Some normies are stupid

[Messgram]

Today I had an argument at work, my co-workers said that if they procriate and the child became a horrible person they would be disowned.
So I said that parents who abandon their children, regardless of what they do, are equally scum and should not be treated as victims because they were the ones who made the decision to bring them into the world knowing exactly that they could become horrible people. So they started going around in circles and saying that they are not responsible if the child becomes a monster because it would be solely their( the child) fault for not following parents advice. What I find most hypocritical about all of this is that parents like my co-workers are willing to take their children's side when they become exemplary people like doctors, scientists, etc but quickly to abandon when they don't live up to their expectations. I just said "if you don't want to risk having to deal with a psychopath or murderer being your son/daughter, instead of abandoning them why don't you just avoid Having them? It's that simple isn't it?"
Of course, they still kept repeating the same arguments, which leads me to the conclusion that normies are a bunch of brain dead incapable of understanding any thought that escapes their bubble of ignorance. So I just dropped the argument and stayed silent.

It's because of people with this selfish mindset having kids that the world sucks. And in my opinion, natalists are worse than murderers, for one continues a cycle of suffering while the other ends. In the long run, it is obvious that a natalist will cause much more suffering than a serial killer, especially if their offspring decides to procreate too. Of course I didn't say that, because I would have been reported to the police.

Sorry for the shitty english, Its not my primary language.

 

[Slimetae]

I mean As long as they tried everything they could to help that child then I think they shouldn't be responsible. Eventually you get old enough to take accountability for yourself and you're actions . I think people are quick to disown people who do horrible things bc of how society will react to them supporting them they just don't wanna commit social suicide.

 

[Messgram]

I mean As long as they tried everything they could to help that child then I think they shouldn't be responsible. Eventually you get old enough to take accountability for yourself and you're actions . I think people are quick to disown people who do horrible things bc of how society will react to them supporting them they just don't wanna commit social suicide.

I could disown anyone else who screw around, but not my children. And yes, parents will always be responsible, because they were the ones who decided to roll the dice of life for no reason others than pure selfishness. If you roll the dice, you take responsibility when the side it falls on is not the one you wanted.

 

[Slimetae]

I could disown anyone else who screw around, but not my children. And yes, parents will always be responsible, because they were the ones who decided to roll the dice of life for no reason others than pure selfishness. If you roll the dice, you take responsibility when the side it falls on is not the one you wanted.

i respect you're loyalty and I understand you're way of thinking you would be a good parent unfortunately most people would cut all ties with their child definitely wouldn't give up on my child tho if I wanted any.

 

[Messgram]

wouldn't give up on my child tho if I wanted any.

I probably would - and for that very reason I would never have children. I would feel horrible if my son/daughter turned into something I don't want and I started to despise them for that. During the entire discussion that was my point.

I perfectly understand someone who doesn't accept a certain offspring, but if that same someone thinks that way and still decided to have children knowing that they could become what is unacceptable for them, it will always be their fault for disowning their children.

 

[Pluto]

A further tragedy of circumstance is the fact that the same normies who are totally apathetic on these matters will be the first to procreate.

Based on my understanding (including professional studies), there are very, very few circumstances where a child will turn out totally rotten despite having really good parents. Almost all serious issues can be caught early and mitigated to some degree. Someone who has already planned to abandon their unborn children is a very dubious candidate, though refer to my previous paragraph to complete the cycle of misery.

 

[nena21]

I mean As long as they tried everything they could to help that child then I think they shouldn't be responsible. Eventually you get old enough to take accountability for yourself and you're actions . I think people are quick to disown people who do horrible things bc of how society will react to them supporting them they just don't wanna commit social suicide.

I disagree. most ppl in the b cluster arent born like this. its because their parents SUCKED. doesnt matter how old they are. Age doesnt matter. shitty parents fuck up their children. personality disorders dont go away just by getting older.

 

[Slimetae]

I disagree. most ppl in the b cluster arent born like this. its because their parents SUCKED. doesnt matter how old they are. Age doesnt matter. shitty parents fuck up their children. personality disorders dont go away just by getting older.

I'm aware people aren't born evil . I get that there are parents that should not have had children . I was saying if a parent did everything to help and always wanted the best for their child and they turn out to be a psychopath or some shit it's not all on the parents .

 

[Ligottian]

When asked why he had no children, the ancient Greek philosopher Thales replied "Because I love them too much."

 

[freedompass]

Well. I've said this before. Not every parent even got to make a decision about giving birth/procreating, for all kinds of reasons, an obvious one being rape. In my case it was psychosis which went on for months resulting in an unwanted unplanned pregnancy being carried to full term plus further bad decisions by others preventing him from going for adoption. I get tired of hearing how parents all 'decided to procreate', I really do when it's blatantly not the case, check the statistics for unplanned pregnancies. I'm very sympathetic to antinatalism but demonising all parents makes no sense. Furthermore your statement saying a serial killer ends suffering? Clearly absurd. Stop the press: all biological parents 'worse than serial killers' haha. I mean where do I even start with that one.

 

[FuneralCry]

In my opinion, it is never a good idea to procreate, as to me life is completely unnecessary. We were all perfectly fine not existing until we were forced to live. We also live in a world where there is unlimited potential for suffering after all with no limit as to how bad things can get. If you never exist, you never suffer and more than anything I wish that I was never born.

 

[Symbiote]

Some would-be parents should never be parents to begin with.

 

[Klo]

Anyone who would like to reduce potential suffering or harm should not have children. If you are on this site then you know better than most the suffering that comes with existing.

 

[Messgram]

@freedompass
I agree that there are exceptions like you, women who were raped, or people who weren't educated enough to be aware. My grudge are directed to those parents or future parents who know exactly about the terrible consequences of procreation and, consciously, decided to have children anyway, they are all to be blamed.
And yes, serial killers ends the suffering, because there's no way for the dead to feel frustrated because they were killed , they just don't exist anymore. Whether you agree with me or not, it doesn't change the fact that the cycle of suffering only exists because people keeps being born in the first place. Serial killers and rapists are not born out of thin air.

 

[freedompass]

@freedompass
I agree that there are exceptions like you, women who were raped, or people who weren't educated enough to be aware. My grudge are directed to those parents or future parents who know exactly about the terrible consequences of procreation and, consciously, decided to have children anyway, they are all to be blamed.
And yes, serial killers ends the suffering, because there's no way for the dead to feel frustrated because they were killed , they just don't exist anymore. Whether you agree with me or not, it doesn't change the fact that the cycle of suffering only exists because people keeps being born in the first place. Serial killers and rapists are not born out of thin air.

Well thanks for the acknowledgement. The serial killer thing though. A murderer removes all choice, free will and autonomy from their victim. They usually very much want to live! Regardless of your what you think about the dead not suffering or regretting anything, that is soooo not the point. I mean you are making serial killers sound like some kind of volunteer philanthropist going around 'eradicating suffering'…by torturing and killing people! This is a ludicrous notion that I can't even take seriously. And just to reiterate, demonising all biological parents for essentially obeying their sexual instincts and biological imperative is also insane IMO. Most people are not clear sighted about this life, there is a clear optimism bias and people are brainwashed or delusional to some extent. That, or they take a calculated risk that their kids will be ok. Yes it's still a gamble, agreed. Many should not procreate, agreed. But you seem to characterise parents as deliberately inflicting suffering just by giving birth. I hear a lot of the knee jerk 'I blame the parents' rhetoric from antinatalists and I think it alienates more people from the antinatalist philosophy/cause than it could ever attract.

 

[ineverlived]

i disagree. not some, all of them are stupid

 

[lostmyacc]

Some kids just rebel it's their nature. In old days use to call it as 'being bad' you would disown a murderer for example. Unconditional love is a new concept and it's poison means they don't learn by tough love and duty bound to make mistakes again and again.

 

[Messgram]

Well thanks for the acknowledgement. The serial killer thing though. A murderer removes all choice, free will and autonomy from their victim. They usually very much want to live! Regardless of your what you think about the dead not suffering or regretting anything, that is soooo not the point. I mean you are making serial killers sound like some kind of volunteer philanthropist going around 'eradicating suffering'…by torturing and killing people! This is a ludicrous notion that I can't even take seriously.

none of what you mentioned is relevant to the victim. Whats even the point? By logic, it is impossible to attribute any tragedy to death, for there is no more suffering. Nothing hurts more than life.
You are expected to disagree with my point of view, as you grew up indoctrinated by a society that taught you that everything related to death is bad, so a thought that goes against everything you've been taught is hard to absorb as it was for me too.

A tortured victim has not strayed far from their natural course of life. If they stayed alive eventually they would grow old, they would develop various disabling diseases that causes a Lot of pain not just for a few hours as the murder would, but for several years. Thats a torture as well, mate.

And just to reiterate, demonising all biological parents for essentially obeying their sexual instincts and biological imperative is also insane IMO. Most people are not clear sighted about this life, there is a clear optimism bias and people are brainwashed or delusional to some extent. That, or they take a calculated risk that their kids will be ok. Yes it's still a gamble, agreed. Many should not procreate, agreed. But you seem to characterise parents as deliberately inflicting suffering just by giving birth. I hear a lot of the knee jerk 'I blame the parents' rhetoric from antinatalists and I think it alienates more people from the antinatalist philosophy/cause than it could ever attract.

Just by giving birth you are inflicting suffering, for those who don't exist feel no need to exist or any pleasure you can mention and suffering is the only state of life that is inevitable.
To live is just suffering for a set of needs that never had a reason to exist...

I think "instinct" is a bad argument, you're almost justifying rape because the aggressor could use this same argument that he couldn't resist his natural impulses to rape. No matter what kind of brainwashing people get, I'm sure a lot of them know exactly what the world is and the consequences of bringing a child into the world, so they're to blame, especially in the case of my colleagues where I've constantly reinstated this argument.

 

[chocolatebar]

Your post makes me remember and old saying where I live about "ugly children having no parents". It's a generalized metaphor for people not assuming their mistakes, but can also describe this behavior people have. If a kid grows to become someone prestigious in society, the parents will walk in to take some of the prestige, telling everyone about how they raised their kids in a special way, but when the kid grows to become bad person, they will tell that they have no influence on it.

 

[Twiceler]

Remember, you will always lose arguing normies, normies are always right. Reproduction of your genes is the most important thing in your life, no matter if humans are in danger of extinction. That's the law of nature. So it doesn't matter if a child became a "bad" or "good" person. The entire world is a genetic competition.

 

[freedompass]

You are expected to disagree with my point of view, as you grew up indoctrinated by a society that taught you that everything related to death is bad, so a thought that goes against everything you've been taught is hard to absorb as it was for me too.

I don't disagree with the main tenet of antinatalism though! I made that clear in my replies.

A tortured victim has not strayed far from their natural course of life. If they stayed alive eventually they would grow old, they would develop various disabling diseases that causes a Lot of pain not just for a few hours as the murder would, but for several years. Thats a torture as well, mate.

You've ignored my point about a murderer removing all free will from the victim (as well as sadistically inflicting pain in many cases). So that's perfectly ok with you is it?

I think "instinct" is a bad argument, you're almost justifying rape because the aggressor could use this same argument that he couldn't resist his natural impulses to rape. No matter what kind of brainwashing people get, I'm sure a lot of them know exactly what the world is and the consequences of bringing a child into the world, so they're to blame, especially in the case of my colleagues where I've constantly reinstated this argument.

You're sure a lot of people know what the world is, are you? Until some catastrophe occurs in their lives they frequently don't! Some young woman falling pregnant at 17 is barely even a moral agent. This is insane but there's clearly no point trying to argue with you so I'll leave it there.

 

[thereisthemist]

humans are always complicated, ideologies are always short sighted, and children, children are always just little humans...

 

[Messgram]

I don't disagree with the main tenet of antinatalism though! I made that clear in my replies.

yet, you'r still trying to rationalize that death is a bad even when it's impossible to attribute any negativity to it.

You've ignored my point about a murderer removing all free will from the victim (as well as sadistically inflicting pain in many cases). So that's perfectly ok with you is it?

Again, what does it matter? The victim's free will means absolutely nothing if they no longer exists. If someone breaks into my house and kills me while I'm enjoying my life it's not going to make any difference to me, so there's no point in worrying about the free will of someone who's dead, why do you keep mentioning it then?

At no time did I say that serial killers are voluntary philanthropists, involuntary yes, because unconsciously they are causing less suffering than natalists who only serve to propagate an idiotic cycle of suffering.

You're sure a lot of people know what the world is, are you? Until some catastrophe occurs in their lives they frequently don't! Some young woman falling pregnant at 17 is barely even a moral agent. This is insane but there's clearly no point trying to argue with you so I'll leave it there.

You talk like It takes a great IQ and high level of awareness to understand that the world sucks. People constantly see suffering around them every day, on the streets, on TVs, I'm sure most of them would agree that corruption, misery and suffering are a big part of life. They just don't care. People are giving a fuck to the world, they just want someone to take care of them when they get old or have someone to make them proud of. They are all selfish, which is why even rich and smart people keep having children, even though they are 100% aware of what they are doing, whereas they could simply adopt. The point isn't that they don't know the world is hell, they just don't care because they're a bunch of narcissistic idiots.