Discussion Some one explain to me the cause of Ukraine Vs Russia war in simple terms..like you are explaining to a 10 year old

[Cheza_mus]

I tried to research but failed to understand

 

[Enigmatic Sailor]

Reclaim the Russian empire or rebuild the USSR and gain lost territory.

 

[whywere]

It comes down to various factors. 1) Putin has just "warned" Finland and Sweden to think twice before joining NATO 2) totally agree with @Elusive Phantom about the territory aspect 3) Putin is THE worlds' richest person, hands down. He has his dirty little fingers in everything involving money. Along the same line fossil fuel energy moves through the region.

The worst of humanity is being exposed right in front of our eyes, ego, greed, blind nationalism (by a few), and the need to put oneself on the stamp of human history.

Now everyone here has their own thoughts, opinions and the like, and that is FANTASTIC! as there is where we come together as the human race.

Walter

 

[waitingforrest]

I don't know the exact cause, there is much more I have to learn, so bear with me if I mess some facts up.

I think it's because of past history and trying to restore the power of the USSR. There also have been some conflicts in the past as well. The Donbas war started in 2014 and is still on going (between Ukraine and Russia). Also led to the annexation to Crimea.

Not to mention the political relations, confusing to keep track of. Such as Maylasian Airlines Flight 17 and many more.

People were anticipating a attack when it was reported that Russia was building up forces on the border of Ukraine sometime in the last years or so, it's a matter of when, and it happens to be now.

Right as of me writing this, there are airstrikes happening on Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine. There also might have been some changes in the stock market, but that's out of my knowledge. I don't trust news much but there seems to be a buzz on full mobilization of the Ukraine army for 60 days. Don't take it at face value though. It is confirmed Chernobyl was captured.

There is aid being sent to help Ukraine, but I don't know what kind and who.

If I know one thing from my history classes, usually taking the capital and cities is the goal for winning.

 

[TakeMeBack07]

I don't know the exact cause, there is much more I have to learn, so bear with me if I mess some facts up.

I think it's because of past history and trying to restore the power of the USSR. There also have been some conflicts in the past as well. The Donbas war started in 2014 and is still on going (between Ukraine and Russia). Also led to the annexation to Crimea.

Why do people think Putin is obsessed with restoring the USSR?
Putin is fearful of NATOs borders becoming closer and closer to Russia. He said he will stop the attack if ukraine declare a formal veto that they will not enter NATO. nato was anti-ussr but still moving aggressively toward russia as they are still an enemy, trying to encircle them more. its why he threatened finland and sweden. He feels it would be irresponsible to not act now.
US vetod a russian attempt to join nato and russia has asked to join nato multiple times. why are the us so desperate to keep russia as an enemy if they want peace? if russia joins nato, russia is comfortable and is forced to settle its disputes peacefully with ukraine and about donbas.
oh wait, just look at what the us has done the last 20 years themselves.

 

[D&D]

In a nutshell:

1) resources - Ukraine is the Europe's largest country with enormous resources. Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other (titanium ore, nepheline, alunite, mercury, etc.),

2) power - Ukraine, like many other countries, is used as a battle ground on which super-powers jostle for dominance.

3) re-shuffling of the packing order - Ever since the end of WWII and especially the cold war, USA dominated the world as its only super-power. And its only 'policeman' entitled to 'restore the order' in such places as Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc ... with devastating consequences for those places. However, the world has changed. Russia is no longer in tatters as it was when the cold war ended. Putin has made its mission to re-build Russia and position it once again on the world stage as one of its super-powers, along side China and USA. Needless to say USA is not too happy about it.

4) historical - Ukraine's and Russia's history are interlinked since before mid-ages. Their languages are very similar (under 5% difference). Russians and many Ukrainians consider themselves Russians. Ukraine's present borders have been established by USSR after the second world war.

While those are briefly reasons in the background of the conflict, none of them could in any way, shape or form, justify Russian's invasion of Ukraine. Or invasion of any other country for that matter.

The logic along the lines - USA has been invading other countries for decades in complete disregard of international law, so why Russia could not do the same to Ukraine is faulty because two wrongs do not make it right.

That said, it is also true that NATO refused to comply with the agreement it reached with Russia at the end of the cold war - that it will not expend into countries formerly members of Warsaw's/Eastern block. Despite the agreement NATO continued embracing one of those countries after the other. Until it arrived to Ukraine and therefore on Russian's doorstep. Russia warned that it will not look kindly on having NATO missals in its front yard but was not taken too seriously. Ukraine believed or or was made to believe that NATO/America will protect it against Russians. Clearly not. Apart from sending them some not-to-advanced weapons, Ukrainians are left to fend for themselves. Europe and America are busy imposing sanctions on Russia. As they have been doing for decades. To not much avail.

It is tragedy. For Ukrainians. As it was for Yugoslavians in early nineties. Which was the first war in Europe since 1945. The current conflict in Ukraine is the second.

 

[motel rooms]

Why do people think Putin is obsessed with restoring the USSR?

Because they heard his big speech the other day. Because he claims that Russians, Ukrainians & Belarusians are one (Russian) nation. He's clear & unapologetic about his aim to restore as much of the Russian Empire as he can get away with. He demanded that NATO downgrade membership for the countries in Eastern Europe to symbolic status. No NATO weapons & forces in Poland & the Baltic countries; they should just undress & bend over for him.

Btw, if NATO is itching to start a war with Russia, why did it allow Putin to invade Ukraine? Why are there no NATO troops in Ukraine?

@Moomin17, if you want to argue with someone, do it with @TakeMeBack07, not me.

 

[waitingforrest]

why are the us so desperate to keep russia as an enemy if they want peace?

You do bring up a good point. I have no idea, it doesn't make much sense to try to make peace with Russia while also pointing nukes at them.

 

[motel rooms]

Their languages are very similar (under 5% difference). Russians and many Ukrainians consider themselves Russians.

Under 5% difference? That's incorrect... If you were right, no competent linguist would dare claim that Ukrainian is indeed a language, it would be deemed a Russian dialect. Unlike, say, Czech & Slovak, which are significantly mutually intelligible, Ukrainian & Russian are partially mutually intelligible both in their written & spoken forms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_intelligibility#List_of_mutually_intelligible_languages

To say that many Ukrainians consider themselves Russian is pretty controversial... Is that claim true, @onleana & @Nessie? It's my understanding that some ethnic Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language, but that they don't consider themselves Russians.

All Russian nationalists think that all Ukrainians are Russians, however, just like all the (Orthodox) Serbian chauvinists believe that all (Catholic) Croats & (Muslim) Bosniacs are actually Serbs. Well, they aren't.

oh wait, just look at what the us has done the last 20 years themselves.

So, the Russian Empire should be allowed to do some more horrible things just because the American Empire has done many horrible things? Maybe my country should invade Croatia just because it's weaker & the Venetian Republic ruled its coastline for centuries upon centuries. Let's all go fucking insane.

You do bring up a good point. I have no idea, it doesn't make much sense to try to make peace with Russia while also pointing nukes at them.

Do you think that Russia isn't pointing nukes at Poland & the 3 small Baltic countries (& former Soviet republics) - Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania? If they weren't NATO member states, Russia would invade them again without a second thought.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

To say that many Ukrainians consider themselves Russian is pretty controversial... Is that claim true, @onleana & @Nessie? It's my understanding that some ethnic Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language, but that they don't consider themselves Russians.

I am frankly confused as to what "many Ukrainians consider themselves Russian" is even supposed to mean...in a sense of "many Ukrainians don't think they are ethnically different from Russians" - that definitely wouldn't be true, I personally know multiple people from the self-proclaimed LNR and DNR republic that supposedly want to secede from Ukraine and join Russia and even there people that claim to be Russians for any reason aren't in the majority. On the other hand, when USSR was still a thing, there was this tendency to send Russians to all other USSR republics to, essentially, be the ones in charge there - politicians, military, administration of factories, hospitals, schools etc. were often not locals but Russians sent from their hometown to work eslewhere. And when USSR collapsed, those people had jobs, apartments and families not in Russia, but in other countries, so very many of them didn't go back to their Russian hometowns and instead acquired citizenship of whatever country they were living at at the time. People like this are still living all over the former USSR and there is, indeed, a significant number of people in Ukraine among the older generations that were born and raised in Russia but then acquired Ukrainian citizenship after USSR collapsed and stayed here. Some of them consider themselves Russians, others don't. It was significantly more common for people to say they are Russian and not Ukrainian before the whole conflict started. I am from the Eastern part of Ukraine close to Russia and I would say that there is maybe about 5% of the population that would self-identify as Russians here and another 2-3% that are kind of on the fence and will start telling you their entire life story if you ask them about their nationality instead of answering. Whether or not that is "many" is up to interpretation.
As for the Russian language - yes, due to the fact that the Russian language was the official language of the USSR and USSR existed for several generations, many Ukrainians, especially in the Eastern part of Ukraine where I live, identify as Ukrainians but speak Russian as their first language. Most people I know are like this.

Why do people think Putin is obsessed with restoring the USSR?
Putin is fearful of NATOs borders becoming closer and closer to Russia. He said he will stop the attack if ukraine declare a formal veto that they will not enter NATO

People think that because he repeatedly expressed how upset he is that USSR collapsed, including calling it "the biggest geopolitical catastrophy of the recent history". Although I don't think he would really want the USSR to continue existing like it was. He did say that he'll stop if we promise not to enter NATO, but 1) that is weird because, essentially, nobody said we're joining NATO to begin with! We are nowhere close to meeting the conditions and so far no real effort was made to change that. And 2) he also said he has no plans to attack repeatedly before when asked about his troups gathering at the borders, so it's hard to trust him. But yes, it is likely that the real reason for war is his paranoia about NATO being out to get him, although attacking Ukraine to "show it" to NATO is an analogue of kicking your bully's little sister's little dog to get back at them, because you're too afraid to directly confront the bully.

 

[motel rooms]

I am frankly confused as to what "many Ukrainians consider themselves Russian" is even supposed to mean...

I don't blame you. The full quote is even stranger:

Russians and many Ukrainians consider themselves Russians.

I hope they realize that the problem is that Putin & many Russians think that ethnic Ukrainians, 80 % of the population of your country, are actually Russians who just happen to live in Ukraine.

 

[Ada]

My understanding:

Russia tried to approach the west after the cold war and possibly even join NATO, bud was rejected by the US. In Russia's view this is because Russia is too large for the US to control it with soft power.

Thus, as Russia can never get a seat at the table, as long as Europe is under American influence, it must find it's own path. This has led to the idea of Russia being not just another European country to the east, but an Eurasian civilization on it's own.

Russia think that the missionary nature of western liberal democracy is not a historical continuum of christian missions in the colonies, as it is often viewed, but as the remains of the British empire in on itself. As a sea-power Britain has spread it's political culture to vast corners of the world. It would be a mistake for Russia to emulate this, as Russia is a land-power.

Land-powers are expansive on it's outer borders. That is what we see now.

 

[Painless_end]

I think Putin just wants control of Ukraine but the reasons he publicly gives is Ukraine is full of "terrorists", "Nazis", and "drug addicts" and he wants to "rescue the people from Ukraine"

 

[Sherri]

Basically the Russians want a small piece of land back from Ukraine, and that small land from Ukraine is divided between people who suppott Putin and others who support their own land from Ukraine, all of this because of a small piece of land. The Eastern Europeans countries fought so hard for the independence from the USSR. And now Putin wants it back. Like a spoiled little kid. Someone correct me if I'm not totally right.

 

[waitingforrest]

Do you think that Russia isn't pointing nukes at Poland & the 3 small Baltic countries (& former Soviet republics) - Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania? If they weren't NATO member states, Russia would invade them again without a second thought.

Again? :( I never knew that. My stupid brain still hopes for some peaceful resolution, but I am not sure that could even happen. It is sobering to think that both sides have missiles pointed at each other though. I do thank you for helping me learn more about the situation.

I find it more hard to understand the recent demands of Russia, he really seems to be grasping at straws to justify the invasion. The amount of lives it ruins is something I can't agree with. Civilians that don't deserve to have their livings uprooted just because one (botox) guy decided to invade.

You do have a point that if the other countries weren't in NATO that they would be invaded. If Putin is willing to attack a country just on the basis that that country might join NATO, it's very hard to trust him and bend to his recent demands. To go as far as attacking Ukraine and then him saying that he will stop if Ukraine doesn't join NATO. I don't think he can be reasoned with if he is willing to go that far. I find it very hard to not dislike Putin, throwing away lives just so he can get what he wants. Lives are just a number to him it seems.

Basically the Russians want a small piece of land back from Ukraine, and that small land from Ukraine is divided between people who suppott Putin and others who support their own land from Ukraine, all of this because of a small piece of land. The Eastern Europeans countries fought so hard for the independence from the USSR. And now Putin wants it back. Like a spoiled little kid. Someone correct me if I'm not totally right.

Just like a spoiled kid, he is really just throwing a temper tantrum to get what he wants.

 

[motel rooms]

Again? :( I never knew that.

Yes, again. There's a reason so many SS members from Poland are alarmed by Russia's behavior.

 

[TakeMeBack07]

So, the Russian Empire should be allowed to do some more horrible things just because the American Empire has done many horrible things? Maybe my country should invade Croatia just because it's weaker & the Venetian Republic ruled its coastline for centuries upon centuries. Let's all go fucking insane.

Look, all i mean is that the West has caused this. Are they expecting Russia to let them expand their powers at their expense? Of course not. US don't care about lives or innocents. Ukraine is just a pawn for both sides, unfortunately. Sorry, but im just sick of seeing people act like nato and the us are on the side of the good. it's more complicated than that. Russia has tried to lessen tensions between itself and the West but the west isn't interested. Yes the loss of life is sad, but the west has had a major part in what is happening right now and could have prevented it. the west are the villains here. This war benefits US in so many ways.
Also the ussr has invaded those baltic countries in the past, not russia.

So, the Russian Empire should be allowed to do some more horrible things just because the American Empire has done many horrible things? Maybe my country should invade Croatia just because it's weaker & the Venetian Republic ruled its coastline for centuries upon centuries. Let's all go fucking insane.

america is far worse than russia. and if you had nato and us as an enemy coming closer and closer, eventually wanting to put nukes next to your capital, wouldnt you feel threatened? i would if it was russia doing it to us.

fy the invasion. The amount of lives it ruins is something I can't agree with. Civilians that don't deserve to have their livings uprooted just because one (botox) guy decided to invade.

You do have a point that if the other countries weren't in NATO that they would be invaded. If Putin is willing to attack a country just on the basis that that country might join NATO, it's very hard to trust him and bend to his recent demands. To go as far as attacking Ukraine and then him saying that he will stop if Ukraine doesn't join NATO. I don't think he can be reasoned with if he is willing to go that far. I find it very hard to not dislike Putin, throwing away lives just so he can get what he wants. Lives are just a number to him it seems.

US is responsible for this

 

[D&D]

Russians and many Ukrainians consider themselves Russians.

I have indeed worded this phrase awkwardly and for that I apologize.

Thank you @Nessie for clarification - "It was significantly more common for people to say they are Russian and not Ukrainian before the whole conflict started" - it is what I meant.

For what is worth I know how difficult it must be for your @Nessie. I lived through the war and lost everything to it. I am sorry.

All Russian nationalists think that all Ukrainians are Russians, however, just like all the (Orthodox) Serbian chauvinists believe that all (Catholic) Croats & (Muslim) Bosniacs are actually Serbs. Well, they aren't.

This is factually incorrect. Possibly purposely. Just like it is purposely worded as a bait. No.

 

[PartlyHuman]

Another point anybody yet to consider here.
Basically, most of Russia economy is based on selling oil and gas and they're sold for dollars and euros. This is one of the reason the USD to RUB exhange rate is the way it is (or rather, used to be). Basically, ruble is lower means more rubles for one dollar. So income in rubles is oil or gas price * exchange rate. And while incomes are in dollar, state budget is in rubles. So, lower ruble increases state budget incomes... and ruble incomes of companies that get oil and gas. So, if you look at it like this: war makes ruble fall and gas price to rise (since Russia is a major supplier) which in turn makes ruble incomes rise. The major oil and gas companies are semi-state owned and mostly owned by oligarches who also happen to be Putin friends.
No idea what was the real reason tho

 

[waitingforrest]

US is responsible for this

Is it okay that you give me some examples? I don't mean for this to come off as being critical of you. I'm just curious.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Poo-tin is a megalomaniac mass-murderer who believes he has achieved invincibility (the very same mental illness that affected Hitler during WW II) because of his decades of unchallenged totalitarian power and the shameless appeasement by some Western leaders even after he repeatedly committed heinous crimes against humanity.

Now, he has gone into full expansionist mode to achieve his diabolical aim of subjugating and occupying the surrounding nations and peoples by brutal violence to recreate the Russian Empire or re-establish a USSR version 2.0 and appoint himself as its Supreme Tsar. One needs to look at old maps of the Soviet Empire or the Russian Empire to find out which nations are next in line.

It's not only the Baltic nations of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia that are shocked and alarmed by this genocide unleashed on a peace-loving people, but also countries like Poland, Romania, Czechia, Slovakia etc. And also Sweden & Finland as the evil imperialist dictator even openly threatened these two peace-loving nations the other day.

TL;DR

If you want the briefest possible answer to the question, it is one word, only one word and that is Poo-tin.

 

[motel rooms]

Also the ussr has invaded those baltic countries in the past, not russia.

The Baltics were occupied by Russia in the 18th century, silly, & they only enjoyed a brief period of independence between the world wars. And everyone knows what the USSR was in practice - a centralized state run from the Russian capital, not a true federation. Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania were brutally Russified, not USSR-ized. Huge numbers of Estonians, Latvians & Lithuanians were killed or deported & huge numbers of Russians colonized those unfortunate strategically important countries. Yes, colonized. In 1945 Estonians formed 97% of the population of Estonia; in 1991 Russians made up 35% of it.

Btw, ever heard of a little country called Poland? Do you know how many times throughout its history it has been threatened & invaded by your precious Russia?

an enemy coming closer and closer, eventually wanting to put nukes next to your capital, wouldnt you feel threatened? i would if it was russia doing it to us.

Poland & the Baltics have Russian nukes pointed at them. How do you think Poles, Estonians, Latvians & Lithuanians feel about that?

US is responsible for this

The fact that the US is a hypocritical empire doesn't give Russia the right to invade independent countries like Georgia (back in 2008) & Ukraine. I'm not interested in defending America, it has plenty of blood on its hands. You, on the other hand, appear to idealize Russia & even Putin. Who is killing Ukrainian civilians as we speak? This conversation is completely pointless.

 

[whatevs]

I think Putin just wants control of Ukraine but the reasons he publicly gives is Ukraine is full of "terrorists", "Nazis", and "drug addicts" and he wants to "rescue the people from Ukraine"

Lol yeah, he repeated a few times at least that he is trying to "denazify" Ukraine. Just bizarre. I lurk far-right forums sometimes and they definitely see the current govt of Ukraine as "Jewish". And keep in mind that they cheer for Putin. So even actual Nazis, that back him, think that's a laughable statement.

Putin's Russia is far right politically for sure, and bizarrely also China in some respects (like gender) or their economic similarities with fascism.

 

[Disappointered]

Lol yeah, he repeated a few times at least that he is trying to "denazify" Ukraine. Just bizarre. I lurk far-right forums sometimes and they definitely see the current govt of Ukraine as "Jewish". And keep in mind that they cheer for Putin. So even actual Nazis, that back him, think that's a laughable statement.

Putin's Russia is far right politically for sure, and bizarrely also China in some respects (like gender) or their economic similarities with fascism.

I would love to know what the real deal is with the "Azov neo-nazis".

 

[blueclover_.]

Why do people think Putin is obsessed with restoring the USSR?
Putin is fearful of NATOs borders becoming closer and closer to Russia. He said he will stop the attack if ukraine declare a formal veto that they will not enter NATO. nato was anti-ussr but still moving aggressively toward russia as they are still an enemy, trying to encircle them more. its why he threatened finland and sweden. He feels it would be irresponsible to not act now.
US vetod a russian attempt to join nato and russia has asked to join nato multiple times. why are the us so desperate to keep russia as an enemy if they want peace? if russia joins nato, russia is comfortable and is forced to settle its disputes peacefully with ukraine and about donbas.
oh wait, just look at what the us has done the last 20 years themselves.

Ah, someone falls into the russian propaganda again.

NATO has always been hesitant to put Ukraine under their wing. Ukraine has always wanted to join NATO and they should be able to do so as a FREE COUNTRY. Russia is scared because of that, so they decided to attack Ukraine even though Ukraine has NOT joined NATO only because most NATO members do not want to provoke Russia. Russia is the one acting crazy paranoid, and now they are doing a poorly-planned invasion while losing pathetically.

Being Anti-american is no longer edgy and cool, quit the trend.

The Baltics were occupied by Russia in the 18th century, silly, & they only enjoyed a brief period of independence between the world wars. And everyone knows what the USSR was in practice - a centralized state run from the Russian capital, not a true federation. Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania were brutally Russified, not USSR-ized. Huge numbers of Estonians, Latvians & Lithuanians were killed or deported & huge numbers of Russians colonized those unfortunate strategically important countries. Yes, colonized. In 1945 Estonians formed 97% of the population of Estonia; in 1991 Russians made up 35% of it.

Btw, ever heard of a little country called Poland? Do you know how many times throughout its history it has been threatened & invaded by your precious Russia?



Poland & the Baltics have Russian nukes pointed at them. How do you think Poles, Estonians, Latvians & Lithuanians feel about that?



The fact that the US is a hypocritical empire doesn't give Russia the right to invade independent countries like Georgia (back in 2008) & Ukraine. I'm not interested in defending America, it has plenty of blood on its hands. You, on the other hand, appear to idealize Russia & even Putin. Who is killing Ukrainian civilians as we speak? This conversation is completely pointless.

100% this. Some people just want to be seen as cool by blaming America for literally every single bad thing that happens in the world.

 

[motel rooms]

blaming America for literally every single bad thing that happens in the world.

Yeah, that crap is really lame. It's just as stupid as believing that America is perfect & that it can do no wrong.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

the west are the villains here. This war benefits US in so many ways.

You know...I think I finally get why this war started.

Putin needs him own people to believe the entire world is against Russia. Secretly of course, all the proof is hidden by the world govenrment somewhere out there with the proof vaccines cause autism, COVID isn't real, and we're being injected with 5G nanochips. Because that is literally the only reason why he still has genuine support of a significant portion of his people. It is the same reason why people of the self-proclaimed republics are genuinely willing to fight for separation from Ukraine - because they really believe Ukraine is full of Nazis that want to kill them. If the whole entire world hates Russia and wants to destroy it's people, and Putin is the only hope for protection - then poverty, oppression, corruption etc. become the lesser of two evils. Then people will hope and pray that no matter how shitty he makes their own life and how much blatant disregard for their wellbeing and safety he displays, Putin still stays a lifelong president, no one stands in his way and no matter who takes his place once he dies they better be approved by Putin. My own aunt repeatedly explained her support for Putin with this - "yeah, life is shitty, but if Putin is gone americans will destroy Russia" - that's how I know that life really is shitty in Russia, it's not just anti-Russian propaganda by our media.

It's not just a small easily winnable war for ratings. It's actually a somewhat clever plan. If Russia wins and Ukraine surrenders and allows Putin to install his puppet government - great, then they "find" proof there were some secret NATO military bases or whatever in Ukraine and Putin is a brave saviour of Russian people that defeated the sneaky slimy Ukraine that conspired with the West to destroy Russia, and here is proof that the threat is hidden. If this war keeps escalating and the West gets involved - awesome, USA and NATO used Ukraine as an excuse to attack Russia like they always sercetly planned, I told you so. If Ukraine doesn't surrender and Russia just runs out of money and gives up - it's still good. Because now the whole world really does hate Russia and does things that cause harm to Russian people, and that exactly what Putin wants. That's why he seems to deliberately shoot himself in the foot by escalating things to a completely ridiculous degree and provide inconsistent and incoherent reasoning for his actions: "This is the war to save Ukrianians from their evil Nazi government, but also we need to restore our historical glory, but also it's all NATOs fault" etc. So on the surface his motivation looks, well, like this

(I know, I know, not funny)
The more hated Russia is by the whole world, the more pressure the world puts on average Russian people - the better for Putin, the more proof he has that Russia is surrounded by enemies and without a strong leader it will be torn to shreds.
While I wouldn't say that it would be completely impossible for NATO to install their military bases here to attack Russia, or spy on it, or use 5G waves to give Russians cancer and alcoholism, my biggest argument against the fact that this isn't true is that right now we're fighting alone and I don't see any NATO soldiers on the streets. If there would be any strategic military object in Ukraine that would be worth shit to NATO, they'd use the excuse of protecting Ukrainians from Russians the same way Russia used the excuse of protecting Ukrainians from their own government and send their troops here, especially if fucking up Russia really was their agenda, they could've even use this excuse to invade Russia itself. I am not saying that would be a good thing for anyone - it would probably result in a prolonged war with even more desctruction and devastation, but it clearly didn't happen even though Russia has already attacked all the localtions where those strategic objects could theoretically be situated soo...And as for Ukraine secretly getting ready to join NATO within days, and no one knows anything - that is a far-fetched conspiracy theory of the "COVID is fake" variety - not impossible, but the explanation is so much more complicated than the explanation of the contrary and requires so many instances of somebody lying and somebody hiding the truth from us, that it looks like bullshit, walks like bullshit and quacks like bullshit. But if you ever tried to argue with an antivaxxer you'd understand how hard, if not impossible, it would be to convince a Putin supporter that Ukraine wasn't conspiring with NATO to do something shady. There is also a lot of this ass-backwards justification for it "But why would Putin start a war that harms his own people if there wasn't some secret reason for it?". Kind of like an abuser would say "I love you so much, do you understand that if I'm hurting you then you left me no choice?".

Well, it's either this, or Putin really lost his marbles and is genuinely paranoid and convinced that everyone is conspiring against him, so he has no choice but to attack first.
The only good news is that if I'm right - there wouldn't be a nuclear WWIII, Putin wouldn't want to rule over a radioactive desert. Doesn't guarantee he's not going to nuke Ukraine though. And if it's not the former but the latter and Putin went insane then nothing is guaranteed, unfortunately.
But if I'm right, Putin declared a war at his own people, first and foremost.

 

[whywere]

We are ALL the same. We want to live, some want to raise a family, work, love, live and have hope for a better future. I was born and raised in the U.S.; my side came from Germany. Growing up I heard about what happened from 1933 to 1945 in Germany and I am still horrified and always will be.

I have always lived my life from day 1 with: we are all the same period, we are all together in this thing called life, each with their own hopes and dreams, BUT still TOGETHER.

Be it Hitler, Stalin, whoever in history who has put their own interests first, we as a WHOLE World population must stand together, united in our cause that, no matter the color of skin, religion, where one is from, absolutely anything, that we want not only the best for ourselves, family BUT the entire population of Earth.

Like you said @Nessie, if Putin declared war on his own people, then my question is this, should ALL people on Earth unite and I mean all, to either counter him or make sure he resigns and lives in obscurity? He has the 1 BILLION dollar plus mega-mansion around the Black Sea area to retire to, is that not good enough?

I could care less if someone is American, Russian, Chinese, etc., heavens I only care that they are sentient and self-aware.

I hope and pray that the powers that be and their government heads of state come to their senses and let everyone live their lives.

Walter

 

[TakeMeBack07]

Ah, someone falls into the russian propaganda again.

NATO has always been hesitant to put Ukraine under their wing. Ukraine has always wanted to join NATO and they should be able to do so as a FREE COUNTRY. Russia is scared because of that, so they decided to attack Ukraine even though Ukraine has NOT joined NATO only because most NATO members do not want to provoke Russia. Russia is the one acting crazy paranoid, and now they are doing a poorly-planned invasion while losing pathetically.

Being Anti-american is no longer edgy and cool, quit the trend.

Lol.

 

[diyCTB]

Poo-tin is a megalomaniac mass-murderer who believes he has achieved invincibility (the very same mental illness that affected Hitler during WW II) because of his decades of unchallenged totalitarian power and the shameless appeasement by some Western leaders even after he repeatedly committed heinous crimes against humanity.

What about your nationalists though? Have they not got any skeletons in their closets and pretend like nothing happened?

Anyway, there has been a recent demonstrations in my country by a group of a few hundred Ukrainians who are our citizens who participated demanded from our president to put sanctions on Russia and provide Ukraine with vests, helmets and weapons. There is a problem with this. My country is surrounded by countries who are our enemies and are friends of Russia. Should our president provide Ukraine with weapons, next time when there will be a conflict with our neighbors it will be "different".

I found out that one of group's member supports a person named Stepan Bandera who organized Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and fought along with Nazy Germany doing the dirty jobs for them by torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of polish people when victims were subject to animalistic tortures before dying. They were also responsible for slaughter of 1.5 million Ukrainian jews. I haven't mention how many Russian armed and unarmed people they killed but do you own research.

I found Polish archive recently and saw photos, pictures, information. When I saw it, an anger started to build inside me for atrocities these people committed and to this day deny what they did. Ukraine nationalists here see that person as their leader to this day and I saw that on Facebook page of group's member. With recent demonstration, they basically sold out my country because they are proponents of their leader's ideals to this day which is to survive and become independent at all costs.

I take no sides in their conflict between Russia but now that I see a true face of these rats and their entitled and audacious behavior in countries who accept them today as refugees I despise them and would side with Russia only if it had good intentions for their own people which they don't.

Ukraine's government condemns our president about not giving them weapons. Recently EU stepped in and asks from our president to provide them with with weapons. My country is already currently providing aid to Ukraine and sent a delegation of doctors to deploy a camp and assist wounded. Our country also accepts Ukrainian refugees who just wanted peace and lost most if not everything from this conflict and their nationalists don't give a shite about them. Hopefully most of refugees are not proponents of nationalists' ideals. Not their innocent children at least.

I think it is very audacious to say the least of Ukraine government to demand weapons and they should not expect more than that based on information I provided above and should be appreciative of our will to assist. I think mass media is giving too much credit to Ukraine side of conflict without realizing how it will impact other countries.

Don't bring your conflict in other countries and learn to behave. They do not own you anything! Especially poles and jews.