Resource SN FAQ - Storage, Recovery, Death

[Quarky00]

Massive FAQ dump .

Death .
Official	"SN Poisoning" Easily detectable, nothing more to it.
How does it work exactly?	Blood cells do not carry oxygen, though lungs continue to supply it, and brain is still working. Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours . SN also causes blood cell destruction, plus circulatory disorder (blood cannot flow to tissue).
What's the medical state?	The body can be described as suffering: hemolytic anemia, "blood failure", or anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen". Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood' . It shares similarities with CO2 poisoning .
Is it like suffocation?	No. Suffocation (hypoxic hypoxia) is a stressful experience, involving reflexes, pain, and rapid damage within minutes. SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Will my brain continue to function?	Yes. Brain continues to function, even with 30% oxygen level. SN is a gradual slow process.
Will I feel death?	No, if regime followed. With low oxygen levels you faint and lose consciousness. Brain goes into "sleep mode" – everything keeps working, but you fall asleep.
Can it be disguised as accident?	Never . Your face turns blue and your blood turns dark -- that's visible . It cannot be disguised as hypothermia or suffocation
Can I donate organs?	Never. Suspicion of either suicide or poisoning forbids that. Autopsy and inquest required , cannot harvest organs (even if permitted) .
Do you "fall asleep" due to hypoxia or sedatives?	Either or both. SN: faint around 13m , unconsciousness around 20m. Benzo: taking several can knock out , in 15m-30m So either / both You may time to be asleep when SN affects
. Recovery .
SN fatal even in small dosages?	YES. DO NOT TRY OR TASTE IT.
Can I recover?	YES – with HOSPITAL CARE.
Can I recover on my own?	NO.
What happens in recovery/hospital?	Methylene Blue is an antidote. Minute dosage of it increases oxygen from fatal 20% to healthy 90% within 30-60m. Patients regain consciousness within 2-8 hours; dissmissed after 1-3 days; unless kept for psychiatric evaluation. Hospitals sometime follow further procedures, but these were not found to be crucial just supportive, may hasten recovery: Oxygen therapy, Ascorbic acid (MetHb elimination), Cimetidine (reduces hematotoxins).
Can I be rescued?	YES. Usually within 1-2 hours. Sometimes up to 3-4h after ingestion.
Will I have permanent damage?	NO – You either die or recover Plethora of SN poisoning cases with no medical evidence of damage. Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
If only small amount digested can I recover alone?	NO . This is extremely rare .
Will I have permanent damage if SN taken without medical intervention?	No. You will not have permanent damage. But you won't survive – scenario very unlikely – without rescue 99% fatal.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen, kills brain cells in 4 minutes). Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link Possible temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) – spontanously healed after few days [1]
Chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: Out of thousands poisoning cases throughout centuries – there are no such documented cases. [1] [2] "The Chinese Case" is not documented , we don't know patient background , and family claims malpractice . The child is not vegetative but brain dead (no chances of waking up). It is not a good case to study . [1]
Storage .
Primer	SN acts much like table salt (NaCl). Hygroscopic – absorbs water . Does not reactwith water but dissolves to ions , suspended between H20 molecules . Google "reactions vs ionic solution" . Dissolves readily up to 40% (see graph) Should not be heated . Combustible .
Solid​
Can I open and close bottle?	YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .
Refrigerate?	No. SN is not reactive (only to moisture, heat, strong acid/base) In industry kept at room temperature for years – simple plastic container Refrigerators have moisture – don't overdo [1]
Extreme weather for transport/storage problem?	No. SN is transported in all climates without any heating/cooling. SN is simply not reactive – only to moisture, acid, extreme heat, etc
Solution (liquid)​
Will it go bad quickly?	NO. Only after few hours. Strong solutions (40%) are potent and durable . Weaker solutions will slightly react to create nitrates (aquarium) . Labs store 40% solution in room temperature, open and close it, so some oxygen is fine. Pure 100%, required in delicate biochem tests (DNA), must be prepared freshly ; but 99% is fine for us . Labs use purified water and under sterile condition.
How long is it potent?	At least several hours, if not more. It has nothing to react with – but minute minerals, dirt, etc in drinking water .
Should I refrigerate?	No. While labs store 40% solution, our water is "dirty", and we lack sterile environment. Cooling should not cause SN to change behaviour , but don't . See saturation/temperature graph (OP)
Should I use heated water?	No. SN , like salt , readily dissolves in room temperature water . Stir it . Heating will cause SN to change behaviour – don't.
Summary​
	Water Solution Few Hours Packed Air-Tight Few Years Clumps, temporary exposure to air , are okay Air Few Weeks Will lose potency slowly, due to humidity (H2O) not oxygen

SN Intake .
Common symptoms?	Stan's Guide Success/failure stories – provide full testimonies It's individual. Each member mentioned something else -- that another wasn't worried about.
"Pain"?	Issue are NOT painful, but bad sensory/mental experience for many
Burning throat	Some report mild painful – most haven't
Fast heart rate	Some report 200bpm – like strenuous sprinting but while sitting down – can be scary. Can induce anxiety – see Benzo, Beta-Blockers. Again others were not that bothered.
Taste​
Taste	SN tastes like salt [1] . In high concentration that is disgusting . Some report bad taste – others didn't care. Taste rarely causes vomiting itself Amitryptyline > N > SN (least horrible) Discomfort documented [1][2] – taste complaints "very disgusting" (few felt nothing)
Salt trial	This is not a recommended practice. If very worried – may test with regular kitchen salt. It is not required. Members tried [1] [2] [3] Mostly safe but careful , research Some reported SN taste – don't try! – see above threads .
How to take SN	Quick shot to back of throat – best practice. Don't sip [1] Straw (direct to throat) was suggested , some used – too slow sucking SN? Discussed dozens times, search threads.
Aftertaste	Something strong to overcome taste Without much calories , acidity , irritation Avoid ingestion – at least 10 minutes to allow SN intake [1]
Aftertaste – Tips	Suck ice cube before/after – reduce taste, soothes (see here) Drink 50ml ice water – refreshing (don't drink much) Gargle mouthwash (or water) Suck on: Chocolate tablet Mint Bit honey , jam Anything that won't be ingested / irritate stomach
Vomiting ​
Vomiting	SN fatal even if vomited 50ml on empty stomach (very little) – no prolonged / severe / violent vomitin
Servings / Vomiting practice	Stan's Practice – 3 Servings If vomit before fainting – drink next serving Don't force drink #2 – body already absorbed SN Following Stan practice, example: Serving Serving What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 20g Drank all & vomited a lot 20g 15g 5g #2 20g Partially drank serving & vomited some 14g 7g 7g #3 20g Never used Total SN 12g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – may take more SN Fainting around 12m indicates fatality – sufficient SN absorption (no need for more)
PPH practice , vomiting	PPH Practice - 1 Big Serving Serving Size What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 25g Vomited 25g 15g 10g Total SN 10g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – still fatal – no need for more SN
Dosage​
PPH / Stan	To absorb more SN despite possible vomit -- two strategies emerged: PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g Stan's multiple serving – if vomit take more, 3 x 20g Notes: How many actually drank several servings? Unconfirmed [1] Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed
Dosage	PPH = 1 x 25g Stan = 3 x 20g
Over 100kg	PPH = 1x 35g Stan = 3x 25g
Under 60kg *	This had been suggested by some , but not confirmed. PPH = 1x 20g Stan = 3x 15g * We have no evidence that special practice is required . PPH addresses old fragile people , many underweight .
Table per weight?	Not required . jgm63 table is mathematical/theoretical and may complicate preparation [1] . We have no info on those dosages , may use at own discretion .
Warnings​
Double dose?	DON'T. Double dose may do the opposite (vomiting all instead of some), though we don't know and PPH have doubled the dose through the years.
Routes of administration?	DON'T. Search threads. Enema – strong salts burn and literally destroy membranes . (example , more) Capsules – need quick SN and in intestines -- capsules interfere , not practical (details , absorption) IV / Injection -- Vein will collapse , SN won't enter blood (destroy membranes) [1] ; not practical [2] [3]
Alcohol	DON'T. Search threads. 100ml alcohol changes everything Stomach acidity, metabolism, and absorption (even 3h after drink) Vomit more and/or violently Opposite effects -- increase anxiety/headache Recommendation is to barely drink water for max SN absorption, additions are counter productive, don't mix poisons.
Weed / Marijuana / MDMA	DON'T. Search threads. Weed not strong antiemetic Psychoactive effects while ctb – hazardous Intensify feeling – panic & survival instinct Freak out , unpredictable Combining 2 extreme experiences in one Example , example , example , and plenty more
Can I drink after SN?	NO. Read members testimonies. Your stomach will be in turmoil , interacting with SN , with chances of vomiting -- adding more to the mix is bad. [1] Suggested aftertaste solutions, and small gulp of water, would do little harm.

~

Fasting .
Timeline	5h before SN– light meal – start fasting. Individual , may consider 4h or 6h Avoid alcohol Next 3 hours– water, non-acidic juices – moderation (glass or two) Avoid acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks. See snack options Next hour – Only water. Drink freely , that is few glasses (not litres) [1] Next hour – complete fast (no drinking) After SN– may have a small chocolate tablet or mint etc for taste Don't overdo – may cause nausea Example and discussion
Timeline (brief)	00:00 Light meal , start fasting Water ok Some snacks , light juices 03:00 Only water 04:00 Stop water 05:00 SN Intake
Juices	Juices/shakes made with either carrot, aloe, cabbage, beet, watermelon, spinach, cucumber, pear, etc You know your stomach better.
Snacks	Fruit & veg – simple non-acidic, small amount. Candy – simple sugars, no fat, up to 100 calories Apples are acidic and fiberous (long travel in intestines) but 1 small apple 4h before SN could be ok – you know your stomach.
Acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks?	Avoid. If must have – 3h before SN intake (at most 2h) Not recommended
Original PPH timeline (strict)	8h before intake – light meal , start fasting Next 6 hours: Some water. If must drink – small amounts of non-acidic juices Next 2 hours: Complete fast – no drinking
Why did it change?	Quick gastric emptying for fluids and simple sugars pH returns to normal 1h after emptying Intestines partially empty – is sufficient for SN absorption See detailed version with data

 

[Busdriver]

What an excellent overview. Best overview of information of any topic I have read ever!!

 

[one4all]

@Quarky00 As always.. nice dump.
Punn intended LOL

 

[Quarky00]

@Quarky00 As always.. nice dump.
Punn intended LOL

Lol . You always make me laugh !

@Busdriver , Ever ?? I'm bit embarrassed and stressed now lol

 

[one4all]

Lol . You always make me laugh !

Well at least i am effecting one persons life, in hopefully positive way.

 

[Busdriver]

Lol . You always make me laugh !

@Busdriver , Ever ?? I'm bit embarrassed and stressed now lol

Yes, ever! It is better than p*rn

 

[Quarky00]

Yes, ever! It is better than p*rn

Well at least i am effecting one persons life, in hopefully positive way.

Yes . I appreciate small moments I smile . Thank you .

 

[one4all]

Yes . I appreciate small moments I smile . Thank you .

I do have my moments No need to thank me. It's just part of the asshole in me

 

[Busdriver]

@Quarky00 have you tested your SN?
There is the blood test and also there are test strips to check purity of SN.

Blood test is a bit unreliable, but the aquarium test strips seem ok, don't you think?

 

[PhilosOfDoom]

I'd like to have your thoughts on possible tissue hypoxia. Because the blood does not, or does so in insufficient quantities, deliver oxygen to tissue, this can be caused. If hemoglobin does not regenerate, or blood supply does not restore, it seems to be able to cause inflammation and become hypoxic; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3259566/. This a concern of mine if someone perhaps did an insufficient dose that didn't cause necessary effects, but may lead to tissue damage.
Do you have any places or articles for further research?

 

[Quarky00]

@Quarky00 have you tested your SN?
There is the blood test and also there are test strips to check purity of SN.
Blood test is a bit unreliable, but the aquarium test strips seem ok, don't you think?

I did not bother as my supplier is reliable . I don't like inaccurate tests , for example I've always hated pH stripes ;) But other have used it a lot .

I'd like to have your thoughts on possible tissue hypoxia. Because the blood does not, or does so in insufficient quantities, deliver oxygen to tissue, this can be caused. If hemoglobin does not regenerate, or blood supply does not restore, it seems to be able to cause inflammation and become hypoxic; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3259566/. This a concern of mine if someone perhaps did an insufficient dose that didn't cause necessary effects, but may lead to tissue damage.Do you have any places or articles for further research?

Tissue hypoxia indeed happens , this was detailed here , research provided (see first post), is that not clear enough ?......

How does it work exactly?	Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours .
Will I have permanent damage?	Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link

 

[PhilosOfDoom]

I did not bother as my supplier is reliable . I don't like inaccurate tests , for example I've always hated pH stripes ;) But other have used it a lot .


Tissue hypoxia indeed happens , this was detailed here , research provided (see first post), is that not clear enough ?......

How does it work exactly?	Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours .
Will I have permanent damage?	Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link

Didn't see "see research link." However, I just wanted your thoughts on inflammation and cell death as apart of the "permanent damage" if left alone. Possible irreversable cell damage if left untreated/checked after insufficient dosage. The swelling, and membrane disruption partially due to lowered ATP could potassium and calcium influx, calcium activating phospholipases which signal inflammation. If hemoglobin is not restored to normal function swiftly. Calcium also encourages cell breakdown. Source; https://www.nursingtimes.net/archiv...art-2-responses-following-hypoxia-01-07-2003/. If given medical attention, this is void due to the immediate resolutions and medical treatment. Didn't want any changes to faq, it's actually really accurate, good job on the research btw.

TLDR; Could leave irreversable cell damage if left untreated and survived, not just brain damage.

 

[Quarky00]

Didn't see "see research link." However, I just wanted your thoughts on inflammation and cell death as apart of the "permanent damage" if left alone. Possible irreversable cell damage if left untreated/checked after insufficient dosage. The swelling, and membrane disruption partially due to lowered ATP could potassium and calcium influx, calcium activating phospholipases which signal inflammation. If hemoglobin is not restored to normal function swiftly. Calcium also encourages cell breakdown. Source; https://www.nursingtimes.net/archiv...art-2-responses-following-hypoxia-01-07-2003/. If given medical attention, this is void due to the immediate resolutions and medical treatment. Didn't want any changes to faq, it's actually really accurate, good job on the research btw.

TLDR; Could leave irreversable cell damage if left untreated and survived, not just brain damage.

There is no irreversible tissue damage as cells continue anaerobic . There is no ATP, calcium as that's cellular level , we're talking systematic collapse within 30m . Organs will fail to function as a whole but cells are still alive, usually heart stops beating (and if other organs die first- heart quickly follows). I don't understand "cell inflammation" in the context of massive quick circulatory failure .

The article you quoted is about respiratory failure . We are talking about hemolytic anemia and anemic hypoxia . These are different . An example from that article:

The formation of lactic acid
Consequently, the results of anaerobic metabolism are the production of lactic acid and a reduction in the energy available for cell work. Lactic acidosis reduces myocardial contractility, arteriolar responsiveness to further adrenaline and noradrenaline release, potentiating vasomotor collapse and stimulating the intravascular clotting mechanism.
However, acidaemia has the beneficial effect of shifting the oxyhaemoglobin dissociation curve to the right, thereby facilitating the release of oxygen from haemoglobin (Marieb, 2001).

What is "further adrenaline release" or "oxygen from hemogolobin"? "Arteriolar responsiveness"? There is none. You have severe circulatory failure , no blood flowing , no oxygen , no hemogolobin , INSTANT ANEMIA -- not respiratory failure.

 

[PhilosOfDoom]

There is no irreversible tissue damage as cells continue anaerobic . There is no ATP, calcium as that's cellular level , we're talking systematic collapse within 30m . Organs will fail to function as a whole but cells are still alive, usually heart stops beating (and if other organs die first- heart quickly follows). I don't understand "cell inflammation" in the context of massive quick circulatory failure .

The article you quoted is about respiratory failure . We are talking about hemolytic anemia and anemic hypoxia . These are different . An example from that article:


What is "further adrenaline release" or "oxygen from hemogolobin"? "Arteriolar responsiveness"? There is none. You have severe circulatory failure , no blood flowing , no oxygen , no hemogolobin , INSTANT ANEMIA -- not respiratory failure.

I was working along the premise that there was insufficient quantity or intake of sn to generate organ failure, and you'd regain consciousness due to insufficient dosage. If you were to suffer from total body failure, you wouldn't care about tissue inflammation, or long term brain damage, or any other organ, you'd be unconscious and dying. You'd be fully dead and un-revivable within 6 hours at the most. Before that you'd already suffer from bodily damage that is beyond injury. Perhaps it's idiotic of me to run along that premise, you'd need miniscule microdoses to fully survive afterwards without any medical attention, and for what I listed to take place. You can go unconscious with just 1 gram as it is. Apologies, it's a rare scenario not worth worrying. Proper dosage renders these thoughts unwarranted and impractical. Good luck.

 

[Quarky00]

I was working along the premise that there was insufficient quantity or intake of sn to generate organ failure, and you'd regain consciousness due to insufficient dosage.

Ah sorry I missed that I now understand what you meant with inflammation . You are worried about a mild (non fatal) SN poisoning . Few members here tried taking SN , which is of course not recommended . metHb of 20% will cause symptoms but it's not enough to deprive whole tissues of oxygen to a level it "destroys" them . Does that answer your question ?

You still have 80% blood/tissue oxygen which is a lot , at least for our time frame . Now if cells do die , it's singular and should not cause wide spread inflammation . At that point your body will either recover (say you took little SN) and be fine , or will spiral down (say you took a lot of SN) . If you go to 60% , 70% metHb you're spiraling down , and we have described that . Now if you are saved by methylene blue after 40m with 80% metHb (which is deadly) your tissues still don't suffer permanent damage . Tissues recover spontaneously , because the damage is not long or severe enough. Your brain keeps functioning. Your lungs keep working (no "bad signals" there). Your tissues mostly keep functioning , on "emergency mode" etc . It's not like suffocatoin . It's not like CO poisoning .

Perhaps it's idiotic of me to run along that premise, you'd need miniscule microdoses to fully survive afterwards without any medical attention, and for what I listed to take place.

Not idiotic at all . We don't know the dosage that is harmful .. So not necessarily miniscule .. That's because some SN interacts with stomach juices , small amount , and we don't know how much .

You can go unconscious with just 1 gram as it is.

Probably , though a member here took that amount .

A patient had 94% metHb , which means only 6% oxygen blood , and was rescued and perfectly fine . So yes it's an extremely rare scenario .. Basically impossible .

 

[PhilosOfDoom]

Ah sorry I missed that I now understand what you meant with inflammation . You are worried about a mild (non fatal) SN poisoning . Few members here tried taking SN , which is of course not recommended . metHb of 20% will cause symptoms but it's not enough to deprive whole tissues of oxygen to a level it "destroys" them . Does that answer your question ?

You still have 80% blood/tissue oxygen which is a lot , at least for our time frame . Now if cells do die , it's singular and should not cause wide spread inflammation . At that point your body will either recover (say you took little SN) and be fine , or will spiral down (say you took a lot of SN) . If you go to 60% , 70% metHb you're spiraling down , and we have described that . Now if you are saved by methylene blue after 40m with 80% metHb (which is deadly) your tissues still don't suffer permanent damage . Tissues recover spontaneously , because the damage is not long or severe enough. Your brain keeps functioning. Your lungs keep working (no "bad signals" there). Your tissues mostly keep functioning , on "emergency mode" etc . It's not like suffocatoin . It's not like CO poisoning .


Not idiotic at all . We don't know the dosage that is harmful .. So not necessarily miniscule .. That's because some SN interacts with stomach juices , small amount , and we don't know how much .


Probably , though a member here took that amount .

A patient had 94% metHb , which means only 6% oxygen blood , and was rescued and perfectly fine . So yes it's an extremely rare scenario .. Basically impossible .

Ah, so, if there were any permanent cell death, it would be too negligible to consider, and with minimal sn consumption, tissue would recover. That removes my qualms with sn, thanks so much for the help. Can I ask your perspective on something? So, in one case of sn poisoning, the autopsy came back with 9.7 mmol/L of lactic acid, almost 6 above for acidosis. What do you think is the primary cause of discomfort for people taking sn? From what I've searched, I know the acidosis can have symptoms of fatigue, weakness, heartbeat etc. And, that gastric juices which Stan mentions contains it, and can also contribute. I don't know if it's lactic cause people who take antacids have also reported, maybe it's just the SN digestion process? I find I'm curious.

 

[Quarky00]

if there were any permanent cell death, it would be too negligible to consider, and with minimal sn consumption, tissue would recover.

Exactly . That appears to be the case (I'm no expert) .

SN is unique in that sense. I would at least expect some rare case with some damage -- say in 1 patient out of 1000 poisonings. Nothing.

What do you think is the primary cause of discomfort for people taking sn? From what I've searched, I know the acidosis can have symptoms of fatigue, weakness, heartbeat etc.

That's not due to acidosis , but lack of oxygen. Within 5-10m oxygen drops to 85%. The primary cause of discomfort for people taking SN is .. well.. SN ;)

 

[PhilosOfDoom]

Exactly . That appears to be the case (I'm no expert) .

SN is unique in that sense. I would at least expect some rare case with some damage -- say in 1 patient out of 1000 poisonings. Nothing.


That's not due to acidosis , but lack of oxygen. Within 5-10m oxygen drops to 85%. The primary cause of discomfort for people taking SN is .. well.. SN ;)

Ahhhh. Thanks for answering my questions regarding sn. You've researched a ton, I presume that'd be your method of choice if you ever ctb? I couldn't be as well-versed concerning sn, I'd be boggled at the terms themselves probably xD.

 

[Quarky00]

Storage question - Disposal

I was therefore asking myself how to discard any extra to avoid pollution and biohazard

Why bother? Police will take care of that.

See if your work has proper chemical disposal instructions. In the case your work does not, you should be able to dump NaNO2 down the drain when it has been dissolved with water, as long as you're not dumping it in a drinking water supply. Once it has been oxidized and dissolved with water, it'll turn into nitrate and that's already something that exists in our ecosystem. If you have tons of it, I would not recommend disposing it down the drain. Instead look at properly disposing it. If it's a couple grams you'll be okay.

 

[Bob_Luman]

So from my understanding, if I order SN online I shouldn't worry about it going bad? If kept at normal room temp and not too hot? So away from radiators etc?

 

[enjolras]

Storage question - Disposal
Why bother? Police will take care of that.

I did buy a little army of SN at once to :
* keep a core supply that I'll never open until the last minute (the original mylar bag packaging appears excellent enough, with very little space for air at all, that I want to maintain the original seal intact)
* have extras destined at tests only, to monitor initial purity and degradation, at intervals spaced over time ...for those, I will basically waste and discard the amounts in excess
* trick LE in case I get a visit (mix of paranoia and good practice)

My general idea is to not rely on one unit I'd let untested, let time fly, then realize there's a shortcoming of supply, to discover ineffectiveness or worse, doubt it (if testing access N/A). In the past, I lived this experience, just to feel trapped with discomfort
That might look like overdoing it, but I know that my mental state sometimes disapproves the theories learned... so that's the only way for my peace of mind to maintain its sanity. I'm not forcing this recommandation to anyone else

So yeah, I want to dispose of the garbage without "shitting in the pool", give some rest to the planet earth (I enjoy the idea it will have a major break when I leave ! though I'm already not a "consumer" by general standards)

 

[Quarky00]

I did buy a little army of SN at once to :
* keep a core supply that I'll never open until the last minute (the original mylar bag packaging appears excellent enough, with very little space for air at all, that I want to maintain the original seal untouched)
* have extras destined at tests only, to monitor initial purity and degradation, at intervals spaced over time ...for those, I will basically waste and discard the amounts in excess
* trick LE in case I get a visit (mix of paranoia and good practice)

My general idea is to not rely on one unit I'd let untested, let time fly, then realize there's a shortcoming of supply, discover ineffectiveness or doubt it. In the past, I lived this experience, just to feel trapped with discomfort
That might look like overdoing it, but I know that my mental state sometimes disapproves the theories learned... so that's the only way for my peace of mind to maintain its sanity

So yeah, I want to dispose of the garbage without "shitting in the pool", give some rest to the planet earth (I enjoy the idea it will have a major break when I leave !)

"Found with 3T of SN at home"

If you have the means , time , and energy it's always better to be on the super-ultra-safe side , and yeah overdoing it We're all afraid about ctb and doing things excessively calms that anxiety (I believe a deranged member here wrote a crazy over the top FAQ).

As for the practical issues- if you have SN to be disposed, still can store at home until ctb/police. Problem arises when you need to get rid of it (scared, recovery, etc)...

 

[enjolras]

You know I like it... "tidy / all over the place". I plan to comply with the mustachioed Village People : "got nothing to hide mister Officer. Take it from me". Sob about sausage less mornings. Frictionless resistance, Aikido style !

 

[Quarky00]

Storage -- Why SN does not readily oxidizes

Nitration may occur with abundance of water and oxygen, over time, and with more reagents or heat. Usually it's the other way around: NaNO3 decomposes naturally to NaNO2.

For example , NaNO2


And the notorious "Curing Salt":



Searching for NaNO2 oxidation always yields similar results:



I.e. a reagent is needed.

Nitrous acid is usually generated by acidification of aqueous solutions of sodium nitrite with a mineral acid. The acidification is usually conducted at ice temperatures, and the HNO2 is consumed in situ.[2][3] Free nitrous acid is unstable and decomposes rapidly.

NaNO2 requires oxidative conditions:

The ability of NaNO2 to produce NO·, NO2, and N2O4 under oxidative conditions has considerably assisted in the discovery of its newer applications.

Some more information:

Spoiler: Nitrous acid and nitrite salts

Nitrous acid (HNO2), a weak acid, is very unstable and exists only in aqueous solution. A pale blue solution of HNO2 is obtained when dinitrogen trioxide (N2O3) is added to water, and it is also easy to prepare HNO2 by adding acid to a solution of a nitrite. NO2− + H3O+ → HNO2 + H2O It decomposes slowly at room temperature—and more rapidly at elevated temperatures—to nitric acid and nitric oxide. Nitrous acid is oxidized to nitric acid by active oxidizing agents and acts as an oxidizing agent with strong reducing agents. Sodium nitrite, NaNO2, is an important example of a nitrite—that is, a salt of nitrous acid. It is typically prepared by reducing molten sodium nitrate with elemental lead. NaNO3 + Pb → NaNO2 + PbO This salt is added to meats, such as hot dogs, for two reasons. It prolongs the meat's retention of a red colour, and it inhibits the growth of bacteria that can cause food poisoning. The addition of sodium nitrite to meat is controversial because nitrous acid, which is produced in the human body when stomach acid reacts with the ingested nitrite ion, is known to react with certain organic compounds to form nitrosamines. Some of the compounds in the nitrosamine class are known to cause cancer in laboratory animals. Consequently, the United States Food and Drug Administration limits the amount of sodium nitrite that can be legally added to foods.

In general, the salts of all oxyacids are more stable than the acids themselves; such is the case with nitrites. They are much more stable than nitrous acid. Most nitrites are soluble in water and in concentrated forms, like nitrates, can explode upon heating or detonation.

As we can see NaNO2 will oxidize in a "rich environment" -- soil, sewage, aquarium, meat, etc -- because it reacts with other substances . (A simple spontaneous oxidization with water rarely occurs) .


TL;DR -- It requires much more for a serious reactions , like exposure to air and water over long periods of time , heat , or presence of more chemicals .

 

[Busdriver]

Servings / Vomiting practice	Stan's Practice – 3 Servings If vomit before fainting – drink next serving Don't force drink #2 – body already absorbed SN Following Stan practice, example: Serving Serving What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 20g Drank all & vomited a lot 20g 15g 5g #2 20g Partially drank serving & vomited some 14g 7g 7g #3 20g Never used Total SN 12g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – may take more SN Fainting around 12m indicates fatality – sufficient SN absorption (no need for more)
PPH practice , vomiting	PPH Practice - 1 Big Serving Serving Size What happened Drank Vomited Absorbed #1 25g Vomited 25g 15g 10g Total SN 10g (fatal) If vomit within 10m – still fatal – no need for more SN
Dosage​
PPH / Stan	To absorb more SN despite possible vomit -- two strategies emerged: PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g Stan's multiple serving – if vomit take more, 3 x 20g Notes: How many actually drank several servings? Unconfirmed [1] Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed
Dosage	PPH = 1 x 25g Stan = 3 x 20g
Over 100kg	PPH = 1x 35g Stan = 3x 25g
Under 60kg *	This had been suggested by some , but not confirmed. PPH = 1x 20g Stan = 3x 15g * We have no evidence that special practice is required . PPH addresses old fragile people , many underweight .
Table per weight?	Not required . jgm63 table is mathematical/theoretical and may complicate preparation [1] . We have no info on those dosages , may use at own discretion .
Warnings​
Double dose?	DON'T. Double dose may do the opposite (vomiting all

Always good to read table-overviews 1 time per few days. I am at the moment thinking about the above, in particular the dosage of 3x20g.
Let's say you drank the 1st 20g, vomited only 5 gram. Then drank the full 2nd serving without vomiting. You then have 35g in your body.

How dangerous would that be, do you think? Double dosing (2*20g=40g is not advised). So, what do you think, is the maximum amount of SN to ingest, without having to experience extra trouble/turmoil/pain in your body?

Sorry for asking though question.

 

[Quarky00]

You then have 35g in your body. How dangerous would that be, do you think?

Everything is dangerous ;) 35g would be fatal for sure .

what do you think, is the maximum amount of SN to ingest, without having to experience extra trouble/turmoil/pain in your body?

We don't actually know.
That's kinda the point at that part you quoted:

PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g

Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed

I can also add:

• In fact PPH increase dosage from 5g .
• It is believed by many good people here who researched SN well that bigger dosages will induce more vomiting or stomach pain and discomfort .

Sorry I don't have a clear answer :) I'm curious to know the answer as well . My personal perspective is that for all practical reasons we know 25g is fatal , so why take more .

 

[Busdriver]

It is tough matter for sure.
Indeed, taking more than 25g doesn't seem right.

I am thinking of making a 2nd dose of 10g, and a 3rd dose of 5g. Just thinking out loud: let's say I vomit 10g of 1st (20g) serving, 5 of 2nd (10g) serving, 2 of 3rd (5g) serving --> leaves me still with, lethal, 18g amount in intestines.

I actually think that the 2nd and 3rd serving are there for assurance, because drinking only a 1st serving of 20g and vomit 10g of it will still be lethal.

This post gives assurance

 

[Quarky00]

This post gives assurance

Yep ;) I like your plan , reasonable , but a bit overwork lol (measuring everything etc)

 

[devil]

ugh this is so helpful, thank you so much

 

[aaaannndz]

Firstly, thanks so much for writing this. I can't imagine how much work it took finding all that info.

Secondly, is there anyway to test if the SN has gone bad or not? I was planning on testing its purity when I get it, but that would mean opening it up, and I'm assuming they come in air-tight bags or at the very least in some container that ensures it stays good the longest and I don't trust myself with being able to close it up properly again.