Discussion Sex workers

[Bazinga]

watch out for sesta and fosta. I hope the admins arent american because the conversations here might give a pretext to arrest them.

 

[Laststop]

How does one get started as a prostitute? Are there certain websites? I need money lol

There are lots of online "cam girls" type stuff too where people make money setting up a home studio. Which looks little more than setting up a web cam, and interacting with people via a laptop. If you've never been there, check out Chaturbate. Watching some live streams should give you an idea of how it works in short time. I mean....not that I've ever spent any time there......

 

[angelicism999]

No. I'm a boring heterosexual male. Gay sex turns me off and I've never met a woman who wanted to pay money to have sex with me.

I've never visited a sex worker myself either. I genuinely feel everybody has the right to do with his/her body whatever they want but I think in the heart, no woman wants that kind of life. Call me naïve but something must have happened or is happening in her life that makes her go out to earn money that way. It doesn't matter if she's doing it completely out of free will (to get through uni for example), I just can't get past that point in my mind.

I would feel like I'd be harming her dignity.
It just turns me off.

this is a really sweet thought, but i feel like it's not just like that? i think it's probably true that there's always some kind of history that leads ppl to this kind of work, but i don't think that means we're totally abject and 'forced' into all the decisions we make. i feel for a lot of people sex work is a tool to get out of places and to assert agency in situations where they're otherwise pretty powerless. those situations wouldn't have disappeared if we'd just decided not to work, we'd just have had one fewer resource to take care of ourselves. i think it's v kind and humane to have the concerns that you do, but ultimately our dignity comes from us being human beings and wouldn't be damaged just from you sleeping with us. and like a lot of the ppl i'm most grateful to have been clients who hired me but still treated me like a person. and that doesn't feel normalizing to me? b/c it always seemed to speak to a kind of recognition for how i was brought here by material issues like abuse and neglect, rather than by quasi-religious stuff like moral injury

 

[Alec]

Well, it has less to do with diginity, and more like.. I hold intimacy in high regards. I can't be close to anybody unless I feel like they are "the one". I feel by being intimate with another person, I become more volnureable and weak. Silly, I know, but that's how I am. I've no interest in sex otherwise.

I think that's ok. To feel like you only want to be sexual with somebody that means something to you, something more than just a body. Many people feel that way I assume, and it makes sense in a lot of ways. In the end I think it's just about our personal personalities. In any case, you don't need my "I think that's ok" to know and feel like it's ok. Whatever you feel about your personal matters is ok.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Ah the injustice of being born a male then we can´t just sell our bodies for cash, girls making more doing cam shows than men do working full time life is so unfair.

 

[Rocksandsand]

Ah the injustice of being born a male then we can´t just sell our bodies for cash, girls making more doing cam shows than men do working full time life is so unfair.

I don't think you're factoring in how fucked up adult entertainment is to work in. Or that 'just selling [your] body' is actually quite strenuous - moreso than most mainstream jobs. The cam girls, strippers, and prostitutes that I have known over the years leave with a lot more issues than when they came in with.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

I don't think you're factoring in how fucked up adult entertainment is to work in. Or that 'just selling [your] body' is actually quite strenuous - moreso than most mainstream jobs. The cam girls, strippers, and prostitutes that I have known over the years leave with a lot more issues than when they came in with.

Nonetheless they can still earn a living while men have only 2 options if they face financial problems; hit the street or suicide.
And this is just the money part I would love if girls would pay me for such services the amount of validation would make me feel so amazing just knowing another person (no matter how ugly) actually not only was attracted to my body or face but so much they would pay money to interact with it in some way.

 

[Morphinekiss]

Nonetheless they can still earn a living while men have only 2 options if they face financial problems; hit the street or suicide.
And this is just the money part I would love if girls would pay me for such services the amount of validation would make me feel so amazing just knowing another person (no matter how ugly) actually not only was attracted to my body or face but so much they would pay money to interact with it in some way.

I know plenty of male escorts, strippers, and sugar babies. You're acting like it's an exclusive girls club. It's not.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

I know plenty of male escorts, strippers, and sugar babies. You're acting like it's an exclusive girls club. It's not.

It is exlusively a girls club only extremely good looking men can be looky to land such a job but basically any girl can and there are plenty of evidence to back it up.

 

[Morphinekiss]

It is exlusively a girls club only extremely good looking men can be looky to land such a job but basically any girl can and there are plenty of evidence to back it up.

You're just made we figured out a way to monetize out tits and vagina to make bank, even though men still make more in pretty much any place of employment than their female equal, and there is plenty of evidence to back that up.

 

[angelicism999]

It is exlusively a girls club only extremely good looking men can be looky to land such a job but basically any girl can and there are plenty of evidence to back it up.

honey.... like if yr willing to suck dick for money, you can find that work lol. male sex workers aren't some whacky hypothetical thing you just made up, they're called hustlers. and lots of guys work for women too, and if you're not a part of that world it's b/c it's literally the same world as the one you're living in, with the same beauty/attractiveness standards. women aren't working cause we're given a pass, we work cause we either measure up or are willing to do desperate shit to compensate. that's the job.

*EDIT: also, _massively high rates of rape and violence_!!! i'm sorry but like hello!!!!

 

[thomasdoyletad]

I don't think you're factoring in how fucked up adult entertainment is to work in. Or that 'just selling [your] body' is actually quite strenuous - moreso than most mainstream jobs. The cam girls, strippers, and prostitutes that I have known over the years leave with a lot more issues than when they came in with.

It would still be an option for someone who is broke. A potentially lucrative source of income that doesn't require lengthy or expensive training, education, etc., that's the stuff of dreams for a lot of down-and-out folks.

You're just made we figured out a way to monetize out tits and vagina to make bank, even though men still make more in pretty much any place of employment than their female equal, and there is plenty of evidence to back that up.

In fairness men make more money almost entirely because they work longer hours in higher paying, often high stress/dangerous jobs

male sex workers aren't some whacky hypothetical thing you just made up, they're called hustlers. and lots of guys work for women too, and if you're not a part of that world it's b/c it's literally the same world as the one you're living in, with the same beauty/attractiveness standards.

Yeah, this just isn't true. I've known plenty of sex workers - male and female - and the bar is way lower for women. Only young men willing to go gay for pay don't have wildly higher standards.

*EDIT: also, _massively high rates of rape and violence_!!! i'm sorry but like hello!!!!

This is a horrible downside of full-service sex work in places where it isn't legal. It's one of the reasons I support full decriminalisation. I have zero interest in sex workers myself, but making it illegal just authors unspeakable misery, and is a wonderful way to enable pimps, rapists, human traffickers and even killers.

 

[angelicism999]

It would still be an option for someone who is broke. A potentially lucrative source of income that doesn't require lengthy or expensive training, education, etc., that's the stuff of dreams for a lot of down-and-out folks.



In fairness men make more money almost entirely because they work longer hours in higher paying, often high stress/dangerous jobs



Yeah, this just isn't true. I've known plenty of sex workers - male and female - and the bar is way lower for women. Only young men willing to go gay for pay don't have wildly higher standards.



This is a horrible downside of full-service sex work in places where it isn't legal. It's one of the reasons I support full decriminalisation. I have zero interest in sex workers myself, but making it illegal just authors unspeakable misery, and is a wonderful way to enable pimps, rapists, human traffickers and even killers.

sex work will stop being a girl's club when buying sex isn't such a boy's club. you guys act like exclusion from education and work is like a thing women just chose for themselves, while our having to work in a super stigmatized, _stressful_, and often violent trade that caters mostly to male sexual need is a privilege. our bosses are men, our customers are men, the abusers who brought us here are men, most of the people who make this situation what it is are men! it might be unfair that dudes don't want to fuck themselves enough to pay a living wage but that is literally not our fault

 

[thomasdoyletad]

sex work will stop being a girl's club when buying sex isn't such a boy's club.

If we actually had anything like gender equality then there would be no point in women commodifying their sexuality. It would have no special value. There would be no sex industry, or it would be a tiny niche market. That would be the ideal situation for me, but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.

you guys act like exclusion from education and work is like a thing women just chose for themselves, while our having to work in a super stigmatized, _stressful_, and often violent trade that caters mostly to male sexual need is a privilege.

OK, so where I live women are not excluded from education. In fact despite enjoying far superior educational outcomes across the board they are still the only beneficiaries of any targeted grants of special help in this area. Nor are they excluded from work. In fact women tend to out-earn men in aggregate in younger demographics (i.e prior to having children) and even after that the primary cause of their lower-earnings is because they choose to have kids and work less to spend more time with them (paid paternity leave, and heavily subsidised childcare exists here so no this isn't something they're forced to do, though I aknowledge there are socio-cultural forces at work that do constrain or limit people's choices and sexism is one of them, but it goes both ways) and despite that they still control more consumer spending regardless, and while it's true there are male dominated industries in which women struggle there is real money and effort being put into addressing this; no such luck for men trying to enter female dominated industries. But I doubt any of this is relevant to your life experience in the slightest. These are benefits enjoyed by luckier demographics.

But you know all those benefits you hear about men having? None of them have been relevant to my life experience.

I'm sorry if it makes you feel like I'm taking a shot at women when I say that it shits me that I've personally known women in my position (viz a viz lack of education, work experience, social connections) who could bank six figure incomes (while living in nice, state-subsidised housing, an option that is basically nonexistent for men here) trading on their looks despite being totally average looking and not especially fit, while I couldn't do the same, or even find a minimum wage job washing dishes or digging ditches, while 40% of my income goes straight into my landlords pocket to live in a suburb where I've had my head kicked in twice in a house that once had no front door for a month. But that's not why I say it.

I don't remember ever saying women are to blame for this.

That doesn't mean I can't personally feel ripped off. I'm not saying it's their fault or that those women had it good (though I remind you even full-service sex work is decriminalised and quite safe here, and women make up a grand total of 0.8% of all workplace fatalities and about 2% of injuries, there are worse ways to make a living here) it's just an option they had which I didn't, and the fact that other men may have enjoyed options they didn't is totally irrelevant to my experience. I'm not the totality of my sex. I don't have to feel grateful because men who aren't me have some advantages you didn't, but I can empathise with the fact that you might feel ripped off by that. Can you do the same? Nor am I saying street-walkers in the US and the like have it good. In fact I remember explicitly stating that I support full decriminalisation of sex work because it makes it a billion times safer, puts pimps out of work, curbs human trafficking and reduces stigmatisation. When I say, 'I have zero interest in sex workers,' I mean I don't patronise them. Not that I could afford to either way but I don't like the industry because of the gender dichotomy it reinforces. That doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to do their job in safety or should be stigmatised for it.

But even setting full-service sex work aside there are a million ways to commodify your sexuality that are primarily only an option for young women. In fact a recent meta-analysis of self-sexualisation made it pretty clear the primary driver is income inequality between women not gender inequality; that women further down the socio-economic ladder invest more in their looks and sexualise themselves because it actually does raise their social status and bring real professional rewards, and nowhere is this more true than in places with the highest levels of so-called gender equality. So don't tell me this is all men's fault. Of course men - in general - contribute to the perpetuation of these cultural norms (although it's not something I do, or support) but so - in general - do women. I don't support that either.

Also on the subject of stigmatisation I can tell you being an unemployed, disabled male rape survivor with zero friends and no family is no walk in the park. I actually used to be pretty fit and good looking (prior to my teeth mostly falling out and my health going to shit) and it never helped me worth a damn. The only time women have ever shown any interest in me was to scam me and the only physical contact I've had with other humans in the last fifteen years has been in the form of abuse.

Honestly, I could go on, and I hope you don't think I'm ranting at you or trying to take a shot at you. People do what they have to in order to get by, and that's fine by me, they didn't create the culture which made it necessary for them to do so. But I'm going to go to sleep instead of saying more, though maybe read my earlier comments on this thread. You might see I do actually know something about the shit sex workers go through and that I do sympathise.

 

[angelicism999]

If we actually had anything like gender equality then there would be no point in women commodifying their sexuality. It would have no special value. There would be no sex industry, or it would be a tiny niche market. That would be the ideal situation for me, but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.



OK, so where I live women are not excluded from education. In fact despite enjoying far superior educational outcomes across the board they are still the only beneficiaries of any targeted grants of special help in this area. Nor are they excluded from work. In fact women tend to out-earn men in aggregate in younger demographics (i.e prior to having children) and even after that the primary cause of their lower-earnings is because they choose to have kids and work less to spend more time with them (paid paternity leave, and heavily subsidised childcare exists here so no this isn't something they're forced to do, though I aknowledge there are socio-cultural forces at work that do constrain or limit people's choices and sexism is one of them, but it goes both ways) and despite that they still control more consumer spending regardless, and while it's true there are male dominated industries in which women struggle there is real money and effort being put into addressing this; no such luck for men trying to enter female dominated industries. But I doubt any of this is relevant to your life experience in the slightest. These are benefits enjoyed by luckier demographics.

But you know all those benefits you hear about men having? None of them have been relevant to my life experience.

I'm sorry if it makes you feel like I'm taking a shot at women when I say that it shits me that I've personally known women in my position (viz a viz lack of education, work experience, social connections) who could bank six figure incomes (while living in nice, state-subsidised housing, an option that is basically nonexistent for men here) trading on their looks despite being totally average looking and not especially fit, while I couldn't do the same, or even find a minimum wage job washing dishes or digging ditches, while 40% of my income goes straight into my landlords pocket to live in a suburb where I've had my head kicked in twice in a house that once had no front door for a month. But that's not why I say it.

I don't remember ever saying women are to blame for this.

That doesn't mean I can't personally feel ripped off. I'm not saying it's their fault or that those women had it good (though I remind you even full-service sex work is decriminalised and quite safe here, and women make up a grand total of 0.8% of all workplace fatalities and about 2% of injuries, there are worse ways to make a living here) it's just an option they had which I didn't, and the fact that other men may have enjoyed options they didn't is totally irrelevant to my experience. I'm not the totality of my sex. I don't have to feel grateful because men who aren't me have some advantages you didn't, but I can empathise with the fact that you might feel ripped off by that. Can you do the same? Nor am I saying street-walkers in the US and the like have it good. In fact I remember explicitly stating that I support full decriminalisation of sex work because it makes it a billion times safer, puts pimps out of work, curbs human trafficking and reduces stigmatisation. When I say, 'I have zero interest in sex workers,' I mean I don't patronise them. Not that I could afford to either way but I don't like the industry because of the gender dichotomy it reinforces. That doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to do their job in safety or should be stigmatised for it.

But even setting full-service sex work aside there are a million ways to commodify your sexuality that are primarily only an option for young women. In fact a recent meta-analysis of self-sexualisation made it pretty clear the primary driver is income inequality between women not gender inequality; that women further down the socio-economic ladder invest more in their looks and sexualise themselves because it actually does raise their social status and bring real professional rewards, and nowhere is this more true than in places with the highest levels of so-called gender equality. So don't tell me this is all men's fault. Of course men - in general - contribute to the perpetuation of these cultural norms (although it's not something I do, or support) but so - in general - do women. I don't support that either.

Also on the subject of stigmatisation I can tell you being an unemployed, disabled male rape survivor with zero friends and no family is no walk in the park. I actually used to be pretty fit and good looking (prior to my teeth mostly falling out and my health going to shit) and it never helped me worth a damn. The only time women have ever shown any interest in me was to scam me and the only physical contact I've had with other humans in the last fifteen years has been in the form of abuse.

Honestly, I could go on, and I hope you don't think I'm ranting at you or trying to take a shot at you. People do what they have to in order to get by, and that's fine by me, they didn't create the culture which made it necessary for them to do so. But I'm going to go to sleep instead of saying more, though maybe read my earlier comments on this thread. You might see I do actually know something about the shit sex workers go through and that I do sympathise.

i'm so so sorry that you were so abused and exploited. you didn't deserve that at All and i really wish it never happened to you. but right now you feel aggrieved that one of the most exploited and abused groups of the people alive are able to live their own lives by doing work you've never had to do and i can't understand that. i don't know what the woman who's finally able to make a decent living despite the sexism and objectification that's still built into her labor is taking from you that makes you feel ripped off. i don't know what resource she's got ahold of, whether it's her body, or her "average" looks, or other people's desire for her that wasn't hers to begin with. i don't know what about her using her sexuality to make her way makes her less deserving of what she has than the thousands of men who are taking advantage of sexism to advance themselves and bullying women out of academia and stem fields and everything else. just because you haven't personally benefited from those advantages doesn't mean they don't exist, and just because they're irrelevant to your experience doesn't mean they're irrelevant to the world you're living in. you're mad that this woman is not pretty enough in your eyes to be worthy of making a living, and you're ascribing her value to her physical characteristics like a _thing_. you're ignoring all the physical and emotional work it takes to make yourself presentable and responsive and able to take care of the dudes who pay to fuck you, who for that hour or whatever think of you basically as a possession they can use. you don't know the demands they make, and you don't know what it's like to make yourself the instrument of someone else's sexuality for your job. it's a kind of effort that outside of your particular milieu (and even probably in it) is habitually and unfairly required of women, and at any rate it's work that you literally said you have never done and know nothing about. but you still know the value of that work because youre talking about the pain of not having someone take care of you that way. and i don't want to make this about me but literally literally i have never been taken care of that way, and so many women who are doing this job for other people haven't ever been taken care of that way, and we think we don't /deserve/ to be because of this fricking job we have. if you haven't been witness to that because of your luckier demographics then i'm glad for you but i don't know why you're making your very not-the-norm experiences into a general thing. i feel for you and the violence that has been done to you but you don't know what it's like to work from violence. you haven't had to fight off three rape attempts a month and still make yourself confident and eager enough to face the next random stranger who'll pick you up. you don't know what it's like to grow that part of your personality that's tailored made to talk people down from raping you, or to keep them calm and unviolent after they've done it. this work IS abuse a lot of the times, and a lot of us are survivors who never got more than a couple months' distance from our abuse because those same people are the folks who buy us. this a reality we face on the daily that your anger and envy are provisionalizing, that you're asking me to provisionalize too so i can accept your civilian-ass perspective, and that's just really hard to swallow. you have the right to your feelings and i'm not gonna tell you what to think, but you have no business asking me to empathize with your ignorance, b/c you really, really aren't showing that empathy to me.

 

[Rocksandsand]

Nonetheless they can still earn a living while men have only 2 options if they face financial problems; hit the street or suicide.
And this is just the money part I would love if girls would pay me for such services the amount of validation would make me feel so amazing just knowing another person (no matter how ugly) actually not only was attracted to my body or face but so much they would pay money to interact with it in some way.

i'm so so sorry that you were so abused and exploited. you didn't deserve that at All and i really wish it never happened to you. but right now you feel aggrieved that one of the most exploited and abused groups of the people alive are able to live their own lives by doing work you've never had to do and i can't understand that. i don't know what the woman who's finally able to make a decent living despite the sexism and objectification that's still built into her labor is taking from you that makes you feel ripped off. i don't know what resource she's got ahold of, whether it's her body, or her "average" looks, or other people's desire for her that wasn't hers to begin with. i don't know what about her using her sexuality to make her way makes her less deserving of what she has than the thousands of men who are taking advantage of sexism to advance themselves and bullying women out of academia and stem fields and everything else. just because you haven't personally benefited from those advantages doesn't mean they don't exist, and just because they're irrelevant to your experience doesn't mean they're irrelevant to the world you're living in. you're mad that this woman is not pretty enough in your eyes to be worthy of making a living, and you're ascribing her value to her physical characteristics like a _thing_. you're ignoring all the physical and emotional work it takes to make yourself presentable and responsive and able to take care of the dudes who pay to fuck you, who for that hour or whatever think of you basically as a possession they can use. you don't know the demands they make, and you don't know what it's like to make yourself the instrument of someone else's sexuality for your job. it's a kind of effort that outside of your particular milieu (and even probably in it) is habitually and unfairly required of women, and at any rate it's work that you literally said you have never done and know nothing about. but you still know the value of that work because youre talking about the pain of not having someone take care of you that way. and i don't want to make this about me but literally literally i have never been taken care of that way, and so many women who are doing this job for other people haven't ever been taken care of that way, and we think we don't /deserve/ to be because of this fricking job we have. if you haven't been witness to that because of your luckier demographics then i'm glad for you but i don't know why you're making your very not-the-norm experiences into a general thing. i feel for you and the violence that has been done to you but you don't know what it's like to work from violence. you haven't had to fight off three rape attempts a month and still make yourself confident and eager enough to face the next random stranger who'll pick you up. you don't know what it's like to grow that part of your personality that's tailored made to talk people down from raping you, or to keep them calm and unviolent after they've done it. this work IS abuse a lot of the times, and a lot of us are survivors who never got more than a couple months' distance from our abuse because those same people are the folks who buy us. this a reality we face on the daily that your anger and envy are provisionalizing, that you're asking me to provisionalize too so i can accept your civilian-ass perspective, and that's just really hard to swallow. you have the right to your feelings and i'm not gonna tell you what to think, but you have no business asking me to empathize with your ignorance, b/c you really, really aren't showing that empathy to me.

I honestly didn't know how to respond the post made by @TheGoodGuy in a kind way. You did such a good job.

 

[Ixtabba]

I used to be a sex worker for 5 years and I was well known and respected (I made a lot of money)where I worked... a big city in England. Now I'm on the verge of homelessness and poor. Funny how life goes eh.

 

[thomasdoyletad]

but right now you feel aggrieved that one of the most exploited and abused groups of the people alive...

Please provide some evidence that Sydney's sex workers are one of the most exploited and abused groups of people alive. In fact I can tell you right now that's nonsense. I've personally known numerous sex workers in this city. Dated one briefly. I count a well known advocate for decriminalisation who does full service sex work in this city (and you can check out her blogs if you like) as a personal friend and can throw as many blogs, police studies and youtube channels as you want at you in which they themselves will tell you that this is not true. That it is, in fact, an extremely damaging stereotype that the workers themselves despise. Moreover you clearly did not read, 'but even setting full-service sex work aside there are a million ways to commodify your sexuality that are primarily only an option for young women.' do you think some twitch streaming gamer girl who makes 100k a year off Patreon subscriptions to play video games in a low cut t-shirt is from 'one of the most exploited and abused groups of the people alive' because if so again I'll ask for some evidence of that, though I'd politely suggest that none exists.

i don't know what the woman who's finally able to make a decent living despite the sexism and objectification that's still built into her labor is taking from you that makes you feel ripped off.

From my comment, I quote, 'That doesn't mean I can't personally feel ripped off. I'm not saying it's their fault.' If you want to know the full list of social issues that make me feel ripped off I can give it to you, but to be honest I think it would take longer to write than I can be bothered with. Most of them have nothing to do with the people benefiting from them and don't involve anyone taking anything from me. The issue is cultural, and it has nothing to do with street walkers, human trafficking victims, Indian preteens working in roadside brothels or any other cultural red herrings which are totally, or near totally irrelevant to my environment.

i don't know what about her using her sexuality to make her way makes her less deserving of what she has than the thousands of men who are taking advantage of sexism to advance themselves and bullying women out of academia and stem fields and everything else. just because you haven't personally benefited from those advantages doesn't mean they don't exist, and just because they're irrelevant to your experience doesn't mean they're irrelevant to the world you're living in.

Who said anything about people being deserving? I don't care about what other men do. I told you I'm not the totality of my sex. Besides which most of the stuff you're talking about is irrelevant here; I repeat again women dominate academia in this country, both as students, teachers and administrators. That's a fact. Please do some research. About 80% of academic professionals are women. The number drops off slightly among college professors and high-level administrators, but is still stacked in their favour in aggregate especially in the humanities and arts. Universities are beacons of progressive ideology most of which contain vast, lavishly state-funded departments full of women entirely devoted to women's issues and problems.

Women aren't being bullied out of STEM fields. They completely dominate the healthcare field for one, and there are zero systemic barriers preventing women from working as engineers, architects, etc., and endless grants and programs to help them. My step-sister is a civic engineer who makes bank and laughs at the idea that it's a boys club or that she shouldn't wear a short skirt when visiting a construction site. As I said, 'women tend to out-earn men in aggregate in younger demographics (i.e prior to having children) and even after that the primary cause of their lower-earnings is because they choose to have kids and work less to spend more time with them (paid paternity leave, and heavily subsidised childcare exists here so no this isn't something they're forced to do, though I knowledge there are socio-cultural forces at work that do constrain or limit people's choices and sexism is one of them, but it goes both ways) and despite that they still control more consumer spending regardless, and while it's true there are male dominated industries in which women struggle there is real money and effort being put into addressing this; no such luck for men trying to enter female dominated industries.' Incidentally I've personally been bullied out of two female dominated industries, and if you think my heart bleeds for some college-going WASP who has to go into HR or become a PA instead of becoming an engineer (though I doubt this ever actually happens here) and make 80,000 a year instead of 120,000 you're sorely mistaken. They're all living lives of privilege beyond that of 95% of the planet's population and I really don't care to split hairs about which part of the top 5% they occupy. They should all count themselves lucky.

So most of this is not relevant to the world I live in in the slightest. To the extent it's relevant it's a byproduct of a culture I despise, want nothing to do with and do nothing to perpetuate.

i don't know what resource she's got ahold of, whether it's her body, or her "average" looks, or other people's desire for her that wasn't hers to begin with.

The resource is known as benevolent sexism.The cultural perception that women's bodies have a unique and special value which makes them commodifiable, the flip-side of the hostile sexism which produces most sexual exploitation and objectification. The hostile/benevolent dichotomy is the basic principle of how sexism and gender stereotyping works. But when all you have is your body it actually means something when society tells you it's worth nothing unless it's creating value through labour, while at the same time telling you you're not good enough to work. That doesn't mean the reverse is a walk in the park. I'm well aware of that. I listen to the opposite sex when they speak about their experiences, and I've spent plenty of time listening to, and reading about women's experience. I get that it's personally devaluing to have your sexuality viewed as the totality of your being. It's also devaluing for what you look like to be seen as totally irrelevant and to have your worth judged solely by way of your success and finances, to have your sexuality viewed as something toxic and threatening to the point where you actually have to pay money for a member of the opposite sex to even speak to you.

you're mad that this woman is not pretty enough in your eyes to be worthy of making a living...

You're either not reading what I'm writing or you're projecting. I never said anything even vaguely resembling this.

and you're ascribing her value to her physical characteristics like a _thing_.

See above. No, I'm not. And in case you haven't figured it out yet we're all things in our culture whose value is inherently dependant on the value we bring to, and what we can do for the people around us. If you think men are somehow exempt from this try talking to some homeless or disabled men, and if you think that I consider sex workers things why would I support decriminalisation? Why would I have dated one? At least, ironically, until she sexually assaulted me and then abused me for not liking it...

you're ignoring all the physical and emotional work it takes to make yourself presentable...

No, you're assuming I am on the basis of a gender stereotype. I happen to be a qualified make-up artist, brow stylist, lash extension artist, and hair stylist. I know exactly how much work it takes to make people look presentable.

and responsive and able to take care of the dudes who pay to fuck you, who for that hour or whatever think of you basically as a possession they can use.

I'm talking about an environment in which even full service sex work explicitly does not involve the renting or possession of bodies, in which - as with any other contractor - consent to perform a paid service can be withdrawn at any time (particularly if the client violates the contract of service) in which workers are valid sub-contractors protected by the Sex Discrimination Act (which explicitly forbids harassment; defined as any unwanted act a reasonable person would expect to cause humiliation, offence or intimidation); where there are usually bouncers present to toss anyone out who doesn't follow the rules, in which creeps end up on databases like this, and where sub-contractors doing out calls vet clients extensively prior to meeting them. You're talking about something completely different. I'm well aware of how horrible sex work can be. It's why I support decriminalisation.

it's a kind of effort that outside of your particular milieu

Another gender stereotype.

and at any rate it's work that you literally said you have never done and know nothing about.

As far as knowing about it goes I said the exact opposite to this.

and i don't want to make this about me

But you're going to anyway.

if you haven't been witness to that because of your luckier demographics then i'm glad for you but i don't know why you're making your very not-the-norm experiences into a general thing.

My not-the-norm experiences are a general thing for men in my position, and I'd love to know what you've bothered to learn about our experience. Nothing you've said about yours is news to me in the slightest. I really do commiserate, and if I could change it I would. I'd tell you more about mine but I can't be bothered because we're not communicating. You're mansplaining' things to a straw-man who doesn't actually exist.

 

[throwaway123]

but love is like a unicorn...doesnt exist...
i am not a worker but would love to try for the fun of it...and yes money...and before i ctb...

To me sex without love is not fun. It hurts.
Life without love hurts. I have to believe love exists. Otherwise life is pointles.

 

[Alchemist]

To me sex without love is not fun. It hurts.
Life without love hurts. I have to believe love exists. Otherwise life is pointles.

Life is pointless regardless of that.

Love is nothing special. It's just a evolutionary mechanism to promote the formation of family units.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Women's empowerment and liberation unfortunately destroys civilization.

The ruling elites want to eradicate whites but I won't go into the reasons.

This is wrong on so many levels, I'm not even sure where to start. But we had this discussion before and I'm not sure if I should even entertain your ideas again. I don't think I could reach you with any arguments if you make conclusions first and then reason your way backwards from that point, instead of building a conclusion based on evidence and rational thinking. I think these are very bad takes and actually extremely harmful but - yeah. You do you.

Anyway, to the question, asked in the first post: yes. I played with the idea to become a sex-worker, prostitute, porn-actress, cam-girl, something along these lines. But I never really found a way into the scene. I know large porn companies will exploit and scam the fuck out of you and if you try to build up your own thing, it takes many years to actually establish a presence somewhere. So, it's really hard. But I realize, as a transgender person, there is a huge market for my body. For my biology. For the way I look like. And I think I could take advantage of that and make some money. I am poor anyway and I don't care about my reputation. So when there is ever a moment where I feel mentally stable enough to work, I'll focuses on that, for sure.

 

[Rocksandsand]

This is wrong on so many levels, I'm not even sure where to start. But we had this discussion before and I'm not sure if I should even entertain your ideas again. I don't think I could reach you with any arguments if you make conclusions first and then reason your way backwards from that point, instead of building a conclusion based on evidence and rational thinking. I think these are very bad takes and actually extremely harmful but - yeah. You do you.

Anyway, to the question, asked in the first post: yes. I played with the idea to become a sex-worker, prostitute, porn-actress, cam-girl, something along these lines. But I never really found a way into the scene. I know large porn companies will exploit and scam the fuck out of you and if you try to build up your own thing, it takes many years to actually establish a presence somewhere. So, it's really hard. But I realize, as a transgender person, there is a huge market for my body. For my biology. For the way I look like. And I think I could take advantage of that and make some money. I am poor anyway and I don't care about my reputation. So when there is ever a moment where I feel mentally stable enough to work, I'll focuses on that, for sure.

I have a close friend who is transitioning (mtf) and it disappoints me seeing how fetishised her body and biology is. I can't imagine how hard it is for you.

 

[Final Escape]

I've known some sex-workers, dated a former sex-worker very briefly, and back when I was crazy about fitness and not eating I considered doing some myself (with other guys, it's a big industry where I live) when I was desperately hard up for cash but it was never practical. I have bad PTSD from being violently raped in my teens and I don't even like it when people I know touch me without permission. These days I could probably do it, but I'm not young or fit enough for it to be an option anymore.



I remember a study that showed about 98% of (female) sex workers had experienced some form of sexual assault. I know it was a US study, but it wouldn't surprise me if those numbers are fairly accurate. Every sex worker I've ever known, including super sex-positive advocates for sex workers, had been assaulted, sometimes repeatedly, either in their teens or as a child, and sexual assault is fairly common. So if there is a correlation between the two, if being sexually assaulted makes you more likely to become engaged in sex work, then it would stand to reason there are probably more sex workers than most people are aware of. Also just to be clear I'm not suggesting there is any direct causal relationship here, i.e you get raped and you instantly become a sex worker. If there is a correlation I would bet real money it has a to do with cultural reactions to sexual assault and it's impact on people's lifestyle. Which would also explain why fewer male victims turn to it since they're treated very differently, and don't have the same options when it comes to commodifying their sexuality. I mean if sex work is something that correlates with vulnerable demographics in general (and from my reading it absolutely does, like the trans community, homeless youths, etc) then I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that survivors of sexual violence (particularly those abused in early childhood or teens) are a vulnerable demographic, and that their experiences are similar in some respects.

There are probably some social factors too. I know for example in kink communities most young women find it very easy to commodify their sexuality. I mean if you're naturally submissive and want to explore that side of your sexuality you can either do it for free, or get paid $200 an hour for it. Kind of makes it a no-brainer what people will choose under those circumstances especially as the latter option is arguably safer.

It's ironic people say the push for gender equality causes these things. Like I see where they're coming from, but if we actually had real gender equality (i.e if we valued female and male sexuality equally in cultural terms) the entire sex industry would more or less disappear.

The sexual abuse at 10 years old and then also no father in the home, basically derailed my life. It didn't have to but our system doesn't care to acknowledge how serious the consequences it can be if u are sexually abused and grow up fatherless plus abusive single mom. I tried to get therapy but the government limits not only therapy and therapists but makes it out of reach for the poor. So what ends up happening to most victims of childhood trauma is fucked up lives because it's not addressed early enough. Pretty soon you are landing in jail, homeless, addiction, dependent on welfare, suicide, or just barely getting by in life.

 

[thomasdoyletad]

The sexual abuse at 10 years old and then also no father in the home, basically derailed my life. It didn't have to but our system doesn't care to acknowledge how serious the consequences it can be if u are sexually abused and grow up fatherless plus abusive single mom. I tried to get therapy but the government limits not only therapy and therapists but makes it out of reach for the poor. So what ends up happening to most victims of childhood trauma is fucked up lives because it's not addressed early enough. Pretty soon you are landing in jail, homeless, addiction, dependent on welfare, suicide, or just barely getting by in life.

I'm sorry to hear this. I know it's probably not much consolation but I totally understand where you're coming from and experienced similar stuff, and have seen this sort of thing happen to others. Wish I had some way to change this stuff.

 

[BeenDoneForSoLong]

Don't know if it counts but when I was strapped for cash earlier a few years ago I sold my used underwear to gay dudes... Was kind of fucked because I was barely an adult... But I did need the cash.

 

[Sever]

Seems like i have to try webcam. Owe shitload of money, have no fucking idea how to get it in a month. However I'm fucking ugly - have never done sports, fat, suck at taking any pictures and pictures of naked body too. Moreover I've never taken any nude photos cuz i was and still a bit paranoid about this shit being leaked. I have no webcam, only phone one, have no idea where can i find dumbass people who would be ready to pay for it. Camwhores, share your secrets please

 

[Taki]

I was a prostitute from the ages of 14-18. My mother died not knowing how her rent got paid.

How terrible that this happened to you. I'm sorry.

 

[azucaramargo]

The sexual abuse at 10 years old and then also no father in the home, basically derailed my life. It didn't have to but our system doesn't care to acknowledge how serious the consequences it can be if u are sexually abused and grow up fatherless plus abusive single mom. I tried to get therapy but the government limits not only therapy and therapists but makes it out of reach for the poor. So what ends up happening to most victims of childhood trauma is fucked up lives because it's not addressed early enough. Pretty soon you are landing in jail, homeless, addiction, dependent on welfare, suicide, or just barely getting by in life.

Excellent analysis of this cycle, FinalEscape.

 

[azucaramargo]

10 years ago I was close to offering my ass to old perverted homos.
I was sleeping on a staircase with my mother for few days and I told her of my plan. Next day my mother asked her ex for money to pay for a place. And he did.

My ass is thankfully still a virgin.

Wow! I did not realize you and your mom had endured homelessness. That's awful. When you say she approached her ex for money, did you mean your father? What a terribly difficult situation! I'm so sorry.
P. S. This post explains a lot of your views on prostitution being a viable -- nay admirable, in your book -- means of survival. I find your use of the term homo offensive, btw. This is SS, and we are accustomed to a greater standard of respect for everyone's humanity.

 

[ravergirl]

I'm a sex worker. I usually do exotic dancing, but covid shut that down, so I'm doing full time escorting now. I've done live fetish modeling in the past, too. I've even streetwalked a few times.