Method SN Attempts Unsuccessful?

[TennTrixie]

Has anyone attempted to CTB with a SN overdose? Whether problems with dosage, vomiting, rescue, whatever...

I'm sure everyone of us feels this way, but I don't want to chance it going wrong and being in worse shape instead. Any advice appreciated.

I just started researching SN.... not sure I'll even be able to get some. But I don't do anything halfway, so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row.

 

[CantDoIt]

Some people here have attempted and failed. Failure reasons have been as follows:

-rescued
-got scared and called for help
-unknown reason (followed protocol but didn't die. Maybe low purity or puking)

 

[TennTrixie]

Some people here have attempted and failed. Failure reasons have been as follows:

-rescued
-got scared and called for help
-unknown reason (followed protocol but didn't die. Maybe low purity or puking)

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I was hoping people who have experienced these things would reply to the thread, and tell their story so that I could learn from it.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I was hoping people who have experienced these things would reply to the thread, and tell their story so that I could learn from it.

Fwiw, vomiting is probably towards the bottom of the list of reasons why SN can fail. The dose we take of 25g is 8-25x the actual lethal dose, and this is done so that your body gets flooded with SN and even if you vomit you likely ingested more than enough; this is doubly true if you're taking Meto in your SN plan, since Meto speeds up gastric emptying thus quickly letting the SN enter your small intestine for absorption. So if you took Meto and vomited your SN, you likely ingested even more than someone who did not have an antiemetic. And the backup glass of SN is advised just to be safe. So in terms of vomiting, it shouldn't necessarily be a worry for you.

The first two reasons for failure that CantDoIt listed are your top concerns. You may feel the urge to call emergency services since SI can kick in while you're waiting to pass out, and SN symptoms can be scary if you're not ready for them. And if you don't live alone, there's always the chance someone will walk in on you, even if they aren't expected to return for a certain amount of time (coming home early, for example). From the SN successes and failures thread, it appears most failures were because someone came in too early, or they called emergency services before they passed out. The PPH also supports this claim, as failures are generally the result of medical intervention, rather than anything to do with the SN. Failures can also arise from not following protocol as well.

Hope this helps. And of course, do wait and see if anyone who has any personal experience with those things replies to this thread. Information is power.

Proof Vomiting is not always a failure thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-on-the-forum-as-a-cause-of-sn-failure.47986/

SN Successes and Failures thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-successful-and-unsuccessful-cases-2023-update.120854/

edit: edited actual lethal dose numbers. Lethal dose for an average person is 22mg per kg (forgot about this, remember reading it somewhere though). So it can be anywhere from 25x the lethal dose if you're very light, to about 8x if you're quite heavy (not morbid obese though).

 

[nasigoreng99]

Once you are able to use search function, look up "SN successful and unsuccessful cases 2023 update" posted by Vizzy.

 

[Asleepatlast]

Fwiw, vomiting is probably towards the bottom of the list of reasons why SN can fail. The dose we take of 25g is 8-25x the actual lethal dose, and this is done so that your body gets flooded with SN and even if you vomit you likely ingested more than enough; this is doubly true if you're taking Meto in your SN plan, since Meto speeds up gastric emptying thus quickly letting the SN enter your small intestine for absorption. So if you took Meto and vomited your SN, you likely ingested even more than someone who did not have an antiemetic. And the backup glass of SN is advised just to be safe. So in terms of vomiting, it shouldn't necessarily be a worry for you.

The first two reasons for failure that CantDoIt listed are your top concerns. You may feel the urge to call emergency services since SI can kick in while you're waiting to pass out, and SN symptoms can be scary if you're not ready for them. And if you don't live alone, there's always the chance someone will walk in on you, even if they aren't expected to return for a certain amount of time (coming home early, for example). From the SN successes and failures thread, it appears most failures were because someone came in too early, or they called emergency services before they passed out. The PPH also supports this claim, as failures are generally the result of medical intervention, rather than anything to do with the SN. Failures can also arise from not following protocol as well.

Hope this helps. And of course, do wait and see if anyone who has any personal experience with those things replies to this thread. Information is power.

Proof Vomiting is not always a failure thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-on-the-forum-as-a-cause-of-sn-failure.47986/

SN Successes and Failures thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-successful-and-unsuccessful-cases-2023-update.120854/

edit: edited actual lethal dose numbers. Lethal dose for an average person is 22mg per kg (forgot about this, remember reading it somewhere though). So it can be anywhere from 25x the lethal dose if you're very light, to about 8x if you're quite heavy (not morbid obese though).

Do you think this high dosage is why so many people vomit even with AE? Is it really necessary?

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

I encountered or cared for SN attempts I think 8 times in my last job. These were all children tragically as it was pediatric critical care. It's hard to get exact info on what happened sometimes, but I usually saw them probably within an hour after ingestion. These being kids, there was probably more impulsiveness, less real planning, less ability to maintain privacy, imperfect execution. Once they're with us in that kind of emergent situation the parents could be there technically, but never were because things are so hectic, graphic, and they're usually being cared for at the hospital with some sort of support worker. What I'm saying is we're flying by the seat of our pants and treating only with the information we have based on what we can see right in front of us, at least at first. The info we get from parents and first responders is usually like "thanks for the info" or "cool story bro, but I can't rely on that". If the kid comes through, they usually give us a good idea of what happened, if they don't I don't really learn anything else after taking them to the morgue. Basically, it boils down to they didn't get a sufficient dose either from backing out, couldn't handle the taste, or vomited and were too weak to take more. A couple didn't show signs of methemoglobinemia, the others got methylene blue and some other stuff like atropine based on what the doc called for in addition to the methylene blue based on different variables. I didn't really see any deficits after the survivors came back, but some brain injuries don't show their full colors until later, like an anoxic brain injury which I do have myself, and it's weird. I think any method is subject to the same risk, but I think the aftermath with SN if you do live as at least physically not bad compared to other popular methods.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Do you think this high dosage is why so many people vomit even with AE? Is it really necessary?

I don't think it's really the dosage, though it definitely plays a factor considering people eat meat with Sodium Nitrite in it; in food, very little SN is used, so it's not seen as a problem by the body. But SN when ingested in beyond-safe quantities is seen as a dangerous toxin by the body and it will try its best to expel it. It's a bit like alcohol, though not really. If you drink a beer, you'll be completely fine; if you drink 12, you're vomiting your guts out and then passing out for a good while.

And as for your second question, yes the high dose is necessary. You're trying to flood your body with as much SN as possible before it gets expelled. This is why we have a second or third glass as a backup, so you can continue to flood your body with more SN in case you expel too much with the first glass. The lethal dose is something like 22-30mg per KG of body weight, so for me at 45kg 25g is around 25.2x the lethal amount. This means I only really have to get like 5g in me to truly assure death, though people have died only taking like 1g accidentally.

 

[Asleepatlast]

I don't think it's really the dosage, though it definitely plays a factor considering people eat meat with Sodium Nitrite in it; in food, very little SN is used, so it's not seen as a problem by the body. But SN when ingested in beyond-safe quantities is seen as a dangerous toxin by the body and it will try its best to expel it. It's a bit like alcohol, though not really. If you drink a beer, you'll be completely fine; if you drink 12, you're vomiting your guts out and then passing out for a good while.

And as for your second question, yes the high dose is necessary. You're trying to flood your body with as much SN as possible before it gets expelled. This is why we have a second or third glass as a backup, so you can continue to flood your body with more SN in case you expel too much with the first glass. The lethal dose is something like 22-30mg per KG of body weight, so for me at 45kg 25g is around 25.2x the lethal amount. This means I only really have to get like 5g in me to truly assure death, though people have died only taking like 1g accidentally.

Thank you for the info. It does make sense.

But I'm also still a bit confused. I understand wanting to assure death but if taking so much is making us vomit so that we have to take more and vomit more is it really necessary? If you are just vomiting it up anyway are you even investing more than if you took less in a still lethal dose?

I have a strong aversion to vomiting and an sounds like it comes with a lot of nasty side effects that could make our last few moments on earth a nightmare. I don't like the thought of that.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Thank you for the info. It does make sense.

But I'm also still a bit confused. I understand wanting to assure death but if taking so much is making us vomit so that we have to take more and vomit more is it really necessary? If you are just vomiting it up anyway are you even investing more than if you took less in a still lethal dose?

I have a strong aversion to vomiting and an sounds like it comes with a lot of nasty side effects that could make our last few moments on earth a nightmare. I don't like the thought of that.

well, considering i'm not an expert, it's important that I simply follow the well-established protocol. if it were well-documented that you could do it reliably with less than 15g, then perhaps i'd do less, but I also really want to make sure it works so i'd probably still do 25g. it's also worth noting that vomiting is usually never the cause of failure; the main causes of failure are being found too early or calling for help.

and if you don't like vomiting, well... this method likely won't be for you as it almost always causes nausea and vomiting. i'm personally fine with every symptom that SN causes, except tachycardia. but i feel it's worth it to fight through it if it means I finally get my escape. there are very few peaceful and painless deaths, so most deaths usually come with discomfort or suffering. the fortunate thing is with SN, it's only around 15-20 minutes of suffering (and not even that great of suffering). so i keep that in mind when thinking about SN and its effects.

 

[Asleepatlast]

well, considering i'm not an expert, it's important that I simply follow the well-established protocol. if it were well-documented that you could do it reliably with less than 15g, then perhaps i'd do less, but I also really want to make sure it works so i'd probably still do 25g. it's also worth noting that vomiting is usually never the cause of failure; the main causes of failure are being found too early or calling for help.

and if you don't like vomiting, well... this method likely won't be for you as it almost always causes nausea and vomiting. i'm personally fine with every symptom that SN causes, except tachycardia. but i feel it's worth it to fight through it if it means I finally get my escape. there are very few peaceful and painless deaths, so most deaths usually come with discomfort or suffering. the fortunate thing is with SN, it's only around 15-20 minutes of suffering (and not even that great of suffering). so i keep that in mind when thinking about SN and its effects.

That's very true. And if I didn't already have these symptoms with my health condition I don't think it would concern me so much.

I do get concerned because of my health these symptoms might be more intense for me than maybe others. Of course, no way to know until I try.

Hopefully the vomiting isn't too bad. I had norovirus recently and that consisted of over eight hours straight of vomiting and wretching. It was painful. My body was making me vomit even when I had nothing to vomit so I would quickly gulp down some water just to have something to throw up. I ended up hospitalized from the whole ordeal.

It's truly frustrating having to fight so hard for peace. I do hope it is quick.

My other major concern with this method is just having all that time for sn to kick in and for me to back out.

Apologies for dropping so much on you. There is no safe space anywhere else for me to confess these thoughts.

Thank you for taking the time to share your insight and knowledge about sn. Truly appreciated.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

That's very true. And if I didn't already have these symptoms with my health condition I don't think it would concern me so much.

I do get concerned because of my health these symptoms might be more intense for me than maybe others. Of course, no way to know until I try.

Yeah there's no way to tell until you're actually doing it. I do hope that it doesn't go awry for you though.

Hopefully the vomiting isn't too bad. I had norovirus recently and that consisted of over eight hours straight of vomiting and wretching. It was painful. My body was making me vomit even when I had nothing to vomit so I would quickly gulp down some water just to have something to throw up. I ended up hospitalized from the whole ordeal.

Fuck, that sounds awful. I don't want to try and equate my experience to yours, but it sounds very similar to when I was given Fentanyl when I was in the hospital a while back. I was vomiting for hours and hours, to the point where most of my vomit was just bile. I don't really mind vomiting, but it was awful and exhausting. So in some way I can empathize with you here. Are you doing okay now? Does norovirus leave any lingering effects like covid can?

And if it's any consolation, I don't think SN will be like that. Usually people seem to just puke once or a few times, then they down their backup glass if they have enough strength and willpower left.

It's truly frustrating having to fight so hard for peace. I do hope it is quick.

My other major concern with this method is just having all that time for sn to kick in and for me to back out.

It really is. I've been at this, actively, for about 2 years now. After failing a shit ton with hanging, I eventually switched to SN. I'm really hoping this'll be my last attempt.

Compared to other methods, it is quite long but not as long as some. From what I've seen, it really should be under 20 minutes and then you're out. There are extreme edge cases where it took 30-40 mins (like StrawberryPanic, which took her like 34 min before unconsciousness if i remember correctly). So it is relatively quick, but it is more than enough time for doubt, panic, regret, and all that to set in. But you never know, some people are at great peace after they've taken SN. Though, there's no way to tell which type of person you are until you make the attempt.

Apologies for dropping so much on you. There is no safe space anywhere else for me to confess these thoughts.

Thank you for taking the time to share your insight and knowledge about sn. Truly appreciated.

Don't apologize! It's what we're here for - to speak freely with others in a supportive and relatively judgement-free space.

And you're welcome! It's no problem.

 

[sevennn]

i worry about vomiting too

 

[rozeske]

I encountered or cared for SN attempts I think 8 times in my last job. These were all children tragically as it was pediatric critical care. It's hard to get exact info on what happened sometimes, but I usually saw them probably within an hour after ingestion. These being kids, there was probably more impulsiveness, less real planning, less ability to maintain privacy, imperfect execution. Once they're with us in that kind of emergent situation the parents could be there technically, but never were because things are so hectic, graphic, and they're usually being cared for at the hospital with some sort of support worker. What I'm saying is we're flying by the seat of our pants and treating only with the information we have based on what we can see right in front of us, at least at first. The info we get from parents and first responders is usually like "thanks for the info" or "cool story bro, but I can't rely on that". If the kid comes through, they usually give us a good idea of what happened, if they don't I don't really learn anything else after taking them to the morgue. Basically, it boils down to they didn't get a sufficient dose either from backing out, couldn't handle the taste, or vomited and were too weak to take more. A couple didn't show signs of methemoglobinemia, the others got methylene blue and some other stuff like atropine based on what the doc called for in addition to the methylene blue based on different variables. I didn't really see any deficits after the survivors came back, but some brain injuries don't show their full colors until later, like an anoxic brain injury which I do have myself, and it's weird. I think any method is subject to the same risk, but I think the aftermath with SN if you do live as at least physically not bad compared to other popular methods.

Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Much appreciated. If I may ask, do you get a lot of these cases or would you say they are rare? Do you usually find them unconscious or responsive? Do you get to treat and save most of them and what would you say plays a major role in successful treatment?

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Much appreciated. If I may ask, do you get a lot of these cases or would you say they are rare? Do you usually find them unconscious or responsive? Do you get to treat and save most of them and what would you say plays a major role in successful treatment?

I'd say they're rare, and they seemed to come in pretty quick succession and then go away. I'm not working at the moment, and probably won't again. They were all unconscious and unresponsive initially. Methylene blue and quick response seemed to be the common denominator. Sometimes the methylene blue takes a little longer to get our hands on. The hospital has it ready in general, but it's something that had to be tubed up.

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

I'd say they're rare, and they seemed to come in pretty quick succession and then go away. I'm not working at the moment, and probably won't again. They were all unconscious and unresponsive initially. Methylene blue and quick response seemed to be the common denominator. Sometimes the methylene blue takes a little longer to get our hands on. The hospital has it ready in general, but it's something that had to be tubed up.

I'll add to this, many times the pharmacy or lab takes longer than we'd like, but certain things when we ask, and hopefully the pharmacy has someone with some experience working, we get it right f******* now.

 

[rozeske]

I'll add to this, many times the pharmacy or lab takes longer than we'd like, but certain things when we ask, and hopefully the pharmacy has someone with some experience working, we get it right f******* now.

Thank you for the clarifications. When you say takes longer, providing the antidote or results of cause of poisoning? Is it normally obvious that it's sn poisoning and you start treatment right away or do you need to wait for test conformation?

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

It's super obvious it's methemoglobinemia. I didn't mean lab for SN specifically, and many tests not so much for toxins but for conditions of the blood we can perform on the floor directly. I'm talking a difference between them taking about a minute to send it up or ten minutes. Methylene blue is one thing where there's never a question asked about why or how much. There are never any calls on our spectralinks it's just confirmed and tubed and you better be at the tube station or have someone at the tube station to get it for you immediately or you've get hell to pay. They see it and they know it couldn't be a mistake and it's defcon-3.

 

[Asleepatlast]

This is super personal. You literally singled me out and came at me in a way I don't even understand why you did except for your own anxiety acting up.

But it isn't your job to police or proselytize me. That's actually in the rules and unless I've broken some rule and admin wants to address it it really isn't your place to single me out and attempt to police me like this.

Also from the rules:

Is X information correct?
Never assume any information whatsoever is correct or accurate, no matter where you read it or who gives it to you. Always, no matter what, make your own critical assessment and investigation. You are responsible for any usage of the data you come across.

Also, the megathread on sn makes clear vomiting is to be expected with sn even with AE. Of course I'm going to ask around when making the most important decision of my life. And please don't assume people aren't doing their research, reading the rules, or otherwise engaging honestly with this forum. That's what the report button is for and you should be taking it up with admin not following me around this forum and harassing me. I may be a new member but I am also attempting to use this space as a safe space and I'm grateful to the many members that have contributed to that, including you when we first chatted. Please, I don't want to be concerned about fake reports either but I don't think this is an appropriate way of handling your anxiety or making new members feel welcome.

 

[Asleepatlast]

It's super obvious it's methemoglobinemia. I didn't mean lab for SN specifically, and many tests not so much for toxins but for conditions of the blood we can perform on the floor directly. I'm talking a difference between them taking about a minute to send it up or ten minutes. Methylene blue is one thing where there's never a question asked about why or how much. There are never any calls on our spectralinks it's just confirmed and tubed and you better be at the tube station or have someone at the tube station to get it for you immediately or you've get hell to pay. They see it and they know it couldn't be a mistake and it's defcon-3.

What if you have a DNR on file?

 

[tiredofliving14]

I survived SN last year and am happy to answer any questions

 

[sevennn]

I survived SN last year and am happy to answer any questions

survived because you called for help? or?

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

What if you have a DNR on file?

Until we have it we do anything to keep the person alive. These were kids, highly unlikely to have DNRs. The types of kids who have DNRs are not the types of kids taking SN. In an adult scenario, and I haven't had adults who took SN, but by the time we even ascertain who a person actually is and if they have a DNR it's likely a lot has already been done to them.

 

[tiredofliving14]

survived because you called for help? or?

No, I was found

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

Until we have it we do anything to keep the person alive. These were kids, highly unlikely to have DNRs. The types of kids who have DNRs are not the types of kids taking SN. In an adult scenario, and I haven't had adults who took SN, but by the time we even ascertain who a person actually is and if they have a DNR it's likely a lot has already been done to them.

DNR wouldn't help with methylene blue and many other things. It's do not resuscitate. There are DNIs and all sorts of things. What matters is the advance directive it's a document. You can list exactly what you do and don't want. But in an emergency, we're not waiting for a document. A bracelet isn't going to do anything.

 

[Asleepatlast]

Until we have it we do anything to keep the person alive. These were kids, highly unlikely to have DNRs. The types of kids who have DNRs are not the types of kids taking SN. In an adult scenario, and I haven't had adults who took SN, but by the time we even ascertain who a person actually is and if they have a DNR it's likely a lot has already been done to them.

That is what I figured.

 

[suffering_mo_7]

I survived SN last year and am happy to answer any questions

Thanks for being willing. Can you tell us what your experience was like?

 

[Asleepatlast]

DNR wouldn't help with methylene blue and many other things. It's do not resuscitate. There are DNIs and all sorts of things. What matters is the advance directive it's a document. You can list exactly what you do and don't want. But in an emergency, we're not waiting for a document. A bracelet isn't going to do anything.

Yes, you are correct. Thank you. And even with advance directives there are no guarantees. I plan to post it in my home so if ems shows up. I plan on this anyway because I do not want life saving measures of any kind.

Frankly, it ticks me off they can just start doing stuff to you without your consent. I don't blame the healthcare workers. Y'all are just doing your jobs.

But not everyone wants to come back and it's crazy the lengths we have to go to to attempt to stop this interference.

I just read about an old man and when EMS arrived he told them do not resuscitate me if I go. I'm ready to go. The ems was going to anyway. They wouldn't even go off his word without formal documentation. Luckily when he passed his family said no, do not touch him. This is what he wanted.

We need a much better system for these directives so people are not getting procedures they don't want. I have debilitating chronic illnesses. I do not want to be brought back. But I will have to be because like you said they just start working on people regardless of orders. It's a scary thought to me and life-saving measures come with a lot of pain and harm also.

 

[schrei_nach_liebe]

Yes, you are correct. Thank you. And even with advance directives there are no guarantees. I plan to post it in my home so if ems shows up. I plan on this anyway because I do not want life saving measures of any kind.

Frankly, it ticks me off they can just start doing stuff to you without your consent. I don't blame the healthcare workers. Y'all are just doing your jobs.

But not everyone wants to come back and it's crazy the lengths we have to go to to attempt to stop this interference.

I just read about an old man and when EMS arrived he told them do not resuscitate me if I go. I'm ready to go. The ems was going to anyway. They wouldn't even go off his word without formal documentation. Luckily when he passed his family said no, do not touch him. This is what he wanted.

We need a much better system for these directives so people are not getting procedures they don't want. I have debilitating chronic illnesses. I do not want to be brought back. But I will have to be because like you said they just start working on people regardless of orders. It's a scary thought to me and life-saving measures come with a lot of pain and harm also.

It's absolutely impossible to do anything differently. I obviously don't want any life saving or life prolonging measures myself. But automatically if you're in an emergency situation and someone happened to be conscious, we don't know if they're meaningfully conscious, we don't know if they're insane, we don't know if they're going to change their mind, and there are layers and layers and layers of laws and traditions, and codes of ethics within licensing boards that it's just no use spending any time thinking about it. The only solution is to prevent anyone getting near you. It's not a conspiracy or anything that we do that.

 

[Asleepatlast]

It's absolutely impossible to do anything differently. I obviously don't want any life saving or life prolonging measures myself. But automatically if you're in an emergency situation and someone happened to be conscious, we don't know if they're meaningfully conscious, we don't know if they're insane, we don't know if they're going to change their mind, and there are layers and layers and layers of laws and traditions, and codes of ethics within licensing boards that it's just no use spending any time thinking about it. The only solution is to prevent anyone getting near you. It's not a conspiracy or anything that we do that.

I don't know what you mean by it's not a conspiracy or anything that you do that? Do you mean lifesaving procedures? Of course not. I understand all the particularities and challenges surrounding this. That's why I said I don't blame the healthcare workers and certainly people that do want to be saved would be harmed by too much red tape in the other direction.

I just have the opportunity to see it from the other side now is all and we do need to revamp the system.

I have concern for the twenty something that wants to live being medically neglected as well as the eighty year old on their way out getting ribs cracked, double pneumonia, etc. that doesn't want to be saved.

It's a system we could do better at is all I am saying.