Discussion Should Assisted Suicide be legal for people under the age of 18?

[gracefulexit]

It should be legal for all ages!

 

[Yuqani]

To the people voting yes: are you also in favor of, say, sexual acts between adults and minors if the minor consents?
I'm not trying to derail, I'm genuinely interested in your logical consistency.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I'm guessing people here clearly want children to suffer.

 

[Yuqani]

I'm guessing people here clearly want children to suffer.

Suffering is NOT an instant justification for your death cult mentality.
SOME people have pushed through their suffering, are recovering and proud of it.

In my understanding, being pro choice presumes an informed individual acting as non-impulsive as possible.
Teens and Tweens cannot be trusted to consistently be that.

 

[AlexM]

I voted NO, NO and NO again. Are you ready, guys, who said YES, to give them rights voluntary euthanasia 10yo childs? 6yo? I'm not sure even 18yo is enough for it. Are you ready to give them rights drugs, alcohol, gun?

In my understanding, being pro choice presumes an informed individual acting as non-impulsive as possible.

Yes!

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Suffering is NOT an instant justification for your death cult mentality.
SOME people have pushed through their suffering, are recovering and proud of it.

In my understanding, being pro choice presumes an informed individual acting as non-impulsive as possible.
Teens and Tweens cannot be trusted to consistently be that.

What death cult? You're going to die anyways.
It is a justification for suicide. If someone regardless of age is suffering, they'll eventually come to the conclusion that they'll want to end their life.
Life is full of suffering. It's all around you. You're just being ignorant.
I didn't think there would be people on a suicide forum being ignorant to life's suffering. It really boggles my mind.

 

[AlexM]

Do you really want them to go through abuse and torture until the age of 18 or something?

Nobody wants it. But is it only way to cease abuse and torture?

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Nobody wants it. But is it only way to cease abuse and torture?

Life is suffering. Existence by its self is suffering. People who don't want to suffer want the pain to end. One way to permanently end that pain is through suicide. It's simple logic.

 

[Yuqani]

What death cult? You're going to die anyways.
It is a justification for suicide. If someone regardless of age is suffering, they'll eventually come to the conclusion that they'll want to end their life.
Life is full of suffering. It's all around you. You're just being ignorant.
I didn't think there would be people on a suicide forum being ignorant to life's suffering. It really boggles my mind.

I'm being ignorant of suffering, sure pal.
And I assure you, my life is filled with rainbows and strawberry cheesecake. My dog is also pooping $500 bills.
That's probably why I'm registered to a suicide forum.
Yes, completely delusional.

You're strawmanning my argument to no end.
You didn't even address the most important part of it - informed choice and statistics showing people overcoming the pain.

Edit: I'm opting out of this one, I realize I'm talking to an anti-natalist and there won't ever be anything worthwile coming out of this.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

I'm being ignorant of suffering, sure pal.
And I assure you, my life is filled with rainbows and strawberry cheesecake. My dog is also pooping $500 bills.
That's probably why I'm registered to a suicide forum.
Yes, completely delusional.

You're strawmanning my argument to no end.
You didn't even address the most important part of it - informed choice and statistics showing people overcoming the pain.

Logically speaking, life in ltself is a delusion because everything you have, the "happiness" and "experiences" you've had all go poof when you die. In other words, you won't remember.
Overcoming is another way of saying chasing after hedonic treadmills. Look up hedonic adaptation.

 

[AlexM]

informed choice

Key words!

 

[HereToday]

I'm being ignorant of suffering, sure pal.
And I assure you, my life is filled with rainbows and strawberry cheesecake. My dog is also pooping $500 bills.
That's probably why I'm registered to a suicide forum.
Yes, completely delusional.

You're strawmanning my argument to no end.
You didn't even address the most important part of it - informed choice and statistics showing people overcoming the pain.

Edit: I'm opting out on this one, I realize I'm talking to an anti-natalist and there won't ever be anything worthwile coming out of this.

Frankly I think anyone who thinks children who can't even control their anal sphincter or still wet the bed should be allowed to choose assisted suicide, has serious issues. I won't say they deserve to suffer or rot for their opinion though, unlike them I do wonder why they're still here if this forum/humanity itself is as bad as they say.
I hope that person doesn't go anywhere near children, their comments are worrying.

 

[InkBlot]

As someone who has been miserable most of my life, someone who was emotionally and physically tortured by the one person in my life who is supposed to love me unconditionally because she was my mother and my flesh and blood...

I do not believe suicide should be offered to anyone under the age of 21. Think about how many good and bad things happened to you everyday. Dont be negative, unless you are under constant pain, you can and will find good in anything. The same goes for bad. You can find anything in anything. Our lives change almost by the minute until we're in our mid twenties, I'd say. Even at 28, my life really hasnt settled down.

Now, if you want to be ignorant and say anyone has the right to die. Okay. Lets live in your fantasy world. Ive got a son, 6 years old. We go to Walmart, he asks me for a toy. I said no, tomorrow is your birthday you will get presents then. He becomes so enraged as a child, so upset. He says okay, I'll commit die. And right there he presses your fantasy suicide button, and boom. My son is dead over a temper tantrum, over things he can't understand. That makes perfect sense, lets make it legal. Babies dont get fed on time? Lets genetically modify them so the only thing they understand is their right to suicide. Jesus christ.

If youre talking disabilities, sure. Frankly, we have too many kids that have serious issues and the parents are too selfish to let them go, lets go back to the Spartan way and dropkick the deformed ones off a cliff, no biggie. But until 21, its not really a choice. More of an emotional response. Hell, the worse shit that ever happened to me was after I was 24, and the best shit that happened to me was after I was 22. I wouldn't trade the worst times of my life off, if it meant I couldnt experience the best.

If you really think none of it matters, and that we all are gonna die, then step in front of a bus now you coward. None of it matters, so let us squabble and you transcend your philosophy into your afterlife. Pro tip. Ive died and was revived. Nothing happens afterwards. Enjoy your deep thoughts about children dying because of temper tantrums. Jesus. Some people...

 

[k75]

I think it's very complicated. In general, it's a hard no from me. I strongly believe a person's situation and outlook could change and improve once they become independent and can escape the things that are making them feel miserable. Life is hard before you're considered an adult, when you have no control over your life. And teenagers can be very impulsive, and little things easily get blown out of proportion. It's just a bad mix. I don't want anyone to suffer, but I think they should have a fighting chance.

Obviously, there are situations where the damage is too great to be fixed. And there are terminal illnesses. I think these should be given special consideration on a case by case basis.

 

[nonamegirl]

I suffered a lot as a child and teenager too, and struggled with suicidal thoughts, but I'm so glad that euthanasia wasnt an option then. Even though my adult life has been mostly miserable, their has been some better days and I am in a way thankful I got a shot at adult life, even though it hasnt worked out to my satisfaction. At least now I can go to my death (if I wish to) and really say that I've given it a fair shot.

There are a number of people who have had horrible childhoods but have managed to make their life awesome once they became independant and could shape their life, free from the shackles of their parents or other caregivers. It's an awful thought to think that these people could have been dead and deprived of that, if euthanasia for children was allowed.

I voted no, but of course if we are talking about euthanasia for terminal illness in children, then that's another debate. I can see the reason in that. as of now, I think everybody should give adult life a shot. And if a child sufferes due to abuse from their caregivers then obviously the reasonable thing to do is take them out of this enviroment and place them with caring people.......not euthanize them.

 

[littleflower88]

In Oregon, you have to be at least 18 years of age to make that end of life decision.

What do you think?

Is that legal in Oregon?

 

[Fragile]

To the people voting yes: are you also in favor of, say, sexual acts between adults and minors if the minor consents?
I'm not trying to derail, I'm genuinely interested in your logical consistency.

I voted yes simply because there is no in between option, this is a very complicated subject that can't be solved with a yes or no answer.

and to answer your question, NO, because there are two people involved and one is almost 100% manipulation the other into those sexual acts, adults that try to have such relationships with minors always have a manipulative mindset and do it from a position of power over them, the most common cases are priests and teachers, both have ways to make the child think that what they're doing is ok by giving them stuff or promising things like better grades, the minor might consent but it was because someone else manipulated them into it.

when it comes to assisted death, sure, someone can manipulate a child into thinking that it's ok and they should do it, but it should be a case by case scenario like i said before, i've seen children with terminal and mental illnesses so severe that i just couldn't work at that field any longer, it is hearth crushing to see a child with advanced cancer or a deadly genetic disorder being kept alive against their will and living in the most painful and dehumanizing way possible. but what really broke me was seeing children suffer from early onset schizophrenia and other severe mental conditions, some had PTSD so bad that they couldn't even hear footsteps without breaking into tears because of the memories of the terrible things that they went through. some may get better and some others may not, but who are we to force people into a live that they don't want? i say that if a condition has no possible or realistic way of improving then that's a case where i'd say yes without a single doubt, maybe people who say no to those cases have never seeing children with truly horrific lives.

 

[Yuqani]

[...]
and to answer your question, NO, because there are two people involved and one is almost 100% manipulation the other into those sexual acts, adults that try to have such relationships with minors always have a manipulative mindset [...]

when it comes to assisted death [...] it should be a case by case scenario like i said before, i've seen children with terminal and mental illnesses so severe that i just couldn't work at that field any longer, it is hearth crushing to see a child with advanced cancer or a deadly genetic disorder being kept alive against their will and living in the most painful and dehumanizing way possible. but what really broke me was seeing children suffer from early onset schizophrenia and other severe mental conditions, some had PTSD so bad that they couldn't even hear footsteps without breaking into tears because of the memories of the terrible things that they went through. some may get better and some others may not, but who are we to force people into a live that they don't want? i say that if a condition has no possible or realistic way of improving then that's a case where i'd say yes without a single doubt, maybe people who say no to those cases have never seeing children with truly horrific lives.

You're not being wrong, per se, just very biased.
You picked the worst possible scenarios of adult-minor relationships and asserted that this is a 100% representation, no case to case consideration there. Adults always being predatory or coersive, when this is obviously not always true, as you literally claimed.

Just to be perfectly clear, power dynamics found in such relationships and others are very much unethical, imo.
It just so happens I talked to a few women and own books where women describe their 100% consensual teenage sexuality, and adults sometimes played a part.
Who am I to judge them for it?
It is a much, much smaller decision to make than to end ones life.

Anyway...
Nothing changes the insanity of you voting yes on the general idea of unconditional euthenasia of minors based on, what, a 1 in a million or less chance of suffering we currently have no treatment for, with no hope of effective therapy or any possible coping.
Really now?

I know you acknowledged you'd rather have a middle ground, but you'd still sound more rational saying "No! But I want there to be exceptions".
Funny how nuance suddenly became important to you here, but not earlier.

 

[Fragile]

You're not being wrong, per se, just very biased.
You picked the worst possible scenarios of adult-minor relationships and asserted that this is a 100% representation, no case to case consideration there. Adults always being predatory or coersive, when this is obviously not always true, as you literally claimed.

Just to be perfectly clear, power dynamics found in such relationships and others are very much unethical, imo.
It just so happens I talked to a few women and own books where women describe their 100% consensual teenage sexuality, and adults sometimes played a part.
Who am I to judge them for it?
It is a much, much smaller decision to make than to end ones life.

Anyway...
Nothing changes the insanity of you voting yes on the general idea of unconditional euthenasia of minors based on, what, a 1 in a million or less chance of suffering we currently have no treatment for, with no hope of effective therapy or any possible coping.
Really now?

I know you acknowledged you'd rather have a middle ground, but you'd still sound more rational saying "No! But I want there to be exceptions".
Funny how nuance suddenly became important to you here, but not earlier.

never did i say that those 2 cases were the only ones, i said that they were the most common cases and that almost all were from a position of power, maybe i just suck at explaining myself but please don't put words in my mouth.

and for the cases that you mentioned, a teenage is someone of what, 14 to 19 years of age? i thought that we were talking about children here and in my opinion, those age ranges are totally different, some countries consider you a fully adult since ages 15 or 16 but absolutely no country will say the same for an 8 year old.
of course this was my mistake since as you said, i'm extremely biased on this 2 subjects and i jumped to a conclusion. i was a victim of sexual abuse as a child (although that was definitely without any of my consent) and as i mentioned before, i've seen the worst possible cases of children suffering through terminal illnesses and being kept alive against their will.

just out of pure curiosity, what will you answer to your own question given that you know of some situations in which a minor consented to such relationships?

and i voted yes because there is no in between and that answer is the closest to what i believe, of course this is a case by case question and an entire team of doctors, psychiatrists and family members should have the final say on children assisted death if they expressed their wishes to do so, i never said that the kids should have the final decision on this.
and yes, that 1 million case is still enough to make me vote yes, that girl didn't deserve to die such horrible death because some people believe that she didn't deserved some dignity. i didn't see the whole aftermath, but from what a friend told me, she was very vocal about wanting to die until she couldn't because her cancer consumer her brain, and she was kept alive even after that point for over 2 months. but i'm the insane one for believing that she could've been spared from all of that.

i believe that all opinions are inherently biased, maybe if you had seen that then we would agree.
sorry if i'm coming off as callous or something, like i said i suck at explaining myself and this is a specially touchy subject for me.

 

[Yuqani]

just out of pure curiosity, what will you answer to your own question given that you know of some situations in which a minor consented to such relationships?

Ideally, I'd want there to be as little power dynamic as possible.
So of course, I would not want adults preying on children, nor any financial dependence trapping you inside a relationship, for example.

and yes, that 1 million case is still enough to make me vote yes, that girl didn't deserve to die such horrible death because some people believe that she didn't deserved some dignity. i didn't see the whole aftermath, but from what a friend told me, she was very vocal about wanting to die until she couldn't because her cancer consumer her brain, and she was kept alive even after that point for over 2 months. but i'm the insane one for believing that she could've been spared from all of that.

I don't know that particular story, and I did not call you insane for that, I promise.
As I understand, this poll isn't about those unluckiest of children your heart bleeds for.

For every young soul such a policy could spare much pain, there'd be thousands of irrational, tantrum-throwing, hormone-charged other souls being thrown under the bus.

Don't forget where we write - I doubt that those people voting "No" are being absolutist about it. I most certainly think most people here would be fine with exceptions within reason.

i believe that all opinions are inherently biased, maybe if you had seen that then we would agree.
sorry if i'm coming off as callous or something, like i said i suck at explaining myself and this is a specially touchy subject for me.

I'm fine. You're fine. We're fine. No need to go anywhere personal or uncomfortable.
I do believe there are ways to minimize the bias in your opinions, however. I value and appreciate people who try to do that.

 

[Dayrain]

Yes. Fundamental right means no age restriction.

 

[valkyrie]

I don't think it's right, most teens are super stuck in the present being awful they can't focus on a future, I was the same way
Life gets a whole lot better for a lot of kids once they can leave their family/hometown
If life still sucks after adulthood by all means I think it should be legal but death isn't going to go anywhere, they can wait a little while and if they are very intent on doing it I'm sure they will do it without assistance.

 

[chloramine]

I would think it should be decided on a situational basis. I can see instances where it would be fair to ask them to wait while providing other assistance, but other cases where it would be forcing them to suffer without any real hope of improvement. I don't think that I would ever be able to make that call for them regardless.

 

[Source Energy]

So, what, the suffering of underage people does not deserve relief? I've been suicidal since 13. 30 years later, I have nothing but a life of pain to look back on. Anybody of any age should be able to ctb anytime for whatever reason.

To the people voting yes: are you also in favor of, say, sexual acts between adults and minors if the minor consents?
I'm not trying to derail, I'm genuinely interested in your logical consistency.

Yes. If it is consensual and enjoyed by both why not. Tired of ppl who think they know better what is best for someone else, minor or not.

 

[resolutory]

I think it depends. I think they should have to be at least 18 if there's nothing physically wrong with them. But if they're physically ill then I think younger is fine.

 

[Disaster]

There's no good solution to that. "Deciding case by case" can, and usually does turn into a form of oppression. Still no control at all would be an abuse too, not only because the brain is still developing etc. but also because a kid, depended of others, could be coerced into an "assisted suicide" when they actually want to live (just likely with a family that doesn't want to murder them!). Honestly some of you sound like the pro-birthers who enjoy torturing women by denying them an abortion if they don't want to be pregnant.
About the terminal illness, we put down animals, so denying this mercy to a kid sounds cruel as hell.
But emotional pain can be agonizing too. Yet "assisted suicide", "Medical Aid In Dying" etc. could be a convenient way to get rid of people who are just goddamn expensive to keep alive. I hate the idea of torturing someone to not let others be murdered tho.
It does suck. Thus creating new humans with immature brains should stop ASAP. But this won't happen, because despite of some exceptions, humane are programmed to live and reproduce.
I would never, ever start to be a sentient being if I had a choice, but of course you can't give a choice to a being that isn't sentient and rational. The time people spend being sentient but not rational yet is not possible to ethically justify. No one should be going through that.

 

[FuneralCry]

I believe so, as existence isn't an obligation. After being so unfairly forced into this world in the first place the option of a peaceful way to exit is what people deserve. Nobody should ever have to resort to risky suicide methods or suffer for any longer than they wish to, it's cruel to try to force people to continue existing against their wishes. I really wish I left when I was much younger.

 

[sorrowful]

difficult to say for me, i would say yes but that is only in reference to myself as i've felt how i do right now throughout childhood and teens, failed attempts, went through endless therapy that got me nowhere, ended up on drugs, made an irreversible mess of my life. i'd say no for anyone else.

 

[TransMagical]

I would say yes if any if theese conditions are met;

Life long health condition that cant get better, stays same or worsens.

Evaluated to have very complex trauma/psychological disorders that it would likely be to better benefit to kill then then help((may be near impossible, take 5+ years, or even when they get better not being able to function normally(ptsd attacks that will stick forever that interfere with normal life) ))

Orphan/no living family members that can take care of them and been in foster system/orphanage for more then 7 years






Edit; id say 16+ only tho still unless its like a special case where its like "yeah they feel constant pain and are allergic to the only medicine that works and its a lifelong thing" kinda deal then 10-13 would be ok

 

[metalpi]

no, unless it isn't rash and is totally understood. it took me so long to realize my previous suicide attempts were rash and out of control. you should die when you want to but when you can achieve what you wanted to do in your own means. unfortunately the reality of the world limits that but it's better to die happy than sad and bitter

if you can meet those circumstances, then yes, absolutely if you're in sound mind, absolutely.

I would say yes if any if theese conditions are met;

Life long health condition that cant get better, stays same or worsens.

Evaluated to have very complex trauma/psychological disorders that it would likely be to better benefit to kill then then help((may be near impossible, take 5+ years, or even when they get better not being able to function normally(ptsd attacks that will stick forever that interfere with normal life) ))

Orphan/no living family members that can take care of them and been in foster system/orphanage for more then 7nv years






Edit; id say 16+ only tho still unless its like a special case where its like "yeah they feel constant pain and are allergic to the only medicine that works and its a lifelong thing" kinda deal then 10-13 would be ok

imo even if it takes 5+ years playing ball if worth it. it never gets rid of the suicidal feelings but you come to terms with life and its realities.... but at least you'll die with more dignity and acceptance

unless they really cannot do more and it is insanely hard to possible to make those leaps in treatment... which happens but it must not be rash...