yes, opioids can make you nauseous, but if you IV it then vomiting will not affect dosage/absorption - the drugs are already in your bloodstream and have crossed the blood-brain barrier by the time that occurs. Regardless, vomiting is not especially unpleasant while high on opioids (if you somehow manage to remain conscious and experience vomiting).

Getting heroin is extremely easy for anyone the US who is willing to simply drive to their nearest metro area with just a little bit of street smarts - I imagine it's a similar situation in Europe. You don't need a single drug connection in many US cities with open-air drug markets (shout out to Philly and Baltimore). If that sounds scary or foreign to your lifestyle, why not buy it on the dark web? - any of the famous/major drug marketplaces will have tons of reliable heroin sellers who have made thousands of sales and who have been verified by the marketplace.

Is it simply because IVing something sounds scary or complicated to non drug users?
Is it the stigma associated with these types of drugs?

Yes, opioid ODs are often easily reversible with administration of an opiate antagonist (such as Narcan) if you are found, but so is SN, and people seem to be disproportionately interested in that method on this forum... And that method induces nausea which can disrupt lethality.

Perhaps people feel unconfident regarding dosage, as they should be with something like SN (you need enough for it to be lethal, but not so much that it makes you sick and you vomit it all up) - but with IV opioids, you can just overshoot your dose like crazy with no risk that I can think of. If you do waaaay too much, you will pass out instantly, only after feeling the warm embrace of opioid induced euphoria for a half a second. Combine it with even a low to moderate dose of any other CNS depressant like benzos or alcohol and you would be extra dead.

To be clear, I am specifically advocating for IV. I've seen some posts talking about taking huge sums of prescription opioids, and that sounds like it would have a very low success rate due to the nausea/vomiting and the slow/gradual onset. But IV is instant, or within 5 seconds at the most for ALL the drugs in the syringe to kick in at once. I know it probably feels foreign and weird to people unfamiliar with "hard" drugs, but people go to much greater lengths to obtain materials and gain skills needed for other methods (me included). I feel like any other serious heroin user (active or otherwise) will back me on this sentiment.

It also seems like a great option for someone who may want their death to seem accidental. Unless you leave a note, the cops will deem your death an accidental drug OD without much thought...
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Similarly, I'm a big fan of ketamine for recreational use. I remember hearing about how a lot of accidental Ketamine related deaths were caused by individuals getting high on the drug and attempting to take a bath, then drowning. My immediate thought when I heard that was, "Yeah no shit, what kind of an idiot gets into a body of water on a dissociative?!" If you do enough ketamine to go into a K-hole, you simply WILL lose control and awareness of your body and motor functions, and the physical world will simply cease for the next 20 minutes at least. You would sink into the bath and drown while tripping out in another world entirely, completely unaware of any hypercapnic response (that feeling of suffocating). I was thinking maybe next time I do some K, I wouldn't necessarily even commit to CTB, but I could just get in the bath, snort like 80-250mg of K (depending on potency), and I would, in all likelihood, be dead before I could leave the K-hole, and I wouldn't even have to mentally commit to CTB. It could just be a casual sort of thing that ends up killing me, or not.

What a rant... sorry. I'm just trying to reason my way through all the common and viable options to CTB for myself. Up until now, I have always considered inert gas asphyxiation to be the best option for me. But it feels complicated, and I'm wondering why I don't just turn to my ol' friend Heroin. Plus, I'd love to be able to experience a good emotion one more time before I die, even if it's just for half a second.

First time posting/ commenting so I hope I'm following correct etiquette? Heroin definitely seems the least complicated, quick, painless, and foolproof method to me. What worries me is not knowing what I'd actually be buying from a stranger on the street.