Should proffesionals be allowed to admit people to the hospital phsyc ward involuntarily

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

I asked if you had. I may be going blind but I am not quite there yet. None of what I wrote is meant to be personal. I do not know you, nor do I want to, but I do the medical community, and I do know the pharmaceutical industry and I am well aware that you are only human. And what difference does make if I have family in the medical community? Am I supposed to love all medical professionals simply because they are members of my family? 'claim' anyone who thinks that another would lie about something so simple must, in my view, be very capable of deceit. Another aspect of medicine that makes me feel sick to my stomach.

I don't know ,Poof. all I know is you have 6 cousins who are all physicians and a 7th cousin who worked as a assistant to a physician and 35 bodies were found in his backyard and he was subsequently convicted of murder...............um ok, mate. You do you.

 

[1964dodge]

What did you expect then? Doctors can't just let a person die even if they are in a serious amount of suffering or they will lose their job. They can only follow the medical practices established by the government. Not all doctors are evil and side with big pharma. There are doctors and therapists that truly would care for you and do everything to help you or understand your perspective without calling the psych ward. Please stop trying to start childish fights.

my doctor is that way he used to give samples to patients for the whole month about ten years ago he refused to even see pharma reps at all

 

[Deleted member 1768]

that is not true and you know it I think you are drunk or high either way i'm ignoring you I suggest other people do the same and we can discuss this properly

What did you expect then? Doctors can't just let a person die even if they are in a serious amount of suffering or they will lose their job. They can only follow the medical practices established by the government. Not all doctors are evil and side with big pharma. There are doctors and therapists that truly would care for you and do everything to help you or understand your perspective without calling the psych ward. Please stop trying to start childish fights.

Exactly my point. Given the present laws no one has any protection against evil in medicine. No one. In another province the laws are so foul that good, honest, caring doctors can do nothing about private physicians who do not care. If it is a doctor in a hospital they have a right to speak out. If it is someone without privileges the hospital can be sued. It is ridiculous. Until there is more protection for the patient and good medical staff then nothing will change.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

Exactly my point. Given the present laws no one has any protection against evil in medicine. No one. In another province the laws are so foul that good, honest, caring doctors can do nothing about private physicians who do not care. If it is a doctor in a hospital they have a right to speak out. If it is someone without privileges the hospital can be sued. It is ridiculous. Until there is more protection for the patient nothing will change.

Tell us more about the mass murder, I am sure it's in the news.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

I don't know ,Poof. all I know is you have 6 cousins who are all physicians and a 7th cousin who worked as a assistant to a physician and 35 bodies were found in his backyard and he was subsequently convicted of murder...............um ok, mate. You do you.

Sorry apparently I wrote that incorrectly/you have not read it right. I have 6 cousins who are doctors. One of whom was mentored by another doctor and the 35 bodies were found in the mentors back yard. It is a famous case. Then there is the nurse who murdered all those people in the states. How did they get away with that? You tell me that I am lying? Why?

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Tell us more about the mass murder, I am sure it's in the news.

My apologies...

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

Sorry apparently I wrote that incorrectly/you have not read it right. I have 6 cousins who are doctors. One of whom was mentored by another doctor and the 35 bodies were found in the mentors back yard. It is a famous case. Then there is the nurse who murdered all those people in the states. How did they get away with that? You tell me that I am lying? Why?

No, I am not making any judgment, would like to see the news article first. without sight of the same, how could answer your questions?

 

[1964dodge]

since this is my thread I owe you an apology ifhedieshedies sometimes people like poof show up please ignore him all he wants to do is argue

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

since this is my thread I owe you an apology ifhedieshedies sometimes people like poof show up please ignore him all he wants to do is argue

No apologies needed, my friend. He seems extremely unstable. Poor sod.

 

[1964dodge]

No apologies needed, my friend. He seems extremely unstable. Poor sod.

thanks he takes away from the true purpose of the thread what do people think and mostly do they lose trust now it's gone

 

[midastic]

thanks he takes away from the true purpose of the thread what do people think and mostly do they lose trust now it's gone

Well to actually bring to the point of this thread. No, I would immediately lose contact with them even if it was a close relative. The point of me telling you that I'm suicidal means that I trust you not to get me shipped and delivered to a psych ward. I don't need some fucker to ensure that I continue to suffer. Even if I decide to continue life, I would still refuse to talk to anyone that rats me out.

 

[Sayo]

Nope. And I do believe it is very traumatic to the bond between professional and patient, maybe even on both sides. Not unrecoverable but tough.

The places ought to be improved substantially and made useful enough that mentally ill people voluntarily seek treatment there out of anything other than suicidal hopelessness, though. You can go to the normal hospital for reasons other than being at death's door (or needing chronic care), after all. Also, 'voluntary admission' to psych wards is an illusion to anyone aware of it because if you cease to cooperate they detain you, so I do mean really voluntarily.

I believe it may be possible for people entering therapy to establish a bond of trust that includes guidance in seeking admission, though. If I want my therapist to be able to exercise her judgment in such a manner that she can refer me for immediate and temporary admission despite my disagreement, I should also be able to negotiate that—although such arrangements currently would exist in a coercive power dynamic, I am perfectly aware mentally ill people can be irrational and impulsive too. As someone with an impulse control disorder, I function well when I'm able to have an open dialogue about my options after being given the space to deescalate.

As for people deemed to be a danger to society, I don't profess to be an expert. I don't know if incarceration could be made justifiable in the name of preventing crimes (it's justifiable in the case of those who have, the facilities need to be better though—the prison system as a whole is untenable). Currently, I believe it is inhumane.

I'm open to having my mind changed on stuff.

 

[1964dodge]

thank you people for getting back on topic

 

[Deleted member 1768]

No, I am not making any judgment, would like to see the news article first. without sight of the same, how could answer your questions?

If you want to see a news article I suggest google, but I am certainly not going to tell you where it happened, or who my cousin is...wow. You will have to excuse me, but if you have doubts about me well I have a lot more doubt about you. So I suggest again google it. I have no clue what else you are asking. It is a puzzle to me.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

If you want to see a news article I suggest google, but I am certainly not going to tell you where it happened, or who my cousin is...wow. You will have to excuse me, but if you have doubts about me well I have a lot more doubt about you. So I suggest again google it. I have no clue what else you are asking. It is a puzzle to me.

Can't locate the article Google or otherwise. No need to tell me the name of your cousin, just name of the physician who allegedly committed the crimes. it has nothing to with your cousin unless he was an accomplice. What doubts do you have about me, feel free to ask?

 

[Deleted member 1768]

you implied it and you said we are dangerous here, do you know where you are other threads tell you how to do it where to get supplies others for pacts and you call a thread with a general question dangerous what does everyone else think of poofs statement

I rest my case.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

That's not totally true. You are making a huge sweeping statement against the whole medical community.[/Q

It is a decision any doctor can make. Or, as things stand now every student. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Many of you should be in prison. Please remember that the 'Angel of Death' in nazi germany was a surgeon, as was the man in Manitoba who treated CHILDREN after sneaking to Canada from a country where torture of prisoners was rampant. So don't tell me that surgeons are any different. You would protect your team and your name even if you knew that serious damage had been done to a patient. The number of people who would agree with me are multitudinous and they would be right.

Just to add to this: I know that like us you can do nothing about the laws, but why as a group have you not tried.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Yeah that is scathing...sorry...but you bet I am angry, you bet I am.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

Finding my cousin leads you to me.

For such a momentous case, it has to be out there in the news and but it seems no-one has heard of it nor does it show up in any google search.

See for yourself:

http://bfy.tw/K2x9

So I would have to call BS on this. Feel free to live in your fantasy. And as an adjunct, you have 6 cousins alone who are physicians, I wonder how many cousins you have altogether ? And why would your cousin's name be exposed, unless he was party to the crime?

 

[Deleted member 1768]

By the way I cannot see who wrote this re. me and being high, but the only drugs I take are anti-epileptics, blood-pressure meds, and drops for my eyes. I smoke hash and grass on very limited occasions because my opthomologist, who is both honest and competent has told me too. I do not like drugs or booze. You can choose to believe what I say about myself or not. That decision is yours, but I lie no more than I take drugs or drink. To claim that another is lying, especially in a place like this is, in my opinion, beneath contempt. I ask only that you do not bring this site down.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

For such a momentous case, it has to be out there in the news and but it seems no-one has heard of it nor does it show up in any google search.

See for yoursel
http://bfy.tw/K2x9

So I would have to call BS on this. Feel free to live in your fantasy. And as an adjunct, you have 6 cousins alone who are physicians, I wonder how many cousins you have altogether ? And why would your cousin's name be exposed, unless he was party to the crime?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman
I have come to the conclusion that being found out means little to me...enjoy....

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Can't locate the article Google or otherwise. No need to tell me the name of your cousin, just name of the physician who allegedly committed the crimes. it has nothing to with your cousin unless he was an accomplice. What doubts do you have about me, feel free to ask?

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

Please remember that the 'Angel of Death' in nazi germany was a surgeon, as was the man in Manitoba who treated CHILDREN after sneaking to Canada from a country where torture of prisoners was rampant. So don't tell me that surgeons are any different.

So one terrible surgeon did some horrible shxt over 70 years ago in Nazi Germany and another "man" in manitoba treated their patients badly make every surgeon a bad person? Th is is ur logic??!!OK..

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

This is personal....You are a monster.

Pls explain, if you will. You look silly throwing around silly, groundless accusations without a shred of truth. you don't even know which med school i went to or where i used to practice.

 

[hunter_lewis]

I believe what goes on in closed psych wards is very cruel and dehumanizing. People being strapped down and forced to lie in their own shit, given stong neuroleptics like Haldol (I read a story of a lady who had thrombosis because of it and the doctors said basically it's not our problem because we were trying to save your life) and other terrible stories. And I live in the West, in a very orderly and rich country.
I have been to loads of doctors (never psychiatrists though) and a lot of them do not show compassion but to them I am just the next biomechanical robot and if I feel pain-who cares? Not one doctor has offered me anything for pain relief for my condition except ibuprofen which I can by otc. Not one! Now I am facing surgery and hope the doctor realizes that he or she is literally holding my life in their hands. If they kill me I am grateful. I will despise them if they leave me with lasting damage. Of course, I understand that that is not their intent and they are only trying to help, but in general my experience with doctors has not been good.

 

[Smilla]

Pls explain, if you will. You look silly throwing around silly, groundless accusations without a shred of truth. you don't even know which med school i went to or where i used to practice.

I hesitate to get involved here but—may I ask what your med school has to do with the discussion? Or where you used to practice? A certain family member of mine is a world famous physician who graduated from a 1st tier med school, residency, and is now a Professor. I understand your frustration with the OP and his defensiveness and accusativeness of the entire profession but I am wondering if he is speaking about a lack of empathy encountered amongst the doctors he has seen, and isn't referring to technical abilities, necessarily?

The cold hard truth of med school graduates, PhDs in the hard sciences etc is that it takes a tremendous amount of hard work and dedication...years as you know. It can harden a person, not to mention all of the suffering doctors witness and attend to day in and day out.

Both of you have the right to your experiences which are intimately your own. Broader context needed in this discussion I think.

The OP is obviously distraught, perhaps he can be caught a break.

I'm lost in this entire discussion.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman
I have come to the conclusion that being found out means little to me...enjoy....

Oh dear, this guy has been dead for around 15 years. how can anyone trace it back to you or your cousin? Further, apparently no body was found in his backyard and he was convicted for 15 murders( not 35 claimed by you). anyway read the article below and you would note the discrepancies of what you wrote and what this guy did. Further and more importantly, how can the action of one psychopathic GP lead you to imply that all physicians are evil? It's like saying all students are evil because of school shootings. I am afraid you logic is inherently flawed.

 

[Smilla]

Oh dear, this guy has been dead for around 15 years. how can anyone trace it back to you or your cousin? Further, apparently no body was found in his backyard and he was convicted for 15 murders( not 35 claimed by you). anyway read the article below and you would note the discrepancies of what you wrote and what this guy did. Further and more importantly, how can the action of one psychopathic GP lead you to imply that all physicians are evil? It's like saying all students are evil because of school shootings. I am afraid you logic is inherently flawed.

Let it go.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

I hesitate to get involved here but—may I ask what your med school has to do with the discussion? Or where you used to practice? A certain family member of mine is a world famous physician who graduated from a 1st tier med school, residency, and is now a Professor. I understand your frustration with the OP and his defensiveness and accuasativenss of the entire profession but I am wondering if he is speaking about a lack of empathy encountered amongst the doctors he has seen, and isn't referring to technical abilities, necessarily?

The cold hard truth of med school graduates, PhDs in the hard sciences etc is that it takes a tremendous amount of hard work and dedication...years as you know. It can harden a person, not to mention all of the suffering doctors witness and attend to day in and day out.

Both of you have the right to your experiences which are intimately your own. Broader context needed in this discussion I think.

The OP is obviously distraught, perhaps he can be caught a break.

I'm lost in this entire discussion.

The questions asked are to illustrate that @poof knows nothing about me and my practice. The questions might as well have been" do you know my name? or do you know how many open heart surgeries i have attended. All I am trying to say is labelling everyone in the medical field as being evil is frivolous, groundless and downright immature.

 

[Smilla]

Oh dear, this guy has been dead for around 15 years. how can anyone trace it back to you or your cousin? Further, apparently no body was found in his backyard and he was convicted for 15 murders( not 35 claimed by you). anyway read the article below and you would note the discrepancies of what you wrote and what this guy did. Further and more importantly, how can the action of one psychopathic GP lead you to imply that all physicians are evil? It's like saying all students are evil because of school shootings. I am afraid you logic is inherently flawed.

I was abused in the hands of a sadistic shrink.

One bad experience can cause one to loose trust, it's basic psychology—irrational perhaps but understandable.

Please, show some empathy towards OP. As a prior or current "surgeon" who took the Hippocratic oath FOR LIFE you are obliged to do no harm.

OP, POOF—hang in there. Not all doctors are evil. Also, note the ignore button.