Should I push through the guilt

[Rainork]

Hi. This is my first post here so hopefully it's okay.
Long story short, recently shits gotten bad and I'm so done living.
I'm in the same predicament I always get stuck in that has prevented me from stb many times. Guilt.
I'm severely depressed (go figure I suppose), I have ADHD(inattentive) and potentially BPD (quiet type I think, this was suggested by a professional but I haven't gotten a diagnosis), I've been suicidal since around 14 (I'm in my late 20s) and have spent so much time arguing with myself that it's selfish for me to stb just to stop my pain when it'll cause pain for those that care about me.
Life's a bitch and I haven't wanted to be here for as long as I can remember, but I've always stayed- justifying that my continued pain is protecting anyone that cares.
Recently though things have shifted, I've changed and become someone I often hate. I treat people around me in unfair ways, cause pain to those I should show love to and am just a general burden to those around me.
I've always known I'll be at peace once I stb and now I'm started to think those in my life will only be able to find their peace once I'm gone.
So, are these thoughts my suicidal side trying to convince me to go or is the other voice saying I'm not a burden lying to try and get me to stay?
I really don't know what to do; stay in pain and cause others pain each day (but without causing the burden of my death) or find peace and leave others to find theirs without me in the way (with the burden of my death).

I'm sorry as I'm sure this kind of thing has been discussed before but I wanted to try and explain this internal battle and see what other things peoples thoughts are on it all?
I think I've wanted to end it for so long I'm almost pissed at that guilt now.
Just get out of my way, you know.

 

[FacePALM]

I can relate but haven't quite figured out how to get around the guilt myself. I don't know what your thoughts mean, or what part of which thought is real. That's the inner battle I am also fighting. I think both sides exist simultaneously, that is the hard part, which do you listen to? I honestly don't know.

I will say this though, you should want to live for yourself for the most part, and a little for others of course, but mostly you. That's what I've learned I guess.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

You find yourself in the classic dilemma that many people here find themselves in. I personally don't feel a drop of guilt, but that's a function of my personal circumstances.

What led you to start to be awful to the people in your life? What kinds of things do you do? It sounds like part of you really regrets it which makes it sound like there's an almost involuntary part to it?

How much do those people know about how you feel? People generally would rather their loved ones stay alive even if that causes them some anguish.

 

[OceanBlue]

You should do what's best for you - people who really love you wouldn't want you to suffer. If you have no children, then you don't owe anything to anybody. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Holu]

Hi. This is my first post here so hopefully it's okay.
Long story short, recently shits gotten bad and I'm so done living.
I'm in the same predicament I always get stuck in that has prevented me from stb many times. Guilt.
I'm severely depressed (go figure I suppose), I have ADHD(inattentive) and potentially BPD (quiet type I think, this was suggested by a professional but I haven't gotten a diagnosis), I've been suicidal since around 14 (I'm in my late 20s) and have spent so much time arguing with myself that it's selfish for me to stb just to stop my pain when it'll cause pain for those that care about me.
Life's a bitch and I haven't wanted to be here for as long as I can remember, but I've always stayed- justifying that my continued pain is protecting anyone that cares.
Recently though things have shifted, I've changed and become someone I often hate. I treat people around me in unfair ways, cause pain to those I should show love to and am just a general burden to those around me.
I've always known I'll be at peace once I stb and now I'm started to think those in my life will only be able to find their peace once I'm gone.
So, are these thoughts my suicidal side trying to convince me to go or is the other voice saying I'm not a burden lying to try and get me to stay?
I really don't know what to do; stay in pain and cause others pain each day (but without causing the burden of my death) or find peace and leave others to find theirs without me in the way (with the burden of my death).

I'm sorry as I'm sure this kind of thing has been discussed before but I wanted to try and explain this internal battle and see what other things peoples thoughts are on it all?
I think I've wanted to end it for so long I'm almost pissed at that guilt now.
Just get out of my way, you know.

First and foremost, as a psych major, I just want to say I blame the mental health professionals for letting you sink this low. It requires a decent amount of legwork to diagnoses someone with MDD/PDD and ADHD, despite the two illness being comorbid, as the general symptoms overlap and can be incredibly confusing to differentiate.

Second, NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER apologize for feeling like your post is mundane or unnecessary. You are the bearer of your own pain. We cannot, regardless of how similar an experience, truly understand what you're going through. Everyone is unique in their battles, and every story helps strengthen our own self understandings.

Onto the meat and bones of your post, as someone currently living for another person(my mom), this shit is hard to stomach at times. While it might seem like a moral obligation to martyr and suffer thru the pain so a loved one doesn't have to suffer a world without you, eventually everyone breaks. The fact that you're alive atm means to me that you still have fight in you, even if you feel depleted. My advice is to simply continue on. Take a deep breath and go one day at a time. Inevitably should the pain overwhelm you, then you will find your own escape.

There is no cure to the guilt of feeling like you betrayed your loved ones. Whilst they might never understand what you're going through or truly get why you did it they will forgive you. It's very noble to not want to hurt them, so I commend you and your impeccable strength for making it this far.

As with everyone on this forum, please feel free to message me if you're in crisis or want to talk. Even if I'm unavailable reach out here. Lots of friendly spirits and souls lurking. Here, amongst the lonely and broken, you are not alone.

 

[OceanBlue]

The fact that you're alive atm means to me that you still have fight in you, even if you feel depleted. My advice is to simply continue on. Take a deep breath and go one day at a time. Inevitably should the pain overwhelm you, then you will find your own escape.

If you advise to "continue on", you need to explain the full picture: that it means taking a huge risk as things can always get much worse. And don't forget to mention it's not a disorder to have awareness and be horrified with existence.

These "professionals" in a pronatalist society can't tell you the truth and if they were ethical individuals - they'd refuse to profit from misleading people. That's why, if you don't have a specific task you want to work on, it's best to stay clear of them.

 

[FuneralCry]

After all only you can decide what you should do as it's your existence, it's a completely personal decision whether to delay the inevitable or not, others cannot really say as they aren't experiencing life the same way as you.

 

[Holu]

If you advise to "continue on", you need to explain the full picture: that it means taking a huge risk as things can always get much worse. And don't forget to mention it's not a disorder to have awareness and be horrified with existence.

These "professionals" in a pronatalist society can't tell you the truth and if they were ethical individuals - they'd refuse to profit from misleading people. That's why, if you don't have a specific task you want to work on, it's best to stay clear of them.

Hi! I worded my response poorly. The message I intended to convey was simply that if the OP feels they have fight left they should fight. Whilst I agree this will perpetuate the longevity of their suffering I am and will stand by the notion that ultimately we know when we are out, and when it's time to move onto peace. Regardless, I should have done better to make it clear that this is MY opinion and OP should NOT make their decision based off of it. They are the keeper of their own fate, and it was wrong of me to not make it clear that I'm just offering my perspective.

Touching up on the comment about mental health professionals, as someone who has spent half their life(6-16) with multiple different therapists and multiple different locations I can see why you and so many others are distrusting of them. My experience within therapy has shown how disconnected many mental health professionals are, as they seem incapable of actually empathizing with truly negative mindsets. Additionally, the fact that therapists can and will 5150 you makes it so much more difficult to actually share the experiences you're going through. Me personally, during my mid teenage years, I just lied about how I was before eventually stopping all together. Still, I find it someone hurtful for you to say therapists aren't ethical. Contrary to popular belief, they are attempting to help you, even if it's in a pronatalist way. Many therapists, even ones who entered the field without already existing issues or illnesses, end up needing to see their own therapist due to the sympathy contagion inherited from hearing the despair of others. They are still human, and sympathize with their patients pain and grieve their patients deaths.

Back to the actually important topic I can only wish OP the best. Regardless of my beliefs I will support them in whatever decision they make. The goal here is to minimize suffering, and so if moving on from this life is the best way they should feel free to explore it.

To the OP I'm really sorry. Not only for the situation you have been placed in, and the suffering you are experiencing but also for any harm my message might have done to you. You know yourself best. I wish and pray for only peace in your endeavors. You did amazing making it this far. All love to you soldier.

 

[NambaSutra]

I totally agree with how broken healthcare is in capitalism. Any doctor or therapist will take my money but there is no accountability or refunds for actually helping. I've pretty much given up on therapy, thinking of the tens of thousands of dollars that have been wasted through the years while I keep getting more and more miserable as I age.

 

[Rainork]

I can relate but haven't quite figured out how to get around the guilt myself. I don't know what your thoughts mean, or what part of which thought is real. That's the inner battle I am also fighting. I think both sides exist simultaneously, that is the hard part, which do you listen to? I honestly don't know.

I will say this though, you should want to live for yourself for the most part, and a little for others of course, but mostly you. That's what I've learned I guess.

It's like a constant switch and honestly it's driving me crazy! I'm glad I'm not the only one with it.
Living for myself is where I trip though, because by that logic I don't want to live anymore. It's been engraved into me that staying alive is 'the right thing to do' and the only reason I have to stay alive is for other people. If I was in the world alone I'd have ended it years ago but as that's not the case, here I am, still scraping through every day for the people around me that care but don't know what to do to help so just leave me to it.

First and foremost, as a psych major, I just want to say I blame the mental health professionals for letting you sink this low. It requires a decent amount of legwork to diagnoses someone with MDD/PDD and ADHD, despite the two illness being comorbid, as the general symptoms overlap and can be incredibly confusing to differentiate.

Second, NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER apologize for feeling like your post is mundane or unnecessary. You are the bearer of your own pain. We cannot, regardless of how similar an experience, truly understand what you're going through. Everyone is unique in their battles, and every story helps strengthen our own self understandings.

Onto the meat and bones of your post, as someone currently living for another person(my mom), this shit is hard to stomach at times. While it might seem like a moral obligation to martyr and suffer thru the pain so a loved one doesn't have to suffer a world without you, eventually everyone breaks. The fact that you're alive atm means to me that you still have fight in you, even if you feel depleted. My advice is to simply continue on. Take a deep breath and go one day at a time. Inevitably should the pain overwhelm you, then you will find your own escape.

There is no cure to the guilt of feeling like you betrayed your loved ones. Whilst they might never understand what you're going through or truly get why you did it they will forgive you. It's very noble to not want to hurt them, so I commend you and your impeccable strength for making it this far.

As with everyone on this forum, please feel free to message me if you're in crisis or want to talk. Even if I'm unavailable reach out here. Lots of friendly spirits and souls lurking. Here, amongst the lonely and broken, you are not alone.

Honestly I believe the professionals I've worked with have tried their best, although I am currently in this state because my doctors removed me from their books without notice and are now refusing to give me my medication, so that's fun.
But the professional that suggested bpd (he also mentioned bipolar but I don't think I have that) is an ADHD specialist and suggested that I find another professional for a separate diagnosis.
Honestly continuing for the sake of other people is agonising, but it's gotten me this far. I think you're right that there is still a part of me that's fighting, I'm just lost as to whether that part is right or wrong and what to do.

You should do what's best for you - people who really love you wouldn't want you to suffer. If you have no children, then you don't owe anything to anybody. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Yeah I've told myself that and have brought it up with them in the past, their response has usually been along the lines of 'I don't want you to suffer, but I think we need to find a way to stop your suffering without ending your life'
What they don't seem to realise though is that nothing works. If I'm alive, I'm suffering..
I don't have any children, honestly for that exact reason. I can't stand the thought of bringing life into this shitty world and then leaving them.

You find yourself in the classic dilemma that many people here find themselves in. I personally don't feel a drop of guilt, but that's a function of my personal circumstances.

What led you to start to be awful to the people in your life? What kinds of things do you do? It sounds like part of you really regrets it which makes it sound like there's an almost involuntary part to it?

How much do those people know about how you feel? People generally would rather their loved ones stay alive even if that causes them some anguish.

That's a tough one, honestly I think a lot of it started around a year ago with a failed attempt- I started to resent those close to me who wouldn't let me leave for wanting me to stay in this living hell.
It's nothing big that I do, I just act in an unkind manner- snapping at them, saying mean things etc. A lot of it started as a way to try and push those close to me away, I figured if everyone hated me I could end it without hurting anyone. Instead said people have stuck around and me being alive has ended up hurting people.
A few people know that my feelings were this strong about a year ago, but when I saw the effect it had on them I stopped sharing and pretended everything was okay to protect them- during that time even my therapist stopped sessions, she said because she felt she couldn't help me any further, I still believe it's because she didn't know how to stop me ending it and didn't know how to deal with that. Honestly when I tried being open and honest with people, it just gave me more reasons to hide my feelings and pretend to be okay.

 

[Holu]

Honestly continuing for the sake of other people is agonising, but it's gotten me this far. I think you're right that there is still a part of me that's fighting, I'm just lost as to whether that part is right or wrong and what to do.

Life, existence, whatever the fuck this is, is nothing but suffering and misery. Even worse is the love that ties us to this cursed plane. It's one thing to love someone so much that you would lay your life down for them, but to stay alive for them? That's something entirely different. Still, it's the reason I'm here, the reason I fight. I cannot shake the unreasonable fear of leaving my mother her to suffer without me. So I'll stay, silently screaming at myself, until inevitably I cannot scream no more.

 

[Rainork]

Life, existence, whatever the fuck this is, is nothing but suffering and misery. Even worse is the love that ties us to this cursed plane. It's one thing to love someone so much that you would lay your life down for them, but to stay alive for them? That's something entirely different. Still, it's the reason I'm here, the reason I fight. I cannot shake the unreasonable fear of leaving my mother her to suffer without me. So I'll stay, silently screaming at myself, until inevitably I cannot scream no more.

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for people in this much pain, we would rather give our life for someone than stay alive for them. If I had to die for someone, I'd do that in a heartbeat as it would end my pain without me being the one that caused others pain.
But what do you do if you hit the point where you can't scream anymore? Because that's where I'm at. My vocal cords have burst, my body is limp but my heart is still beating and people still care.
It feels like an impossible situation, an agonising hell with no escape and it sucks. I don't even know.

 

[Holu]

Yeah, I don't think people understand that for people in this much pain, we would rather give our life for someone than stay alive for them. If I had to die for someone, I'd do that in a heartbeat as it would end my pain without me being the one that caused others pain.
But what do you do if you hit the point where you can't scream anymore? Because that's where I'm at. My vocal cords have burst, my body is limp but my heart is still beating and people still care.
It feels like an impossible situation, an agonising hell with no escape and it sucks. I don't even know.

My advice should be mine alone, and I don't really want to coerce or force you into suffering longer than necessary.

If you have fight left, fight. Patience on hospice garner one last glimpse of energy, referred to as terminal lucidity. Whilst it's obviously different, I personally believe that we(or at least I) will give life once last true chance towards recovery. And if that fails I'll know I'm truly out.

Still, perspectives and paths are different for everyone. Do not read my message as a guide, simply the route of another.

Regardless, if you ever need to talk both I and this entire community are here.

If you have fight left, fight. Patience on hospice garner one last glimpse of energy, referred to as terminal lucidity. Whilst it's obviously different, I personally believe that we(or at least I) will give life once last true chance towards recovery. And if that fails I'll know I'm truly out.

To clarify this, in our final moments I believe we will have clarity. As strong as our desire to die is I fully believe that a small part of all of us wants to live(whether this be SI or our true selves). We simply want the pain to cease. In this we will come to a conclusion for either recovery or not. Then you will know.

 

[Disaster]

It's your decision to make. I don't think you owe anyone staying around, but I also don't believe it's the others job to tell you to stay around or to live with the burden of advising other person to ctb. The real issue in my opinion is why you'd like others to debate or make this decision for you. The whole point of this site is that it is pro-choice, and it means your own choice too, I have no clue why you want others to make that decision for you.

 

[Rainork]

My advice should be mine alone, and I don't really want to coerce or force you into suffering longer than necessary.

If you have fight left, fight. Patience on hospice garner one last glimpse of energy, referred to as terminal lucidity. Whilst it's obviously different, I personally believe that we(or at least I) will give life once last true chance towards recovery. And if that fails I'll know I'm truly out.

Still, perspectives and paths are different for everyone. Do not read my message as a guide, simply the route of another.

Regardless, if you ever need to talk both I and this entire community are here.

To clarify this, in our final moments I believe we will have clarity. As strong as our desire to die is I fully believe that a small part of all of us wants to live(whether this be SI or our true selves). We simply want the pain to cease. In this we will come to a conclusion for either recovery or not. Then you will know.

I have fight left, but I think I'll always have fight left even if that's the thing that's killing me inside.
Whenever I've been close to finishing it, that clarity has been finally finding peace but smothered by the guilt of leaving others in pain.
I have concluded many times that I want recovery, the issue is recovery never succeeds and I'm always left in the same painful pit that I started my recovery in.
It all seems pointless and excruciating without an end any different to what the end will inevitably be anyway.
Sorry if I'm circling, it's just so hard because I want to stay for others but for myself there is no reason to stay and I can't figure out which way to tip the scale.

 

[Holu]

I have fight left, but I think I'll always have fight left even if that's the thing that's killing me inside.
Whenever I've been close to finishing it, that clarity has been finally finding peace but smothered by the guilt of leaving others in pain.
I have concluded many times that I want recovery, the issue is recovery never succeeds and I'm always left in the same painful pit that I started my recovery in.
It all seems pointless and excruciating without an end any different to what the end will inevitably be anyway.
Sorry if I'm circling, it's just so hard because I want to stay for others but for myself there is no reason to stay and I can't figure out which way to tip the scale.

Unfortunately if I had the answer to this, I'd be dead or not here.

Honestly, I understand the fight not dying out. Some spirits are just stronger than others.

Regardless time controls all. In time you will know. I promise.

But what to do right now? Again I sadly have no answer. As always, we as a community are here for you. If you need someone to talk to or hell even someone to play games with I'm sure u can easily find someone(or me if I'm available lmao).

I wish I could take your suffering. You're very brave staying alive for others. Nothing but the highest admiration.

Remaining here is poison. It will be nothing but agony and madness. We will do whatever we can to help.

 

[OceanBlue]

I can see why you and so many others are distrusting of them. My experience within therapy has shown how disconnected many mental health professionals are, as they seem incapable of actually empathizing with truly negative mindsets

No, you cannot see, bc if you could you wouldn't call this mindset 'negative' and wouldn't be a psych major in the first place. It's a corrupt profession that profits off suffering and does not challenge status quo, it's really similar to being a cop.

Still, I find it someone hurtful for you to say therapists aren't ethical. Contrary to popular belief, they are attempting to help you, even if it's in a pronatalist way.

If you call that 'help', you'll fit right in.

 

[Rainork]

It's your decision to make. I don't think you owe anyone staying around, but I also don't believe it's the others job to tell you to stay around or to live with the burden of advising other person to ctb. The real issue in my opinion is why you'd like others to debate or make this decision for you. The whole point of this site is that it is pro-choice, and it means your own choice too, I have no clue why you want others to make that decision for you.

I haven't asked anyone to debate or make a choice for me?
The point of this site is surely also being able to openly discuss our thoughts without judgement, so why are you judging me for being unsure of things?
At no point have I asked anyone to decide anything for me or tell me what to do- I have asked for opinions, thoughts and to see if anyone else relates to the struggles I have with not knowing what to do and being stuck in a constant battle with yourself.
If you don't have that struggle then I envy you, but please never shame anyone for not knowing whether to carry on pushing or whether to finally give in (after so many years of fighting themselves).
If you're here to judge my uncertainty in an open discussion I suggest you go to another post.

 

[Rainork]

I haven't asked anyone to debate or make a choice for me?
The point of this site is surely also being able to openly discuss our thoughts without judgement, so why are you judging me for being unsure of things?
At no point have I asked anyone to decide anything for me or tell me what to do- I have asked for opinions, thoughts and to see if anyone else relates to the struggles I have with not knowing what to do and being stuck in a constant battle with yourself.
If you don't have that struggle then I envy you, but please never shame anyone for not knowing whether to carry on pushing or whether to finally give in (after so many years of fighting themselves).
If you're here to judge my uncertainty in an open discussion I suggest you go to another post.

Just to add to this- the is a suicide discussion forum that I thought was without judgement to talk to like minded people.
Pro choice, yes. But that doesn't mean I have to know where I stand to post surely?