Discussion Society owes me nothing.

[Dysgenic Pup]

I always see people talk about how the mentally ill and downtrodden deserve more from society. I'm in no way speaking for others on here or mentally ill people in general, I hope everyone finds the help they want and need, but I believe nobody owes me anything. Just because I exist, doesn't mean other people, who actually provide benefit to society, have to keep me afloat and alive. People shouldn't pay for me to rot away mentally. The commonality between all living organisms on Earth is the struggle to survive; nobody has a natural guarantee of happiness, safety, or good health. If I can't sustain my own life by my own means, then I'm not fit to live on this Earth. It's up to me to fix my mental health problems, not anyone else. Any kindness I've received from strangers or the system is only a bonus, not an expectation.

 

[ge0rge]

surprisingly sensible take

 

[Pluto]

Fair points. I don't feel any sense of entitlement either, except in the sense that society should not be putting up artificial barriers to openly discussing let alone completing a CTB if we are to be left high and dry.

 

[Darkover]

exactly they should get rid of all benefits for disabled people the sick and mentally ill, life should be what you make of it and if you get cancer don't expect to be bailed out, on the other hand they should allow anyone to buy N for 50£ so we can all just leave this awful enslavement behind
i get 4,680 rent paid per year and 14,390 in benfits altogther 19,070£ per year for doing nothing other than being ill
they should also stop benfits for children and thier mothers

 

[makethepainstop]

I always see people talk about how the mentally ill and downtrodden deserve more from society. I'm in no way speaking for others on here or mentally ill people in general, I hope everyone finds the help they want and need, but I believe nobody owes me anything. Just because I exist, doesn't mean other people, who actually provide benefit to society, have to keep me afloat and alive. People shouldn't pay for me to rot away mentally. The commonality between all living organisms on Earth is the struggle to survive; nobody has a natural guarantee of happiness, safety, or good health. If I can't sustain my own life by my own means, then I'm not fit to live on this Earth. It's up to me to fix my mental health problems, not anyone else. Any kindness I've received from strangers or the system is only a bonus, not an expectation.

Yeah, but we became the dominant species because we do look out for each other!
Some species of snakes and lizards do not, but all of the higher lifeforms on the planet do share the characteristic of looking out for other members of the herd.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Right-wing utopia: no taxes for the rich, let poor people starve, unlimited access to guns/drugs, free market for euthanasia services.
Left-wing utopia: no religion in politics, full support for bodily autonomy in abortion/euthanasia.

So where did we go wrong?

Rather politically charged post from you isn't it?

 

[Pluto]

Rather politically charged post from you isn't it?

Point being both sides of politics should converge on this issue. No offense intended.

 

[SamTam33]

I think society owes us the right to die with all the bells and whistles they grant to births: doctors and nurses present. Machines to monitor your condition. Drugs to ease the discomfort.

And if they aren't going to do that, then strive towards parity. Level the playing field. Remove some of the contributing factors to suicide when possible.

If as a nation you have the means to eliminate poverty, do it. If you have the means to provide free healthcare, do it. I'm sure some people on here would love to obtain a therapist or psychiatrist if they could afford one.

How many people with illnesses - mental or otherwise - suffer because they can't afford their medications.

I think about the NFL and how a couple of decades ago, they'd have the same few teams in the Superbowl over and over because the wealthiest teams signed all the best players. The other clubs were left with scraps.

It was great for the handful of clubs that kept winning, but it wasn't a good business model overall. They had to do something to keep those other markets engaged; provide them with a way to be competitive and improve the product of the league as whole.

So they implemented measures like free agency and salary caps.

Now, it's a real possibilty for every team to make the Super Bowl depending on how well they manage their resources.

That's my long way of saying those other teams weren't OWED an opportunity to win the Superbowl, but if you could provide the opportunity, while improving your product as a whole (society) - why the hell wouldn't you do it?

 

[BillyBob]

This is partly why I hate life.
If we try to kill our self, there will always be someone who will try and save us. All it does is waste resources and takes away from others who actually want to live.
We are made to feel like we then owe them something in return all the while ignoring your wishes.

Wish I was not on a benifit, it feels like I owe something in return. But I am physically ill and mentally not all there so it makes it hard to get any job since no one wants to hire me at all. Will never be able to repay my debt for student loans either since I can not get a job.
No matter what I do I fear owing people, even down to birthday gifts or even a ride in a car that I avoid it at all costs.

We live in a day and age that we are taught that we owe people and the government something in return for living.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Point being both sides of politics should converge on this issue. No offense intended.

I wish you hadn't been made to feel as though you needed to delete it. [Thanks for sharing.]

 

[A simple aid]

I always see people talk about how the mentally ill and downtrodden deserve more from society. I'm in no way speaking for others on here or mentally ill people in general, I hope everyone finds the help they want and need, but I believe nobody owes me anything. Just because I exist, doesn't mean other people, who actually provide benefit to society, have to keep me afloat and alive. People shouldn't pay for me to rot away mentally. The commonality between all living organisms on Earth is the struggle to survive; nobody has a natural guarantee of happiness, safety, or good health. If I can't sustain my own life by my own means, then I'm not fit to live on this Earth. It's up to me to fix my mental health problems, not anyone else. Any kindness I've received from strangers or the system is only a bonus, not an expectation.

Amazing point dude ....amazing...that is a very healthy mindset...irrespective of the state you are in .....i wish you great luck on your journey...assuming it isnt contemplating your death....and whether it is or not .....im here for you bro

 

[whywere]

I agree and disagree with you.

The agreeing part is that nobody ever is guaranteed food, clothing, health, happiness.

Disagree aspect is along the lines of what @makethepainstop mentioned in his post. We are the highest organism on this rock. We should have the mental, spiritual and evolved wanting to help another soul out. Can be humans, pets. heck any form of life.

I was kicked out by my "parents" at 18, their choice and after living in a car for a while, I was helped to get a start and I still am forever grateful to the family that helped me back in 1974.

Yes, no one is "owed" anything in this world ever, BUT to show humanity, love, kindness, caring, empathy helps us to not only evolve but evolve with each other and ourselves also.

Walter

 

[👁️👃👁️]

I agree and disagree with you.

The agreeing part is that nobody ever is guaranteed food, clothing, health, happiness.

Disagree aspect is along the lines of what @makethepainstop mentioned in his post. We are the highest organism on this rock. We should have the mental, spiritual and evolved wanting to help another soul out. Can be humans, pets. heck any form of life.

I was kicked out by my "parents" at 18, their choice and after living in a car for a while, I was helped to get a start and I still am forever grateful to the family that helped me back in 1974.

Yes, no one is "owed" anything in this world ever, BUT to show humanity, love, kindness, caring, empathy helps us to not only evolve but evolve with each other and ourselves also.

Walter

Hey Walter. For being the "highest" organism on this rock, we sure are the most destructive.

 

[Superdeterminist]

If you go with that philosophy, you have to commit to the reverse case too to be consistent. Which is that the individual owes nothing to others, either. Once this is also admitted, then I'm on board.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

If you go with that philosophy, you have to commit to the reverse case too to be consistent. Which is that the individual owes nothing to others, either. Once this is also admitted, then I'm on board.

I agree, I owe nothing to others at all. It doesn't mean I will be mean and cold to others just for the hell of it. Of course, I would still be willing to help people in need and I still feel compassion, sympathy, and empathy for others. I'm not close to being a misanthrope, I honestly appreciate humanity. I just think that I don't owe things to others and they don't owe things to me. I just see kindness as a bonus and I think this mindset makes me feel more appreciative of the things I take for granted. Also with the political discussions above, I agree that this viewpoint is different in theory than in reality because the government actively takes things from us and gives things to us whether we like it or not, so we are stuck in the system whether we like it or not.

 

[NeverReallyHere]

Perhaps more than any other animal on the planet human beings are useless without other members of our species. Everything you rely on to simply live day to day - from the clothes you're wearing, to the food you eat, to the house you live in, to the screen you're reading this on... even the language with which you communicate and contextualise your very thoughts and feelings - is produced by other people, most of whom you've never even met. Without each-other we are literally nothing; without some sort of society we are literally nothing. Even if you live alone in the woods, someone had to teach you how to survive that way. In society we contribute what we can, and when someone needs help we help them, because we understand implicitly that it will be us someday - or someone we love - who needs help. That's the bargain which underpins every society. There's no point in even calling ourselves human without it.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

Perhaps more than any other animal on the planet human beings are useless without other members of our species. Everything you rely on to simply live day to day - from the clothes you're wearing, to the food you eat, to the house you live in, to the screen you're reading this on... even the language with which you communicate and contextualise your very thoughts and feelings - is produced by other people, most of whom you've never even met. Without each-other we are literally nothing; without some sort of society we are literally nothing. Even if you live alone in the woods, someone had to teach you how to survive that way. In society we contribute what we can, and when someone needs help we help them, because we understand implicitly that it will be us someday - or someone we love - who needs help. That's the bargain which underpins every society. There's no point in even calling ourselves human without it.

I agree that humans have a natural inclination to help each other to a certain extent, but I still don't think that I owe anyone help nor do they owe me help. There are people that have to be coerced into helping others. People have far more loyalty toward themselves, their friends, and their families (much less so in the west, nowadays) than they have toward strangers. Society only functions if the participants receive in return for what they give, or if they're forced to give by threats of legal or social repercussions.

 

[Barteljaap]

The narcissist inside me disagrees!

On a serious note, the idea that we only deserve things from society if we contribute value is one of the reasons I'm so nihilistic/suicidal. Everything is so transactional. I know mentally ill people sometimes take things too far with how much they want to be accommodated by society. But at the same time, there are people in society with very comfortable and pleasurable lives and it's hard to understand why they deserve so much more than I do.

 

[gimzero]

Society is designer by the environment.

 

[whywere]

Hey Walter. For being the "highest" organism on this rock, we sure are the most destructive.

I 100% agree with you. One would think that we could come together as a species and work together for humanity's sake, the Earth's sake and all living organisms on this rock.

Will we learn to be kinder, more intelligent towards each other and all living things before we go extinct.

One of those HUGE questions, I guess.

Walter

 

[Winterreise]

Point being both sides of politics should converge on this issue. No offense intended.

Problem is that right wing is so far to the right they endorse violence

 

[Altvtysp]

Our "system" is such bullshit and entirely unfair. Of course we should acknowledge our role in why we're going to CTB but being in this insane society drives people like us to kill ourselves. We're expected to slave away for scraps while being brain dead consumer robots and somehow convince ourselves this is a good life. We're the most propagandized population on the planet (even more than China or NK!) and the owners of this country do this so as we get fucked hard by them we are focused on fighting with each other and not on what is acrually causing these conditions. I'm too tired to try to expand on this any further but I'm just glad I'm not going to be sticking around to experience America imploding on itself. I wouldn't want to be mentally healthy in a profoundly sick society.