Captive of Mind
Memento mori
- Aug 11, 2020
- 409
-
Hey Guest,
If you would still like to donate, you still can. We have more than enough funds to cover operating expenses for quite a while, so don't worry about donating if you aren't able. If you want to donate something other than what is listed, you can contact RainAndSadness.
Bitcoin Address (BTC): 39deg9i6Zp1GdrwyKkqZU6rAbsEspvLBJt
Ethereum (ETH): 0xd799aF8E2e5cEd14cdb344e6D6A9f18011B79BE9
Monero (XMR): 49tuJbzxwVPUhhDjzz6H222Kh8baKe6rDEsXgE617DVS
DD8UKNaXvKNU8dEVRTAFH9Av8gKkn4jDzVGF25snJgNfUfKKNC8
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,636
I'm already a pretty nervous and paranoid person, and seeing these accounts lately (despite Stan's protocol not really being followed) is just making me panic and hesitant to even consider trying my SN anymore. It's not 100% their fault, and I appreciate people posting their experiences, but it's just an easy way for my brain to go into overdrive and ruin what seemed like such a wonderful method before...
CarbonMonoxide
Marejeo ni ngamani
- Oct 13, 2019
- 369
This is the key to the prolifers success. Most humans think suicidal people are inherently cowards, people who give up easily under pressure. That's why these threads seek to prey on fear.
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,636
And I'm just letting them scare me, assuming that's their intention... :/
And given the way the human mind works, all that needs to happen is that an initial association be made between sn and [insert something scary or undesirable], however random and unjustified it may seem.
It's like how commercials work, by tapping into people's basic desires and fears through emotive imagery and targeted use of language.
I'm not saying that the OP did this intentionally here, but the effect can be the same.
Last edited:
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,728
It's really challenging, this current trend, because I don't want to go on a witch hunt, but something is happening. It's close to, if not completely, impossible to know when a member is guilelessly doing something on their own, because they're impacted by post or a trend, or when it's for an agenda. Then the general membership gets stressed out over the things being posted, plus the stress of wondering who's okay and who's not. This forum is such an odd mix of genuine good and disturbing toxicity.
But yeah, the witch hunt issue. It's one thing to call out a thread or a post, but it's serious to accuse a person. Much easier when they're a troll, a predator, an overt pro-lifer, a scammer, or someone faking an influential position or specialist knowledge -- either they do something egregiously definitive one or two times, or enough actions pile up to be able to put it together and confidently accuse them, without having to worry about crushing their emotions and spirit, as we would a fellow member who has come here genuinely seeking support and maybe also community.
But yeah, the witch hunt issue. It's one thing to call out a thread or a post, but it's serious to accuse a person. Much easier when they're a troll, a predator, an overt pro-lifer, a scammer, or someone faking an influential position or specialist knowledge -- either they do something egregiously definitive one or two times, or enough actions pile up to be able to put it together and confidently accuse them, without having to worry about crushing their emotions and spirit, as we would a fellow member who has come here genuinely seeking support and maybe also community.
Last edited:
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,636
Exactly. Not that we're "responsible" for someone's feelings or actions, but our words can make what's an unbearable situation for the person even worse. And I wouldn't want someone to hurt themselves or do something rash because they left here feeling even more alone and hated. :/
Mm80
Enlightened
- May 15, 2019
- 1,604
Thank you GPE thorough as always. Is it just the consequence of a method becoming more popular do you think ?
CarbonMonoxide
Marejeo ni ngamani
- Oct 13, 2019
- 369
I agree but the opposite is true as well. I wouldn't want someone to hurt themselves by trying poor suicide methods after my post sowed seeds of doubt in a good method. For instance, a user planning to go via SN might give up and try otc drug overdose instead. This will fail and probably damage their internal organs in the process.
I'm all for supporting each other but I'm also all for correcting each other. Every user on ss has a responsibility to protect other users from misinformation. I'm not perfect. I've previously posted inaccurate information. I always backtrack or delete the post if necessary. If someone needs our shoulders to cry on, there are better ways than posting questionable tales of failed attempts.
Yes this a valid point.
Maybe it's a good idea, before 'calling out' a post for having an ulterior motive, to check a few things first and put it all together, like how long the poster has been on the site and go to their profile to browse their other recent activity and posts, to get more of a feel for whether they're genuine and vulnerable, or fake and agenda-driven (sometimes it can be easy to tell that they're a troll, scammer, pro-lifer etc as GPE'd said, so no need to over-analyse or use too fine a comb).
This was a thought of mine too
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,636
You're right. Especially about the importance of accuracy and your comment about ODing.
sagajin
Member
- Aug 13, 2020
- 63
all these scare tactics makes me wish they would tighten the dificulty to get in here. as it stands every one and theyr grandparent with malicious intend can pull up. make a bogus story. say how SN caused them to get attacked by killer bee's and there is little we can do to get rid of such obvious fake posts.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
I don't understand why someone would lie about SN this way. Sorry if I sound dumb. I've read every thread since I joined about SN. I feel like I have a good grasp of the ways it can work. I think everyone can find out enough information out there to make their own decision about SN.
Don't underestimate the ability of people to make rational decisions about what they read here.
Last edited:
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,728
I think you've seen my manipulation thread, haven't you? I posted a comment on there about how people can get victimized, and a lot of it has to do with being overly empathetic and ethical. True predators will use that to their advantage. Also knowing the covert tricks, and ultimately, trusting your gut -- if you felt an arrow in something someone said, there was an arrow. Doesn't mean they were consciously aware of it nor that they weren't, but it reveals something about them and is worth noticing and then paying attention to what future actions reveal about their character or intentions. That's why I've always limited my PM interactions, so I'm protected and so that I don't relax and let down my guard nor act out because it's behind a closed door. I'd prefer to interact on the open forum where there are witnesses, which also keeps me in check -- if I'm not willing to say it out in the open, then I won't say it. If I'm going to call someone out, I'd better be confident and not just bitching because I personally don't care for them.
I don't think so. We get hit from a lot of different angles, it's more noticeable with SN because it's the most popular method. Other methods have been hit lately as well, all at the same time, just like this weirdness that started before the last week of August. When I did that thread title analysis, I noticed that there are other areas where SN has been taking a hit since January, all of it fear-inducing. The heightened fear about vomiting and not having meto went from hardly ever being in a thread title in 2018 and 2019, and not at all in from April, to happening multiple times a month beginning in May -- and that's just thread titles, not how often it comes up in comments or chat. Same with the weirdness you commented about.
I love this, and I 100% agree. Personally, I think it's important not only to protect against misinformation, but predators of all kinds. I like how Seneca put it:
"Keep an eye on one man to avoid being hurt; on another, to avoid hurting him. Rejoice in the happiness of all, and sympathize with them in their misfortunes; remember what you should take upon yourself, and what you should guard against."
The challenge here because of the nature of the environment is keeping both eyes on the same person! And not taking too much upon oneself. As @BitterlyAlive said, we're not responsible for others' feelings. But we're responsible for our actions.
There was a member I called out a while back when it became clear they were posing as an authority about something (not Jean), and it slowly escalated in a disturbing way, targeting me and a mod, who had to step out and let other mods handle the conflict that kept going long after I completely disengaged. Awhile after being censored, the member starting posting threads about bullies being the cause of her ctb, and each one analyzed bullies and narcissists, and dropped clear references to me. They finally got banned, and I had to convince the mods to delete all six threads, not just the most egregious ones because they don't mass delete. I had no problem with being flamed, my consistent actions reveal my imperfect but conscientious character (e.g., like you appreciate correction and admit your error, I try to make a point to acknowledge when I become aware I've been in error). My concern was that a whole slew of this person's actions showed a tendency for revenge, and after they'd been banned, they could have ctb'd and blamed me and, perhaps the mod as well. Then loved ones and/or the media could have targeted both SS and me. I really appreciated that the mods understood that when I pointed it out and deleted the rest of the threads.
Last edited:
To annoy/scare people in order to elicit a reaction and create discord and chaos?
I get your point about not really understanding such a mindset, but it's like asking why there are online trolls. Because that's just how some people like to spend their time unfortunately.
It can also be part of a larger pro-life movement to undermine sites like this.
Last edited:
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,636
Mmm, I think I have read your thread. A lot of what you're saying sounds familiar. You're right again, and I totally get the PM thing. You gotta watch your back for sure.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,728
One of the best things I learned about covert or overt manipulation is that one may never learn the reason for it, and it's not the most important thing. What's most important is to recognize when someone is doing it and respond appropriately -- protect and, if possible, go no contact. And the other most important thing is to always honor a red flag -- don't discount it, even if you don't cognitively know the reason for it. The gut gets it before the cognitive part of the brain does. It's at a way more primitive level, and it's meant for self-protection and survival.
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Most people here are actively talking about their experiences or plans to ctb, or talking about their problems.
For some reason, for me, the red flags appear over this recurring suspicion of what others post.
For some reason, for me, the red flags appear over this recurring suspicion of what others post.
In that case, is it better to always say something so other users know how you feel, or not say anything and not even engage with the thread at all?
If you go for the former you can be accused of being 'insensitive', 'insulting' etc, as was the case with a thread a few days ago that got locked by a mod in the end.
What do you mean here exactly?
CarbonMonoxide
Marejeo ni ngamani
- Oct 13, 2019
- 369
I think my post actually proves that I think highly of the honest users on ss. We're smart adults who can make informed decisions. That's why I get annoyed when a post appears to insult our collective intelligence. That's what I meant, I'm not sure what you understood. Try reading my post again maybe?
Meditation guide
Always was, is, and always shall be.
- Jun 22, 2020
- 6,089
Why keep pointing out that others have ulterior motives? This is a theme here and it's tiresome. Ok we get it.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,728
First it's a personal choice in each situation. Second, for me, it's not just a matter of what I feel but an overall assessment of myself, of the situation, and of the person. If I sense real harm, I will speak up. Sometimes I'm firm and assertive, and sometimes there's teeth in what I say. I have to feel very pushed to add teeth, but I don't add fists. I don't go for a wound, I go for getting something to stop. I try extremely hard to not tear down the person themselves, such as ad hominems. I'm still refining, but I'm miles away from where I used to be. When I go against something or the someone who's doing it, it's for damn good reason, whether others are able or willing to recognize it or not. I have to be certain, and then I have to stand by it. When I think I may have been in error, I think hard about it, and if the person is still around and they are safe enough for me to do so, I will take ownership and admit my error and, if needed for reconciliation (which is not always wise), to make amends. But amends mean setting something right, so I do try to set right what I knocked over. If they're not safe or it's too late, I acknowledge it to myself, take ownership, and work to improve. Either way, I work to improve.
If I go for the latter as you said, and I am certain, then I can take the hits. There will almost always be hits for standing up, calling out, setting a boundary, or defending a boundary. Those hits are meant to get one to back down, even to cow down. Been there done that, not doing it anymore. I'm not going to shift or give up my hard-won values and self-respect so that someone will like me or accept me. I don't belong anywhere if I don't belong in myself. I may not fit in everywhere, but I belong.
Permanently disengage. Get as far away as possible, put up as many boundaries as possible so they have no direct access. If they make it clear that they do not agree to basic mutual respect, and do not agree to personal boundaries, then all access should be blocked to them and their acquaintances and lackeys. They only want to fight, even if only subtly. "Ain't nobody got time for that."
Last edited:
AlreadyGone
Taking it day by day
- Jan 11, 2020
- 917
It is because there are people who do not do their own research and believe everything they read. It is very similar to how people believe everything they see on Facebook; even if it is fake.
Oh lordy what is this fearmongering, for real now, what is happening?
We went from SN as one of the most reliable methods to now gangrenous body parts and drinking 'shots' of SN... WHY??!!
We went from SN as one of the most reliable methods to now gangrenous body parts and drinking 'shots' of SN... WHY??!!
Similar threads
Venting
Lost SN & Things Getting Worse
- lionetta12
- Suicide Discussion
Suicide Discussion
lionetta12
- onceremoved126
- Suicide Discussion
Suicide Discussion
Daryl72