Some prolifer just criticizes my beliefs. What would you say?

[Szinuus]

"Suffering does not result from the fact that something changes, disappears, is taken away, but from the fact of our expectations of life - that something will remain the same, will not disappear, will never be taken away. Of course, it is easier to be stuck in malcontent than to change your attitude, enjoy what is and not expect that nothing will change. Unless you are one of those people who delight in suffering and fall into melancholy even in a flowery meadow on the most beautiful day. What if death is not a relief but a passage to the next incarnation, as many believe? Maybe it's not worth waiting for relief after life and it's better to take care of your mental health right now, work on yourself and get rid of fear. Not everyone is so unhappy."

 

[FuneralCry]

I personally just see pro lifers as people who are in denial of the cruel reality of this existence, they are not worth listening to, their opinions don't mean anything. It could only make things worse trying to have a conversation about our suffering with someone who doesn't understand our views in any way. I think that for someone to see suicide as being wrong then they must be delusional. In a life like this wanting suicide can be perfectly rational.

 

[Mofreeko]

When I come across pro lifers I get a lot of comfort from this old reddit thread I copy pasted a long time ago:

"I feel that life isn't for everyone. I'm basically dropped into it one day, and society expects me to not only be able to play this game, but also be successful at it. Whether or not it's right for me, or how much I dislike it, are secondary to the notion that I must play this game for the better half of a century.


I don't think this expectation is valid. In fact, there's hardly a purpose to this game. Everyone is expected to go to school, have a respectable degree, find a job that society approves of, and then work their way up until retirement. But what if I can't do this? OK, I finished my K-12, have my Bachelors, but this is where it really sucks. When people around me talk about their passion for their jobs, I'm totally lost. I don't have one and never will. But I'm still expected to drag my butt to the workplace and back, 5 times a week, only to earn a cheque to sustain myself... just so I could rinse and repeat. Having endured these years, my remaining lifespan will likely play out like this: one shitty job after another just for the cash, chugging along until I become old and senile, lose my senses, and succumb to illness or injury. There are no surprises; it will be more of the same.


I don't think I'm cut out to play this game. But if I wanted out, the mere topic itself is stigmatized, and everyone would pull me back onto this continuous loop. They don't know who I am. Why should I be compelled to continue? I feel as though I've lived over 90% of my life. I feel old and dilapidated. I never had the choice to be who I am, or to play this game at all. Without going into details, I've had too many screwed up experiences, at times in succession, and they keep coming back. I want this to stop. But society expects me to play on for years on end as a display for others. I don't need any of this. If I wanna' clock out early, I should be able to dictate when I retire, and (barring harm to people or property) where, when, and how I sign off, without penalty and without judgement."

 

[Julgran]

Suffering does not result from the fact that something changes, disappears, is taken away, but from the fact of our expectations of life

I do agree with this, since if we were more robot-like and didn't expect anything out of life, there wouldn't be much to suffer from. However, this kind of thinking can't be applied to someone who has already grown up with certain expectations of life, since there's no way of simply removing one's ingrained expectations.

 

[outatime_85]

Some fights are just not worth having.

I don't think those who are suffering from mental health issues on here or in real life owe anyone an explanation, and if someone is truly interested in understanding how someone is dealing with their mental health, they will approach them with an open mind and not think everything is a nail that needs hammering or fixing.

I think it is most difficult to explain to people who seem to have no problems what it is like to live one's life in a constant fog of chaos, fear, and feeling unwanted, etc.

Add to that the constant explaining of the difficulties of finding a trustworthy therapist, arguing about the potential side effects of the meds, and how this may deter some people from seeking help.

Also, some people just can not wrap their minds around the fact that some people have lived a life that they no longer want to be a part of and that there are even people who have everything and nothing at the same time, so they think life is meaningless.

Sorry for the ramble.

 

[chloramine]

The idea that suffering is based in expectation has some truth to it but acting as if that's the only determiner is trying to simplify life into something it's not. We've all seen or heard of examples of someone's worst day being someone's best day- I imagine many of us have heard someone complain and desperately wished that event had happened to us because that would at least mean we had the circumstances necessary to create it. Or just that their level of pain seems more superficial. I don't think anyone would argue that perspective is a component of suffering, but I don't think it's the sole factor.

I've had times when things went better than expected, but still hurt. There's even an amount of relief in expectations being positively subverted, but again, still coupled with pain. Some bad things are just bad. Some suffering just hurts. If someone smashes your hand with a hammer people don't clamour to tell you about how you shouldn't be in pain because of how much worse it would have been if they had smashed multiple areas of your leg instead. Okay some people will but the majority would be more likely to be sympathetic and acknowledge that pain.

Also perspective is human. Yeah it's important to try and manage it where you can, but trying to alter it to a point where it ceases to matter feels reductive. Being human can suck sometimes, but I don't think the solution to that is tear ourselves apart and make ourselves into something less than human. That same perspective allows for empathy, one of the better things about humanity.

 

[Hercules]

I wouldn't waste my time arguing with them. Someone who has never suffered from depression doesn't understand what it's like having to live with it everyday. It's an illness not a choice. No one chooses to be depressed or wants to continue being depressed while life passes them by. It's not as simple as snapping out of it and moving on. If it was, no one would be depressed.

 

[blue_muse]

We're well and truly spoiled with such masterful philosophers. There will be mention of learned helplessness next and that life is full of beauty and worth living because there's "light at the end of the tunnel". Don't forget that there's a magical cure for chronic health conditions, mental illness, socio-economic deprivation, abuse etc.

I'll pass on the sanctimonious BS thanks.

 

[akirat9]

ignore them ?

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Tell them to go crawl back under the rock from where they slithered.

 

[SexyIncél]

Yeah, that's not even a good pro-life argument. Better to just be honest: "Life Sucks, You're On Your Own"

(And that's by a guy who is a pro-lifer)