Venting So sick of suicide censorship everywhere

[FTL.Wanderer]

There's a popular online blog started by a social worker therapist about why she opposes suicide. It's not surprising that a professional who makes money counseling the suicidal opposes suicide. But her blog's comment section is many years old and 95% or more of the many, many, many commenters are people describing how miserable their lives are and why, therefore, they are pro-suicide. The stories are heartbreaking. The therapist/social worker comments sometimes, but despite having a PhD in her field, she gives the most vacuous responses full of false assumptions, irrelevant personal values, and irritating platitudes. Again, nothing new to anyone who's ever announced publicly they're suicidal.

What makes me fume, though, is that this ... therapist actively censors comments that break no laws whatsoever whenever the commenter criticizes the therapist's viewpoint strongly enough. Recently, another blog owner commented on the site I'm talking about. She mentioned her struggles with gender identity--how painful it's been emotionally, how she's been in numerous treatments to no avail, how she's poor and barely surviving due to the widespread discrimination, and how she suffers gravely from isolation and loneliness. This blogger also criticized the therapist for her position that suicide is never, ever justifiable. That therapy is always appropriate and effective. The therapist replied by calling the other blogger insensitive and cruel for opposing others' access to suffering-ending therapy. Several other commenters respectfully chimed in, pointing out the therapist had misrepresented the other blogger's position as "no one should ever get therapy." The other blogger had said that some people's cases are so very bad that therapy is ineffective for THEM. Because the therapist couldn't "win" the argument against the other blogger and because other commenters supported the other blogger, the therapist then deleted the entire thread.

I wrote in to the therapist that her censorship was ineffective, anti-intellectual, and counter-productive. Her reply was essentially that suicidals cannot think clearly and so our arguments are invalid by definition. To think that this is the kind of reasoning that keeps suicide functionally illegal or painfully impractical for so many people the world doesn't want and who can't, therefore, afford to stay alive, and for whom life is extremely lonely and painful. I'm very grateful for sanctionedsuicide.com, but being relegated to hidden forums keeps our perspectives, experiences, values, and rational arguments out of the broader public political/legislative domain where we--our numbers--need to be to challenge the oppressive and unjust status quo. I'm so disillusioned and angry I can barely get out of bed.

 

[Psilo]

Guys don't you get it? These people are making money by keeping us alive, of course they want to deprive us from the right to die. It's money... Money it is.

In the middle ages you think anybody would care if someone commited suicide? I don't think so.

In the 21rst century you can make money out of everything, no matter how right or wrong it is.

That the reality.

 

[21Neberg]

Her reply was essentially that suicidals cannot think clearly and so our arguments are invalid by definition.

Arguing with pro-lifers is just so useless... they truly cannot imagine any other opinion than their own.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

I always found the argument that those who are suicidal do not think clearly to be vapid at best. Certainly there are cases where this is true for some, perhaps even many it's a choice more logical than emotional. I suspect that is why people find themselves here. Society tries to force your life upon you and in doing so makes the task more difficult than necessary.

 

[Lil_Intro_Vert]

oh man, i love being invalidated and told that i don't know how to think clearly lmao

 

[Redt2go]

There's a popular online blog started by a social worker therapist about why she opposes suicide. It's not surprising that a professional who makes money counseling the suicidal opposes suicide. But her blog's comment section is many years old and 95% or more of the many, many, many commenters are people describing how miserable their lives are and why, therefore, they are pro-suicide. The stories are heartbreaking. The therapist/social worker comments sometimes, but despite having a PhD in her field, she gives the most vacuous responses full of false assumptions, irrelevant personal values, and irritating platitudes. Again, nothing new to anyone who's ever announced publicly they're suicidal.

What makes me fume, though, is that this ... therapist actively censors comments that break no laws whatsoever whenever the commenter criticizes the therapist's viewpoint strongly enough. Recently, another blog owner commented on the site I'm talking about. She mentioned her struggles with gender identity--how painful it's been emotionally, how she's been in numerous treatments to no avail, how she's poor and barely surviving due to the widespread discrimination, and how she suffers gravely from isolation and loneliness. This blogger also criticized the therapist for her position that suicide is never, ever justifiable. That therapy is always appropriate and effective. The therapist replied by calling the other blogger insensitive and cruel for opposing others' access to suffering-ending therapy. Several other commenters respectfully chimed in, pointing out the therapist had misrepresented the other blogger's position as "no one should ever get therapy." The other blogger had said that some people's cases are so very bad that therapy is ineffective for THEM. Because the therapist couldn't "win" the argument against the other blogger and because other commenters supported the other blogger, the therapist then deleted the entire thread.

I wrote in to the therapist that her censorship was ineffective, anti-intellectual, and counter-productive. Her reply was essentially that suicidals cannot think clearly and so our arguments are invalid by definition. To think that this is the kind of reasoning that keeps suicide functionally illegal or painfully impractical for so many people the world doesn't want and who can't, therefore, afford to stay alive, and for whom life is extremely lonely and painful. I'm very grateful for sanctionedsuicide.com, but being relegated to hidden forums keeps our perspectives, experiences, values, and rational arguments out of the broader public political/legislative domain where we--our numbers--need to be to challenge the oppressive and unjust status quo. I'm so disillusioned and angry I can barely get out of bed.

Suicide is very disturbing and forces people to confront that life is not always amazing and beautiful for everyone. I think this is why people try to sleep it under the rug. I think if humans exist in 100 years it will be a lot more common. Still hard to believe that gay marriage was illegal in the us like only 10 years ago. Homosexuality literally was and still is taboo around the world. In some places you can be killed for it. So yeah .... We have a long way to go in general. Suicide will definitely be 'closeted' for a LONG while

Edit: I know these struggles are in no way the same however they are issues of exercising personal freedom that is affected by public opinion and law

 

[Misanthrope]

I find it frustrating that so little effort is made to study rational suicide. I could also point out this therapist is engaged in all or nothing thinking and absolutist thinking often denies nuanced reality, so maybe they should look at their own cognitive errors?

But to be honest the behaviour you explain is not much different to what happens elsewhere. Go on a natural news website and point out that Toxins is a marketing word and rubbing untested fruit concoctions that are being sold on that site as cures, is no cure for anything as there is no evidence. If there was evidence I am sure the stock market would be reacting… Then no doubt you will end up censored and shut down. Don't ever dare point out the chemical makeup of the banana either! Holy shit that makes me a dangerous shill so obviously I can be ignored. It is all just dismissive tactics to maintain the status quo.

This behaviour is because people invest in a system or ideology and will defend it. Even more so if they are making money from it. Which that therapist is. If they can't, because you bring evidence to the table they will find excuses to dismiss you instead or outright ban you. Unfortunately, when it comes to rational suicide, the ones meant to be at the forefront of understanding are the very ones not studying it because the rationally suicidal won't need a therapist or expensive meds.

 

[Moldova_3k]

Guys don't you get it? These people are making money by keeping us alive, of course they want to deprive us from the right to die. It's money... Money it is.

In the middle ages you think anybody would care if someone commited suicide? I don't think so.

In the 21rst century you can make money out of everything, no matter how right or wrong it is.

That the reality.

That is so true! Seen it myself with psychiatrist. 850$ without insurance and you had to send claim into insurance to get reimbursed. He wanted to see me every week.

 

[Redt2go]

I find it frustrating that so little effort is made to study rational suicide. I could also point out this therapist is engaged in all or nothing thinking and absolutist thinking often denies nuanced reality, so maybe they should look at their own cognitive errors?

But to be honest the behaviour you explain is not much different to what happens elsewhere. Go on a natural news website and point out that Toxins is a marketing word and rubbing untested fruit concoctions that are being sold on that site as cures, is no cure for anything as there is no evidence. If there was evidence I am sure the stock market would be reacting… Then no doubt you will end up censored and shut down. Don't ever dare point out the chemical makeup of the banana either! Holy shit that makes me a dangerous shill so obviously I can be ignored. It is all just dismissive tactics to maintain the status quo.

This behaviour is because people invest in a system or ideology and will defend it. Even more so if they are making money from it. Which that therapist is. If they can't, because you bring evidence to the table they will find excuses to dismiss you instead or outright ban you. Unfortunately, when it comes to rational suicide, the ones meant to be at the forefront of understanding are the very ones not studying it because the rationally suicidal won't need a therapist or expensive meds.

Philosophers have done a lot of research on rational suicide. It's just not mainstream because well it's suicide.

I definitely agree with your last paragraph though

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Unfortunately, when it comes to rational suicide, the ones meant to be at the forefront of understanding are the very ones not studying it because the rationally suicidal won't need a therapist or expensive meds.

Exactly.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Philosophers have done a lot of research on rational suicide. It's just not mainstream because well it's suicide.

Agreed. Not to mention the volumes of research that discredits the assumed biological basis of most depression being dismissed in favor of a cherished value system.

 

[TAW122]

I find it frustrating that so little effort is made to study rational suicide. I could also point out this therapist is engaged in all or nothing thinking and absolutist thinking often denies nuanced reality, so maybe they should look at their own cognitive errors?

But to be honest the behaviour you explain is not much different to what happens elsewhere. Go on a natural news website and point out that Toxins is a marketing word and rubbing untested fruit concoctions that are being sold on that site as cures, is no cure for anything as there is no evidence. If there was evidence I am sure the stock market would be reacting… Then no doubt you will end up censored and shut down. Don't ever dare point out the chemical makeup of the banana either! Holy shit that makes me a dangerous shill so obviously I can be ignored. It is all just dismissive tactics to maintain the status quo.

This behaviour is because people invest in a system or ideology and will defend it. Even more so if they are making money from it. Which that therapist is. If they can't, because you bring evidence to the table they will find excuses to dismiss you instead or outright ban you. Unfortunately, when it comes to rational suicide, the ones meant to be at the forefront of understanding are the very ones not studying it because the rationally suicidal won't need a therapist or expensive meds.

That is the sad state of society today. Also, I believe that your last paragraph is very sound and makes a lot of sense. The people (society) at large don't want their system to falter so they censor and suppress anything that goes against them or threatens their precious perfected views.

 

[Misanthrope]

Philosophers have done a lot of research on rational suicide. It's just not mainstream because well it's suicide.

I definitely agree with your last paragraph though

I don't know if philosophers can make a dent against this monolith wrapped in pseudoscience that wont even define non-disordered... I was more talking about the psychiatric profession that has rendered standard human behaviour down to disorders. With such vague and loose definitions. If this labelling is anything to go by then my guinea pigs are severely mentally ill these days...

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

Welcome to the fascist pro life

 

[KatieW]

Arguing with pro-lifers is just so useless... they truly cannot imagine any other opinion than their own.

A pro-lifer is sorta terrorist who insists happy living must die.

 

[snowman626]

Pro life is code word for "idc how much youre suffering as long as youre alive thats all that matters." if you lost all your limbs in a car crash and have no will to live these are the same types of people to say "Oh well at least youre lucky to be alive."

 

[TAW122]

Pro life is code word for "idc how much youre suffering as long as youre alive thats all that matters." if you lost all your limbs in a car crash and have no will to live these are the same types of people to say "Oh well at least youre lucky to be alive."

I'd either try to VSED or get assisted suicide, but failing that, at least I can spit at them and curse until I'm dead. If/when I'm in that situation, really fuck honor and morals, because nothing else matters anymore as nothing one can do would change the outcome. Of course, though I'm not saying that everyone should give up their morals and standards, but me personally, I do have a 'nothing to lose' attitude when in dire situations or situations where I know I can't get any lower.

 

[JohnDoe1]

Google doesn't even auto-completes the word "suicide"...

An example - google vs bing

 

[Jiva]

Thank you for i can talking with you here. Only other suicidal people can understand. Psychiatrists, psychologists are only theorists. Maybe in high age someone can understand it, but many of them know nothing.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Google doesn't even auto-completes the word "suicide"...

An example - google vs bing

View attachment 7084 View attachment 7085

This is awesome. I suppose, like the therapist social worker, they think they can ignore what they don't like out of existence.

 

[Memento Mori]

This is awesome. I suppose, like the therapist social worker, they think they can ignore what they don't like out of existence.

suicide, global warming, worldwide suffering, all these things are just tales you tell other people when you're bored drinking champagner all day. It's a prank bro

 

[Redt2go]

suicide, global warming, worldwide suffering, all these things are just tales you tell other people when you're bored drinking champagner all day. It's a prank bro

I'm confused

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I'm confused

I thought MM meant the establishment considers all those things irrelevant or just drunken fantasies not worth their time...

 

[Memento Mori]

I'm confused

no need to worry, just don't overthink to these hypotheses or you'll go insane and your palms will grow hair.

I thought MM meant the establishment considers all those things irrelevant or just drunken fantasies not worth their time...

yes. let's fight the bad of the world with ignoring it, it always works out as you can see.


there's so much to hate on earth and since we got to the point that we don't care because we need more comfort and faster drones for triple bigmacs there's no return. you can't beat daintiness out of humanity anymoe :(

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

Arguing with pro-lifers is just so useless... they truly cannot imagine any other opinion than their own.

Funny, it's kind of like talking about epilepsy with healthy people. For me, at least.
They understand that shit is happening. Shit they cannot comprehend. And yet, I often find myself stared at like a zoo animal. I'm genuinely excited about my upcoming temporal lobec(o)tomy.
tldr: it involves removing about a quarter of my skull for a short period of time.
When THAT part is mentioned, suddenly, they recoil in disgust and call me insane for wanting my skull drilled into and having a part of it removed.
Even professional neurologists and neurosurgeons (well, one. Haven't met others.) cannot understand what an epileptic aura is, and I can't describe it because there are no words to explain it, not properly, at least.
I've met ONE person who understood me - a former paraplegic.
He had some nodes fried or something, and the surgeon cracked his head open, shot some lasers at his brain, and glued it back together. Despite our differences, we clicked and spoke for a while. I felt like I understand his woes while he understood mine. It was like a telepathic connection.

Paraplegic:"Oh man, I remember the brain feeling, especially feeling my brain!"
Me:"Yeah, I feel my brain a lot too. Hoping this guy makes me feel my brain less. Even not at all."
Para:"What do you have?"
Me:"Epilepsy. The auras are strong."
Para:"Damn, I heard of those! Is it that bad?"
Me:"It's worse."

The surgeon, though? He stared at us like we're aliens. Definitely an interesting hour or so. It felt kind of racist calling people who never experienced this sort of thing "healthies" (closest translation), yet at the same time, it was sort of appropriate. They never went even a step in our shoes.
I'm guessing that's what happening here. We found a community that understands us on a level "healthies" simply cannot.

 

[Sixfeetunder]

I remember being in the psych ward and it just didn't make sense to me why I should stick around when I'm unhappy because "it can get better." I was also told it's okay if I have suicidal thoughts and am depressed as long as I don't act on them. But they couldn't give me a logical reason as to why. Hopefully one day we'll believe people have the right to die and every adult over 18/21 can get physician assisted suicide. Of course there should be some procedures in place so that it isn't impulsive, but there should be a right to die. It's silly that we're forced into this existence against our will, and criminals on death row have a right to a more peaceful death than we do.

 

[Redt2go]

I remember being in the psych ward and it just didn't make sense to me why I should stick around when I'm unhappy because "it can get better." I was also told it's okay if I have suicidal thoughts and am depressed as long as I don't act on them. But they couldn't give me a logical reason as to why. Hopefully one day we'll believe people have the right to die and every adult over 18/21 can get physician assisted suicide. Of course there should be some procedures in place so that it isn't impulsive, but there should be a right to die. It's silly that we're forced into this existence against our will, and criminals on death row have a right to a more peaceful death than we do.

I honestly believe if this existed far less people would commit suicide. Knowing there's a painless way to go. They wouldn't feel rushed to know there's always an out. I think they would be able to more rationally evaluate their life and their future. Also just like alcohol if it were regulated then it'd be safer in general... People wouldn't be traumatized by jumpers and bystanders wouldn't be killed in car accident suicides etc

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I was also told it's okay if I have suicidal thoughts and am depressed as long as I don't act on them.

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I remember "therapists" telling me that over and over. So frustrating. It's like telling a gay person it's OK to be homosexual as long as they don't act on their urges. Just too cruel.

And you're also right about some inmates on death row having more of a right to a peaceful exit than most of us suicidals. ...

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I honestly believe if this existed far less people would commit suicide. Knowing there's a painless way to go. They wouldn't feel rushed to know there's always an out.

Absolutely agree. My parents had a full bar right in the middle of our house's main entrance when I was growing up. Full of tobacco & alcohol. They never lectured me not to use any of the stuff. The one thing they told me I couldn't have was candy. I don't drink but I have a major sugar addiction. I agree that ordering people not to do a lot of things can make those things much more alluring. Knowing there's no easy way out, I spend a lot of my time researching ... ways out.

 

[ForestLove]

Pro life is code word for "idc how much youre suffering as long as youre alive thats all that matters." if you lost all your limbs in a car crash and have no will to live these are the same types of people to say "Oh well at least youre lucky to be alive."

Where is the quality of life then?